The reason for conflicting dogmas.

[Nehemiah6]

Satan will not deceive the entire populous of this planet. Ever.

Now here's a comment which cannot possibly be defended. Please note:

And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. (Rev 13:7,8)

Technically, those who refuse to worship the Beast and his image will be martyred -- beheaded and killed (Rev 20:4), therefore the whole world will in fact be deceived by Satan and the Beast for 3 1/2 years (Rev 13:5).

 

[joaniemarie]

As everyone here is probably aware, there probably aren't two people who agree totally on what everything is in reference to.
The reason for this according to Revelation 12:9 is that the Devil is currently deceiving the whole world. This includes you, me and everyone.
According to 2 Corinthians 11:14, how the devil deceives everyone (including the faithful currently), is by masquerading as true illumination from the Lord, when in reality Satan is providing us with false illumination, aka lies.
This is why we on this forum and other Christian forums have numerous conflicting opinions on what scriptures represent.
Those of us who study the Word sparsely will in all likelihood be those with the most misconceptions, who make excuses for conflicting scriptures that contradict their dogmas, while not realizing those excuses coming from the great deceiver.
On the other hand, those who study Gods Word more frequently and do not make excuses for scriptures that seem to conflict with their perspective of scripture are less deceived by Satan's false illumination.

Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

2 Corinthians 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

I agree with much of what you say here. Since we are all still in this "earth suit" we are still GREATLY influenced by many things that need yet to be discarded. Things we still wrongly hold on to that we no longer have need of anymore. None of us have arrived yet. I've found it to be true that the more we expose our eyes and ears and minds to the Bible and the teaching of it in and through the Holy Spirit the more able we are to dump our old manner of living and put on the new manner of life in the Spirit.

We are now born again and our born again man is who we really are. Our old man is dead and gone but the memory of him is still in us like a bell that once rang over and over in our heads for days on end but is now stopped and is gone., we still hear the echo of the reverberations. But the "bell" itself is gone-gone-gone.

Now we are admonished over and over in the Bible to walk out our new man by faith. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. Not just on Sunday and Wednesdays. But when we get up in the morning., when we listen to music., when we go about our day it should be done as the Spirit and the Bible is before us.
The truth is always learned best in the day to day of our lives while we do the dishes and love our families we can do it by our new man and it's even better than it ever was!

Today we have CDs., DVDs.,, internet.... CC.,,, to add to our Church life of hearing the preaching and teaching of the Word and the fellowship of the saints on Sunday mornings and evenings and mid week and holidays etc... etc.... If we don't make a point of this exposure being our mission in life., we won't know much except about how we think and feel. What we "feel and think" has been effected by our old manner of life. We need to walk in the Spirit so we don't fulfill the lusts of the earth suit. (sort of speak)

The Bible says and you shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free. But if we don't hear the truth and learn the truth every day and believe it since there is no end to the truth found in the Spirit of life., we won't grow.

Typing here on CC is more therapy than anything else. These things are 100% a need I have and typing them out is like a prayer. The reiterating of these truths equips me to go out to work this evening. The early morning fellowship in prayer with 3 other Christians before Sunday school was awesome and although it was amazing it's the things we keep remembering to take with us and hear again and again that cause all of it to solidify in us making us strong in the faith to keep going. One dose isn't enough to change our old manner of living.
The Bible and fellowship and prayer and praying doesn't get downloaded into our brains unfortunately. It takes an action to walk this earthsuit to places it needs to go.

 

[preacher4truth]

Do you not see how this claim of yours denies Gods Word in Revelation 12:9 which clearly states Satan is the deceiver of the whole world?
How can you say you have faith in the Word while at the same time denying the Word?

I explained the biblical position to you on that here:

Louis,

Thanks for the post. We ought to be in the Word consistently and often so as to "so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes;" Ephesians 4:14.

Contextually, this is why we have pastors and teachers; Ephesians 4:11.

As we can see, humans play a major part in deceiving others with false doctrine. Even on forums we have those who are Judaizers, those with Hebrew Roots false doctrines, those maintaining salvation (so they teach) &c attempting, all of whom are attempting to impede our sole trust in Christ.

All cults share this same objective as well as all false teachers; the bottom line is they detract from Christ, detract and subtract his work, even though at the same time they say they are not doing this, it is exactly what they are teaching. Of course there are more cultic groups so no need to get exhaustive other than to point out the objective of all false teachers, that is, their "bottom line."

As far as Satan deceiving the whole world, yes I agree, yet, no, this does not mean each and every person who has lived, nor does it mean each and every person alive at that period. He will deceive the vast majority of persons in every nation across the globe. That is the meaning.

It appears impossible to deceive the elect; Matthew 24:24. So, that being said, contextually from your shared passage in Revelation, there will be some who are not deceived by him, that is, God's elect. He will always have and preserve his remnant.

God bless.

You agreed with it here:

I agree with you that the false Messiahs (like Hitler was to Germany) will not be able to deceive the elect.
Those false Messiahs and prophets, along with the beasts system are meant for the faithless world.
Satan will nevertheless through the beast contend/war with the saints, and shall overcome them for a while (Revelation 13:7).

God bless too, preacher for truth.

Revelation 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

And now you're talking out both sides of your mouth.

 

[louis]

I didn't realize this was an OSAS discussion. I was just referring to the clear statements by God that we the believers are no longer part of the world.

Do you work for mammon/money? If you are like the apostles who carried no purse, or you are one of those from the travailing woman in Micah 5:7 who neither works for man, nor waits for some sort of recompense from man; then I guess you are not part of the world.
So if you do work for money/mammon, then you as I are double minded, currently placing our faith in both God and Mammon.

Micah 5:7 [FONT=&quot]And the remnant of Jacob shall be in the midst of many people as a dew from the [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Lord[/FONT][FONT=&quot], as the showers upon the grass, that tarrieth not for man, nor waiteth for the sons of men.[/FONT]

 

[Limey410v2]

Do you work for mammon/money? If you are like the apostles who carried no purse, or you are one of those from the travailing woman in Micah 5:7 who neither works for man, nor waits for some sort of recompense from man; then I guess you are not part of the world.
So if you do work for money/mammon, then you as I are double minded, currently placing our faith in both God and Mammon.

Micah 5:7 [FONT=&quot]And the remnant of Jacob shall be in the midst of many people as a dew from the [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Lord[/FONT][FONT=&quot], as the showers upon the grass, that tarrieth not for man, nor waiteth for the sons of men.[/FONT]

I'm thinking this thread has officially derailed.

 

[louis]

I agree with much of what you say here. Since we are all still in this "earth suit" we are still GREATLY influenced by many things that need yet to be discarded. Things we still wrongly hold on to that we no longer have need of anymore. None of us have arrived yet. I've found it to be true that the more we expose our eyes and ears and minds to the Bible and the teaching of it in and through the Holy Spirit the more able we are to dump our old manner of living and put on the new manner of life in the Spirit.

We are now born again and our born again man is who we really are. Our old man is dead and gone but the memory of him is still in us like a bell that once rang over and over in our heads for days on end but is now stopped and is gone., we still hear the echo of the reverberations. But the "bell" itself is gone-gone-gone.

Now we are admonished over and over in the Bible to walk out our new man by faith. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. Not just on Sunday and Wednesdays. But when we get up in the morning., when we listen to music., when we go about our day it should be done as the Spirit and the Bible is before us.
The truth is always learned best in the day to day of our lives while we do the dishes and love our families we can do it by our new man and it's even better than it ever was!

Today we have CDs., DVDs.,, internet.... CC.,,, to add to our Church life of hearing the preaching and teaching of the Word and the fellowship of the saints on Sunday mornings and evenings and mid week and holidays etc... etc.... If we don't make a point of this exposure being our mission in life., we won't know much except about how we think and feel. What we "feel and think" has been effected by our old manner of life. We need to walk in the Spirit so we don't fulfill the lusts of the earth suit. (sort of speak)

The Bible says and you shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free. But if we don't hear the truth and learn the truth every day and believe it since there is no end to the truth found in the Spirit of life., we won't grow.

Typing here on CC is more therapy than anything else. These things are 100% a need I have and typing them out is like a prayer. The reiterating of these truths equips me to go out to work this evening. The early morning fellowship in prayer with 3 other Christians before Sunday school was awesome and although it was amazing it's the things we keep remembering to take with us and hear again and again that cause all of it to solidify in us making us strong in the faith to keep going. One dose isn't enough to change our old manner of living.
The Bible and fellowship and prayer and praying doesn't get downloaded into our brains unfortunately. It takes an action to walk this earthsuit to places it needs to go.

I like your post sister.

Matthew 18:20 [FONT=&quot]For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.[/FONT]

 

[dcontroversal]

I'm thinking this thread has officially derailed.

It was derailed with the OP's premise......

 

[joaniemarie]

We either are influenced by the unseen spiritual powers (both good and bad), or we are not influenced by these spiritual powers. I am one who believes everyone is influenced by these spiritual powers.
And in order for the bad spiritual powers to influence people, they need to make it attractive.
Satan and his angels do this by providing us false illumination (aka lies), as 2 Corinthians 11:14 indicates.
If you choose to interpret people having different opinions as simply being ignorant that may very well be, but in my book even that ignorant different opinion (illumination) would had to have originated from one of two sides, the truth, or lie.

2 Corinthians 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

I have not studied out the Rev. verses you posted but I agree with you on the fact that many are deceived and it's obvious by so many Christians arguing and angry at one another when different viewpoints are raised or when personalities clash. To ignore this common "phenomenon" is totally SILLY.

Just the other night I was listening in the BSR and some very mature and respectable Christians were arguing about the "fruit" of the others being bad. Calling each other out for it and continuing the personal argument in front of the whole room of people. That was a major overtired reaction IMO by people who just personally don't like each other. It's the earth suit in action and it happens to all of us and we have to guard against it every day and night. Get enough sleep and be daily reminded how to control our earthsuit by the Spirit life heard and lived out in us.

Good post louis and a major HELLO to all of us here that we are more influenced by our enemy than many of us realize. The Holy Spirit won't force us to grow up. We must be willing participants in the process every single day.

 

[louis]

I'm thinking this thread has officially derailed.

You brought up not being part of the world and supposedly thus not susceptible to the devil's deceit.
But even if you were among the disciples who had become not of this world; as I have shown they were still susceptible to Satan's deceptions.

 

[louis]

I have not studied out the Rev. verses you posted but I agree with you on the fact that many are deceived and it's obvious by so many Christians arguing and angry at one another when different viewpoints are raised or when personalities clash. To ignore this common "phenomenon" is totally SILLY.

Just the other night I was listening in the BSR and some very mature and respectable Christians were arguing about the "fruit" of the others being bad. Calling each other out for it and continuing the personal argument in front of the whole room of people. That was a major overtired reaction IMO by people who just personally don't like each other. It's the earth suit in action and it happens to all of us and we have to guard against it every day and night. Get enough sleep and be daily reminded how to control our earthsuit by the Spirit life heard and lived out in us.

Good post louis and a major HELLO to all of us here that we are more influenced by our enemy than many of us realize. The Holy Spirit won't force us to grow up. We must be willing participants in the process every single day.

I happy to see that you see the truth.

 

[joaniemarie]

With Satan being a master deceiver, do you think he would overlook the opportunity created by ignorance? He certainly didn't miss that opportunity with Eve when she appeared ignorant of what God actually said (as compared to what she answered the serpent) in the garden of Eden.

Even God states that HIS people are destroyed for lack of knowledge (aka ignorance). In fact he goes on to say "because you have rejected knowledge, I will reject thee".

I realize that is NOT a popular way of thinking amongst Christians, (because of fear) but do you not realize how many times Jesus tried to get that message across to us?
"To whom much is given, much is required. " Do you really believe that it's the unbelievers (who have been given little) that are required to study and seek God more than the Christian (who has been given much)?

Do you forget that AFTER or at least during the "tribulation of those days" the kingdom of GOD(not the world in general) will be like 10 virgins. ..only half of whom were wise enough to make it in?

Aside from the 10 virgin teaching I totally can agree with you here without study. Some say the virgins are Israel and others say they are believers who are not ready with oil in their lamps and Jesus won't let them in. I know it's not believes since all who are His will be allowed in. So the other interpretations I need to study out before agreeing.

 

[joaniemarie]

I am not an OSAS believer.
In Revelation 2 and 3 we see the seven churches in Asia Minor were told to overcome their carnal inclinations, and that those who did would inherit the kingdom of heaven, and those who didn't, wouldn't.

And here is where you and I go in 2 different directions. He who the Son has set free is free indeed. We are not saved on the installment plan. Jesus finished the work and we received His gift of everlasting life and righteousness. Since we were sealed by the Holy Spirit at that moment and made 100% righteous in God's sight., we are saved once and for all. We may fall on our faces while in our earth suit., but our born again Spirit man is alive and well. (but I still agree with you about the major influences of the enemy who seeks to kill steal and destroy us)

 

[louis]

And here is where you and I go in 2 different directions. He who the Son has set free is free indeed. We are not saved on the installment plan. Jesus finished the work and we received His gift of everlasting life and righteousness. Since we were sealed by the Holy Spirit at that moment and made 100% righteous in God's sight., we are saved once and for all. We may fall on our faces while in our earth suit., but our born again Spirit man is alive and well. (but I still agree with you about the major influences of the enemy who seeks to kill steal and destroy us)

Then why does the Lord in Revelation 2 & 3 provide warning to the seven churches in Asia Minor, to keep their first love, and that unless they overcome their contrary inclinations, He would then remove their names from the book of life, if they were OSAS?

Revelation 3:5 [FONT=&quot]He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.[/FONT]

 

[joaniemarie]

Then why does the Lord in Revelation 2 & 3 provide warning to the seven churches in Asia Minor, to keep their first love, and that unless they overcome their contrary inclinations, He would then remove their names from the book of life, if they were OSAS?

Revelation 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Oh so many reasons but I'll repost this article about The Endurance of the Saints by Paul Ellis who I respect on many matters of the Bible.

Does God Use Correction Fluid?

Posted on December 8, 2010 by Paul Ellis // 45 Comments

Is your name written in the Lamb’s Book of Life? If so, are you worried that Jesus may blot out your name? It seems that many Christians are. They are afraid that they might do something that will cause Jesus to blot out their names from His Book of Life. It’s like Jesus is sitting in heaven with a pen in one hand and a bottle of correction fluid in the other. Get saved, name goes in. Fail a test, name goes out. Re-commit your life to God, name goes back in. Phew! With all the re-commitments going on, you’d think Jesus was in danger of repetitive stress injury!
But seriously, do you fear that Jesus might remove your name from His book? Is this something that concerns you? It shouldn’t.
The most important book in the universe
If you haven’t heard, the Book of Life lists all those who are saved for eternity. Revelations chapter 20 speaks of a day when the books are opened and the dead are judged according to what they have done. But in terms of your salvation, only one book matters and it’s the Lamb’s Book of Life. If your name is not in this book, you’re cooked:
If anyone’s name was not found written in the Book of Life, he was thrown into the lake of fire. (Rev 20:15)
I don’t want to belittle this. It’s very important to make sure that your name is recorded in this book. (If Jesus knows you, you’re in!) But if your name is already recorded in His book, should you be worried about being blotted out? Under the old covenant, the answer seemed to be yes!
The LORD replied to Moses, ‘Whoever has sinned against me I will blot out of my Book.’ (Exo 32:33)
Under the old covenant, your performance mattered a great deal. You were blessed if you were faithful, but condemned if you weren’t. This meant that people were very conscious of their behavior. They knew that their sins could lead to dire consequences. Under the old covenant you might even pray for your enemies like this:
May they be blotted out of the Book of Life and not be listed with the righteous. (Psa 69:28)
But we don’t live under that old sin-conscious covenant. We live under the new and better covenant of God’s grace. Under grace, your performance affects your standing before God not one bit. Jesus did it all. We are not blessed because we are faithful but because He is faithful.
Mixing covenants
So why are Christians afraid that Jesus will blot their names out of His book? Their fear stems from an old covenant interpretation of a new covenant promise. I am sure you know the promise I am referring to. It is found in the exhortation Jesus’ gave to the church in Sardis:
He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the Book of Life, but will acknowledge his name before My Father and His angels. (Rev 3:5)
Here Jesus gives us a wonderful assurance of our eternal salvation. He is promising that He will never blot out our names. Never means never! Yet some read this as if Jesus might yet do the very thing He promised not to do. (If Jesus has promised He won’t do something, but you think He might, isn’t that a bit like calling God a liar?)
Someone with an old covenant mindset looks at this verse and sees only conditions for salvation. They think, “I have to overcome to qualify. If I don’t overcome, I’m going to be blotted out.” To read the verse in this way is to dismiss the cross and make the grace of God of no effect.
But someone with a new covenant mindset looks at this verse in a completely different way. They think, “Jesus has overcome the world and now lives in me. I don’t overcome to qualify – I am qualified by Christ and I now carry His overcoming nature. This is not some test I have to pass, but a wonderful promise regarding my inheritance.” (See 1 Jn 4:4, 5:5, Jn 16:33, and Col 1:12.)
God has perfect knowledge. When He added your name to His book He knew everything you had done and everything you were going to do. There is nothing you can do that will surprise Him, nothing that would cause Him to shake His head with disappointment and say, “I made a mistake adopting that one.” The good news is that God doesn’t make mistakes. When He added you to His book it was for all eternity.
The new thing
There’s only one thing of yours that God promises to blot out, and it’s not your name – it’s your sins:
I, even I, am He who blots out your transgressions, for my own sake, and remembers your sins no more. (Isa 43:25)
God promised to blot out all your sins and He did that already. This was the “new thing” foretold by the prophet Isaiah (43:19). Under the old covenant, men’s sins were counted against them. But when Jesus met all the demands of the law at the cross, all your sins were blotted out. Your sin is no longer being imputed to you (2 Cor 5:19). Why did He blot out your sins? He did it for His own sake, because He loves us, and so that we might be reconciled to Him.
If your name is in His book, you have nothing to fear on Judgment Day. If all your sins were blotted out at the cross, then there is no sin left that could get your name removed from His book. This is the gospel. It was new news for Isaiah, is old news for us, but is still good news for everyone.

 

[louis]

Oh so many reasons but I'll repost this article about The Endurance of the Saints by Paul Ellis who I respect on many matters of the Bible.

Does God Use Correction Fluid?

Posted on December 8, 2010 by Paul Ellis // 45 Comments

Is your name written in the Lamb’s Book of Life? If so, are you worried that Jesus may blot out your name? It seems that many Christians are. They are afraid that they might do something that will cause Jesus to blot out their names from His Book of Life. It’s like Jesus is sitting in heaven with a pen in one hand and a bottle of correction fluid in the other. Get saved, name goes in. Fail a test, name goes out. Re-commit your life to God, name goes back in. Phew! With all the re-commitments going on, you’d think Jesus was in danger of repetitive stress injury!
But seriously, do you fear that Jesus might remove your name from His book? Is this something that concerns you? It shouldn’t.
The most important book in the universe
If you haven’t heard, the Book of Life lists all those who are saved for eternity. Revelations chapter 20 speaks of a day when the books are opened and the dead are judged according to what they have done. But in terms of your salvation, only one book matters and it’s the Lamb’s Book of Life. If your name is not in this book, you’re cooked:
If anyone’s name was not found written in the Book of Life, he was thrown into the lake of fire. (Rev 20:15)
I don’t want to belittle this. It’s very important to make sure that your name is recorded in this book. (If Jesus knows you, you’re in!) But if your name is already recorded in His book, should you be worried about being blotted out? Under the old covenant, the answer seemed to be yes!
The LORD replied to Moses, ‘Whoever has sinned against me I will blot out of my Book.’ (Exo 32:33)
Under the old covenant, your performance mattered a great deal. You were blessed if you were faithful, but condemned if you weren’t. This meant that people were very conscious of their behavior. They knew that their sins could lead to dire consequences. Under the old covenant you might even pray for your enemies like this:
May they be blotted out of the Book of Life and not be listed with the righteous. (Psa 69:28)
But we don’t live under that old sin-conscious covenant. We live under the new and better covenant of God’s grace. Under grace, your performance affects your standing before God not one bit. Jesus did it all. We are not blessed because we are faithful but because He is faithful.
Mixing covenants
So why are Christians afraid that Jesus will blot their names out of His book? Their fear stems from an old covenant interpretation of a new covenant promise. I am sure you know the promise I am referring to. It is found in the exhortation Jesus’ gave to the church in Sardis:
He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the Book of Life, but will acknowledge his name before My Father and His angels. (Rev 3:5)
Here Jesus gives us a wonderful assurance of our eternal salvation. He is promising that He will never blot out our names. Never means never! Yet some read this as if Jesus might yet do the very thing He promised not to do. (If Jesus has promised He won’t do something, but you think He might, isn’t that a bit like calling God a liar?)
Someone with an old covenant mindset looks at this verse and sees only conditions for salvation. They think, “I have to overcome to qualify. If I don’t overcome, I’m going to be blotted out.” To read the verse in this way is to dismiss the cross and make the grace of God of no effect.
But someone with a new covenant mindset looks at this verse in a completely different way. They think, “Jesus has overcome the world and now lives in me. I don’t overcome to qualify – I am qualified by Christ and I now carry His overcoming nature. This is not some test I have to pass, but a wonderful promise regarding my inheritance.” (See 1 Jn 4:4, 5:5, Jn 16:33, and Col 1:12.)
God has perfect knowledge. When He added your name to His book He knew everything you had done and everything you were going to do. There is nothing you can do that will surprise Him, nothing that would cause Him to shake His head with disappointment and say, “I made a mistake adopting that one.” The good news is that God doesn’t make mistakes. When He added you to His book it was for all eternity.
The new thing
There’s only one thing of yours that God promises to blot out, and it’s not your name – it’s your sins:
I, even I, am He who blots out your transgressions, for my own sake, and remembers your sins no more. (Isa 43:25)
God promised to blot out all your sins and He did that already. This was the “new thing” foretold by the prophet Isaiah (43:19). Under the old covenant, men’s sins were counted against them. But when Jesus met all the demands of the law at the cross, all your sins were blotted out. Your sin is no longer being imputed to you (2 Cor 5:19). Why did He blot out your sins? He did it for His own sake, because He loves us, and so that we might be reconciled to Him.
If your name is in His book, you have nothing to fear on Judgment Day. If all your sins were blotted out at the cross, then there is no sin left that could get your name removed from His book. This is the gospel. It was new news for Isaiah, is old news for us, but is still good news for everyone.

An original definition of sin was that for an arrow missing its mark. When someone sins, they miss the mark.
I do not see how if one continues to miss the mark (sin), how that individual will be awarded heaven as their prize.

 

[joaniemarie]

An original definition of sin was that for an arrow missing its mark. When someone sins, they miss the mark.
I do not see how if one continues to miss the mark (sin), how that individual will be awarded heaven as their prize.

Because we don't go before God in our own human righteousness. We go IN Christ and the righteousness He gave us. His righteousness was imputed to us and our sin was imputed to Him on the cross. And He paid for it and defeated it. Jesus was 100% innocent of any wrong and our sin was put on Him. We were 100% guilty of sin and His righteousness was put on us.

We don't get what we deserve. Salvation is a gift in every sense of the word., Jesus hit the mark for us and then gave us the GIFT of salvation. We don't go to heaven because of our own goodness and deserving of it. We need Jesus to hit the mark every time for us. Did you read the post before this?

 

[dcontroversal]

And here is where you and I go in 2 different directions. He who the Son has set free is free indeed. We are not saved on the installment plan. Jesus finished the work and we received His gift of everlasting life and righteousness. Since we were sealed by the Holy Spirit at that moment and made 100% righteous in God's sight., we are saved once and for all. We may fall on our faces while in our earth suit., but our born again Spirit man is alive and well. (but I still agree with you about the major influences of the enemy who seeks to kill steal and destroy us)

Hahahah installment plan....hilarious and I agree....one and done eternally....

 

[maxwel]

I think I can explain the whole problem of conflicting dogmas.

People with 2 eyeballs, well, they commonly have one or the other go out of focus when reading scripture, and this causes textual errors as the other eyeball tries to correct, and often overcompensates.

Basically, people with two eyes just can't look at things right...
people with two eyes look funny.

 

[Johnny_B]

As everyone here is probably aware, there probably aren't two people who agree totally on what everything is in reference to.
The reason for this according to Revelation 12:9 is that the Devil is currently deceiving the whole world. This includes you, me and everyone.
According to 2 Corinthians 11:14, how the devil deceives everyone (including the faithful currently), is by masquerading as true illumination from the Lord, when in reality Satan is providing us with false illumination, aka lies.
This is why we on this forum and other Christian forums have numerous conflicting opinions on what scriptures represent.
Those of us who study the Word sparsely will in all likelihood be those with the most misconceptions, who make excuses for conflicting scriptures that contradict their dogmas, while not realizing those excuses coming from the great deceiver.
On the other hand, those who study Gods Word more frequently and do not make excuses for scriptures that seem to conflict with their perspective of scripture are less deceived by Satan's false illumination.

Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

2 Corinthians 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

I have not read every post so if it has been said, please forgive me. Your hermeneutics are off. Read II Corinthians in context.

“And what I am doing I will continue to do, in order to undermine the claim of those who would like to claim that in their boasted mission they work on the same terms as we do.13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ.14 And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.15 So it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds.”

Paul is talking about false apostles and how satan disguises himself as an angel of light, since these false apostles are working for satan to disceive, it is no suprise the his false apostle present themselves as sevants of righteousness, because they disceive just like satan.

Now Revelation 12 is speaking of a future event, I know my amillinnial Brothers and Sisters may not agree with this, but verses 1-6 is a summary of the Christ coming from Israel, the devil wanting to destroy Him, but we know the Christ disarmed the devil Coloassians 2:15, and Israel going to a place to be nourished for 1260 days or a time, and times, and half a time. Israel has not been norished or built up by God any time after Christ's birth or ascension and there has not been a time where Israel was supernaturally helped, verse 16. Verses 7-17 is a more informative explaintion of veres 1-6. It is a Hebrew style of writting like in Genesis 1:26-27 gives an account of the creation of man and women, with Genesis 2:4-27 is a more in depth account of the creation of man, the same writting style of writting here in Revelation 12.

In verse 9 satan deceives the world, but verse 10 marks him as the accuser of our brothers and he accuses them day and night before our God. Verse 11 has us conquering him by the blood of the Lamb and the word of our testimony, Christ is our advocate I John 2:1, satan accuses, Christ advocates before the Father. If satan was already cast down to earth, we would not need an advocate (defense attorney) before the Father, because who would be accusing us before our God? An example of him accusing our brother(s) is Job 1:6-12 and 2:1-6.

Studying the word of God needs to be in it's context and according to the full counsel of God, if all this happened after the ascension of Christ, there would have been no reason for the Holy Spirit to move John to write about Christ being our advocate for us to hold to in our time. Instaed of reading in the present, it would read as He had advocated for us before the Father or in His suffering, death and resurrection in a one time act, but it is not a one time act, He is still advocating for us.

 

[dcontroversal]

Then why does the Lord in Revelation 2 & 3 provide warning to the seven churches in Asia Minor, to keep their first love, and that unless they overcome their contrary inclinations, He would then remove their names from the book of life, if they were OSAS?

Revelation 3:5 [FONT=&quot]He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.[/FONT]

This ia the victory that overcomes the world...even our faith...see my view....everyone is written in the book of the living and only removed at the rejection of Christ.....