The rise of the Antichrist and the last 7 years.

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Jul 30, 2010
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#41
Sounds like you are trying to make it fit but, if you use the year/day principle as it should be used then it fits perfectly together both time periods[/quoteNot trying to make it fit. It does fit. Its called connecting the scriptures.

Gods word is clear. The last three and half years of the false prophets rule is in Israel whom he conquers. God is also clear that his two witnessess prophesy right before Christs return (1260 days) What does that mean?

Well it's pretty obvious that it's the same time period - the last three and a half years before Christ returns.


Daniel 12:7 And I heard the man clothed in linen which is apon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that lives forever that it shall be for a time, times, and a half; and when he shall accomplish to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.


Daniel 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.


So just to prove that the false prophet will be in Israel for the last 3 1/2 years....

Daniel 11:45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end and none shall help him.

Between the seas - dead sea and mediterranean sea
Palace - Temple (abomination which makes desolate) because of his teaching - he is the false prophet and which causes the world to believe the lie (spiritually desolate)

Glorious Holy Mountain - Mt Zion....Jerusalem

Come to his end - thrown in the lake of fire.
 
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TheAristocat

Senior Member
Oct 4, 2011
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#42
So do you see the 1260 days and the 42 months as being the same time period?

The Bible says the Antichrist was already working in the early church
2 Thessalonians 2:7
(7) For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

1 John 4:3
(3) And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.


So is it better to believe the Bible or someone who says the antichrist is future?
We should be careful about our terminology. The Bible says there are many anti-christs. A singular anti-christ is a modern preconception that should not be dwelt on. Rather a type of person as an anti-christ should be understood as being an anti-christ. I can't ever remember Revelation using the term anti-christ to refer to the prince who sets up an abomination, but I'm thinking that Jesus wouldn't set up an abomination to God or stop the sacrifices that were first enstated by God. And of course some people will disagree with me on the last part of my statement but it would be hard for them to disagree with the first part.

There are many anti-christs and will be, but there will be one "prince" who does evil. There will also be a mark of the beast as well as a mark of God after the mark of the beast, but we should be careful to not confuse the two and to know the difference between Christ and the anti-christ who sets up the abomination. But if you don't believe this stuff will happen in the future, then you don't have a problem. A belief in it is not required - only an awareness of what is occurring. And if there comes a third temple with sacrifices and a prince stops the sacrifices and sets up an abomination, then you can revise this belief and know that the prince is not Christ.
 
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L

Laodicea

Guest
#43
We should be careful about our terminology. The Bible says there are many anti-christs. A singular anti-christ is a modern preconception that should not be dwelt on. Rather a type of person as an anti-christ should be understood as being an anti-christ. I can't ever remember Revelation using the term anti-christ to refer to the prince who sets up an abomination, but I'm thinking that Jesus wouldn't set up an abomination to God or stop the sacrifices that were first enstated by God. And of course some people will disagree with me on the last part of my statement but it would be hard for them to disagree with the first part.

There are many anti-christs and will be, but there will be one "prince" who does evil. There will also be a mark of the beast as well as a mark of God after the mark of the beast, but we should be careful to not confuse the two and to know the difference between Christ and the anti-christ who sets up the abomination. But if you don't believe this stuff will happen in the future, then you don't have a problem. A belief in it is not required - only an awareness of what is occurring. And if there comes a third temple with sacrifices and a prince stops the sacrifices and sets up an abomination, then you can revise this belief and know that the prince is not Christ.
If you read the text in 1 John 4:3 it says antichrist not antichrists. Also it says he was already in the world, the antichrist is not future but, according to the Bible has been here for many years. Antichrist means in place of Christ it does not mean against Christ.
G473
ἀντί
anti
an-tee'
A primary particle; opposite, that is, instead or because of (rarely in addition to): - for, in the room of. Often used in composition to denote contrast, requital, substitution, correspondence, etc.

The antichrist sits in the church
2 Thessalonians 2:4
(4) Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
1 Corinthians 3:16
(16) Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
2 Corinthians 6:16
(16) And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

You can also read about the little horn of Daniel who is also the antichrist and the 1st beast of Revelation 13 as well. Here is some info:-
2 Thessalonians 2:3
(3) Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
Daniel 7:25
(25) And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

So what laws will he change?
Revelation 13:4
(4) And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

Revelation 13:5

(5) And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
Revelation 13:15
(15) And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.








 

TheAristocat

Senior Member
Oct 4, 2011
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#44
If you read the text in 1 John 4:3 it says antichrist not antichrists. Also it says he was already in the world, the antichrist is not future but, according to the Bible has been here for many years. Antichrist means in place of Christ it does not mean against Christ.
G473
ἀντί
anti
an-tee'
A primary particle; opposite, that is, instead or because of (rarely in addition to): - for, in the room of. Often used in composition to denote contrast, requital, substitution, correspondence, etc.

The antichrist sits in the church
2 Thessalonians 2:4
(4) Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
1 Corinthians 3:16
(16) Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
2 Corinthians 6:16
(16) And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

You can also read about the little horn of Daniel who is also the antichrist and the 1st beast of Revelation 13 as well. Here is some info:-
2 Thessalonians 2:3
(3) Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
Daniel 7:25
(25) And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

So what laws will he change?
Revelation 13:4
(4) And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
Revelation 13:5

(5) And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
Revelation 13:15
(15) And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
1 John 2:18 Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour.

There are many antichrists even if there is one in particular. And I don't see what you listed as laws being changed. Not disagreeing with Daniel 7:25. I just don't see what your point was in listing Revelation 13.

We should be careful about our understanding of the different "temples." We are called the Temple of God but God is also called the Temple of God (Revelation 21:22). But what temple are we talking about? Are we talking about God or are we talking about our bodies? Neither. We're talking about an inanimate temple probably made of stone, steel, gold, etc. in which there are sacrifices and those sacrifices are being stopped.

If one wants to interpret temple to mean "our bodies" or "God" then they might also have to interpret "wing of the temple" or "abomination" or "stopping of sacrifices" to mean something other than "part of a building", "idol" or "animal sacrifice." But these are all references to acts and objects that dealt with the temples that were buildings. These clue us in as to what sort of temple is meant. If our bodies were the temple meant here or if God were then there would be no need for the use of location-specific terminology in reference to where the abomination that causes desolation will be set up.
 
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TheAristocat

Senior Member
Oct 4, 2011
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#45
If you read the text in 1 John 4:3 it says antichrist not antichrists. Also it says he was already in the world, the antichrist is not future but, according to the Bible has been here for many years. Antichrist means in place of Christ it does not mean against Christ.
G473
ἀντί
anti
an-tee'
A primary particle; opposite, that is, instead or because of (rarely in addition to): - for, in the room of. Often used in composition to denote contrast, requital, substitution, correspondence, etc.

The antichrist sits in the church
2 Thessalonians 2:4
(4) Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
1 Corinthians 3:16
(16) Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
2 Corinthians 6:16
(16) And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

You can also read about the little horn of Daniel who is also the antichrist and the 1st beast of Revelation 13 as well. Here is some info:-
2 Thessalonians 2:3
(3) Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
Daniel 7:25
(25) And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

So what laws will he change?
Revelation 13:4
(4) And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
Revelation 13:5

(5) And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
Revelation 13:15
(15) And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

Our bodies are a sort of temple to God, because God dwells in us just as he dwelt in the temple. And so we should respect them and take care of them and keep them holy as we would revere the building that was the temple of God. I believe that's the point Paul was making in 1 Corinthians 3:16.
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#46
There are many antichrists even if there is one in particular. And I don't see what you listed as laws being changed. Not disagreeing with Daniel 7:25. I just don't see what your point was in listing Revelation 13.
The Bible calls the antichrist 'the man of sin' Daniel says he shall change times and laws and Rev 13 shows what laws they changed it is referring to the Law of God. So to put it all together the antichrist sits in the church in place of Christ and changes God's law to get worship.
 

TheAristocat

Senior Member
Oct 4, 2011
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#47
The Bible calls the antichrist 'the man of sin' Daniel says he shall change times and laws and Rev 13 shows what laws they changed it is referring to the Law of God. So to put it all together the antichrist sits in the church in place of Christ and changes God's law to get worship.
The antichrist does seem to try to change the sacrificial laws at least. He attempts to abolish them by abolishing the sacrifices, but the laws themselves are not abolished - only the sacrifices. And I think there will definitely be some parallels between him and Christ, and he may even proclaim to be God in order to get worship. So I think unwary people who know a little about Christ or who have misconceptions about Christ will confuse the two and end up worshipping a false god and accepting the mark of the beast.

I believe this particular antichrist will conquer Israel, set up an abomination (presumably an idol that is given life) in the third temple and stop the sacrifices.
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#48
The antichrist does seem to try to change the sacrificial laws at least. He attempts to abolish them by abolishing the sacrifices, but the laws themselves are not abolished - only the sacrifices. And I think there will definitely be some parallels between him and Christ, and he may even proclaim to be God in order to get worship. So I think unwary people who know a little about Christ or who have misconceptions about Christ will confuse the two and end up worshipping a false god and accepting the mark of the beast.

I believe this particular antichrist will conquer Israel, set up an abomination (presumably an idol that is given life) in the third temple and stop the sacrifices.
But as I mentioned before The Bible says the antichrist has been here since the early church. The antichrist is not future people need to read the description in the Bible and find out who he is.
 
Jul 30, 2010
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#49
If you read the text in 1 John 4:3 it says antichrist not antichrists. Also it says he was already in the world, the antichrist is not future but, according to the Bible has been here for many years. Antichrist means in place of Christ it does not mean against Christ[/QUOTE
]It says this
1John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof and even now already is it in the world.

It's the spirit of Antichrist...... the spirit.


G473
ἀντί
anti
an-tee'
A primary particle; opposite, that is, instead or because of (rarely in addition to): - for, in the room of. Often used in composition to denote contrast, requital, substitution, correspondence, etc.
What a load of baloney.
Do you trust this or God's definition? God explained what antichrist meant. Every spirit that believes not that Christ came in the flesh.


The antichrist sits in the church
2 Thessalonians 2:4
(4) Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
1 Corinthians 3:16
(16) Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
2 Corinthians 6:16
(16) And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
You are getting the two temples mixed up here. The false prophet builds his own temple. He sits in it as God and is worshipped.

The true temple of God cannot be decieved. If the spirit of God dwells in you, you will not be decieved. He will not allow it, because you will be full of of the truth.
You can only have the spirit of God if you feed of Christ's flesh which is the Word of God. And this Word not only gives life, but it is knowledge. Spiritual knowledge. Spirit of truth.



 
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Laodicea

Guest
#51
If "the Antichrist" has already come, then who was he?
Put all the pieces together in the Bible, look at the little horn power io Daniel, the first beast of Rev 13. The Bible says he was already working in the time of the early church
 
Jul 30, 2010
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#52
Put all the pieces together in the Bible, look at the little horn power io Daniel, the first beast of Rev 13. The Bible says he was already working in the time of the early church
[/QUOTE]So who was he?

The little horn is the false prophet yes, but the first beast is not the false prophet, the second one is however.

There is a difference between the first beast and the second beast. The first beast came out of the sea and the second beast came out of the earth.

Can you tell the difference? Why? Whats the difference of coming out of the sea and coming out of the earth?
 
Jul 30, 2010
882
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#53
=Laodicea;585308]
Put all the pieces together in the Bible, look at the little horn power io Daniel, the first beast of Rev 13. The Bible says he was already working in the time of the early church]
[/QUOTE] Did you notice that the first beast with the ten horns came up first? And the little horn came up later. The little horn uproots three kings.
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#54
[/QUOTE]So who was he?

The little horn is the false prophet yes, but the first beast is not the false prophet, the second one is however.

There is a difference between the first beast and the second beast. The first beast came out of the sea and the second beast came out of the earth.

Can you tell the difference? Why? Whats the difference of coming out of the sea and coming out of the earth?
The Little horn is not the false prophet the little horn in Daniel 7 & 8 is the antichrist. This is what the sea represents:-
Revelation 17:15
(15) And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

So when a beast arises from the sea we have a nation arising amidst many people, then coming from the earth would be the opposite not many people.

It is good to start in Daniel 2 we have in there

Babylon
Medo-Persia
Greece
Rome

Divded Rome
God's kingdom

Note that there was no gap between Babylon and Medo-Persia, no gap between Medo-Persia and Greece, no gap between Greece and Rome, so because of that we must continue to follow that rule there was no gap between Rome and divided Rome. Rome fell in 476AD so at that time we should see Rome divided into ten parts.


 

TheAristocat

Senior Member
Oct 4, 2011
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#55
Some things I wanted to address real quick:

1. The beast is not a kingdom. The beast is a ruler. His body is a lineage of kings or otherwise a chronological grouping of kings. Each head of the body represents a king. Many of those kings had come and gone already and the last, of course, is yet to come.
2. The abomination of desolation is not the temple. If it were then it would not be said that it would be set up in the temple. See Daniel 11:31.
3. The Anointed One in Daniel 9 is the Messiah Jesus.
4. The ruler that will come in Daniel 9 is not Jesus but a wicked ruler.
5. Saying that the "The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary," does not necessarily indicate that the ruler will be alive when his people destroy the city and the sanctuary but that his people will be alive at that point in time. His people did the destroying, but the ruler may in fact have still needed to come. Why? Because there is another temple that the ruler sets up an abomination in. It doesn't make sense for the ruler to be alive during the destruction of the second temple and then a third temple being swiftly constructed in order for the ruler to set up the abomination in a temple that has not yet been destroyed.
6. The abomination is probably an idol or "statue" as it's called in later passages. Also see Jeremiah 7:30 and the numerous other passages in the Bible that use the word "abomination" in place of an idol or image or false god in general.
7. Notice that at the time this was written the first temple was destroyed, and this passage talked about a second temple being destroyed.
8. Notice that after the second temple is destroyed in Daniel 9:26 there is a temple that still exists in Daniel 9:27 and 11:31 in which is being set up an abomination. How can the abomination be set up in the second temple if it's already been destroyed? This is talking about a third temple, and there has not been a third temple yet. This man is still to come and these acts have yet to take place. When the third temple is constructed, then this part of the prophecy can come to completion. But there is no third temple yet. There is a third temple society among the Jews, and all of the articles that will be used in the third temple have already been made (e.g. the high priest's clothes, the golden menorah, etc.). But this third temple hasn't been constructed yet.

That's why I was so interested in the Israeli-Palestinian debate in the UN. If the UN voted to enstate a Palestinian country that did not control the Temple Mount then the Jews would feel free to build the third temple there since it would be indisputably under their control and jurisdiction. Right now there are a lot of Arab Muslims that live in Israel and are trying to control the Temple Mount. But if they were given a country separate from Israel that did not control the Temple Mount then they would have no say in the fate of the Temple Mount, and the Jews could do whatever they wanted with the ungodly mosque. They would probably destroy it and set up the third temple. But I don't think the Temple Mount is where the second temple stood anyway.
 
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TheAristocat

Senior Member
Oct 4, 2011
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#56
5. Saying that the "The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary," does not necessarily indicate that the ruler will be alive when his people destroy the city and the sanctuary but that his people will be alive at that point in time. His people did the destroying, but the ruler may in fact have still needed to come. Why? Because there is another temple that the ruler sets up an abomination in. It doesn't make sense for the ruler to be alive during the destruction of the second temple and then a third temple being swiftly constructed in order for the ruler to set up the abomination in a temple that has not yet been destroyed. So a passage of time can be assumed in between the destruction of the second temple and the setting up of the abomination in another temple.

The second temple could not have been the temple in which the abomination was set up because the abomination was set up in the temple after the second temple was destroyed. And if not even one stone would be left upon another in the second temple after it was destroyed then we couldn't even say that the abomination would be set up in the second temple's rubble (much less in the second temple) because there would be nothing left of the second temple at all. It doesn't make any sense. So I believe this is talking about a third temple or in general a future temple if not a third one.

I just wanted to add those bolded words to my point.
 
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systemdown101

Guest
#57
I was reading over some of the prophecies given about the end times, and it's really quite fascinating. One of them says that there will be earthquakes in diverse places - which means places you wouldn't expect them to. And isn't it strange we're getting them in Washington DC, or the east coast, or Oklahoma? Food for thought there! And, based on all the economic unrest in Europe right now, the ground sure looks fertile for someone to come along promising all the easy answers to solve the many problems out there. Hmm, wonder who could do that ...?

Also, regarding the Antichrist, a radio pastor I listen to said that one of the theories as to who he would be was that he would somehow be Nero come back, based on Revelations 17: 10-11. He didn't say it WOULD be Nero, just that it was one of many guesses as to who it would be.
 
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peterT

Guest
#58
John 12:31Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the PRINCE of this world be cast out.

John 14:30Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the PRINCE of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.

the prince of this world.
the Antichrist.

Daniel9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof [shall be] with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined
Daniel 9:27 And HE shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week (7 years) he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

He does not make the covenant, He confirm the covenant.

Daniel 9:27 And HE shall confirm the covenant with many for one week

confirm
To support or establish. HE confirms with others the covenant with many for one week. “7 years”

Then He will go against the holy covenant, his heart [shall be] against the holy covenant why because John 8:44 for he is a liar, and the father of it.
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#59
John 12:31Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the PRINCE of this world be cast out.

John 14:30Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the PRINCE of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.

the prince of this world.
the Antichrist.

Daniel9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof [shall be] with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined
Daniel 9:27 And HE shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week (7 years) he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

He does not make the covenant, He confirm the covenant.

Daniel 9:27 And HE shall confirm the covenant with many for one week

confirm
To support or establish. HE confirms with others the covenant with many for one week. “7 years”

Then He will go against the holy covenant, his heart [shall be] against the holy covenant why because John 8:44 for he is a liar, and the father of it.
Remember that He confirms the covenant for one week even after the sacrifices cease in the midst of the week He still confirms the covenant after that. Christ confirmed the covenant for one week and caused the sacrifices to cease in their meaning by His death. Now what you are saying that the antichrist confirms it then breaks it in the midst does not fit because it is confirmed for the week not part of it.
 
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peterT

Guest
#60
Remember that He confirms the covenant for one week even after the sacrifices cease in the midst of the week He still confirms the covenant after that. Christ confirmed the covenant for one week and caused the sacrifices to cease in their meaning by His death. Now what you are saying that the antichrist confirms it then breaks it in the midst does not fit because it is confirmed for the week not part of it.
I think to say he breaks the COVENANT is a little bit strong. His heart is against the holy covenant;
And yet He promotes the COVENANT because he is a liar and a deceiver
Daniel 11:28Then shall he return into his land with great riches; and his heart [shall be] against the holy covenant; and he shall do [exploits], and return to his own land.
Daniel 11:32And such as do wickedly against the COVENANT shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do [exploits].