The Times of the Gentiles

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
113
Matthew 28:18 King James Version (KJV)

18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.


What did Yeshua/Jesus mean when he said, "All Power is given unto me in heaven and in earth"?

It means the power he had in his earthen body was not of that body of death. The power not of his own self. The unseen father spoke through the Son of man putting his words on the lips of Jesus. . Just as he speaks through us "sent ones" (apostles) today who declare prophecy the gospel .Yet our High Apostle Jesus was without sin. He temporally lived in a body of Sin but his eternal Spirit is sinless.

2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

No power is attributed to the corrutped flesh. No such thing as holiness of the corrupted dying flesh

Romans 1:3-5 King James Version (KJV) Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead: By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:

In that way no man can serve two Masters (flesh and the spirit) as those who have the power of the one Spirit . (1) That in which the eyes see the temporal the Son of man, and #2 that in which unseen spirit works in us to reveal the eternal .

Jesus refused to stand in the holy unseen place of the father. .. an abomination of desolation. The place of the many antichrists.

Matthew 19:15-17 King James Version (KJV)And he laid his hands on them, and departed thence And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Hear him not seen the eternal One.The temporal is long gone
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,470
13,782
113
Yet our High Apostle Jesus was without sin. He temporally lived in a body of Sin but his eternal Spirit is sinless.
How do you figure that Jesus "lived in a body of Sin"? Either He was sinless or He was not sinless; there is no middle state between the two.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,470
13,782
113
Can you think of any?
This is exactly the kind of response that leads people to give up on attempting to converse with you. You made the assertion; you support it. That's how it works.
 

wolfwint

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2014
3,759
936
113
62
He is presently seated on David's throne in heavenly Jerusalem above.
Sorry to say, you tend to make statments without giving scriptual proof for it. Also you are coming with man wisedom, but not with Gods word.
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
8,048
1,609
113
Are you saying that if Rulers are Evil and running an Evil Administration, than Christians must not be subject to that Power? If yes, are you able to support this with Scripture?


Douay–Rheims Bible

The Douay–Rheims Bible (pronounced /ˌduːeɪ/ or /ˌdaʊ.eɪ ˈriːmz/[1]) (also known as the Rheims–Douai Bible or Douai Bible, and abbreviated as D–R and DRB) is a translation of the Bible from the Latin Vulgate into English made by members of the English College, Douai, in the service of the Catholic Church.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douay–Rheims_Bible


Lucifer invoked at the Vatican


Douay-Rheims Bible

Prophecy of Isaias (Isaiah) - Chapter 14

"...[12] How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, who didst rise in the morning? how art thou fallen to the earth, that didst wound the nations?..."

"...[12] "O Lucifer": O day star. All this, according to the letter, is spoken of the king of Babylon. It may also be applied, in a spiritual sense, to Lucifer the prince of devils, who was created a bright angel, but fell by pride and rebellion against God...."

http://www.drbo.org/cgi-bin/d?b=drb&bk=27&ch=14&l=12-#x

In post #115 and #194 I explained that the mark of the beast ect. were not present at that time and that the times of the fourth beast were still in effect. This is why the Apostles stated to see the masters over them as such the same as if they were still under/in the captivity(I.E. the Babylon,Persia,Greece Rome) but Rome was still over the world and as stated in the OT they were to build houses and dwell in them and accept the punishment until it was over.

The times of the Gentile rule over them as stated by Jesus(times of the gentiles/Matthew)so the earth is required to obey them as if from God. The image of the beast that ascends out of the pit and the mark to buy or sell you should not obey it is not part of the times of the gentile rule of Daniel. Please see the post I mentioned to save me from re-writing it.
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
8,048
1,609
113
“And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.” Revelation 11:15–18 (KJV 1900)

This is the end of the world, the judgement, and the destruction of those who destroy the earth.

That would be a short rule over the kingdoms of the world if you are correct right? That is Jesus destroys the world's kingdoms as soon as he rules over them?
 

Kolistus

Well-known member
Feb 3, 2020
538
276
63
It means the power he had in his earthen body was not of that body of death. The power not of his own self. The unseen father spoke through the Son of man putting his words on the lips of Jesus. . Just as he speaks through us "sent ones" (apostles) today who declare prophecy the gospel .Yet our High Apostle Jesus was without sin. He temporally lived in a body of Sin but his eternal Spirit is sinless.

2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

No power is attributed to the corrutped flesh. No such thing as holiness of the corrupted dying flesh

Romans 1:3-5 King James Version (KJV) Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead: By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:

In that way no man can serve two Masters (flesh and the spirit) as those who have the power of the one Spirit . (1) That in which the eyes see the temporal the Son of man, and #2 that in which unseen spirit works in us to reveal the eternal .

Jesus refused to stand in the holy unseen place of the father. .. an abomination of desolation. The place of the many antichrists.

Matthew 19:15-17 King James Version (KJV)And he laid his hands on them, and departed thence And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Hear him not seen the eternal One.The temporal is long gone
garee Im sorry I cant understand any of your posts. What are you saying?
 

Whispered

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2019
4,551
2,230
113
www.christiancourier.com
It means the power he had in his earthen body was not of that body of death. The power not of his own self. The unseen father spoke through the Son of man putting his words on the lips of Jesus. . Just as he speaks through us "sent ones" (apostles) today who declare prophecy the gospel .Yet our High Apostle Jesus was without sin. He temporally lived in a body of Sin but his eternal Spirit is sinless.

2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

No power is attributed to the corrutped flesh. No such thing as holiness of the corrupted dying flesh

Romans 1:3-5 King James Version (KJV) Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead: By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:

In that way no man can serve two Masters (flesh and the spirit) as those who have the power of the one Spirit . (1) That in which the eyes see the temporal the Son of man, and #2 that in which unseen spirit works in us to reveal the eternal .

Jesus refused to stand in the holy unseen place of the father. .. an abomination of desolation. The place of the many antichrists.

Matthew 19:15-17 King James Version (KJV)And he laid his hands on them, and departed thence And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Hear him not seen the eternal One.The temporal is long gone
Jesus was sinless. The pure unblemished lamb without spot. As scripture says. This tells us Jesus did not have a sin nature, Jesus was not born into a body of sin, sin had no thing to do with Jesus. He was tempted, yes. That isn't a reflection on Jesus nor does it say He was in sin and that's how He could be tempted.
The object of temptation is on the tempter, not on the one the tempter tempts. Jesus was without sin. Otherwise he could not be the last unblemished lamb sacrificed to take upon Himself the sins of the world.

The Book of 1st John 2
Jesus Our Advocate
1My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you will not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate before the Father—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. 2He Himself is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world. 3By this we can be sure that we have come to know Him: if we keep His commandments.…

100 scriptures regarding Jesus was without sin:
2 Corinthians 5:21

For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,470
13,782
113
Jesus was sinless. The pure unblemished lamb without spot. As scripture says. This tells us Jesus did not have a sin nature, Jesus was not born into a body of sin, sin had no thing to do with Jesus. He was tempted, yes. That isn't a reflection on Jesus nor does it say He was in sin and that's how He could be tempted.
Agreed, so far.

The object of temptation is on the tempter, not on the one the tempter tempts.
That violates grammatical rules, and a redefines the concept of temptation.

If Jesus could not be tempted, He did not "overcome" temptation!
 
Apr 3, 2019
1,495
768
113
This is again where I believe everyone reading the plain meaning of Matthew 5:14 understands its symbolic.

But in Revelation we got specific materials mentioned, specific measurements... . thats why its harder to take it symbolically.
The materials are symbolic also.

(Rev 21:19 And the foundations of the wall of the city were garnished with all manner of precious stones. The first foundation was jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, a chalcedony; the fourth, an emerald )

(1 Pet 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ. )

Just as Jesus is the called the corner stone symbolically of the temple:

(Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone)

(Eph 2:2 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord)
 
Apr 3, 2019
1,495
768
113
Sorry to say, you tend to make statments without giving scriptual proof for it. Also you are coming with man wisedom, but not with Gods word.
It's right here:

(Luke 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David)


(Acts 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne)

(Acts 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.)

(Acts 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.)

(Acts 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear)

You are expecting an earthly throne (just as the Jews who rejected Jesus were). whereas Peter is saying it is in the heavenlies.
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
113
Jesus was sinless. The pure unblemished lamb without spot. As scripture says. This tells us Jesus did not have a sin nature, Jesus was not born into a body of sin, sin had no thing to do with Jesus. He was tempted, yes. That isn't a reflection on Jesus nor does it say He was in sin and that's how He could be tempted.
The object of temptation is on the tempter, not on the one the tempter tempts. Jesus was without sin. Otherwise he could not be the last unblemished lamb sacrificed to take upon Himself the sins of the world.

The Book of 1st John 2
Jesus Our Advocate
1My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you will not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate before the Father—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. 2He Himself is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world. 3By this we can be sure that we have come to know Him: if we keep His commandments.…

100 scriptures regarding Jesus was without sin:
2 Corinthians 5:21

For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.
I did not say he sinned but lived in a body of sin or called a body of death . Salvation is not reckoned after what the eyes see. But is after the unseen work of the Spirit.

Jesus as the Son of man (real corrupted flesh and blood.)Was not a vision as a theophany like Melchezedek. His body according to the law informs us it must be typified as corrupted as in aging, dying leading to death and destruction . This is on order to do what the letter of the law could not. Develop faith as a law.

His flesh like ours was used as a one time demonstration of the lamb of God who was slain thousands of years earlier in the 6 days God as the actual work. He rested on the 7th day to represent the words of Christ. . "It is finished" .

Some did know Christ according to what they eyes see for that 33 year window of opportunity .

We know him no more forever that way. God is not a man as us and neither is their any fleshly mediator as a infallible umpire to stand between God not seen and man seen. Again one demonstration of the lamb of God slain from the foundation. No need for another..

2 Corinthians 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
10,887
2,113
113
[…] Salvation is not reckoned after what the eyes see. But is after the unseen work of the Spirit.
[…]
His flesh like ours was used as a one time demonstration of the lamb of God who was slain thousands of years earlier in the 6 days God as the actual work. […]
Some did know Christ according to what they eyes see for that 33 year window of opportunity .
So, in the "Resurrection Chapter" (1Cor15), what do you believe Paul meant when he said,

"And last of all, He appeared also to me, as to one of untimely birth." 1Cor15:8 (said by Paul).

In what sense would you say this occurred? "Seen" or "unseen" (as you put it)?
 

Whispered

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2019
4,551
2,230
113
www.christiancourier.com
I did not say he sinned but lived in a body of sin or called a body of death . Salvation is not reckoned after what the eyes see. But is after the unseen work of the Spirit.

Jesus as the Son of man (real corrupted flesh and blood.)Was not a vision as a theophany like Melchezedek. His body according to the law informs us it must be typified as corrupted as in aging, dying leading to death and destruction . This is on order to do what the letter of the law could not. Develop faith as a law.

His flesh like ours was used as a one time demonstration of the lamb of God who was slain thousands of years earlier in the 6 days God as the actual work. He rested on the 7th day to represent the words of Christ. . "It is finished" .

Some did know Christ according to what they eyes see for that 33 year window of opportunity .

We know him no more forever that way. God is not a man as us and neither is their any fleshly mediator as a infallible umpire to stand between God not seen and man seen. Again one demonstration of the lamb of God slain from the foundation. No need for another..

2 Corinthians 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
I don't think that 2nd Corinthians verse says what you think it means to say.
Jesus was God, the Holy Spirit, not man, that created all things of and from Himself. Colossians chapter 1.
He was flesh and blood human, however His nature was not sinful, nor was His flesh. To believe that would mean Holy Spirit God who covered Mary, whom He favored in His grace, forgave of her sins, so as to knit Himself together , begat Himself, in her womb, would knit together as Holy Spirt, corruption that would walk the Earth as Savior from corruption.
That would make not for an unblemished lamb of God without spot, as Jesus was called. The Book of 1st Peter chapter 1. You're mistaken about the body of Christ, the human body.

(CKB Version) The Book of Romans chapter 8:3 For what the Torah could not do by itself, because it lacked the power to make the old nature cooperate, God did by sending his own Son as a human being with a nature like our own sinful one [but without sin]. God did this in order to deal with sin, and in so doing he executed the punishment against sin in human nature,

ESV=3 For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin,[c] he condemned sin in the flesh....

Sinful=ἁμαρτία (hamartia)
Strong: G266
GK: G281
error; offence, sin, Mt. 1:21; a principle or cause of sin, Rom. 7:7; proneness to sin, sinful propensity, Rom. 7:17, 20; guilt or imputation of sin, Jn. 9:41; Heb. 9:26; a guilty subject, sin-offering, expiatory victim, 2 Cor. 5:21


Flesh=σάρξ (sarx)
Strong: G4561
GK: G4922
flesh, Lk. 24:39; Jn. 3:6; the human body, 2 Cor. 7:5; flesh, human nature, human frame, Jn. 1:13, 14; 1 Pet. 4:1; 1 Jn. 4:2; kindred, Rom. 11:14; lineage, Rom. 1:3; 9:3; flesh, humanity, human beings, Mt. 24:22; Lk. 3:6; Jn. 17:2; the circumstances of the body, material condition, 1 Cor. 5:5; 7:28; Phlm. 16; flesh, mere humanity, human fashion, 1 Cor. 1:26; 2 Cor. 1:17; flesh as the seat of passion and frailty, Rom. 8:1, 3, 5; carnality, Gal. 5:24; materiality, material circumstance, as opposed to the spiritual, Phil. 3:3, 4; Col. 2:18; a material system or mode, Gal. 3:3; Heb. 9:10



The Epistle to the Hebrews chapter 2:14 Since therefore the children share in flesh and blood, he himself likewise partook of the same things, that through death he might destroy the one who has the power of death, that is, the devil, 15 and deliver all those who through fear of death were subject to lifelong slavery. 16 For surely it is not angels that he helps, but he helps the offspring of Abraham. 17 Therefore he had to be made like his brothers in every respect, so that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in the service of God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. 18 For because he himself has suffered when tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted.

Chapter 4:14 Since then we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus, the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession. 15 For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
The materials are symbolic also.

(Rev 21:19 And the foundations of the wall of the city were garnished with all manner of precious stones. The first foundation was jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, a chalcedony; the fourth, an emerald )

(1 Pet 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ. )

Just as Jesus is the called the corner stone symbolically of the temple:

(Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone)

(Eph 2:2 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord)
The context of the first one n heaven is a building

the second is the body of Christ here on earth

its an aweful stretch to assume they are the same.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
It's right here:

(Luke 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David)


(Acts 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne)

(Acts 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.)

(Acts 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.)

(Acts 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear)

You are expecting an earthly throne (just as the Jews who rejected Jesus were). whereas Peter is saying it is in the heavenlies.
Once again, a prety bad assumption especially since

1. Davids throne is on earth
2. then OT says messiah will assume davids throne
3. david has no throne in heaven, that would make him deity.