The "Rapture"?

[PlainWord]

That is an interpretation with no valid evidence and you have no scriptures to back it up.

True, it is an interpretation, but I do have scriptural evidence which strongly points to Muhammad. It sure beats the idea of some that suggest it's the AntiChrist, although they are very much related. 7 years for 3 world wars??? That's really far fetched.

A major theme of Revelation is the "BEAST" and the false religion "Mystery Babylon" that the Beast supports. I won't go into a major study here but Rev 13 Beast from the Sea is in fact a rebirth of one of the 7 past heads of the Beast which are empires. The location given suggests that the head which was mortal wounded but lives is the Ottoman Empire. The religion supported by this head is of course Islam. Islam has roots all the way back to historical Babylon. All previous religions of the previous 6 heads were all related in that they worshiped false gods which included sun and star worship. Many don't realize the significance of moon worship in Islam but it's there, big time. Their symbol is the Crescent Moon. They fall down and face Mecca where the "Image Fallen from the Sky" (the Kaaba Stone is located) 5 times a day based on the position of the sun.

The 4th seal clearly is Islam. The green horse (Pale is an incorrect translation for Chloros) Green is the official color of Islam. Green represents "Paradise" in Islam. Those who kill in the name of Allah and are killed in the process think they are going to Paradise but spiritual Death and Hades follows them. Islam makes up 1/4 of the world. Islam is the largest single religion (and a false one) in the world. Islam surrounds Israel in all Land Directions. Again, I don't have time to fully explain here.

The 5th seal shows those murdered by Islam in heaven begging for revenge. The 3rd seal represents the wealth inequality of the Gulf State kings compared to their citizens. There are 57 predominantly Muslim nations in the world, their combined GDP doesn't even equal Germany even though they make up 1/4 of the world's population.

This would make the red horse the Ottoman Empire whose official color was red and who killed 50 million Christians and dominated their part of the world from 1299 to 1922. So if we follow the theme, the white horse would be Muhammad. He allegedly rode Barraq, a white donkey, horse-like creature from Mecca to Jerusalem and then to heaven. He wore white. He conquered in the name of his new faith. He is the false prophet of Islam.

If you have a better idea, I'd love to hear it.

 

[Ahwatukee]

What 7 year contract? Where do you get that from???

Here's the answer to your question:

"He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven'.

Covenant: league, treaty, contract, etc.

Of course we aren't appointed to God's Wrath, this is more than clear. But not being appointed and being raptured off the planet are completely different things. God's Wrath is against Gog.

God's wrath will be against all the inhabitants of the earth who have rejected his Son and continue to live according to the sinful nature. Anyone who is here on earth will be exposed to it, which is why the church must be gathered from off the earth according to the Lord's promise, that he would keep us out of "Ek" the hour of trial that is going to come upon all those who dwell upon the face of the whole earth.


"See, the day of the Lord is coming --a cruel day, with wrath and fierce anger—to make the land desolate and destroy the sinners within it. The stars of heaven and their constellations will not show their light. The rising sun will be darkened and the moon will not give its light. 11I will punish the world for its evil, the wicked for their sins. I will put an end to the arrogance of the haughty and will humble the pride of the ruthless. 12I will make people scarcer than pure gold, more rare than the gold of Ophir. 13Therefore I will make the heavens tremble; and the earth will shake from its place at the wrath of the Lord Almighty in the day of his burning anger." (Isa.13:9-13)

"I will sweep away everything from the face of the earth, declares the Lord. I will sweep away both man and beast; I will sweep away the birds in the sky and the fish in the sea—and the idols that cause the wicked to stumble. When I destroy all mankind on the face of the earth" (Zeph.1-3)

As you can see from just the scripture above, the wrath of God that is coming will be upon all who are upon the earth during that the time of his wrath. Still think that his wrath is only aimed at just Gog? Gog and Magog are specific to that event of destruction that Ezk.38 and 39 are describing. God's wrath will be upon those mentioned below as well:

"The rest of mankind, who were not killed by these plagues, did not repent of the works of their hands nor give up worshiping demons and idols of gold and silver and bronze and stone and wood, which cannot see or hear or walk, nor did they repent of their murders or their sorceries or their sexual immorality or their thefts."

God's wrath is not just against Gog PlainTruth.

 

[Nikki84]

Do you trust God provides? Today God provides for His children. Why would it be different during the tribulation and wrath? Please read first and second Peter about suffering. God never said it would be easy

 

[Ahwatukee]

Do you trust God provides? Today God provides for His children. Why would it be different during the tribulation and wrath? Please read first and second Peter about suffering. God never said it would be easy

Again, your question above demonstrates that you do not understand the severity of God's coming wrath. If you did you would not be asking that question.

Please read first and second Peter about suffering. God never said it would be easy

1st and 2nd Peter are describing trials and tribulations that all believer's go through which comes from the wicked men of the word with the powers of darkness orchestrating in the background. What is coming however, is not from the hands of men, but is wrath that will be poured out directly from God. It will be an unprecedented time that the world has not experienced. The problem again is, not recognizing the difference between the common persecution that comes at the hands of mankind, opposed to God's coming wrath. Until you and others understand the difference between the two and the severity of that wrath, you will continue to make these erroneous claims.

 

[PlainWord]

Look everyone. It is Islamic Nations which predominantly make up the nations from the North (of Israel) which attack her. Ezek 38 calls them "Gog." The peoples of these nations have been at odds with Israel for 4,000 years. They follow a false religion with a false prophet and false god. They behead Christians and Jews (God's people). Romans never did that. Romans crucified foreigner criminals.

The Great Tribulation is the assault on Israel. This location is clear by Jesus telling them to get out of Judea. The GT is not the Wrath of God. This is clear from many passages. All this thinking that we have to be raptured off the planet before the GT to escape God's wrath is just wrong logic. The GT is regional. The Bible is written Israel-centric.

The focus has been and always will be Israel. We non-Jewish Christians are grafted in to their Jewish Natural Olive Tree. We did not replace Israel as some suggest. I hope this can help bless some of you that still have eyes to see and ears to hear.

 

[Nikki84]

Again, your question above demonstrates that you do not understand the severity of God's coming wrath. If you did you would not be asking that question.



1st and 2nd Peter are describing trials and tribulations that all believer's go through which comes from the wicked men of the word with the powers of darkness orchestrating in the background. What is coming however, is not from the hands of men, but is wrath that will be poured out directly from God. It will be an unprecedented time that the world has not experienced. The problem again is, not recognizing the difference between the common persecution that comes at the hands of mankind, opposed to God's coming wrath. Until you and others understand the difference between the two and the severity of that wrath, you will continue to make these erroneous claims.

I agree to disagree. I believe God will provide for His children . I guess you don't because you erroneusly think you're going to fly away

 

[Ahwatukee]

You have Jesus coming 3 times. That is not scripture.

I have Jesus meeting the church in the air to take them back to the Father's house and I have Jesus physically returning to the earth to end the age and to establish his millennial kingdom after his wrath has been poured out. When Jesus gathers the church, he does not return to the earth, but only meets the church in the air and gathers us to fulfill his promise to take us back to the Father's house to those rooms that he went to prepare for us. I don't know where you got the idea that I have him coming back three times. The Lord returns physically and visually once and that shortly after the 7th bowl has been poured out.

 

[Chuckt]

I agree to disagree. I believe God will provide for His children . I guess you don't because you erroneusly think you're going to fly away

At least a fifth of the people on the earth are going to die in the Great Tribulation. God has to take them out to protect them.

 

[Ahwatukee]

I agree to disagree. I believe God will provide for His children . I guess you don't because you erroneusly think you're going to fly away

What do you think the words "caught up" means Nikki? The word to describe this is the Greek "Harpazo" which is defined as properly, to seize by force; snatch up, suddenly and decisively. To give you and idea, when the scripture states that Paul was "caught up" to the third heaven, the same word "Harpazo" is used. The same word is used when it is stated that the male child is "snatched up" to God and his throne. Here in 1 Thes.4:17, the same word is being used to describe the church being "caught up." So, I don't know why you would not believe that the living in Christ are not going to be caught up to meet the Lord in the air, especially when that is exactly what the scripture says? People usually use the words "fly away" or "secret coming" or "escape pod" theology in order to discredit it. However, the scripture is very clear and I would hope God would open yours and everyone else's eyes to understand this truth.

 

[Ahwatukee]

At least a fifth of the people on the earth are going to die in the Great Tribulation. God has to take them out to protect them.

Hi Chuckt,

I would add to that and say, that with just the 4th seal (a fourth) and the 6th trumpet (a third), with just these two alone and based on 7 billion people, it would equal approx. 4.5 billion fatalities and that is not counting the trumpets 1,2 and 3 nor the fatalities resulting from the seven bowl judgments. By my guesstimation, there will be less than 10% of the population left on the earth by the time that Jesus returns to end the age and that being conservative. This would fit with what Jesus said "Except those days were shortened, no one would be left alive."

 

[Chuckt]

Hi Chuckt,

I would add to that and say, that with just the 4th seal (a fourth) and the 6th trumpet (a third), with just these two alone and based on 7 billion people, it would equal approx. 4.5 billion fatalities and that is not counting the trumpets 1,2 and 3 nor the fatalities resulting from the seven bowl judgments. By my guesstimation, there will be less than 10% of the population left on the earth by the time that Jesus returns to end the age and that being conservative. This would fit with what Jesus said "Except those days were shortened, no one would be left alive."

I agree with you. I haven't taken the time to do all of the math required. I must do more.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Look everyone. It is Islamic Nations which predominantly make up the nations from the North (of Israel) which attack her. Ezek 38 calls them "Gog." The peoples of these nations have been at odds with Israel for 4,000 years. They follow a false religion with a false prophet and false god. They behead Christians and Jews (God's people). Romans never did that. Romans crucified foreigner criminals.

The Great Tribulation is the assault on Israel. This location is clear by Jesus telling them to get out of Judea. The GT is not the Wrath of God. This is clear from many passages. All this thinking that we have to be raptured off the planet before the GT to escape God's wrath is just wrong logic. The GT is regional. The Bible is written Israel-centric.

The focus has been and always will be Israel. We non-Jewish Christians are grafted in to their Jewish Natural Olive Tree. We did not replace Israel as some suggest. I hope this can help bless some of you that still have eyes to see and ears to hear.

Then the beast was permitted to wage war against the saints and conquer them, and he was given authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation. 8And all who dwell on the earth will worship the beast—all whose names have not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain.

Well, though the beast will stand in in the Jewish temple proclaiming himself to be God and will have set up that abomination in the holy place, how can you say that it is restricted to Israel, when according to the scripture above, the beast will be given authority over "every tribe and people and tongue and nation." How do you not understand that this means everyone on the planet? Also, I have provided the information regarding Dan.2:31-46 regarding Nebuchadnezzar's statue which represents all human governments where Jesus falls on the feet of that statue smashing it to pieces, which represents the end of all human government and you haven't responded to that. That information is also and especially relevant to end-time events. Revelation is not just about Israel, but about the entire planet, which obviously does center around Israel, but is not restricted to.

 

[Ahwatukee]

I agree with you. I haven't taken the time to do all of the math required. I must do more.

God bless you! It is just comforting to know that someone else understands the truth of God's plan.

 

[Chuckt]

Do you trust God provides? Today God provides for His children. Why would it be different during the tribulation and wrath? Please read first and second Peter about suffering. God never said it would be easy

How do you think you will live if you can't buy or sell if you don't take the Mar of the beast? They will behead you and there is no place you can hide because of infrared cameras.

 

[Chuckt]

Do you trust God provides? Today God provides for His children. Why would it be different during the tribulation and wrath? Please read first and second Peter about suffering. God never said it would be easy

How do you think you will live if you can't buy or sell if you don't take the mark of the beast? They will behead you and there is no place you can hide because of infrared cameras.

 

[popeye]

I agree to disagree. I believe God will provide for His children . I guess you don't because you erroneusly think you're going to fly away

You are obsessed with following a handful of believers around and posting anti pretrib sentences.

Do you realize that a troll never adds anything to the discussion?

 

[DP]

For all the pre-trib rapture deniers, check this short study. Apostasy Now Topic - Pre-Trib Rapture: Answer to "one shall be taken, the other left"

Contrived just to make excuse for a false pre-trib rapture.

In Matt.24 my Lord Jesus was warning of the same event as in Luke 17. A play in the Greek on the word taken doesn't work, since in Jesus' answer to His disciples of where those taken would be taken to was about a dead carcase to where the vultures are gathered. The whole meaning is to be taken in deception by the coming Antichrist and his servants during the tribulation instead of staying faithful waiting on Jesus to come later.

 

[DP]

How do you think you will live if you can't buy or sell if you don't take the mark of the beast? They will behead you and there is no place you can hide because of infrared cameras.

Keep hearing this fear mongering argument with no substance. Was Daniel and his brethren taken care of during their captivity to the king of Babylon? Yes. Daniel was even given to eat the king's meat and wine, but refused and instead asked for pulse and water. Only towards the end did Daniel's trial come for refusing to bow in worship to the golden image of the king of Babylon.

Some of us will be put to death, but not all.

 

[Chuckt]

Keep hearing this fear mongering argument with no substance. Was Daniel and his brethren taken care of during their captivity to the king of Babylon? Yes. Daniel was even given to eat the king's meat and wine, but refused and instead asked for pulse and water. Only towards the end did Daniel's trial come for refusing to bow in worship to the golden image of the king of Babylon.

Some of us will be put to death, but not all.

Except the Anti-Christ will be in charge and given authority.
I believe he will give away the Christian's stuff to gain power because we won't be here.
If Christians were here, they would report us for a reward. Once you came out of hiding to buy or sell, someone would report you and have you arrested.

The beast was given authority to do whatever he wanted:


Revelation 13:5 The beast was given a mouth to utter proud words and blasphemies and to exercise its authority for forty-two months.

New Living Translation
Then the beast was allowed to speak great blasphemies against God. And he was given authority to do whatever he wanted for forty-two months.

So if he wants to kill Christians then that is his authority. Can you really argue this?

 

[presidente]

When the church is gone and you see a seven year contract being made with Israel, then realize that you are in now in the time period when God's wrath will poured out and that you were wrong about the teaching that you adopted regarding the Lord's appearing to remove the church.

So do you believe people are saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, or by faith in pre-trib rapture teachings? Why would someone have to believe in your eschatology to be raptured?

Pre-trib = Blessed hope and comfort

Post-trib = No blessed hope and no comfort, but only exposure to the seals, trumpet and bowl judgments which are the wrath of God.

The blessed hope is the hope of the return of Christ and the redemption of our bodies, not hope to escape persecution and tribulation in this age.