The rapture

[Cup-of-Ruin]

You said:

Now the funny thing is, that after making a case of saying that the word Jew had different meanings, the word for Jews here who made insurrection and were enemies of Paul and Christ-haters as you claim, is also Ioudaios , not Ioudaismos. Or do you think that these Jews were rose up and assaulted Paul, were simply men from Judea and had nothing to do with the Jewish religion? Again, you have no case., and your beliefs are a jumble of contradictions and confusions.

The word Ioudaios means Judeans, as of the country of Judea! Like I am an Australian of the country Australia, does that mean my religion is Australian?

Now the 'Gentiles" are the ethnos meaning 'those of our tribe', never in all linguistic history has 'Gentile' meant 'non-jew', that is modern mythology, a jewish fable, Gentile from the Latin Gens from the Greek ethnos, I mean we know what the word means, why not study some Greek and Latin and find out yourself?

Acts 13:45

"But when the Jews saw the multitudes they were filled with envy and spoke against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming."

now go back to;

Acts 13:26-27

"Men and brethren, children of the stock (genos) of Abraham, and those among you who feareth God, to you is the word of this salvation sent. For they that dwell at Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they knew Him not (Christ said His sheep know Him), nor yet the prophets which are read every sabbath day they have fullfilled them in condemning Him."

Acts 13:32

"And we declare to you glad tidings, how that the promise which was made unto the fathers, God hath fullfilled the same unto us their children, in that He hath raised up Jesus again; as it is written 'Thou art My Son, this day I have begotten thee"

Acts 13:41

"Beware therefore, lest that come upon you, which is spoken of by the prophets; " Behold, ye despisers, and wonder, and perish: for I work a work in your days, a work which ye shall in no wise believe though a man declare it unto you."

Now that is the awesome word of God being preached by Paul and Barnabas, but how did the Jews respond;

Acts 13:45

"But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and spoke against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming."

 

[MahogonySnail]

Yes these were Jews of the faith Ioudaismos , but they still refer to themselves as Ioudaios. Can you find any example in the new testament where the Jews called themselves Ioudaismos ?

You see, it makes no sense at all to say the Jews opposed Paul simply because they were from the region of Judea. It is because of their religion that they opposed Paul. Likewise, it makes no sense for Paul to be speaking of his heritage in the sense of a geographical location - but a religion!.
Paul was very much a Jew (religion), before converting to Christianity.

 

[MahogonySnail]

Can you find any example in the new testament where the Jews called themselves Ioudaismos ?

There are only two occasions in the new testament where the word Ioudaismos is used. Guess who? Paul:


[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Ga 1:13[/FONT] [FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it: [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Ga 1:14[/FONT] [FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers. [/FONT]


Two verses there where Paul clearly said he was a part of the Jewish religion Ioudaismos.

Yet you claimed that:

Ioudaismos - the Jews religion...Paul does not use that word because he is a Christian.

These statements of yours that Paul does not use that word, are then shown to be false.

 

[Cup-of-Ruin]

There are only two occasions in the new testament where the word Ioudaismos is used. Guess who? Paul:


[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Ga 1:13[/FONT] [FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it: [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Ga 1:14[/FONT] [FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers. [/FONT]

Yes...Paul was educated as a Pharisee in Jerusalem, the "Jews" had a religion, it is called the 'tradition of the elders' it is compiled now in the Talmud, they have an interpretation of the Old Testament, they see themselves as the 'chosen people', but they are not. Christians are God's chosen people not 'jews', jews are just followers of the false religion that goes all the way back to Babylon and Nimrod.

Gal. 1:15-16

"But it pleased God, Who seperated me from my mothers womb, and called me by His grace, to reveal His Son, in me that I might preach Him among the ethnos (mistranslated 'heathen')"

Paul says that he was educated in the 'Jews' religion' and he was, he was trained as a Pharisee.

Two verses there where Paul clearly said he was a part of the Jewish religion Ioudaismos.

Yet you claimed that:

Ioudaismos - the Jews religion...Paul does not use that word because he is a Christian.

These statements of yours that Paul does not use that word, are then shown to be false.

He does not use that word in that statement, when he does use the word he merely states that he was trained in the 'jew's religion' and what religion is that? Phariseeism, well that is the same today, Phariseeism is the Jews' religion it can be traced back to Babylon, that's where it comes from, is not Babylon a mystery?

 

[Thaddaeus]

Oh dear oh dear. Why are we arguing? As christians arent we meant to be all about the love and unity? And yet when i read through this all i see is arguing, criticisms, judgments, and nit-picking. Why i wonder is it sooo impossible for christians nowadays to just simply put forth what they believe and end it at that?? Anyway, I personally believe in a post trib rapture. I believe that we as chrisitians are already in the Great Tribulation and that it will end off in a big climax where the christians are slaughtered to almost non-existance and it is at that point that we resurrect, rise up to meet Christ in the air and come down with him, where he judges the world, creates a new earth and we all live happily ever after. I get this belief from the book More Than Conquerors which does an exposition on Revelation if anyone is interested. Anyways, keep the love people, and have a blessed year. *hugs* Jayden

it is prophecised in the scriptures that the anti-christ takes the seat in the jewish temple for the duration of the great tribulation. offering peace 3.5 years, he is there before his true colors are shown, then all hell breaks lose, for the last 3.5 , so where is the jewish temple ???

as far as your solution to peace in here this is a bible discussion forum, show me in the bible where we are suppose to agree to disagree. there was a debate over circumcision in Acts, they went to a big meeting place and the bible says they all came away from the discussion in agreement, the truth must be established or else we have is false teachings all in the house of God, and I believe that Jesus, as he whipped out the money changers, for they had made the House of God into a den of thieves, would He want the house of God to became a house of lies, as it has today. I guess there are some thing that aren't as important as the salvational issues. but again this is a discussion forum, if all saw it the same way or we just said well praise God for you have twisted the scriptures and pat each other on the back, then we would not have need of a bible discusion forum. we could just continue to let others fall into the ditch with all the other blind people. yeah the flesh pops up with the name calling and all , but this is a bible discussion forum for humans that have become Christians or rather should I say that we have Christian that become human from time to time ,. some look at us wrong if you could see the compassionate spirit, that some have for the truth and the Word which is suppose to be the truth. instead of the arguementive spirit then you might understand. even though you see hatred and name calling it is love on both sides to lead people into the true light, and through scripture this could be acheived for most. look at how many come in here and say I have always heard this about what the bible says about this is it true. then someone shows them scriptures and the truth is revealed. then they know what scriptures says if we take what the scripteurs says , and not say well this is what it says but this is what it really means.
Ga 2:11But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the FACE, because he was to be blamed.

 

[leendert]

it is prophecised in the scriptures that the anti-christ takes the seat in the jewish temple for the duration of the great tribulation. offering peace 3.5 years, he is there before his true colors are shown, then all hell breaks lose, for the last 3.5

if somebody could show me the scripture that shows that the antichrist will take seat in a Jewish temple and this 7 year period. I would be gratefull to learn more about that

 

[BLU]

it is prophecised in the scriptures that the anti-christ takes the seat in the jewish temple for the duration of the great tribulation. offering peace 3.5 years, he is there before his true colors are shown, then all hell breaks lose, for the last 3.5

if somebody could show me the scripture that shows that the antichrist will take seat in a Jewish temple and this 7 year period. I would be gratefull to learn more about that

Actually, The temple of God is a Christian temple, but at the same time it is Jewish temple. (Rev 2:9) I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and [I know] the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but [are] the synagogue of Satan.
Christians are also referred to as Jews, but the saved ones even though we are gentiles. Christ is the promise given to the Jews and we are all jerusalem. (Rev 3:12) Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, [which is] new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and [I will write upon him] my new name.
But you may be alluding to 2 Thess: (2Thes 2:4) Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

One more thing, the tribulation is 23 years period as mentioned by Daniel.

 

[Cup-of-Ruin]

Actually, The temple of God is a Christian temple, but at the same time it is Jewish temple. (Rev 2:9) I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and [I know] the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but [are] the synagogue of Satan.
Christians are also referred to as Jews, but the saved ones even though we are gentiles. Christ is the promise given to the Jews and we are all jerusalem. (Rev 3:12) Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, [which is] new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and [I will write upon him] my new name.
But you may be alluding to 2 Thess: (2Thes 2:4) Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

One more thing, the tribulation is 23 years period as mentioned by Daniel.

I think you are confused, if you study what I have said, and I have gone to great lengths to let this be known, the word "Jew" is 200 years old, do you understand that? the Biblical Greek word Ioudiaos means a Judean in a geographical sense i.e. a country. It does not mean religious affiliation although it has connotations of such and it does not mean descended from the tribe of Judah and in no way has it ever meant Israel, that is impossible, for beginners - God has seperated the House of Judah and the House of Israel and He distinguishes between them, they are not one and the same, that is impossible.

But now consider when Jesus says Ioudiaos He use the word because it refers to a people, any people no matter what colour or creed or race or family or religious affiliation whom call themselves "jews" they lie and are the Synagogue of Satan! So they are not what they say they are, they are liars and they call themselves Judeans- and lay claim to the centre of the earth which is the great city of Jerusalem. But these people have no right to that claim because it is Christians whom are God's Isarel - Israel are a people not a geographical location, God's chosen people are Israel and all of Israel and the House of Judah became Christian, they were God's sheep and they were saved, "Gentile" comes from latin and refers to Israel - it means 'all those of a like kind, of high noble birth', now Satan has fiddled some new modern books, but anybody with historical sense can find the true meaning of the word "Gentile", Jesus came from - "Galilee of the Gentiles", Galilee was literally called the place of Gentiles!

 

[Thaddaeus]

it is prophecised in the scriptures that the anti-christ takes the seat in the jewish temple for the duration of the great tribulation. offering peace 3.5 years, he is there before his true colors are shown, then all hell breaks lose, for the last 3.5

if somebody could show me the scripture that shows that the antichrist will take seat in a Jewish temple and this 7 year period. I would be gratefull to learn more about that

there are so many verses we would have to cover but if you do a study on the seventy weeks that Daniel talked about, the last week is referred to by many as the tribulation period.

 

[leendert]

there are so many verses we would have to cover but if you do a study on the seventy weeks that Daniel talked about, the last week is referred to by many as the tribulation period.

Daniel is such a wonderfull book and proper study of it can clear up a lot of things.The prophecy in question can be found in Daniel 9
Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
Dan 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
The command to rebuild Jerusalem can be found in Ezra 7:1to 27.That was in the year 457 bc.The profhecy is over a period of seventy prophetic weeks or 490 literal years.The last week is of some importance. The 69 weeks ends in 27 ad with the baptisim of Jesus.In the middle of the last week 31 ad Jesus is crucified(causing sacrifices to cease)At the end of this week 34ad stephen got stoned.This ended the seventy weeks and by rejecting Jesus the gospel went to the gentiles.
Another thing i find puzzeling is, if the 69th week ended in 27 ad then how can we push thousands of weeks into the gap between 69 and 70 and still call the last week the 70th week. I may as well say that between cape town and cairo its a distance of a 100 miles. Lets just leave out the fact that between mile 99 and 100 there are a couple of thousand miles.

 

[MahogonySnail]

profhecy is over a period of seventy prophetic weeks or 490 literal years.

Whenever we see numbers like 49, or 490 (multiple of 10 of 49, and multiples of 7 ), they are symbolic. So far in prophetic history, none of the prophetic events which have come to pass have occurred exactly on 490 years. It might take 530 years, and this is rounded to 490 for symbolic purposes. We have to keep this in mind when we do the math. The numbers won't match up perfectly, and if we account for that we won't get confused or puzzled about why the numbers don't add up!

 

[BLU]

I think you are confused, if you study what I have said, and I have gone to great lengths to let this be known, the word "Jew" is 200 years old, do you understand that? the Biblical Greek word Ioudiaos means a Judean in a geographical sense i.e. a country. It does not mean religious affiliation although it has connotations of such and it does not mean descended from the tribe of Judah and in no way has it ever meant Israel, that is impossible, for beginners - God has seperated the House of Judah and the House of Israel and He distinguishes between them, they are not one and the same, that is impossible.

But now consider when Jesus says Ioudiaos He use the word because it refers to a people, any people no matter what colour or creed or race or family or religious affiliation whom call themselves "jews" they lie and are the Synagogue of Satan! So they are not what they say they are, they are liars and they call themselves Judeans- and lay claim to the centre of the earth which is the great city of Jerusalem. But these people have no right to that claim because it is Christians whom are God's Isarel - Israel are a people not a geographical location, God's chosen people are Israel and all of Israel and the House of Judah became Christian, they were God's sheep and they were saved, "Gentile" comes from latin and refers to Israel - it means 'all those of a like kind, of high noble birth', now Satan has fiddled some new modern books, but anybody with historical sense can find the true meaning of the word "Gentile", Jesus came from - "Galilee of the Gentiles", Galilee was literally called the place of Gentiles!

You sound like you need to do some more research talking about things you do not have any knowledge, Did you just make these things up off the top of your head?

Impossible to say the word Jew is 200 years old when God used the word in the book of revelations nearly 2000 years ago, All the house of judea did not become Christian and you can not show biblical references to prove it either Gentile is anyone that is not of the house of God, any nation and all nations of the earth are gentiles.

 

[BLU]

You sound like you need to do some more research talking about things you do not have any knowledge, Did you just make these things up off the top of your head?

Impossible to say the word Jew is 200 years old when God used the word in the book of revelations nearly 2000 years ago, All the house of judea did not become Christian and you can not show biblical references to prove it either Gentile is anyone that is not of the house of God, any nation and all nations of the earth are gentiles.

A jew is a son of God!
(Rom 2:28) For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither [is that] circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
(Rom 2:29) But he [is] a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision [is that] of the heart, in the spirit, [and] not in the letter; whose praise [is] not of men, but of God.

 

[Lad]

Agreed, the truth needs to be put out there and discussed. However all I ask is that before you type, you think about what your about to put and change it according to the words and motives Christ would have.

 

[Cup-of-Ruin]

You sound like you need to do some more research talking about things you do not have any knowledge, Did you just make these things up off the top of your head?

No, my knowledge has been passed down through the ages.

Impossible to say the word Jew is 200 years old when God used the word in the book of revelations nearly 2000 years ago,

All the house of judea did not become Christian and you can not show biblical references to prove it either

Hebrews. 8:7-13

that's the New Covenant, written two thousands years ago as prophecised by Jeremiah, it was done as soon as Jesus' blood hit the ground, and confirmed in the book of Hebrews.

Gentile is anyone that is not of the house of God, any nation and all nations of the earth are gentiles.

You have no concept of the word 'Gentile' I have explained to you what it means, if you do not heed it that is your problem. Jesus was from 'Galilee of the Gentiles', gentiles is the word ethnos, you have no linguistic knowledge, but it is time you learned, as God desires it so, and He will make it known, now...

 

[BLU]

No, my knowledge has been passed down through the ages.






Hebrews. 8:7-13

that's the New Covenant, written two thousands years ago as prophecised by Jeremiah, it was done as soon as Jesus' blood hit the ground, and confirmed in the book of Hebrews.




You have no concept of the word 'Gentile' I have explained to you what it means, if you do not heed it that is your problem. Jesus was from 'Galilee of the Gentiles', gentiles is the word ethnos, you have no linguistic knowledge, but it is time you learned, as God desires it so, and He will make it known, now...

Think again! Written right after the flood, nearly 7000 ago.
(Gen 10:5) By these were the isles of the Gentiles divided in their lands; every one after his tongue, after their families, in their nations.
(Gen 10:6) And the sons of Ham; Cush, and Mizraim, and Phut, and Canaan.

As far as this thread is concerned it is asking about pre and post milleneum, of which there is neither.

(Mt 24:29) Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Then shall the rapture take place on that day, and as well it will be judgement day for the following 5 months of which there will be no more salvation available to the world.

 

[leendert]

Whenever we see numbers like 49, or 490 (multiple of 10 of 49, and multiples of 7 ), they are symbolic. So far in prophetic history, none of the prophetic events which have come to pass have occurred exactly on 490 years. It might take 530 years, and this is rounded to 490 for symbolic purposes. We have to keep this in mind when we do the math. The numbers won't match up perfectly, and if we account for that we won't get confused or puzzled about why the numbers don't add up!

Well with the 70 weeks of Daniel it is bang on the money.Its history that confirms the bible.The last week of Daniel is a prophecy that points to Jesus not the antichrist.

 

[leendert]

If God says 490 years it has to be 490 years . If it does not add up for you that means you are wrong not God.Here is another example
Dan 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

Talking here about the little horn or the antichrist power.The time period mentioned here is 1260 years.Most poeple agree on that.I know the antichrist power to be the papacy.Look at this amazing coincidence.The papacy was officially accepted in the year 538 ad with the justinian decree.This gave the papacy political and eclestiastical power.This combined state and religion and what followed was the darkest period in history.This all ended and this beast got its mortal wound in 1798 when the then pope got taken captive by napoleon,s general berthiere. He died in exile.If you do the maths you will get 1260 years of papal rule .And by the way the deadly wound healed in 1929 when the italian goverment again recognized the vatican as a independent state.The san fransisco chronicle published a article on the front page it read as follows...'Mussolini and Gaspari Sign Historic Pact . . . Heal Wound of Many Years.'

 

[Cup-of-Ruin]

Think again! Written right after the flood, nearly 7000 ago.
(Gen 10:5) By these were the isles of the Gentiles divided in their lands; every one after his tongue, after their families, in their nations.
(Gen 10:6) And the sons of Ham; Cush, and Mizraim, and Phut, and Canaan.

I realize it is difficult because you cannot understand Hebrew or Greek, but you can find concordances online that are very user friendly, it should not take you very long to find out that the translated word 'gentiles' is Gen. 10:5 the same word that is used in Gen. 25:23 "Two nations (Goyim) are in thy womb", in the Masoretic Hebrew Goyim is translated - nations, peoples, heathen. Jacob was a Goyim - meaning nation, just as Esau was Goyim, it is exactly the same word, but it is not the same as the NT Creek ethnos, different meaning, but sometimes translated the same. Jesus was from Galilee of the Gentiles.

So Gen:5 is translated literally;

"Such were the sons of Japeth according to their lands, languages, and national families."

See it is your false interpretation that is in error not the Bible. This is a very common modern mistake.

 

[MahogonySnail]

If God says 490 years it is not 490 years exactly, that is prophetic symbolism. Same with 70 years, another multiple of 7, get the picture?

We need to understand that prophecy is not literal numbers shrouded in symbolic imagery, it includes symbolic numbers as well. Historically speaking, the numbers do not add up to 490 years exactly. And there's no way to force them to add up.