THE RAPTURE
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Awe AWH, you really do not read the Word very carefully, do you? It is you who misapply, because you either misread or misquote. Let's take this error you just made and unpack it.
Jesus never used the word, "temple," relative to the A of D, He only referred to it as "holy place as spoken of by Daniel..." Daniel never uses the word, "temple" either does he? Why not? Was Daniel and was Jesus unfamiliar with the word "temple?" Did they not know how to utter the word "temple?" That should be a strong clue for one who actually studies and leaves their own "truths" at the door.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]And forces shall be mustered by him, and they shall defile the sanctuary fortress; then they shall take away the daily sacrifices, and place there the abomination of desolation.
IT IS THE FORTRESS OF THE SANCTUARY, not the sanctuary itself. What is the holiest place in Israel today where Jews go to pray (i.e. sacrifice)?
Let's look at your next error:
Yes, the covenant of His blood is throughout the church period but that isn't what the text says He was doing, is it?
Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; But in the middle of the week...
He is CONFIRMING IT or telling everyone about the new covenant He was about to make. He was supposed to confirm it for a full 7 years (1 week) but they cut Him off. The confirming of the new covenant is verified by Paul. This is why we let the Bible interpret itself.
And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ...
For you temple lovers out there, this passage tells us that the old temple worship under the LAW cannot annul or cancel the new covenant.
Wrong again!! This from Jesus own mouth. You don't have to listen to me, but you better listen to Him:
For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
HE tells you who He made the covenant with.
Listen, I know you guys love your Dan 9 lost week and so badly want to add a 2000+ year gap so that you can have your 7 year Great Tribulation with all its seals, trumpets and bowls, but that isn't the teaching of Dan 9. Dan 9 is over. It was a continual 70 weeks with everything on the list of things for his people to accomplish having been accomplished by the time we get to the Cross.
You can invent a 7 year GT period and ignore the time Daniel gives for it in Dan 12 if you want to. That's fine, revel in your dreams as you do. But the 70 weeks were for Daniel's people and city. It was NOT for the rest of the world!!!
The truths I share with you are so completely foreign to the many fabrications you have made that I don't expect you to get it now. But when you see the Wailing Wall defiled and the prayers cease, maybe you will start to listen. Then when you see the Abomination of Desolation set up at the Wailing Wall and all out war begin in Israel, then your knowledge will increase and you will start running around. On that day, think of me.
Jesus never used the word, "temple," relative to the A of D, He only referred to it as "holy place as spoken of by Daniel..." Daniel never uses the word, "temple" either does he? Why not? Was Daniel and was Jesus unfamiliar with the word "temple?" Did they not know how to utter the word "temple?" That should be a strong clue for one who actually studies and leaves their own "truths" at the door.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]And forces shall be mustered by him, and they shall defile the sanctuary fortress; then they shall take away the daily sacrifices, and place there the abomination of desolation.
IT IS THE FORTRESS OF THE SANCTUARY, not the sanctuary itself. What is the holiest place in Israel today where Jews go to pray (i.e. sacrifice)?
Let's look at your next error:
Yes, the covenant of His blood is throughout the church period but that isn't what the text says He was doing, is it?
Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; But in the middle of the week...
He is CONFIRMING IT or telling everyone about the new covenant He was about to make. He was supposed to confirm it for a full 7 years (1 week) but they cut Him off. The confirming of the new covenant is verified by Paul. This is why we let the Bible interpret itself.
And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ...
For you temple lovers out there, this passage tells us that the old temple worship under the LAW cannot annul or cancel the new covenant.
Wrong again!! This from Jesus own mouth. You don't have to listen to me, but you better listen to Him:
For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
HE tells you who He made the covenant with.
Listen, I know you guys love your Dan 9 lost week and so badly want to add a 2000+ year gap so that you can have your 7 year Great Tribulation with all its seals, trumpets and bowls, but that isn't the teaching of Dan 9. Dan 9 is over. It was a continual 70 weeks with everything on the list of things for his people to accomplish having been accomplished by the time we get to the Cross.
You can invent a 7 year GT period and ignore the time Daniel gives for it in Dan 12 if you want to. That's fine, revel in your dreams as you do. But the 70 weeks were for Daniel's people and city. It was NOT for the rest of the world!!!
The truths I share with you are so completely foreign to the many fabrications you have made that I don't expect you to get it now. But when you see the Wailing Wall defiled and the prayers cease, maybe you will start to listen. Then when you see the Abomination of Desolation set up at the Wailing Wall and all out war begin in Israel, then your knowledge will increase and you will start running around. On that day, think of me.
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I explained this before. Christ is reigning right now in heaven. Dan 7 teaches that when Christ ascended to heaven He was taken before the Father and given a crown and a Kingdom that will last forever. This dominion began back then and continues to this day. We alive on earth who are saved have entered the kingdom. This is why John teaches that we are not of this world and this is why the world hates us. We belong to heaven just as those who have died. ONE BIG HAPPY FAMILY whether alive on earth or alive in heaven.
In Rev 20, John saw SOULS in HEAVEN reigning with Christ. Where do we find souls outside of their bodies, in heaven or on earth?
My dear friend Gary (who I respect a lot) sees two resurrections, one for the just, the other for the unjust. I considered his view as it relates to Rev 20 but at the end of the day, had to reject it. Rev 20 is telling us that those who die in Christ live and reign with Him immediately in Heaven. But the rest of those who die (unsaved) they don't get to live and reign in heaven. They don't get to reign at all. Rather they will not "live" again until the thousand years are finished.
When the unsaved do get to live again (resurrection of the unjust) they are judged then face the second death.
I do believe there will be reigning on earth also in the next earth age as this is taught in Rev 5 but I see this as after the 1,000 years.
In Rev 20, John saw SOULS in HEAVEN reigning with Christ. Where do we find souls outside of their bodies, in heaven or on earth?
My dear friend Gary (who I respect a lot) sees two resurrections, one for the just, the other for the unjust. I considered his view as it relates to Rev 20 but at the end of the day, had to reject it. Rev 20 is telling us that those who die in Christ live and reign with Him immediately in Heaven. But the rest of those who die (unsaved) they don't get to live and reign in heaven. They don't get to reign at all. Rather they will not "live" again until the thousand years are finished.
When the unsaved do get to live again (resurrection of the unjust) they are judged then face the second death.
I do believe there will be reigning on earth also in the next earth age as this is taught in Rev 5 but I see this as after the 1,000 years.
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[SUP]24 [/SUP]“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.
The above statement can only be true if it is spiritual life. The moment we accept Christ and repent of our sins we go from spiritual death to spiritual life. As Paul teaches, there is spiritual life and there is literal life. I hope Quasar understands at least this much of the spiritual.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live.
The above happened back then in 27-33 AD, see where it says "and now is?" For them, this was the first resurrection, because they died before Christ but had to wait for the Cross. For us, we take part in the first resurrection immediately upon accepting Him.
After Christ died on the Cross He went down to Hades and ministered to the dead. Those who heard His voice were saved and their souls were freed from the captivity of Hades and they immediately went to Heaven.
Now we move ahead to the Second Coming. No judgment happened yet.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man. [SUP]28 [/SUP]Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice [SUP]29 [/SUP]and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.
See where it says, "the hour is coming?" This is future. This is the second resurrection. EVERYONE takes part in the second resurrection both the just and unjust. But only those who took part in the first resurrection avoid the second death. Make sense?
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One more thing. This is going to cause Quasar, Popeye and AHW to freak out and start calling me a whole bunch of names.
Matthew 16:28
“Assuredly, I say to you, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.”
This does not apply to the rapture or second coming. It applied to His resurrection. We are to take the "some standing here" literally. That should make Quasar happy. SALVATION began at the Cross. It was the moment the OT prophets kept talking about. Until the Cross, there was no path to Heaven.
The Kingdom of God comes immediately upon "being saved" as John teaches:
Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
We (those of us saved) are in the KINGDOM OF GOD right now along with those who went to heaven before us. We are not of this world. If we aren't of this world, we have to be "of heaven."
Matthew 16:28
“Assuredly, I say to you, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.”
This does not apply to the rapture or second coming. It applied to His resurrection. We are to take the "some standing here" literally. That should make Quasar happy. SALVATION began at the Cross. It was the moment the OT prophets kept talking about. Until the Cross, there was no path to Heaven.
The Kingdom of God comes immediately upon "being saved" as John teaches:
Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
We (those of us saved) are in the KINGDOM OF GOD right now along with those who went to heaven before us. We are not of this world. If we aren't of this world, we have to be "of heaven."
Once again you are s easily refuted. The first resurrection in Rev.20:4, is of the tribulation martyrs/saints, who will be brought to the Lord by the 144,000 Israelite evangelists, during the tribulation, as recorded in Rev7:1-17. They ae from those who are left behind when the Church is raptured/caught up, to be with the Lord forever, recorded in 1 Thess.4:17. However, the Church is in heven with Jesus during the tribulation, as recorded in Rev19:7-8, for the mjarriage of the Bride/Church to the Lamb/Jesus. From where Jesus returns in His second coming to the earth, recorded in Rev.19:14. The complete text is in Rev.19:11-21. Confirming Zech.14:4-5 and Jude
The tribulation martyrs/saints will be made priests of God and of Christ and reign with Him for 1,000 years, on earth, recorded in Ref.20:6, fulfilling Mt.6:10. Where He will reign on the throne of David, according to Acts 2:30 and 15:16, in the restored kingdom of Israel, fulfilling Acts 1:6. As well as building the new temple of God, according to Zech.6:12-13, described in Ez.40-47.
The Church age ends when it is caught up t Jesus in the air, in 1 Thess,4:17, confirming Jn.14:2-3, 28, Accrodi,gly, the tribulation martyrs/saints DO NOT belong to he Church.
Satan will be throne into the Abyss, during the same 1.000 year reign of Christ, so he will not be affecting Jesus ministry on earth over that period of time.
The second resurrection will take place 1,000 years later, when Jesus 1,000 year reign on earth has ended, according to Rev.20:5, at the great white throne judgment, recorded in Rev.20:11-15. Many will be saved over the 1,000 year reign of Christ. So the second resurrection will consist of both he righteous as well as the condemned, according to verse 15.
The Scriptures refute you, PlainWord!
Quasar92
You're so easy to refute, PlainWord! The Transfiguration of Jesus in Mt.16:28-17:5 has nothing whatever to do with either the rapture of the Church or the resurrection. But rather, His transfiguration of when He comes into His kingdom. Jesus kingdom DOES NOT exist now! It will not come into existence until AFTER the rapture/caught up, of the Church, recorded in Jn.14:2-3, 28; 1 Thess.4:16-17 and 2 Thess.2:3 and 7-8. Followed immediately by the seven year tribulation, Jesus second coming to the earth WITH His Church, according to Rev.19:11-21, ending the tribulation. Throwing Stan in he Abyss and administering to the first resurrection, THEN Jesus kingdom on earth will begin, fulfilling Mt.6:10 [In the context of verses 9-13] you are allegedly still praying for to this day!
Quasar92
I realize your eyes aren't as young as they once were. But did I say anything about the Transfiguration? Jesus made the comment then but He wasn't telling them that the Kingdom came at the Transfiguration, He is telling them it will come after the Cross.
This comment shows your true ignorance of the greater spiritual concepts of the Word:
Jesus kingdom by all means exists now. Maybe you aren't in it if you don't see it. That is between you and the Lord.
for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.
But if I cast out demons with the finger of God, surely the kingdom of God has come upon you.
“The law and the prophets were until John. Since that time the kingdom of God has been preached, and everyone is pressing into it.
Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, “The kingdom of God does not come with observation; nor will they say, ‘See here!’ or ‘See there!’ For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you.”
Assuredly, I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God as a little child will by no means enter it.”
But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, surely the kingdom of God has come upon you.
Jesus said to them, “Assuredly, I say to you that tax collectors and harlots enter the kingdom of God before you.
“Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to a nation bearing the fruits of it.
The Kingdom of God through Jesus comes to those of us alive when we are saved. It came to those who were alive in the days of Christ after the Cross and after His resurrection. All your degrees and time spent and you still do not understand this great mystery of God.
News flash. Christians are being beheaded RIGHT NOW as we speak. They are being added to the souls in heaven who were also beheaded before them. These souls come out of "great tribulation," they do NOT come out of "THE GREAT TRIBULATION" as that applies to Israel.
ISLAM has been beheading Christians since the 700s. ISLAM IS THE BEAST CARRYING THE FALSE RELIGION. The Qur'an teaches them to behead infidels. I recently met with and had lunch with an Indian missionary whose mission is to witness to Muslims in India. He agrees with me that ISLAM is MYSTERY BABYLON.
Those souls in heaven in Rev 20:4 are there now and have been living and reigning with Christ starting in 632 AD and continues to this day as their numbers are rapidly increasing.
ISLAM has been beheading Christians since the 700s. ISLAM IS THE BEAST CARRYING THE FALSE RELIGION. The Qur'an teaches them to behead infidels. I recently met with and had lunch with an Indian missionary whose mission is to witness to Muslims in India. He agrees with me that ISLAM is MYSTERY BABYLON.
Those souls in heaven in Rev 20:4 are there now and have been living and reigning with Christ starting in 632 AD and continues to this day as their numbers are rapidly increasing.
This story came from my new missionary friend to the Muslims. It just happened within the past week in Saudi Arabia. GOD IS STILL IN CHARGE.
Muslim Terrorists Surround Bus With 50 Christian Converts From Islam And Prepare To Murder Them All, Suddenly Massive Dust Storm Surrounds Them And The Christians Are Able To Escape
by Andrew Bieszad on October 8, 2016 in Featured
Coincidence? You be the judge. Personally, this was a miracle from God after their baptism, allowing these newly baptized safe passage in this life to live anew as Christians having passed from their old life as Muslims:
Muslim Terrorists Surround Bus With 50 Christian Converts From Islam And Prepare To Murder Them All, Suddenly Massive Dust Storm Surrounds Them And The Christians Are Able To Escape
by Andrew Bieszad on October 8, 2016 in Featured
Coincidence? You be the judge. Personally, this was a miracle from God after their baptism, allowing these newly baptized safe passage in this life to live anew as Christians having passed from their old life as Muslims:
One of the new believers named Rizwan said the group was about to conclude a mass baptism for 50 Islamic converts to Christianity when Islamist militants surrounded their bus and began firing shots.
“About 50 people including baptism candidates were attending the service. We all went by a bus. After the baptism service and prayers, we all entered the bus to return back in our house church for the worship service and the Lord’s Supper. The bus was moved. Suddenly some militants reached behind us by three or more cars and started shooting with guns toward us,” Rizwan said.
He said they were terrified and were already bracing themselves for the worst when divine intervention took place. As their bus was speeding away pursued by the militants, the new converts and their leaders were surprised to see wind picking up and dust suddenly began to swirl around them.
“Suddenly we saw a giant dust storm formed behind our bus. At first we all afraid of seeing the dust storm. We thought we may not be able to go beyond and will be held by the militants. But praise the Lord! Praise the Lord again and again! We all felt that the Lord Jesus Christ appeared upon the dust storm as a Mighty and Wonderful Man showing His protecting and lovely hands toward us with a sweet smile,” Rizwan said. “Jesus saved us. He Himself blocked the road [to stop the] militants in the form of a dust storm.” (source)
“About 50 people including baptism candidates were attending the service. We all went by a bus. After the baptism service and prayers, we all entered the bus to return back in our house church for the worship service and the Lord’s Supper. The bus was moved. Suddenly some militants reached behind us by three or more cars and started shooting with guns toward us,” Rizwan said.
He said they were terrified and were already bracing themselves for the worst when divine intervention took place. As their bus was speeding away pursued by the militants, the new converts and their leaders were surprised to see wind picking up and dust suddenly began to swirl around them.
“Suddenly we saw a giant dust storm formed behind our bus. At first we all afraid of seeing the dust storm. We thought we may not be able to go beyond and will be held by the militants. But praise the Lord! Praise the Lord again and again! We all felt that the Lord Jesus Christ appeared upon the dust storm as a Mighty and Wonderful Man showing His protecting and lovely hands toward us with a sweet smile,” Rizwan said. “Jesus saved us. He Himself blocked the road [to stop the] militants in the form of a dust storm.” (source)
Reference is made to remarks you made in your post 1071 about Mt.16:28. Fror your edification, this is what Mt.16:28 is all about:
(28) There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death . . .—The immediate sequence of the vision of the Son of Man transfigured from the low estate in which He then lived and moved, into the “excellent glory” which met the gaze of the three disciples, has led not a few interpreters to see in that vision the fulfilment of this prediction. A closer scrutiny of the words must, however, lead us to set aside that interpretation, except so far as the Transfiguration bore witness to what had till then been the latent possibilities of His greatness. To speak of something that was to take place within six days as to occur before some of those who heard the words should taste of death (comp. John 8:52, Hebrews 2:9, for the form of the expression) would hardly have been natural; nor does the vision, as such, satisfy the meaning of the words “coming in His kingdom.”
The solution of the problem is to be found in the great prophecy of Matthew 24. In a sense which was real, though partial, the judgment which fell upon the Jewish Church, the destruction of the Holy City and the Temple, the onward march of the Church of Christ, was as the coming of the Son of Man in His kingdom. His people felt that He was not far off from every one of them. He had come to them in “spirit and in power,” and that advent was at once the earnest and the foreshadowing of the “great far-off event,” the day and hour of which were hidden from the angels of God, and even from the Son of Man Himself (Mark 13:32).
The words find their parallel in those that declared that “This generation shall not pass away till all be fulfilled” (Matthew 24:34). That such words should have been recorded and published by the Evangelists is a proof either that they accepted that interpretation, if they wrote after the destruction of Jerusalem, or, if we assume that they were led by them to look for the “end of all things” as near at hand, that they wrote before the generation of those who then stood by had passed away; and so the very difficulty that has perplexed men becomes a proof of the early date of the three Gospels that contain the record.
Quasar92
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G
I would like to remind all of you that the phrase "The Great Tribulation" is not actually used in the Bible; rather, it is a label that we apply to an event. ( [ in the sense of ] "a notable 'happening' occurring over a passage of time" )
What each of us "assigns" to the phrase obviously may be different.
I personally define it strictly according to what Jesus Himself says in this verse:
Matthew 24:
[SUP]21[/SUP] For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
To me --- if we talk about [ The ] Great Tribulation --- we are talking about the "great tribulation" that Jesus refers to in this verse.
There are three verses in scripture that use the phrase "great tribulation" - the one above and these two :
Revelation 2:
[SUP]22[/SUP] Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.
Revelation 7:
[SUP]14[/SUP] And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
How do you define ' [ The ] Great Tribulation ' ?
What each of us "assigns" to the phrase obviously may be different.
I personally define it strictly according to what Jesus Himself says in this verse:
Matthew 24:
[SUP]21[/SUP] For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
To me --- if we talk about [ The ] Great Tribulation --- we are talking about the "great tribulation" that Jesus refers to in this verse.
There are three verses in scripture that use the phrase "great tribulation" - the one above and these two :
Revelation 2:
[SUP]22[/SUP] Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.
Revelation 7:
[SUP]14[/SUP] And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
How do you define ' [ The ] Great Tribulation ' ?
Isa 40:17 All nations before him are as nothing; and they are counted to him less than nothing, and vanity.
2Co 12:11 I am become a fool in glorying; ye have compelled me: for I ought to have been commended of you: for in nothing am I behind the very chiefest apostles, though I be nothing.
Gal 6:3 For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself.
Don't you get it man,we are nothing anyway,less than nothing,even if we love.But I joke for that is only illustrating the point that God is so much greater than us,that we cannot even compare to His greatness.
2Co 12:11 I am become a fool in glorying; ye have compelled me: for I ought to have been commended of you: for in nothing am I behind the very chiefest apostles, though I be nothing.
Gal 6:3 For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself.
Don't you get it man,we are nothing anyway,less than nothing,even if we love.But I joke for that is only illustrating the point that God is so much greater than us,that we cannot even compare to His greatness.
I 100% agree. I use the phrase, "(THE) GREAT TRIBULATION" because that's what everyone calls it. The GT as referred to by Jesus in Mat 24 is the all out Islamic attack upon Israel which lasts up to 45 days as foretold in Dan 12. But I agree, there are different "great tribulations." Right now the Christians in Syria and Iraq are experiencing great tribulations just as the Armenian Christians did in the early 20th century at the hands of the Ottoman Turks and as the Jews did during WWII.
When I use the phrase "The Great Tribulation" I am referring to the one spoken of by Jesus in Mat 24 and not the other two from Revelation. The two from Rev deals with Christian persecution and most likely represent the 50 + million Christians already martyred plus the vast numbers still to be killed.
We disagree on our interpretation of the GT of Mat 24. You think it happened back in AD 70. I see it as a future event primarily because I cannot find any defilement or Abomination of Desolation set up in AD 70. Also, Titus was not a king from the north, he was a king from the west. Titus never stood, or sat, in any holy place claiming to be God, at least not that I am aware of. Also, I don't believe Titus was any richer than the other kings of Dan 11.