The Rapture

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Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
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He has never resurrected.
When Jesus said "today you will be with me in paradise" he was speaking about the man's spirit/soul. We know this because his body was buried in the earth. He will be resurrected later.

No, it says that the "dead in Christ" rise first.

If they rise first, how can they already be with the Lord?
When a believer dies, their spirit/soul departs from the body and goes to be in the presence of the Lord. Their bodies are decaying in the earth. When the resurrection takes place, Jesus will bring with him all of those spirits/souls who have died in him and their bodies will resurrect and they will be reunited with those resurrected bodies. Then immediately after that, the living in Christ will be changed into their immortal and glorified bodies and will be caught up with them.
 

abcdef

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
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And you might add it is closer than most people think.

Is it possible to have a Mark that controls all buying and selling?

The answer to that riddle is really very simple in this modern era of computerized scanners.

TECHNOLOGY NEEDED TO FULFILL THE MARK OF THE BEAST

No 666 is not a symbol, it is only a number that identifies a man, IT SAYS SO, read it again.

Revelation 13:16-18 (NKJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads,
[SUP]17 [/SUP] and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man: His number is 666.

In other words it is similar to our Social Security numbers. Only this one will be three groups of 6 digits. Henry Kissenger invented such a EMERGENCY plan in the late 90s, in case the perceived Y2K world wide banking crash actually happened. Since it is the computer age, it probably will be a number imbedded in a very small microchip or biochip as they want to call those designed for humans. They are already testing the (RFID) Radio Frequency Identification Devices in humans in Florida. In particular, for Seniors with Alzheimer's to store their health records on. Instead of the chip that was about twice the size of a grain of rice, like the one in my dog's neck; they have now shrunk the RFID down to not a whole lot bigger than a grain of salt. I posted the following on another site a couple years ago, so the technology is even more advanced now. I added two links at the bottom very recently, in fact that second to the bottom link was dated 20 Nov. 2013 and has a picture of the world's fastest super computer, which doubled the size and speed of the previous record holder. Those two links show that the world really does computers big enough and fast enough acomodate all the worlds bank accounts, and the fact that RFID readers are already starting to show up in stores, should make us sit up and take notice that the stage is set and the time could be very near.


WHAT IS THE MARK OF THE BEAST


The most likely thing the Mark of the Beast could be is a biochip implant, because of the Biblical statement that one will not be able to buy or sell anything without it. They currently have built into them up to a 15 digit ID numbering system. It will not surprise me, (if the Church is still here), when the Antichrist comes to power as the Head of State of the old Roman Empire; that he averts a world wide economic collapse by converting all of the worlds monitary systems and bank accounts to function like credit cards in the form of these implanted biochips. AND watch him add a number to all three hyphenated groups of numbers stored in those Biochip IDs, such as: 123456-123456-123456. Hence his number will be 666 (6 digits dash 6 digits dash 6 digits). Also some of the Techs working on these super computers that they believe we are going to need in the near future, have jokingly referred to their super computers as the "beast"; but I am not laughing.





HERE IS THE RFID MICROCHIP TV ADVERT 100% PROOF IT IS HERE - YouTube

IBM RFID Commercial - The Future Market - YouTube

Hitachi Releases 2.5mm C1G2 Durable RFID Tag: Host Louis Sirico - YouTube

Under Your SkinThe War against Freedom – Human Biochip Implant

Microchip Implants

Bio-chip implant arrives for cashless transactions

Tianhe-2 Tops Supercomputer List > ENGINEERING.com

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GovcXrEVCc

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microchip_implant_(human)

https://www.theatlantic.com/technol...id-chip-in-his-hand-to-spread-gif-art/278929/

Office puts chips under staff's skin - BBC News


VCO,

The beast is Rome. It's the iron legs/toes of the statue in Dan. 2. It's the 4th beast of Dan. 7. And it's the dragon with 7 heads etc.

The mark can ONLY be the mark of Rome, the mark of Caesar.

It has been pressed on the people of Israel for 2000 years.
 

abcdef

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
2,809
106
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Yes, it is scary! And it appears that they are looking forward to it. Excited even! I'm sure that very soon will begin to see people world-wide beginning to use this device in replacement of swiping cards and cell phone bank apps to credit and debit (buying and selling) their bank accounts.

Regarding this, since we can see the stage being set for the coming mark and that antichrist, then the gathering of the church is very close indeed.
Rome is the Dragon iron beast nation.
 
Dec 2, 2016
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Hi Ahwh: Would never happen, the motivation for the pre-trib rapture is not scripture, it is because it is an easy way out, folks who do something for an easy way out, do so because they do not have the intestinal fortitude to face up to the unpleasant reality. Those folks are not going to suddenly be filled with courage and brave the storm, they are going to fold like a cheap umbrella in a wind storm. If the pre-trib rapture did not offer an escape from the worst disaster of all time then no one would believe in it because there is no real scripture to support it. Scripture is manipulated to support the pre-trib rapture because people want desperately to believe it is true.
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
5,070
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I just started to study the rapture and the tribulation few days ago. I came across what every Christian is debating about. I alone believe in the mid tribulation rapture. I just want to get your view on this if you are pre-trib, mid-trib or post-trib rapture believer. THANKS AND GOD BLESS
I believe in the Post - tribulation rapture that will happen on the day of the return of the LORD Jesus Christ..
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
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Hi Ahwh: Would never happen, the motivation for the pre-trib rapture is not scripture, it is because it is an easy way out, folks who do something for an easy way out, do so because they do not have the intestinal fortitude to face up to the unpleasant reality. Those folks are not going to suddenly be filled with courage and brave the storm, they are going to fold like a cheap umbrella in a wind storm. If the pre-trib rapture did not offer an escape from the worst disaster of all time then no one would believe in it because there is no real scripture to support it. Scripture is manipulated to support the pre-trib rapture because people want desperately to believe it is true.
I don't do it for an easy way out, but because it is scripture. If that scenario that you mentioned were to happen, I wouldn't just throw my hands up running around saying "woe is me" and turn away from Christ. And I'm sure that all true believers would have the same spirit. We would simply pray to God to give us strength to make it through and enable us to die if that was our fate.

As I said, the true Christian's faith is not based on when the gathering takes place, but on the shed blood of Christ. We are always ready for persecution and even death. So, why would fall apart if we found ourselves in that time period. If anything it would be a great opportunity to identify the antichrist and the false prophet to unbelievers.

Scripture is not manipulated at all, we just understand that believers are not appointed to suffer God's wrath and because of that and because the Lord said so, He will gather us prior to God's coming wrath and the beasts kingdom.

Where true believers are looking for the blessed hope, the appearing of our Lord, you on the other hand are looking to go through the wrath of God and are therefore not trusting in his promises nor are you recognizing him as already suffering God's wrath on our behalf.

You will soon see the truth of this matter. Unfortunately, because of your interpretation, you may get what you are looking forward to i.e. let it be according to your faith. Since your faith is to go through God's wrath, you just might get your wish and that because you didn't believe in his promise.
 

abcdef

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
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When Jesus said "today you will be with me in paradise" he was speaking about the man's spirit/soul. We know this because his body was buried in the earth. He will be resurrected later.



When a believer dies, their spirit/soul departs from the body and goes to be in the presence of the Lord. Their bodies are decaying in the earth. When the resurrection takes place, Jesus will bring with him all of those spirits/souls who have died in him and their bodies will resurrect and they will be reunited with those resurrected bodies. Then immediately after that, the living in Christ will be changed into their immortal and glorified bodies and will be caught up with them.
Brother, I really enjoy thought provoking posts like this one.

I'll think about this, and get back with you.

Thanks for sharing this.
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
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Lk 17:22-37, dest of Jeru. see v31, and Mk 13:15, Matt 24:17-18
Gonna have to go ahead and disagree with you on this one buddy:D. Luke 17:22-25 yes, the rest of the passage, no.

I assure you nobody was out in the fields in 70 AD. Everything was destroyed, all the trees and plants were gone for miles. No one was really eating or drinking except the tyrants and robbers and nobody was getting married in 70 AD. Luke 17 paints a peaceful picture just moments before the "Son of Man is revealed." Notice I didn't say "returns?" There was nothing peaceful about 70 AD.

We have two "Christ" events. The first was the wrath "presence" return of 70 AD which happened the same day that the temple was destroyed. The second is yet future and deals with the end of time and final judgment.

70 AD:
Mat 24:4-34
Mark 13:2-30
Luke 17:22-24
Luke 21:6-32


Future:
Mat 24:35-51
Mark 13:31-37
Luke 17:26-37
Luke 21:33-36

This is why there has been so much confusion and debate. The pre-tribbers see the two "comings" but they don't realize the GT happened in 70 AD so there is no need to be raptured from it. The preterists pick up on the GT of 70 AD and the "Wrath against Jerusalem presence return of Christ" back then but fail to see the future return associated with the end of time and final judgment and eternal state.

The reality is, the GT happened in 70 AD, Christ's presence was felt and His armies were seen in the sky but He used the Roman armies to end Israel as they knew it. The millennium began at His resurrection, see Mt 28:18: "And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth." And thus, the Church age began and the Mosaic age would end 40 years later at the destruction of the Temple.

We have been in the Church age (or Messianic Age) since 30 AD. Christ is reigning over this age as He is the head of the Church. The signs of the end of the Church Age are the "days of Noah" which I take to mean lawlessness and wickedness but the sinners think everything is normal. We also have the rebirth and gathering of Israel (which happened) then we will have a massive Muslim army surround her and God divinely intervenes, see Ez 38-39, Rev 20:7-9. Then we have the resurrection, the "rapture" and judgment followed by the eternal state.
 
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PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
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When Jesus said "today you will be with me in paradise" he was speaking about the man's spirit/soul. We know this because his body was buried in the earth. He will be resurrected later.



When a believer dies, their spirit/soul departs from the body and goes to be in the presence of the Lord. Their bodies are decaying in the earth. When the resurrection takes place, Jesus will bring with him all of those spirits/souls who have died in him and their bodies will resurrect and they will be reunited with those resurrected bodies. Then immediately after that, the living in Christ will be changed into their immortal and glorified bodies and will be caught up with them.
We actually agree on this;). But, this happens after the "millennium" (undefined long period of time) which has already lasted 1,987 years and continues.

[SUP]5 [/SUP]But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished.


Keep in mind, that the believer doesn't really die. They die physically but are then immediately with Christ as they were when they were alive because "For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you."
 

PlainWord

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Jun 11, 2013
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The transition verse to these two main events (70 AD return and future) are these:

Mt 24: [SUP]35 [/SUP]Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.
Mk 13: [SUP]31 [/SUP]Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.
Luke 21:
[SUP]33 [/SUP]Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.

After Christ introduces "heaven and earth passing away" He then starts to discuss this event. I like it. Testing this now but it seems to fit everything.
 
Nov 12, 2015
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Hi Ahwh: Would never happen, the motivation for the pre-trib rapture is not scripture, it is because it is an easy way out, folks who do something for an easy way out, do so because they do not have the intestinal fortitude to face up to the unpleasant reality. Those folks are not going to suddenly be filled with courage and brave the storm, they are going to fold like a cheap umbrella in a wind storm. If the pre-trib rapture did not offer an escape from the worst disaster of all time then no one would believe in it because there is no real scripture to support it. Scripture is manipulated to support the pre-trib rapture because people want desperately to believe it is true.
I don't believe this is so, Samuel.
I believe in our gathering together at any moment and it is not motivated by wanting to escape beheading or severe food shortages. I am told to look eagerly for His appearing, to hasten His coming. I don't have a motivation of wanting to escape hard times. My motivation is love and hope.

As for wanting to escape hard times, I find right now very hard. The struggle with my trust in every circumstance I find myself in is sometimes monumental. I find it hard and trying to not store away money as I'm told I should in order to have the obedience of faith instead of trusting in a stockpile. My testing and pressing is right now, every day, every time I'm tempted to get angry with Him because it feels so hard and feels sometimes like His hand is against me every way I turn. Every time my hands ache and burn to the point of tears, every time my back goes out, or my teeth rot some more or a video surfaces of a child being abused or a dog getting the crap beat out of it. Beheading would be fast and easy compared to keeping my trust day after plodding day as my body deteriorates more and more and men around me seem to become more and more heartless.

So I don't think all men who believe in being kept from the testing that is about to come on the whole world have a motivation of wanting to escape hard things.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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VCO,

The beast is Rome. It's the iron legs/toes of the statue in Dan. 2. It's the 4th beast of Dan. 7. And it's the dragon with 7 heads etc.

The mark can ONLY be the mark of Rome, the mark of Caesar.

It has been pressed on the people of Israel for 2000 years.
I have NEWS for you, it has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE SEVEN HILLS of Rome. IT SPECIFICALLY SAYS SEVEN MOUNTAINS, Mountains, Horns, and Heads in Biblical Prophecy are are symbolism for Kingdoms or Nations. The beast with 10 Horns, has 3 of them torn up by their roots; leaving SEVEN. Many of the Younger Generations, cannot figure out what that means, but my generation saw it HAPPEN to one country on the Nightly News. East Germany was torn up by it's roots; therefore it is as if it had NEVER EXISTED.

As for the the Number, GOD SAID IT WAS THE NUMBER OF A MAN, therefore your false prophets are deceiving and being deceived.


Revelation 13:18 (YLT)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] Here is the wisdom! He who is having the understanding, let him count the number of the beast, for the number of a man {PERSONAL ID NUMBER} it is, and its number is six hundred and sixty six.

Revelation 13:17 (YLT)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] and that no one may be able to buy, or to sell, except he who is having the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

Forget your false prophet's Codes and Theories, IT SAYS IT IN PLAIN LITERAL ENGLISH.


[video=youtube;eob532iEpqk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eob532iEpqk&feature=related[/video]
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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AND THIS TECHNOLOGY HAS A MAJOR FLAW. PHONES CAN BE LOST OR STOLEN.

HENCE THE EMBEDDED CHIP IN YOUR HAND WILL BECOME MANDATORY.


[video=youtube;NrmMk1Myrxc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrmMk1Myrxc[/video]


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xz65RFAQ4N8
 
P

popeye

Guest
Hi Ahwh: Would never happen, the motivation for the pre-trib rapture is not scripture, it is because it is an easy way out, folks who do something for an easy way out, do so because they do not have the intestinal fortitude to face up to the unpleasant reality. Those folks are not going to suddenly be filled with courage and brave the storm, they are going to fold like a cheap umbrella in a wind storm. If the pre-trib rapture did not offer an escape from the worst disaster of all time then no one would believe in it because there is no real scripture to support it. Scripture is manipulated to support the pre-trib rapture because people want desperately to believe it is true.
Let me guess.

Some teenagers got a hold of your phone and composed this broad brush,nothing to offer,put down of your brothers in Christ.

No mature saint guesses recklessly at someone's motive.

You are a fine line away from ghetto trash talk.

When you slander us,you loose any hope of convincing anyone.
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
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Revelation 13:17 (YLT)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] and that no one may be able to buy, or to sell, except he who is having the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
I guess you don't need the mark because the section you conveniently didn't highlight says that the name or number of his name is good enough also. Have you thought about what it means to have his name or number of his name?
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
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Revelation 13:17 (YLT)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] and that no one may be able to buy, or to sell, except he who is having the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
I guess you don't need the mark because the section you conveniently didn't highlight says that the name or number of his name is good enough also. Have you thought about what it means to have his name or number of his name?
This happened when Christians could not join the guilds and thus buy and sell because it required worshipping the emperor in and around 90 ad..
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
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This happened when Christians could not join the guilds and thus buy and sell because it required worshipping the emperor in and around 90 ad..
Yes, and it was also present throughout time, since Egypt and maybe even Babel.



There were 36 constellations called "Decans" used in ancient Egyptian astrology. They were also used by the Babylonians and the Greeks for astrology and magic. As you can see, each number, 1-36 are organized in 6 rows with each row in each direction adding up to 111. 6 x 111 of course is 666. If you look closely you can see a cube.

Those who are deceived into receiving "the mark" or number or name we're told receive the harshest of all punishment.

He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. [SUP]11 [/SUP]And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”

It would not be fair to have this deception present only at the end of time. So except when Satan was bound, this deception has been handed down through the centuries in various forms of sun and moon worship. Therefore anyone who violates the first commandment is worshiping the "beast."

Today, the worship has taken on a new form but has roots all the way back to Egypt and Babylon. There is still a cube and people circle it and kiss a black stone (an image which fell from the sky).


 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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Yes, it is scary! And it appears that they are looking forward to it. Excited even! I'm sure that very soon will begin to see people world-wide beginning to use this device in replacement of swiping cards and cell phone bank apps to credit and debit (buying and selling) their bank accounts.

Regarding this, since we can see the stage being set for the coming mark and that antichrist, then the gathering of the church is very close indeed.

Canada started using it as a optional ATM card back in 98.

We have been using it for a few years to store medical records of Alzheimer patients.

I agree, "Soon and Very Soon".


[video=youtube;lmGiu9JfbIs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmGiu9JfbIs[/video]


Not only is the Technology here, but so are the Prophesied SCOFFERS.


2 Peter 3:3-4 (HCSB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] First, be aware of this: Scoffers will come in the last days to scoff, living according to their own desires,
[SUP]4 [/SUP] saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? Ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they have been since the beginning of creation.”
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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This happened when Christians could not join the guilds and thus buy and sell because it required worshipping the emperor in and around 90 ad..
What part of NO ONE, do you not understand?


That Literally was not possible before the SUPER COMPUTERS we have now.
 
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