The Rapture

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Sep 4, 2012
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Hello HeRose,

We can't tell who you are responding to unless you put click on reply to the post that you are addressing or copy and paste his original post. So regarding your post above, who were you responding to?

Thanks!
If you can't see who I responded to then you must have him on ignore.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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No, because it will show me that the person is on ignore. I've already seen it with other posts. Yours does not show anything.
Do you have Locutus on ignore? That is who was quoted :) I can see the quoted post ;)
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
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Click Show ignored members at bottom right of page.
That's what I am saying, there isn't one. The other posts show me a partial post from the one who is ignored and allows me to click on it to see the message. Yours however does not.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
7,471
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Do you have Locutus on ignore? That is who was quoted :) I can see the quoted post ;)
Yes, I have Locutus on ignore and I see the option to click so that I can view what he posted, but that is not the case with HeRose.
 

Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
Nov 12, 2015
9,110
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Yes, I have Locutus on ignore and I see the option to click so that I can view what he posted, but that is not the case with HeRose.
The post of HRFTD that you quoted and said he had not quoted anyone, shows me that he has quoted locutus. I visibly see it. I think it was a glitch.
 
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
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That's what I am saying, there isn't one. The other posts show me a partial post from the one who is ignored and allows me to click on it to see the message. Yours however does not.
Bottom right of page... in faint letters... Show ignored content... not on the post itself.
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
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The curse of the law is indeed no more, but the curse of Genesis is still with us and will be until Christ returns. I'm pretty certain that Rev 22 is referring to the latter curse.
The Genesis curse ended. The really important curse had nothing to do with weeds and mosquitoes. Instead, it had everything to do with separation from God, which is spiritual death. Now granted, the earth was also cursed and Adam and mankind had to toil, but the big curse, which was lifted, is this one from Gen 3:

22 Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”— 23 therefore the Lord God sent him out of the garden of Eden to till the ground from which he was taken.

Rev 22 shows that this curse was lifted and we now once again have direct access to God.

2 In the middle of its street, and on either side of the river, was the tree of life, which bore twelve fruits, each tree yielding its fruit every month. The leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. 3 And there shall be no more curse, but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, and His servants shall serve Him.
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
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Brother PW,

The kingdom came on Pentecost. If the kingdom came in 70 ad., then when is the mill?

I mean, if the kingdom came in 70 ad., we must be in the mill right now, yes/no? 70 ad would be when the mill began?

Then how can there be another resurrection at the end of the mill? You would be showing at least 3 resurrections, contrary to 1 Cor 15:23-28, 23-24, which shows only 2. #1 Jesus, and #2 those who are Christ's at His coming.

----
The mil is now. We've been fully in it since 70 AD. The transition between ages started at Pentecost or perhaps even at the Cross. The "thousand" years are not to be taken as exactly 1,000 hills. This is clear from other uses of "thousand." Psm 50:10 is a good example. Christ is reigning from Heaven with the Earth as His footstool.

Satan has been banned from deceiving the nations during this period. Nothing says sin was banned or halted.

Think of how radically different our world is today vs prior to 70 AD. Since Israel became a nation up and until 70AD, they had to follow the Law with all the sacrifices, rituals and feasts. They were imprisoned by the Law which kept growing (under the religious leaders) and the harsh penalties that went along with it. Not just the Jews but basically all of the known world had their temples, sacrifices and gods to worship. Satan deceived the whole world with all of these false gods. The Caesars claimed to be God. People were put to death for the slightest insult or violation. In some cultures human sacrifices were made.

We don't have any of that today, by and large. Obviously there are still some who worship false gods and have false temples but there really aren't any sacrifices taking place except in some Satanic circles. Today, God's followers can have remission of sins just by praying. No need to go to a priest (unless you are Catholic) and repent. No need to offer up grain or animals which cost money. No need to watch what you eat or get circumcised (although many do). For anyone to think we are in the same age as prior to 70 AD, they haven't really thought this out. We are under Grace, not the Law. We are in the "age to come," the "age of power" mentioned in Heb 6.

4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

There was a 40-year transition period from the passing of the Law to the age to come. There was also a 40-year transition from the old age to the Law when Israel left Egypt too. The above clearly teaches that they were tasting the age to come, our age, in their days. None of the disciples were doing sacrifices for remission of sins, were they? Paul was teaching about the new way, things under the Law no longer required for believers. This is why the religious leaders wanted them all dead, their very livelihoods were at stake.
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
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Revelation 22 is obviously describing the new earth when GOD himself and the new Jerusalem have descended to earth, and when death has been eliminated. That's obviously not the case now. There is yet death and suffering, and Christ and the father are in heaven, not on earth.
Wrong!! Sin wasn't eliminated. Look again:

Rev 22: 14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.

We believers enter the kingdom upon accepting Christ. While we are mortals we are spiritually alive in the kingdom and will not die spiritually as long as we don't later reject Christ. The teaching in John is very clear on this point. But see above you still have wicked people who are outside the kingdom (city). These bad, unbelieving, people will experience the second death if they do not come to salvation before they die. The above passage describes our present day perfectly. In Galatians 4 Paul teaches that we belong to the new Jerusalem above.

The curse lifted was Hades, i.e., separation from God. Today when a believer dies, he or she goes straight to heaven, no longer going to Hades to wait first. Christ had the key to Hades, He unlocked the prisoners setting them free. This already happened. We have countless witnesses of people who had near death experiences going to heaven and seeing their loved ones and even Jesus. This would have been impossible under the old age.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
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The Genesis curse ended. The really important curse had nothing to do with weeds and mosquitoes. Instead, it had everything to do with separation from God, which is spiritual death. Now granted, the earth was also cursed and Adam and mankind had to toil, but the big curse, which was lifted, is this one from Gen 3:

22 Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”— 23 therefore the Lord God sent him out of the garden of Eden to till the ground from which he was taken.

Rev 22 shows that this curse was lifted and we now once again have direct access to God.

2 In the middle of its street, and on either side of the river, was the tree of life, which bore twelve fruits, each tree yielding its fruit every month. The leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. 3 And there shall be no more curse, but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, and His servants shall serve Him.
Its still a curse to those who are not born again. The removal of the curse did not bring Universalism. But was removed to as many as the father gave the Son, they alone can come as the father draws them.

The law as a curse will be present until the end of time disappearing in the new heavens and earth.

Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Luke 16:17And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.

The Revelation 22 passage is in the new heaven and earth
 

abcdef

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
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The mil is now. We've been fully in it since 70 AD. The transition between ages started at Pentecost or perhaps even at the Cross.
Brother PW,

If the mill started in 70 ad, what does the Rev 20 say happens at the end of the mill? Restored Jerusalem is surrounded by the gentile nations and destroyed. Rev 20, How can the mill start in 70 ad at the dest of Jeru, ...... and then have the destruction of 70 ad Jerusalem at the end of the mill also?

1 Cor 15:23-28, 23-24

The #1 resur......Jesus and the OT saints. 33 ad. First coming for salvation.

The #2 resur/rapt.... Those who are His at His coming. (7th/last trumpet, 2 W's) Yet to come. Second coming for salvation Heb 9:28

Death is destroyed, Rev 20:14-15 All death, separation, is ended.

-------

The beginning of the mill. The kingdom/church age began on Pentecost and continues to this day.

The Law age ended at the cross when the veil was torn.

The end of the temple age. Heaven and earth passed away at the 70 ad dest of Jeru., symbolically. But the Law died with Jesus. The dead body of the Law was buried in 70 ad., you could say literally. The presence of Jesus was there, but it was not a resurrection coming.


The "thousand" years are not to be taken as exactly 1,000 hills. This is clear from other uses of "thousand." Psm 50:10 is a good example. Christ is reigning from Heaven with the Earth as His footstool.
Yes

Satan has been banned from deceiving the nations during this period. Nothing says sin was banned or halted.
When the dragon (v 2) iron beast NATION (Rev 20, Rev 12:3, Daniel chs 2 & 7), comes out of the abyss, What does he deceive the nations into doing, that he could not do before his release? Surround Jerusalem.

But why couldn't the dragon beast NATION deceive the gentile nations into surrounding Jerusalem before this time? Because Israel, the woman Rev 12, was still scattered among the gentile nations beyond the reach of the waters of the dragon iron beast NATION.

If we are at the end of the mill., then these things are taking place now. Restored Jerusalem is being surrounded by the gentile nations.

The dragon iron beast NATION is Rome.


Think of how radically different our world is today vs prior to 70 AD. Since Israel became a nation up and until 70AD, they had to follow the Law with all the sacrifices, rituals and feasts. They were imprisoned by the Law which kept growing (under the religious leaders) and the harsh penalties that went along with it. Not just the Jews but basically all of the known world had their temples, sacrifices and gods to worship. Satan deceived the whole world with all of these false gods. The Caesars claimed to be God. People were put to death for the slightest insult or violation. In some cultures human sacrifices were made.
We don't have any of that today, by and large. Obviously there are still some who worship false gods and have false temples but there really aren't any sacrifices taking place except in some Satanic circles. Today, God's followers can have remission of sins just by praying. No need to go to a priest (unless you are Catholic) and repent. No need to offer up grain or animals which cost money. No need to watch what you eat or get circumcised (although many do). For anyone to think we are in the same age as prior to 70 AD, they haven't really thought this out. We are under Grace, not the Law. We are in the "age to come," the "age of power" mentioned in Heb 6.

4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.


There was a 40-year transition period from the passing of the Law to the age to come. There was also a 40-year transition from the old age to the Law when Israel left Egypt too. The above clearly teaches that they were tasting the age to come, our age, in their days. None of the disciples were doing sacrifices for remission of sins, were they? Paul was teaching about the new way, things under the Law no longer required for believers. This is why the religious leaders wanted them all dead, their very livelihoods were at stake.
The end of the temple age, 70 ad., was the beginning of the times of the gentiles age, until Israel is restored to Jerusalem. 70 ad until 1967. Lk 21:20-24, 24.
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
6,256
26
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Its still a curse to those who are not born again. The removal of the curse did not bring Universalism. But was removed to as many as the father gave the Son, they alone can come as the father draws them.

The law as a curse will be present until the end of time disappearing in the new heavens and earth.

Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Luke 16:17And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.

The Revelation 22 passage is in the new heaven and earth
The Law passed in 70 AD along with the temple, so you need to go back to the drawing board good buddy.
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
6,256
26
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Brother PW,

If the mill started in 70 ad, what does the Rev 20 say happens at the end of the mill? Restored Jerusalem is surrounded by the gentile nations and destroyed. Rev 20, How can the mill start in 70 ad at the dest of Jeru, ...... and then have the destruction of 70 ad Jerusalem at the end of the mill also?

1 Cor 15:23-28, 23-24

The #1 resur......Jesus and the OT saints. 33 ad. First coming for salvation.

The #2 resur/rapt.... Those who are His at His coming. (7th/last trumpet, 2 W's) Yet to come. Second coming for salvation Heb 9:28

Death is destroyed, Rev 20:14-15 All death, separation, is ended.

-------

The beginning of the mill. The kingdom/church age began on Pentecost and continues to this day.

The Law age ended at the cross when the veil was torn.

The end of the temple age. Heaven and earth passed away at the 70 ad dest of Jeru., symbolically. But the Law died with Jesus. The dead body of the Law was buried in 70 ad., you could say literally. The presence of Jesus was there, but it was not a resurrection coming.




Yes



When the dragon (v 2) iron beast NATION (Rev 20, Rev 12:3, Daniel chs 2 & 7), comes out of the abyss, What does he deceive the nations into doing, that he could not do before his release? Surround Jerusalem.

But why couldn't the dragon beast NATION deceive the gentile nations into surrounding Jerusalem before this time? Because Israel, the woman Rev 12, was still scattered among the gentile nations beyond the reach of the waters of the dragon iron beast NATION.

If we are at the end of the mill., then these things are taking place now. Restored Jerusalem is being surrounded by the gentile nations.

The dragon iron beast NATION is Rome.








The end of the temple age, 70 ad., was the beginning of the times of the gentiles age, until Israel is restored to Jerusalem. 70 ad until 1967. Lk 21:20-24, 24.
AF,

No, Rev 20 does not say Jerusalem gets destroyed. Please read the passage again.

They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them.

It is those surrounding the camp that get destroyed, not the "beloved city." From this small passage we can't tell if it is the Jerusalem we see today or if it's another beloved city. Nowhere in the Bible is Jerusalem called, "beloved." However, saints are frequently called "beloved" in the NT. Perhaps its the church which gets surrounded. We simply do not know.

I agree whatever is happening in this passage happens after the millennium is over. Thus the "millennium" which is really the "thousand years" begins at the Cross or Pentecost, transitions for 40 years, then the millennium is in full swing from 70 AD and through today. Then this crazy event of Rev 20 happens and presumably a new age will begin after that.
 

abcdef

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
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AF,

No, Rev 20 does not say Jerusalem gets destroyed. Please read the passage again.

They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them.


See what happens directly after the fire from heaven, the last judgment and death is destroyed..

This is the last scene on material planet earth. After this event the universe heavens and the planet earth fly away from the "face" of Jesus in His glory.

---

It is not only the armies that are destroyed, Jerusalem and the entire planet are destroyed by the fire and stone that strikes (Dan. 2).

The 2W's and the 7th trumpet give more details to the event described in Rev 20.


It is those surrounding the camp that get destroyed, not the "beloved city."
Well, there are several things taking place at this time.

1. The end of the mill/church/kingdom period on planet earth (the present).

The signs are the restoration of the people of Israel to Jerusalem, ending the times of the gentiles and the fullness of the gentiles, which is happening now.

The coming of the iron dragon beast nation out of the abyss. 1929 Vatican/Caesar/Antichrist returns to sit on the seat of the beast (Rome, iron nation Dan. 2, 4th beast nation Dan. 7., dragon Rev 12)

2. Jerusalem is surrounded by the armies of the gentile nations Magog.

This is an important clue to placing of this event in the prophetic time line. The attack on Jerusalem is only important because the people of Israel have been restored to the city, 1967. The city has been attacked many times since 70 ad., but it was not restored to Israel at those times.

The size of the armies is also shown at the 6th trumpet (200 mill., if you can accept it). The armies of Iran, Russia, Syria, and others are assembling now. Soon, Israel will stand alone and our enemies will attack. The whole planet will see Israel die. Then the fire.


3. The #2 resurrection, 7th/last trumpet, coming for the kingdom/church, the coming for salvation. (There are only 2 resurrections, 1 Cor 15:23-28, 23-24, Jesus and the OT saints and those who are His at His coming.)


From this small passage we can't tell if it is the Jerusalem we see today or if it's another beloved city. Nowhere in the Bible is Jerusalem called, "beloved." However, saints are frequently called "beloved" in the NT. Perhaps its the church which gets surrounded. We simply do not know.
It is the people of Israel restored in the city that make it beloved.

Time to decide if this is the present Jerusalem or not. If it is the present Jerusalem............then the #2 resurrection is about to happen, then it is the end.


I agree whatever is happening in this passage happens after the millennium is over. Thus the "millennium" which is really the "thousand years" begins at the Cross or Pentecost, transitions for 40 years, then the millennium is in full swing from 70 AD and through today. Then this crazy event of Rev 20 happens and presumably a new age will begin after that.
The new age after the fire is the eternal age after all life on planet earth has ended, heaven and planet earth have flown away, the last judgment has taken place, and death (separation) is ended.

This planet and universe will never be seen again. We are to live in the heart of God with Jesus, surrounded by His love.
 

MattforJesus

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
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I believe the resurrection happens at the end of the 7 years period.

The Bible says the saints are given in to the beast's hands for three and one half years, and when he has accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people then all things are finished.

And the Gospel must be preached in to all the world as a witness to the nations and then the end shall come.

Which then comes the end when the Son shall deliver up the kingdom to the Father, so the resurrection has to happen at the end of the 7 years period, for that is when it is the end and the kingdom delivered up to the Father.

Jesus said that when the resurrection happens the hypocrites will not be caught up with Him, and they will not have eternal life, and once He shuts the door no Gentile can receive salvation.

So if it is pre-trib resurrection then no Gentile could be saved after that so there would be no tribulation Gentile saints.

Also it if it pre-trib then the Gospel has been preached in to all the world, so there can be no tribulation Gentile saints for they were either hypocritical, or rejected the truth.

And God's wrath is not in the 7 years period, for the first three and one half years repentance and salvation is still available to the world, so the wrath of God will not be poured out on the world, and the saints will remain on earth as a witness to the world, and have not been resurrected yet.

And the beast has power to rule for the last three and one half years, and has power over all nations, kindreds ,and tongues, and no nation or kingdom can rule unless God allows it, so if God is giving the beast power to rule He will not pour out His wrath on the world.

The wrath of God is after the 7 years period, for God is giving the world their way for 7 years, and the seals are for a long period of time that started before the 7 years period and not the wrath of God, and the trumpets are not the wrath of God, but warnings to repent and turn to God, but after the 6th trumpet they do not turn to God, so He gives them the man of sin to rule over them.

The wrath of God is after the 7 years period leading up to the battle of Armageddon, which the world will attack Israel after the 7 years period, and then God will come back with all the saints, not some of the saints, but all the saints, so if they say there is a pre-trib resurrection and they will come back to unite with tribulation saints, then why is all the saints with God.

Also the beast blasphemes against God, and His tabernacle, which he would not have to do unless the saints are on earth, which Israel as a nation has not been turned to the truth yet, for they are blinded in part until salvation is no longer available to the Gentiles when they take the mark of the beast, and Israel is protected for the 7 years period from physical attack.

So this is addressed to the saints in all the nations, and the beast makes war against the saints in all the nations.

Which all the Jews are in Israel, and not in the nations, for when the man of sin establishes peace in the Middle East it will pave the way for all Jews to go to Israel, which God said He will bring the whole house of Israel back to Israel, and leave none of them in the nations anymore, and they shall know the LORD their God from that day forward, and He will not hide His face from them anymore.

The beast will make war against all the saints in all nations, and all the Jews are in the nation of Israel, but if it is a pre-trib resurrection there would not be any Gentile saints on earth during the 7 years period, and if that is the case the beast would not have to deceive the Gentiles, for they could not have salvation, but the beast deceives all people on earth that do not love God.

But if it is pre-trib there is no Gentile saints on earth during the 7 years period.

Also Paul said let no person deceive by any means, not by letter, and not by word, for the gathering of the saints will not happen until there is a falling away first which happens at the end of the first three and one half years, and the man of sin claims to be God at the middle of the 7 years period.

But then the beast makes war against the saints for three and one half years which is saints in all the nations.

But if it is pre-trib there is no Gentile saints on earth during the 7 years period.

Also Paul said when the nations come together and say Peace and safety the saints will not be deceived by that, which when the man of sin establishes peace in the Middle East, which is an obstacle to the coming together of the nations, and the nations come together, that is when the 7 years period will begin.

So the saints are on earth when the 7 years period begins, and Paul was addressing all people who confess Christ.

And Jesus said He will deliver those in the truth from the temptation that shall come upon the whole world to try all them that dwell on earth, which there can only be one temptation that can come upon all people at the same time, and that is when the world says Peace and safety, for will they be with God, or follow the world.

So the saints are on earth when the nations come together and say Peace and safety, so the saints are on earth when the 7 years period starts.

There is no pre-trib resurrection for then there would be no Gentile saints on earth during the 7 years period, but there are Gentile saints on earth during the 7 years period.

And repentance and salvation is available to the world for the first three and one half years, so the saints will remain on earth, and the wrath of God is not poured out on the world.

And the beast makes war against all saints in all nations for three and one half years, but if it is pre-trib there would not be any Gentile nations on earth, and the beast has power to rule, so the wrath of God is not poured out on the world.

The resurrection will happen at the end of the 7 years period, which after the beast scatters the power of the holy people for the last three and one half years, then all things are finished, and then comes the end when the Son shall deliver up the kingdom to the Father, when He shall put down all rule, authority, and power, but before the 7 years period starts Jesus did not put down the world for they still have more than 7 years to rule.

Paul said do not let any person deceive you by any means, even on this website.
 

abcdef

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
2,809
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AF,

No, Rev 20 does not say Jerusalem gets destroyed. Please read the passage again.

They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them.

It is those surrounding the camp that get destroyed, not the "beloved city." From this small passage we can't tell if it is the Jerusalem we see today or if it's another beloved city. Nowhere in the Bible is Jerusalem called, "beloved." However, saints are frequently called "beloved" in the NT. Perhaps its the church which gets surrounded. We simply do not know.

I agree whatever is happening in this passage happens after the millennium is over. Thus the "millennium" which is really the "thousand years" begins at the Cross or Pentecost, transitions for 40 years, then the millennium is in full swing from 70 AD and through today.

Then this crazy event of Rev 20 happens
Look closely at the events described in Rev 20.

We are at the end of the mill/kingdom/church period.

Restored Jerusalem is being surrounded.

------

The mill/kingdom/church period takes place between the #1 resurrection of Jesus and the OT saints in 33 ad., and the #2 resurrection of those who are His at His coming 1 Cor 15:23-24, for the kingdom Rev 11:15, Daniel 2, the stone strikes.

------

The dragon Rev 20:2, is the nation of Rome. The same as the iron in Daniel 2 and the 4th beast of Daniel 7.

First the Roman Empire, then the Roman Empire image (RCC) that continues after the fall of 476 ad. Caesar/Bishop of Rome.

The image of the chain binding the dragon beast, is the same image as the waters that were swallowed up by the earth in Rev 12:15-16. That is, Israel is in the wilderness of the gentile nations for the times of the gentiles, and cannot be destroyed by Rome. But once Israel is restored to Jerusalem 1967, then they are in one central place. It is then that the dragon beast nation false prophet (Rev 16:13-14, Caesar/Bishop of Rome) deceives the gentile nations Magog and the kings of the east Iran across the Euphrates, into attacking Israel restored to Jerusalem.

The idea that Jerusalem is spared and their enemies are destroyed is contradicted by the story of the 2W's Rev 11. The story is sweet in the mouth, but bitter when digested. Yes, Israel is restored to Jerusalem, but their enemies make merry over their deaths as their bodies lie in the streets of Jerusalem.

After the 7th trumpet this planet will be destroyed by fire when the stone strikes (We will all be gone with Jesus). The reason that this planet is destroyed is that if it were allowed to continue, then Israel would blend into the gentile nations and cease to be a unique genetic race. Israel is the salt of the earth, if the salt has lost it's flavor, what good is the planet earth?

The dragon deceives the nations the whole time of the mill, it is sin as always. The only deceiving that the dragon/Rome cannot do when bound in Rev 20 is deceive the nations Magog into surrounding restored Jerusalem. As soon as he comes out of the abyss 1929, he begins the process of killing Israel, eventually ending in the restored Jerusalem falling to the kings of the east and the gentile nations. (The process is taking place now. It may take years or months, or 10 years, I don't know the time according to the years of men, but Jesus is coming for us and He will be here after Jerusalem falls.)


and presumably a new age will begin after that.
The age that is after death.