The Rapture

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
113
What part {of Mat. 24} wasn't fulfilled, I'm asking, I don't know what part you may consider unfulfilled.

Let me try.

Matthew 24:2 (HCSB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] Then He replied to them, “Don’t you see all these things? I assure you: Not one stone will be left here on another that will not be thrown down!”


Many used to say that was evidence that Bible is not Literally true, because of the fact the Whaling Wall, was said to be part of the TEMPLE WALL. THEY CLAIMED that was the proof that Jesus was not speaking LITERALLY. NOW within the last two months archeologists have found evidence that Jerusalem of Jesus' day was a few hundred meters South of the Modern Day Jerusalem, placing the TEMPLE outside the Southern Wall of Modern Day Jerusalem, a short way into the modern day City of David. That means the so-called Temple Mount is the Center of Fort Antonia where the 10th Legion of 10,000 men were barracks; thus the whaling wall is actually part of that Fort Antonia Wall. The type of Stones at the TEMPLE, had to be a specified type of stone, and the Whaling Wall is the WRONG KIND OF STONES. {See my Recent post with a new video by those the archeologists, dated June 18, 2017.} THEREFORE with the correct location of the TEMPLE being in the CITY of DAVID, that prophecy was 100% fulfilled.

Matthew 24:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

That part of Mat. 24, is not fulfilled YET, but we are getting close. On a mountain near Quito, Ecuador is a Radio Station that is called HCJB Radio (Harolding Christ Jesus Broadcasting). HCJB, Quito, Ecuador - A Tribute Their mission is to take Christian Radio Programs and translate them into the National Language of every country in the WORLD via short wave Radio. They have a few languages to go, but are closing in on their goal. THAT LOCATION, specifically was chosen, because they can hit every country in the world with short wave radio from that location.


Matthew 24:15-51 (HCSB) [SUP]15 [/SUP] “So when you see the abomination that causes desolation, spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place” (let the reader understand),
[SUP]16 [/SUP] “then those in Judea must flee to the mountains!
[SUP]17 [/SUP] A man on the housetop must not come down to get things out of his house.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] And a man in the field must not go back to get his clothes.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Woe to pregnant women and nursing mothers in those days!
[SUP]20 [/SUP] Pray that your escape may not be in winter or on a Sabbath.
[SUP]21 [/SUP] For at that time there will be great tribulation, the kind that hasn’t taken place from the beginning of the world until now and never will again!
[SUP]22 [/SUP] Unless those days were limited, no one would survive. But those days will be limited because of the elect.
[SUP]23 [/SUP] “If anyone tells you then, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘Over here!’ do not believe it!
[SUP]24 [/SUP] False messiahs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.
[SUP]25 [/SUP] Take note: I have told you in advance.
[SUP]26 [/SUP] So if they tell you, ‘Look, He’s in the wilderness!’ don’t go out; ‘Look, He’s in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it.
[SUP]27 [/SUP] For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.
[SUP]28 [/SUP] Wherever the carcass is, there the vultures will gather.
[SUP]29 [/SUP] “Immediately after the tribulation of those days: The sun will be darkened, and the moon will not shed its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the celestial powers will be shaken.
[SUP]30 [/SUP] “Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the peoples of the earth will mourn; and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
[SUP]31 [/SUP] He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.
[SUP]32 [/SUP] “Now learn this parable from the fig tree: As soon as its branch becomes tender and sprouts leaves, you know that summer is near.
[SUP]33 [/SUP] In the same way, when you see all these things, recognize that He is near—at the door!
[SUP]34 [/SUP] I assure you: This generation will certainly not pass away until all these things take place.
[SUP]35 [/SUP] Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will never pass away.
[SUP]36 [/SUP] “Now concerning that day and hour no one knows—neither the angels in heaven, nor the Son—except the Father only.
[SUP]37 [/SUP] As the days of Noah were, so the coming of the Son of Man will be.
[SUP]38 [/SUP] For in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day Noah boarded the ark.
[SUP]39 [/SUP] They didn’t know until the flood came and swept them all away. So this is the way the coming of the Son of Man will be:
[SUP]40 [/SUP] Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and one left.
[SUP]41 [/SUP] Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and one left.
[SUP]42 [/SUP] Therefore be alert, since you don’t know what day your Lord is coming.
[SUP]43 [/SUP] But know this: If the homeowner had known what time the thief was coming, he would have stayed alert and not let his house be broken into.
[SUP]44 [/SUP] This is why you also must be ready, because the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.
[SUP]45 [/SUP] “Who then is a faithful and sensible slave, whom his master has put in charge of his household, to give them food at the proper time?
[SUP]46 [/SUP] That slave whose master finds him working when he comes will be rewarded.
[SUP]47 [/SUP] I assure you: He will put him in charge of all his possessions.
[SUP]48 [/SUP] But if that wicked slave says in his heart, ‘My master is delayed,’
[SUP]49 [/SUP] and starts to beat his fellow slaves, and eats and drinks with drunkards,
[SUP]50 [/SUP] that slave’s master will come on a day he does not expect and at an hour he does not know.
[SUP]51 [/SUP] He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

THE REST OF THAT Chapter is all about the End Times, and we do not care if you disagree and even want to attribute it to the destruction of the Temple in 70 A.D., which it is not.
 
H

heartofdavid

Guest
While I am still undecided on my eschatology and praying and studying it out, I must say that this is the view that I first thought of when I became Christian, I simply compared 1 Thessalonians 4:16 to the cross-reference 1 Cor 15:51-52 and I read about the last trumpet, then when I found the last trumpet and it said "The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord" I thought it was just that simple.

But yes. There is no bulletproof view of eschatology, if there was, we would have no debate about it.
Jesus is truth. I am guaranteed truth,because of Jesus.

That is why revelatory precedes the word,and the word confirms Jesus' leading.

Salvation is a good example. I have seen thousands saved. Can not remember one that did so under instruction of the word alone.
 
H

heartofdavid

Guest
First fruits of them that slept, not them that will sleep.

1 Corinthians 15:20 KJV
But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
Yep,that is correct. All the OT Patriarchs rose alongside Jesus,followed him upward.
 
May 11, 2014
936
39
0
Jesus is truth. I am guaranteed truth,because of Jesus.

That is why revelatory precedes the word,and the word confirms Jesus' leading.

Salvation is a good example. I have seen thousands saved. Can not remember one that did so under instruction of the word alone.
Pardon me but what do you mean by revelatory precedes the word? What is revelatory?
 
Nov 23, 2013
13,684
1,212
113
@ PW

I think you were right about not having to wait for a resurrection at the end to get a new body, I believe it's immediate after death in the twinkling of an eye.

I don't know I've helped you at all my friend but you have helped me immensely.
 
May 11, 2014
936
39
0
@ PW

I think you were right about not having to wait for a resurrection at the end to get a new body, I believe it's immediate after death in the twinkling of an eye.

I don't know I've helped you at all my friend but you have helped me immensely.
I may not agree with PlainWord on the resurrection being past, but I must agree he is a nice fellow. Pleasure to talk with. You as well mr KJV
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
7,080
151
63
It is not someones fevered imagination I have actually heard Pre Trib Pastors call it a secret rapture and how people will wonder where all the Christians had gone. The rapture coincides with the seventh trumpet it happens just before or during the outpouring of wrath. To say that there is no signs before it makes no sense when Revelation is full of them. Also if there is
no signs prior to the rapture why all the fuss about Israel becoming a state in 1948?.

The teaching of a Pre Trib rapture is a lie.

Corrie ten Boom wrote in her 1974 book Will Christians escape Tribulation that in China Christians were told not to worry because before the tribulation comes they would be raptured then persecution came and millions of them were tortured to death She said that later she heard a Bishop from China say we have failed we should have made the people strong in times of persecution rather than telling them that Jesus would come first. Corrie Ten Boom had personal experience with persecution. She was put in a concentration Camp for helping Dutch Jews to escape the Nazis She died in 1983

I wonder how many more Christians will find out too late that what they have been taught was a lie
I like your post but too late for what? Other than being wrong and wasting their hopes and dreams on a fantasy, I don't see what actual danger they are in with their false beliefs.
 

shrume

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2017
2,193
464
83
Just curious, but what do Preterists hope for? Do you have a hope? What is it?

Related to that: what do Preterists believe will be the next Biblical event?
 
May 11, 2014
936
39
0
Just curious, but what do Preterists hope for? Do you have a hope? What is it?

Related to that: what do Preterists believe will be the next Biblical event?
This is one of the reasons I will never be a preterist (a full one) it is hopeless, there is no next event.
You just have to wait to die and be resurrected in full-preterism.
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
7,080
151
63
I don't think Christians fleeing to Pella is the wheat harvest. When something is harvested, it is taken out of the field... the field is the world.
I guess I could have worded it better. Please let's look at the exact text of Christ's words:

[SUP]37 [/SUP]He answered and said to them: “He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. [SUP]38 [/SUP]The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one.

So Christ sows the seed in the "world." Christ never left Israel during His ministry. (Actually, there is evidence in scripture that says Christ went alone to the cities of the decapolis of which Pella was one). The good seeds, the Sons of the Kingdom, were sent out into the world. Unlike the pre-trib futurists, we understand that the "world" is not the entire planet of the 21st century. They went out into the known world. We also understand (I think you agree) that the "end of the age" is the end of their age, not our age. There are multiple passages on this.

If you read history you will learn that the corpses of dead bodies in the city were stacked up on top of each other in houses, in buildings and lining the streets, like "bundles." The stench of over 650,000 decaying bodies in the summer sun was unimaginable. They burned in the fire once Titus broke through, thus fulfilling this:

First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them.

but gather the wheat into my barn.”’”

The wheat spiritually were gathered into the kingdom, but literally they went to Pella. This division of wicked for burning and righteous for salvation of the Jewish nation was the harvest. All the Jews who were not in Israel came back for Passover, both Christian and non, as was custom. So all the Christians left together as recorded by many historians and early church leaders meanwhile, the non believing Jews became prisoners IN BONDAGE with their city for judgment (Gal 4). The saved belong to the free Jerusalem above. Incredible!!
 
Last edited:
Nov 23, 2013
13,684
1,212
113
Let me try.

Matthew 24:2 (HCSB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] Then He replied to them, “Don’t you see all these things? I assure you: Not one stone will be left here on another that will not be thrown down!”


Many used to say that was evidence that Bible is not Literally true, because of the fact the Whaling Wall, was said to be part of the TEMPLE WALL. THEY CLAIMED that was the proof that Jesus was not speaking LITERALLY. NOW within the last two months archeologists have found evidence that Jerusalem of Jesus' day was a few hundred meters South of the Modern Day Jerusalem, placing the TEMPLE outside the Southern Wall of Modern Day Jerusalem, a short way into the modern day City of David. That means the so-called Temple Mount is the Center of Fort Antonia where the 10th Legion of 10,000 men were barracks; thus the whaling wall is actually part of that Fort Antonia Wall. The type of Stones at the TEMPLE, had to be a specified type of stone, and the Whaling Wall is the WRONG KIND OF STONES. {See my Recent post with a new video by those the archeologists, dated June 18, 2017.} THEREFORE with the correct location of the TEMPLE being in the CITY of DAVID, that prophecy was 100% fulfilled.
So are you agreeing that "not one stone will be left upon another" was 100% fulfilled in AD 70?
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
7,080
151
63
@ PW

I think you were right about not having to wait for a resurrection at the end to get a new body, I believe it's immediate after death in the twinkling of an eye.

I don't know I've helped you at all my friend but you have helped me immensely.
I certainly have learned a lot from you. You are probably my favorite person to bounce ideas off since GaryA disappeared. I hope he wasn't raptured, LOL.

I think you might be right about the OT saints. The thief went to Paradise. "Paradise" appears only 4 times, all in the NT. It is clear that Paradise is not Sheol. So since the Cross, anyone dying in Christ immediately go to heaven.

2 Cor 12: how he was caught up into Paradise and heard inexpressible words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

Rev 2: “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes I will give to eat from the tree of life, which is in the midst of the Paradise of God.”’


 
Nov 23, 2013
13,684
1,212
113
This is one of the reasons I will never be a preterist (a full one) it is hopeless, there is no next event.
You just have to wait to die and be resurrected in full-preterism.
What hope should we be looking for? The resurrection?
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
113
. . .

I wonder how many more Christians will find out too late that what they have been taught was a lie
LOL, you really know very little about what we believe do you. There is no chance that our belief that we are to be keeping ready for our Bridegroom every day of our lives, causing us not to be called to HIM in the Air, no matter what time it happens. HOWEVER, thinking the RAPTURE is a joke, and not bothering to KEEP READY most certainly will STOP YOU from being CALLED to the Wedding of the LAMB, and insure that you HAVE TO GO THRU EVERY BIT OF THE GREAT TRIBULATION, until you die. That is what the Parable of Ten Virgins is all about.

That makes your theology a very dangerous theology, because it encourages people to think they can get ready later.
 
Nov 23, 2013
13,684
1,212
113
I certainly have learned a lot from you. You are probably my favorite person to bounce ideas off since GaryA disappeared. I hope he wasn't raptured, LOL.

I think you might be right about the OT saints. The thief went to Paradise. "Paradise" appears only 4 times, all in the NT. It is clear that Paradise is not Sheol. So since the Cross, anyone dying in Christ immediately go to heaven.

2 Cor 12: how he was caught up into Paradise and heard inexpressible words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

Rev 2: “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes I will give to eat from the tree of life, which is in the midst of the Paradise of God.”’


I still have some dispensational garbage in my mind clouding judgement on some things, especially the resurrection. I'm being to believe that there is no BIG ressurection at the end, I believe it is an ongoing proceedure where, when we die we are instantly resurrected passing from life unto life.

2 Corinthians 2:16 KJV
To the one we are the savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who is sufficient for these things?
 

J7

Banned
Apr 2, 2017
1,915
13
0
If we are dead we won't be looking for anything
 
Nov 23, 2013
13,684
1,212
113
The 2nd Coming
The second coming could be many years after I die, and this certainly has been true for millions of people. There would be more hope in dying than waiting for the second coming, because that's a given, I will go to be Lord at that instant.