The rapture

[Cup-of-Ruin]

Don't you know that simple logic and rational thinking is EVIL? I've read it on the homepage saying that Obama is an Alien from Mars!

I have to agree with Snail. It would make no sense to distinguish between Israelites and Jews. All of the 12 apostles were Jewish, even Jesus Christ was a Jew. Very simplified, a Christian is a Jew who accepts Jesus as his savior.

No that is incorrect.

It is quite clear that you are an anti-christ, you are not alone, there are literally billions like you.

 

[MahogonySnail]

It's a geographical location, paul is stating his address, just like I am from Melbourne, Australia, that has nothing to do with my race or what tribe I am from. You can see that word means 'Judean', it simply means a subject of Judea, that is not actually a Yehuwdiy it is merely a person who resides in the state of Judea, Paul could have been a Canaanite or a Persian or an Egyptian and still have been a Judean, but he was a Benjamite.

Nice try, but Paul says he was born in Tarsus, in Cilicia, not Judea. 'Paul of Tarsus". Right after he says he was a Jew.

In fact, Paul says that being a Jew was a good thing:
Rom 3:1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit isthere of circumcision?
Rom 3:2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.

Paul referred to himself as Jewish, even while he was preaching to Gentiles. He doesn't seem ashamed of his heritage as a Jew, but is rather proud of it and used it in his testimonies to others.

Jesus Christ was not a "jew" that is a false charge against Him. Pilate thought He was a "Jew" and that was the charge against Him, you also find Him guilty and that is something you will have to deal with on your Judgement Day.

Jesus was a Jew, and that is basically elementary knowledge about Christ. I wonder if you know about the real Jesus , a non-Jewish Jesus is not the real Jesus but another Jesus. I hope you follow the right one, it seems not.

 

[MahogonySnail]

In order to come to the Jews, Jesus also had to become a Jew. He spoke Aramaic like the Jews. He frequented Jewish synagogues, he was raised up in Judaism. There's nothing too hard to understand about Jesus's Jewishness.

Paul also said he was a Jew by birth:

Gal 2:15 We Jews by nature, and not sinners of the nations,

Yet Paul was born in Tarsus. So him referring to himself as Jewish, cannot refer to geographic location of Judea, but his former religion.

 

[Cup-of-Ruin]

Nice try, but Paul says he was born in Tarsus, in Cilicia, not Judea. 'Paul of Tarsus". Right after he says he was a Jew.

Born in Tarsus makes him Roman by citizenship, Tarsus was a Roman province, that is where he was born, and Paul states that he is a Roman, but he lived in Jerusalem and studied there for much of his life, which made him also being a Pharisee, - a Judean. He was in Jerusalem at the time of the trial!

Acts. 22:3

"I am a man which is a Judean (remember the word "Jew" is only 200 years old) and I was born in Tarsus which is a city in Cilicia yet I was brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaleil."

OK 'Snail, see how Paul make the point of city and Judean, because that city is Jerusalem in Judea, a resident of Jerusalem was by law named a Judean, but as Paul stated he was from the Tribe of Benjiman and was also a Roman, and also a Judean, which basically means 'subject of the land of Judea', now you could be Egyptian, you could be Ethiopian, you could be a Canaanite or an Edomite or a Persian and you could at the same time be by law a "Jew" or a Judean!

In fact, Paul says that being a Jew was a good thing:
Rom 3:1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit isthere of circumcision?
Rom 3:2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.

Paul referred to himself as Jewish, even while he was preaching to Gentiles. He doesn't seem ashamed of his heritage as a Jew, but is rather proud of it and used it in his testimonies to others.

"Judahite", the kingdom or house of Judah included Benjamin, the word Ioudaios is being used by Paul in his letter to the Romans to seperate Judah from Israel who are the ethnos which means in Greek 'of the same clan', the House of Judah and the House of Israel are differentiated by God, in fact Israel had been divorced by God, but reunited with Him - saved by Him - Christ as per Hebrews 8:8-12.

So Paul says (remembering that the modern word 'Jew' is only 200 years old'; "What advantage hath the men of the House of Judah now? what profit is their in circumcision?" Because Jesus came only to save the lost sheep of Israel, who were lost the "Gentiles of Gallilee" "Gentile" means of high noble birth of the same clan. Gentile means the lost sheep of Israel whom were divorced by God.

Jesus was a Jew, and that is basically elementary knowledge about Christ. I wonder if you know about the real Jesus , a non-Jewish Jesus is not the real Jesus but another Jesus. I hope you follow the right one, it seems not.

That is an accusation against Christ, Pilate thought He was a "Jew" and he was tried as one, was He not innocent? Yes He was innocent, so therefore He cannot be a "Jew", He is however of the House of Judah but that is entirely different ...

 

[Cup-of-Ruin]

In order to come to the Jews, Jesus also had to become a Jew. He spoke Aramaic like the Jews. He frequented Jewish synagogues, he was raised up in Judaism. There's nothing too hard to understand about Jesus's Jewishness.

Jesus spoke Greek primarily as did all the Apostles, He could speak Aramaic if He wanted to, He is God, He can speak any language. Aramaic is derived from Chaldee and Imperial Babylonian, it is in fact older than the Masoretic Hebrew that the Jewish scribes invented when they crossed Aramiac with Phoenician to aquire the Herodian Script.

Paul also said he was a Jew by birth:

Gal 2:15 We Jews by nature, and not sinners of the nations,

Yet Paul was born in Tarsus. So him referring to himself as Jewish, cannot refer to geographic location of Judea, but his former religion.

No Paul was Roman by birth, a Hebrew of Israelite stock of the tribe of Benjamin. He was trained as a Pharisee and he had lived most of his life in Jerusalem in Judea, at the time Judea was controlled by the Edomite Herodian Jews/Judeans - that word has been translated "Jew" in the last 200 years or so, so Paul being a resident of Judea was a Judean, by geographical location a 'subject of Judea'...Understand 'Snail?

 

[trudy]

Show us scripture for your beliefs. Good luck.

sure I put it in several post.

1. thes 4:13

The Hope of the Resurrection

13 And now, dear brothers and sisters, we want you to know what will happen to the believers who have died[f] so you will not grieve like people who have no hope. 14 For since we believe that Jesus died and was raised to life again, we also believe that when Jesus returns, God will bring back with him the believers who have died.
15 We tell you this directly from the Lord: We who are still living when the Lord returns will not meet him ahead of those who have died.[g] 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven with a commanding shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet call of God. First, the Christians who have died[h] will rise from their graves. 17 Then, together with them, we who are still alive and remain on the earth will be caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. Then we will be with the Lord forever.

 

[trudy]

His Coming Will Be Audible
"For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord." 1 Thessalonians 4:16, 17.
"The Lord shall roar from on high, and utter his voice from his holy habitation; he shall mightily roar upon his habitation; he shall give a shout." Jeremiah 25:30.
"Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him." Psalm 50:3.
Christ's second coming will be loud! There will be shouts and trumpets and all kinds of noise. No one will accidentally miss it or be able to read about it in the newspaper the next day.
His Coming Will Be Emotional
"Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory." Luke 21:26, 27.
"And it shall be said in that day, Lo, this is our God; we have waited for him, and he will save us: this is the Lord; we have waited for him, we will be glad and rejoice in his salvation." Isaiah 25:9.
When Christ returns, it will be an emotional day for the wicked and righteous alike. The lost will experience indescribable fear and anguish, while the saved will experience the perfect joy of eternal salvation.
His Coming Will Open the Graves
"And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day." John 6:40.
"For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming." 1 Corinthians 15:22, 23.
"For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord." 1 Thessalonians 4:16, 17.
This is the Bible's description of the rapture. The dead in Christ will rise by His power and will meet Him in the air. Afterward the faithful who are still alive will also be caught up. It will not be a secret!
His Coming Will Destroy the Earth
"The earth is utterly broken down, the earth is clean dissolved, the earth is moved exceedingly. The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again." Isaiah 24:19, 20.
"And the heaven [sky] departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places." Revelation 6:14.
"And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great. And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath. And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found." Revelation 16:18-20.
This world will be uninhabitable by people after Christ comes. His coming will shake the very foundations of the earth.
His Coming Will Mean Final Judgment
"For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works." Matthew 16:27.
"And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be." Revelation 22:12. It is at Christ's return that we will receive our final reward. Each person's decision will have already been made; there will be no second chance to convert. The time to make a decision to follow Christ is now!

 

[trudy]

I cannot claim this as my teachings I learned this from watching the Amazing Facts. on TV and I go to their website and I have learned all these truths since Feb, It has changed my life and I am no longer afraid or lost. I encourage anyone that is really truly seeking God and answers to get your bibles and go on the website and study out everything you can. It will change your life. yes I did eventually found myself going to service on Saturday and amazing as that was it was so easy for me. and my family. once you learn the truth you must act on it.

 

[MahogonySnail]

Born in Tarsus makes him Roman by citizenship, Tarsus was a Roman province, that is where he was born, and Paul states that he is a Roman, but he lived in Jerusalem and studied there for much of his life, which made him also being a Pharisee, - a Judean. He was in Jerusalem at the time of the trial!

Precisely my point, Paul did not call himself a Jew because he was a Judean, he was not born a Judean but still said he was a Jew from birth as he was raised in Jewish religion by his Jewish parents. Paul's reference to being Jewish must have been referring to his religion, not his geographical location. Your arguments are disproven.

 

[Cup-of-Ruin]

Precisely my point, Paul did not call himself a Jew because he was a Judean, he was not born a Judean but still said he was a Jew from birth as he was raised in Jewish religion by his Jewish parents. Paul's reference to being Jewish must have been referring to his religion, not his geographical location. Your arguments are disproven.

Ahhh, now 'Snail, Paul was a Christian by religion when he spoke those words, he had been saved by Christ, converted and under blood covenant as a Hebrew of the House of Judah, so he cannot be referring to his religion, that is imposibble, you cannot be a 'jew' is you are saved by Christ, otherwise the entire New Testament and the cross and the death and ressurrection of Christ all count for nothing! Paul directly says after that he lived in the city of Jerusalem, which makes him a Judean, as a resident of Judea born in Tarsus! I have two passports you know, I hold dual citizenships, alot of people do, you can be born in one place but a resident of another, whats so hard to understand about that? The Pharisees were jewish and Paul was trained as a pharisee and resided in jerusalem, he was both a subject of the land of Judea plus a Roman citizen, most of the Romans were Hebrews, in fact their ruling families descended from the tribe of Judah, as the Tribe of Judah had settled Troy and then the Trojans settled Italy and much of the Mediterranean, the Island where my father is from is in the Adriatic and it was settled by two Trojans, after the fall of Troy, in the town of Korcula you can find the people who trace their lineages back to the Greeks, just like in Rome, eventually they trace all the way back to Abraham and Eber.

 

[MahogonySnail]

Yet Paul referred to Himself as a Jew on a number of occasions in the new testament after being saved;

Act 22:3 I am truly a man, a Jew born in Tarsus in Cilicia, yet brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, taught according to the exactness of the Law of the fathers, being a zealous one of God, as you all are today.
Acts 22:3 shows clearly how he was brought up in the Jewish religion, and not merely called Jewish because he happened to live in Judea.

When Paul says he was a Jew, he was not appealing to his geographic dwelling, but to His knowledge of Jewish religion and his upbringing and training in that religion.

Paul was a Jew who came to believe in Jesus. Same with Apollos (Acts 18:24) and many others.

Aquila for example, who was a Jew living in Rome, born in Pontus, clearly shows his Jewishness referred to his religion, not to his geographical location. He was a Jew in Rome, and was a Jew in Corinth, so Jew must mean his religion not merely a subject of Judea.
Act 18:2 And finding a certain Jew named Aquila, born in Pontus, lately come from Italy with his wife Priscilla (because Claudius had commanded all Jews to depart from Rome) Paul came to them.


Simple!


Your attempt to confine the word "Jew" to mean purely a geographical location of Judea has fallen flat.

 

[Cup-of-Ruin]

Yet Paul referred to Himself as a Jew on a number of occasions in the new testament after being saved;

Act 22:3 I am truly a man, a Jew born in Tarsus in Cilicia, yet brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, taught according to the exactness of the Law of the fathers, being a zealous one of God, as you all are today.
Acts 22:3 shows clearly how he was brought up in the Jewish religion, and not merely called Jewish because he happened to live in Judea.

When Paul says he was a Jew, he was not appealing to his geographic dwelling, but to His knowledge of Jewish religion and his upbringing and training in that religion.

Paul was a Jew who came to believe in Jesus. Same with Apollos (Acts 18:24) and many others.

Aquila for example, who was a Jew living in Rome, born in Pontus, clearly shows his Jewishness referred to his religion, not to his geographical location. He was a Jew in Rome, and was a Jew in Corinth, so Jew must mean his religion not merely a subject of Judea.
Act 18:2 And finding a certain Jew named Aquila, born in Pontus, lately come from Italy with his wife Priscilla (because Claudius had commanded all Jews to depart from Rome) Paul came to them.


Simple!


Your attempt to confine the word "Jew" to mean purely a geographical location of Judea has fallen flat.

I have already answered, is it neccessary for me to repeat myself? The word Ioudaios means Judean relating to the land, country in the sense of geographical location, that is the actual Koine Greek defintion of the word, it literally means Judean in the sense of the country i.e. Judea! Judaism is a different word; Ioudaismos - the Jews religion...Paul does not use that word because he is a Christian.

I don't know how much clear I can make this for you 'Snail, but then again I am not doing this for you, but that there are one or two on the sideline who will listen to what I say, or rather the spirit will testify to them.

 

[Cup-of-Ruin]

Act 18:2 And finding a certain Jew named Aquila, born in Pontus, lately come from Italy with his wife Priscilla (because Claudius had commanded all Jews to depart from Rome) Paul came to them.


Simple!


Your attempt to confine the word "Jew" to mean purely a geographical location of Judea has fallen flat.

Oh, this is a good one 'Snail, just when I think you cannot creep any lower, you quote this.

Paul came to them and stayed with these "Jews" who had been kicked out of Rome, they were fellow tentmakers, see the Jews were getting expelled from Rome at that time because they had been causing trouble again.

Acts 18:5 "Paul was pressed with the Spirit and testified to the Jews that Jesus was the Christ. And they opposed him and they blasphemed."

OK so Paul goes and stays with these "Jews" who had been expelled from Rome and he testifies that Christ is Lord, and of course the "Jews" being actual Jews opposed him and blasphemed.

"Your blood be upon your own heads, I am clean: from henseforth I will go unto the ethnos "(Gentiles- means in Greek 'my own people', that's right ethnos means those of the same tribe or clan)

Now Crispus converted so he must of been a Israelite sheep, and the Corinithian Greeks converted because they were of His sheep, but the Jews blasphemed against God and His Christ and oppossed Paul.

"The Jews made insurrection (rose up against and assualted) with one accord against Paul and brought him to the judgement seat."

Jews were opposed to Christians as they were opposed to Christ as they are opposed to Paul as they are opposed to true Christians today, Jews are by their very own definition Christ haters and Christ killers!!! Simple!

 

[Thaddaeus]

I have already answered, is it neccessary for me to repeat myself? The word Ioudaios means Judean relating to the land, country in the sense of geographical location, that is the actual Koine Greek defintion of the word, it literally means Judean in the sense of the country i.e. Judea! Judaism is a different word; Ioudaismos - the Jews religion...Paul does not use that word because he is a Christian.

I don't know how much clear I can make this for you 'Snail, but then again I am not doing this for you, but that there are one or two on the sideline who will listen to what I say, or rather the spirit will testify to them.

snail, He is right and the scriptures are wrong according to cup of ruin, that is. I showed him over in erza where the jews were Israel. He has to turn the scriptures to say what he wants it to say.

 

[SwordOfFire]

Oh, this is a good one 'Snail, just when I think you cannot creep any lower, you quote this.

Paul came to them and stayed with these "Jews" who had been kicked out of Rome, they were fellow tentmakers, see the Jews were getting expelled from Rome at that time because they had been causing trouble again.

Acts 18:5 "Paul was pressed with the Spirit and testified to the Jews that Jesus was the Christ. And they opposed him and they blasphemed."

OK so Paul goes and stays with these "Jews" who had been expelled from Rome and he testifies that Christ is Lord, and of course the "Jews" being actual Jews opposed him and blasphemed.

"Your blood be upon your own heads, I am clean: from henseforth I will go unto the ethnos "(Gentiles- means in Greek 'my own people', that's right ethnos means those of the same tribe or clan)

Now Crispus converted so he must of been a Israelite sheep, and the Corinithian Greeks converted because they were of His sheep, but the Jews blasphemed against God and His Christ and oppossed Paul.

"The Jews made insurrection (rose up against and assualted) with one accord against Paul and brought him to the judgement seat."

Jews were opposed to Christians as they were opposed to Christ as they are opposed to Paul as they are opposed to true Christians today, Jews are by their very own definition Christ haters and Christ killers!!! Simple!

You are a very hateful person. Cup of Ruin is a name that suits you. You sound like one of those biblical identity people who are racists and antisemitic. You quote tons of scripture, that is all twisted, and all you do is rant and rave and spew hate. Read 1 John.

 

[Cup-of-Ruin]

snail, He is right and the scriptures are wrong according to cup of ruin, that is. I showed him over in erza where the jews were Israel. He has to turn the scriptures to say what he wants it to say.

Israel are a people, the house and kindom of Israel are the ten tribes, Judah and Benjamin are the House of Judah. The word "Jew" is only 200 years old, you don't understand the etymological history of the word, neither do you have any knowledge of Biblical languages, so that is why you are totally confused, can you imagine how ridiculous you must sound to someone who read Koine Greek! To say that Ioudaios means Israel is ridiculous, Israel are seperated and distinguished from Judah for beginners, but Ioudaios is different from the OT Chaldee Yehuwdiy whom are introduced in II Kings as being Edomites fighting against Israel, I mean to say that Isarel is "Jew" or Yehuwdiy is just completely absurd.

 

[Cup-of-Ruin]

You are a very hateful person. Cup of Ruin is a name that suits you. You sound like one of those biblical identity people who are racists and antisemitic. You quote tons of scripture, that is all twisted, and all you do is rant and rave and spew hate. Read 1 John.

Do you have any scripture to add to the debate or would you just prefer to throw personal insults. What is twisted is your mind, the scripture I quote is just scripture, it is just the word, that is why I quote it.

 

[MahogonySnail]

You said:

The word Ioudaios means Judean relating to the land, country in the sense of geographical location, that is the actual Koine Greek defintion of the word, it literally means Judean in the sense of the country i.e. Judea! Judaism is a different word; Ioudaismos - the Jews religion...Paul does not use that word because he is a Christian.

"The Jews made insurrection (rose up against and assualted) with one accord against Paul and brought him to the judgement seat."

Now the funny thing is, that after making a case of saying that the word Jew had different meanings, the word for Jews here who made insurrection and were enemies of Paul and Christ-haters as you claim, is also Ioudaios , not Ioudaismos. Or do you think that these Jews were rose up and assaulted Paul, were simply men from Judea and had nothing to do with the Jewish religion? Again, you have no case., and your beliefs are a jumble of contradictions and confusions.

 

[SwordOfFire]

Do you have any scripture to add to the debate or would you just prefer to throw personal insults. What is twisted is your mind, the scripture I quote is just scripture, it is just the word, that is why I quote it.

I add the whole book of 1 John.

 

[Lad]

Oh dear oh dear. Why are we arguing? As christians arent we meant to be all about the love and unity? And yet when i read through this all i see is arguing, criticisms, judgments, and nit-picking. Why i wonder is it sooo impossible for christians nowadays to just simply put forth what they believe and end it at that?? Anyway, I personally believe in a post trib rapture. I believe that we as chrisitians are already in the Great Tribulation and that it will end off in a big climax where the christians are slaughtered to almost non-existance and it is at that point that we resurrect, rise up to meet Christ in the air and come down with him, where he judges the world, creates a new earth and we all live happily ever after. I get this belief from the book More Than Conquerors which does an exposition on Revelation if anyone is interested. Anyways, keep the love people, and have a blessed year. *hugs* Jayden