The Tribulation and the Church, WHEN?
- Thread starter bluto
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
No, they did not crucify Jesus based on the Scriptures, they crucified Jesus based on what He said. 
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
1 Cor 15
"For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures"
Acts 2
"this Man, delivered over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, you nailed to a cross by the hands of godless men and put Him to death. "
^ Along with what 1Cor2:8 says, Acts 3:17,18,12-13["His Servant Jesus"], [22-23], 24["told of these days" (His "Suffering Servant" days)], 26["His Suffering Servant"]… shows that they MISSED [grasping] His coming [first advent] because they overlooked/bypassed the "Suffering Servant" aspects of the OT prophecies... (and expected only His "reigning KING" prophecies), by doing so, thus themselves "fulfilled" those very prophecies (concerning also His "death," v.15)
I can't lie, I did not read this whole LONG comment because it's just too early and I'm just not in the mood, but these last two sentences stood out to me.
"The tribulation did not happen in the first century, and how can that tiny incident be the greatest persecution ever.
The first attack on Jerusalem by the Roman Empire because they rejected Jesus so God caused them to be scattered in the nations."
First have you ever read the accounts of what happen to the Jews in 70 AD? Oh my goodness, try telling them it was a "tiny incident", and almost comes off as uninformed, because "tiny incident" isn't a way I've ever heard it described. This is the incident that ended an age (not the physical world), and destroyed all the genealogies along with the whole preisthood, and brick by brick removed Gods temple from the earth to this very day, just as He said. Everything Jesus said was going to happen did, the covenant breakers were judged, The age ended, He NOW SITS,(as in the work is finished just like He said) and has ALL authority in heaven and on earth and reigns as a perfect King until EVERYTHING is made a footstool for His feet.
That is the news my King has blessed me with, and I will proclaim His power to save the lost and dead until the day He brings me home. I am not waiting for satan to overtake this world, and don't believe he will anymore, my King says the righteous shall inherit the earth and in Him we are made righteous, and our King is powerful, and this world belongs to Him. I will not give this clown satan any false power, and power he appears to have is an illusion anyway. He has no power and we need to boldly speak that. Not bolster him up with things like "the whole world is going to hell in a hand-basket, and there is nothing you can do about it." NO!!! That's the biggest deception of all, that we are powerless. We are not, we are made for a purpose, and in Him we are made powerful.
Jesus Christ is King, He is King right now today and is calling all to come. Come to the King, our Savior, the one born into His creation as a 100% man. The man that was born whole as intended, and not fallen, and conceived of the Holy Spirit and born of a virgin. The 2nd Adam, born spiritually whole and connected to the Father. He was without sin, although tempted in every way, Jesus never transgressed the Fathers will, and modeled how we are to live perfectly. Then This Creator made flesh, Jesus, this perfect Godman submitted His life surrendering everything to the Fathers will, He laid down His life so that us rebellious, idolatrous, unclean, ungrateful, and unworthy people that He loves might be reconciled to Himself through the perfect sacrifice, the man without sin had our wrath, the punishment we earned, put on Him so that through His blood we might be reconciled to the father as we were created to be.
Praise the name of Jesus!!! Holla-boo-ya, that's the very good news, for all.
"The tribulation did not happen in the first century, and how can that tiny incident be the greatest persecution ever.
The first attack on Jerusalem by the Roman Empire because they rejected Jesus so God caused them to be scattered in the nations."
First have you ever read the accounts of what happen to the Jews in 70 AD? Oh my goodness, try telling them it was a "tiny incident", and almost comes off as uninformed, because "tiny incident" isn't a way I've ever heard it described. This is the incident that ended an age (not the physical world), and destroyed all the genealogies along with the whole preisthood, and brick by brick removed Gods temple from the earth to this very day, just as He said. Everything Jesus said was going to happen did, the covenant breakers were judged, The age ended, He NOW SITS,(as in the work is finished just like He said) and has ALL authority in heaven and on earth and reigns as a perfect King until EVERYTHING is made a footstool for His feet.
That is the news my King has blessed me with, and I will proclaim His power to save the lost and dead until the day He brings me home. I am not waiting for satan to overtake this world, and don't believe he will anymore, my King says the righteous shall inherit the earth and in Him we are made righteous, and our King is powerful, and this world belongs to Him. I will not give this clown satan any false power, and power he appears to have is an illusion anyway. He has no power and we need to boldly speak that. Not bolster him up with things like "the whole world is going to hell in a hand-basket, and there is nothing you can do about it." NO!!! That's the biggest deception of all, that we are powerless. We are not, we are made for a purpose, and in Him we are made powerful.
Jesus Christ is King, He is King right now today and is calling all to come. Come to the King, our Savior, the one born into His creation as a 100% man. The man that was born whole as intended, and not fallen, and conceived of the Holy Spirit and born of a virgin. The 2nd Adam, born spiritually whole and connected to the Father. He was without sin, although tempted in every way, Jesus never transgressed the Fathers will, and modeled how we are to live perfectly. Then This Creator made flesh, Jesus, this perfect Godman submitted His life surrendering everything to the Fathers will, He laid down His life so that us rebellious, idolatrous, unclean, ungrateful, and unworthy people that He loves might be reconciled to Himself through the perfect sacrifice, the man without sin had our wrath, the punishment we earned, put on Him so that through His blood we might be reconciled to the father as we were created to be.
Praise the name of Jesus!!! Holla-boo-ya, that's the very good news, for all.
-
1
- Show all
In addition to the TWO [distinct] "raise" aspects found in Acts 3 (one referring to His earthly ministry BEFORE His death; the other referring to His "resurrection" AFTER His death), which "Amill-teachings" fail to distinguish in this text, thus resulting in their faulty perspective on v.21 and what it actually speaks to...
there is also the following to consider:
The wording of 2 Thessalonians 2:7b-8a is very similar to that of Lamentations 2:3-4 (in the context of "WRATH" words and "judgments" on Israel),
--where it [2Th2:7-8a] says, "the one restraining at present, will restrain, UNTIL out of the midst he be come [come to be], AND THEN shall that Wicked be revealed..." ; and
--Lam2:3-4 says (in very similar language), "...he hath drawn back his right hand from before the enemy [effectively saying (to their enemies) 'HAVE AT IT!'/'go ahead, sic 'em!'], and he burned against Jacob like like a flaming fire, which devoureth round about."
IOW, I believe this will only take place when Jesus will "STAND to JUDGE" [Isa3:13, Rev4-5--at the START of the future "7-yrs," paralleling Matt24:4/Mk13:5 "G1500 - tis - 'A CERTAIN ONE'" and 2Th2:9a "whose COMING/advent/arrival/presence" of the man of sin "IN HIS TIME," parallel of the "INITIAL birth PANG [SINGULAR; already mentioned in the Matt24:4/Mk13:5 verse; but also here in 1Th5:2-3 'singular' birth PANG]," at the START of the 7-yrs, just as in Daniel 9:27[26] "prince THAT SHALL COME" / "for ONE WEEK [7 yrs]")
--the "whose COMING" v.9a and the v.8a "be revealed" of the "man of sin" is at the START of the 7-yrs, equivalent to the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR (1Th5:2-3); Matt24:4/Mk13:5 G5100 - tis - 'A CERTAIN ONE']" i.e. SEAL #1 rider of the white horse with a "bow" (often representing "deception"), parallel with Dan9:27a[26 - "prince THAT SHALL COME"... and "for ONE WEEK [7-yrs]"]--so this is at the START of the 7-yrs, not at its MIDDLE, and not at its END; 2Th2:3-9a is covering ALL 7 yrs (in its THREE PARTS: its BEGINNING, its MIDDLE, its END), just as Dan9:27[26] is: its BEGINNING, its MIDDLE, its END [7-yrs]
Jesus will be the One to OPEN the SEALS (the first one being the above-mentioned "ARRIVAL" of "the man of sin" at the START of the 7-yr period)
there is also the following to consider:
The wording of 2 Thessalonians 2:7b-8a is very similar to that of Lamentations 2:3-4 (in the context of "WRATH" words and "judgments" on Israel),
--where it [2Th2:7-8a] says, "the one restraining at present, will restrain, UNTIL out of the midst he be come [come to be], AND THEN shall that Wicked be revealed..." ; and
--Lam2:3-4 says (in very similar language), "...he hath drawn back his right hand from before the enemy [effectively saying (to their enemies) 'HAVE AT IT!'/'go ahead, sic 'em!'], and he burned against Jacob like like a flaming fire, which devoureth round about."
IOW, I believe this will only take place when Jesus will "STAND to JUDGE" [Isa3:13, Rev4-5--at the START of the future "7-yrs," paralleling Matt24:4/Mk13:5 "G1500 - tis - 'A CERTAIN ONE'" and 2Th2:9a "whose COMING/advent/arrival/presence" of the man of sin "IN HIS TIME," parallel of the "INITIAL birth PANG [SINGULAR; already mentioned in the Matt24:4/Mk13:5 verse; but also here in 1Th5:2-3 'singular' birth PANG]," at the START of the 7-yrs, just as in Daniel 9:27[26] "prince THAT SHALL COME" / "for ONE WEEK [7 yrs]")
--the "whose COMING" v.9a and the v.8a "be revealed" of the "man of sin" is at the START of the 7-yrs, equivalent to the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR (1Th5:2-3); Matt24:4/Mk13:5 G5100 - tis - 'A CERTAIN ONE']" i.e. SEAL #1 rider of the white horse with a "bow" (often representing "deception"), parallel with Dan9:27a[26 - "prince THAT SHALL COME"... and "for ONE WEEK [7-yrs]"]--so this is at the START of the 7-yrs, not at its MIDDLE, and not at its END; 2Th2:3-9a is covering ALL 7 yrs (in its THREE PARTS: its BEGINNING, its MIDDLE, its END), just as Dan9:27[26] is: its BEGINNING, its MIDDLE, its END [7-yrs]
Jesus will be the One to OPEN the SEALS (the first one being the above-mentioned "ARRIVAL" of "the man of sin" at the START of the 7-yr period)
Catholisicim like faithless Israel with the example of Rachel, hiding the familiar spirits gods (family idols as teraphims) from her father.
It is founded on wild as serious claims. So serious they perform them and receive the strong delusion that comes with the lies on order to keep them as God keeps his word. .
The word "seek" darash/ necromancy is used in two ways in Isaiah . The first seek in verse 19 as having a false faith that comes from hearing men that were once on earth . as assumed workers with familiar spirits (patron saints).
Seeking as if they were seeking after our unseen Father in heaven called "This Manner"as in one id our God. . and not "manners" plural of seeking after (3500 patron saints and rising picking up speed multiply in these last days.. )as many father are our God.
The second use of the word darash seeking, is as our father draws us. . the true light of men not light from venerable men.
And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them. Isaiah 8:19-20
I would ask... should not a people seek unto their living God? for the living God to give life to the dead. . rather than the dead to the living.?
Turning things upside down taking away the understanding that does come from above.
Matthew 6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
They hallow venerate dead men .. . .their name
It is founded on wild as serious claims. So serious they perform them and receive the strong delusion that comes with the lies on order to keep them as God keeps his word. .
The word "seek" darash/ necromancy is used in two ways in Isaiah . The first seek in verse 19 as having a false faith that comes from hearing men that were once on earth . as assumed workers with familiar spirits (patron saints).
Seeking as if they were seeking after our unseen Father in heaven called "This Manner"as in one id our God. . and not "manners" plural of seeking after (3500 patron saints and rising picking up speed multiply in these last days.. )as many father are our God.
The second use of the word darash seeking, is as our father draws us. . the true light of men not light from venerable men.
And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them. Isaiah 8:19-20
I would ask... should not a people seek unto their living God? for the living God to give life to the dead. . rather than the dead to the living.?
Turning things upside down taking away the understanding that does come from above.
Matthew 6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
They hallow venerate dead men .. . .their name
Like all words a meaning is attached as a law not subject to change. Prophecy. . . "The gift of interpretation" sent with is own signified interpretation giving us a desire to seek His approval .
Yes, Not at all as it declares the same somewhat differently. ( past. present. future. . . times and seasons ) Not a time sensitive word .like rest or faith .
Prophecy the declared will of God. The tongue of God.
What are some of these unbiblical conclusions that come from following prophecy. ?
Yes, Not at all as it declares the same somewhat differently. ( past. present. future. . . times and seasons ) Not a time sensitive word .like rest or faith .
Prophecy the declared will of God. The tongue of God.
What are some of these unbiblical conclusions that come from following prophecy. ?
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/isaiah/46-10.htm "the end",,,that's the prophecy God said he declared in the beginning...and he will cause it to "come to pass".
-
1
- Show all
You know, it would be nice for you to learn how to read. I know what the gospel is but here is the quote of what was said, "They crucified Jesus on their understanding of scripture."
I'll say it again, they crucified Jesus Christ based on what He said or claimed. For instance, Jesus said, "But He answered them (the Pharisees/Jews) "My Father is working until now, and I Myself am working." (John 5:17).
John 5:18, For this cause therefore the Jews were seeking ALL THE MORE TO KILL HIM, because (or why?) He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, MAKING HIMSELF EQUAL WITH GOD." Again, it is what Jesus said that prompted the Jews to want to accuse Jesus of blasphemy and wanting to kill Him." You need to learn to pay attention instead just "reacting" without thinking to what people say.
Btw, as a side note I went to the website you posted of your Chruch and read through most of it. They stated that Jesus Christ was "made" in the image of God which is not true. Look at Hebrews 1:3 and at Philippians 2:6 where it says He was always God and existed as God, not that He was made God.
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
I'll say it again, they crucified Jesus Christ based on what He said or claimed. For instance, Jesus said, "But He answered them (the Pharisees/Jews) "My Father is working until now, and I Myself am working." (John 5:17).
John 5:18, For this cause therefore the Jews were seeking ALL THE MORE TO KILL HIM, because (or why?) He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, MAKING HIMSELF EQUAL WITH GOD." Again, it is what Jesus said that prompted the Jews to want to accuse Jesus of blasphemy and wanting to kill Him." You need to learn to pay attention instead just "reacting" without thinking to what people say.
Btw, as a side note I went to the website you posted of your Chruch and read through most of it. They stated that Jesus Christ was "made" in the image of God which is not true. Look at Hebrews 1:3 and at Philippians 2:6 where it says He was always God and existed as God, not that He was made God.
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
-
1
- Show all
No. Words have meanings that are dependent on context. The Bible does not specifically define "prophecy"; it uses the term in several different ways, and if you impose the wrong meaning in a certain place, your conclusions about the meaning of the verse or passage will be incorrect at best and dangerous at worst.
Do I really need to list all the cults, fringe groups, failed predictions and nutcases out there to illustrate the point?
Do I really need to list all the cults, fringe groups, failed predictions and nutcases out there to illustrate the point?
-
1
- Show all
You know, it would be nice for you to learn how to read. I know what the gospel is but here is the quote of what was said, "They crucified Jesus on their understanding of scripture."
I'll say it again, they crucified Jesus Christ based on what He said or claimed. For instance, Jesus said, "But He answered them (the Pharisees/Jews) "My Father is working until now, and I Myself am working." (John 5:17).
John 5:18, For this cause therefore the Jews were seeking ALL THE MORE TO KILL HIM, because (or why?) He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, MAKING HIMSELF EQUAL WITH GOD." Again, it is what Jesus said that prompted the Jews to want to accuse Jesus of blasphemy and wanting to kill Him." You need to learn to pay attention instead just "reacting" without thinking to what people say.
Btw, as a side note I went to the website you posted of your Chruch and read through most of it. They stated that Jesus Christ was "made" in the image of God which is not true. Look at Hebrews 1:3 and at Philippians 2:6 where it says He was always God and existed as God, not that He was made God.
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
I'll say it again, they crucified Jesus Christ based on what He said or claimed. For instance, Jesus said, "But He answered them (the Pharisees/Jews) "My Father is working until now, and I Myself am working." (John 5:17).
John 5:18, For this cause therefore the Jews were seeking ALL THE MORE TO KILL HIM, because (or why?) He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, MAKING HIMSELF EQUAL WITH GOD." Again, it is what Jesus said that prompted the Jews to want to accuse Jesus of blasphemy and wanting to kill Him." You need to learn to pay attention instead just "reacting" without thinking to what people say.
Btw, as a side note I went to the website you posted of your Chruch and read through most of it. They stated that Jesus Christ was "made" in the image of God which is not true. Look at Hebrews 1:3 and at Philippians 2:6 where it says He was always God and existed as God, not that He was made God.
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
You refer to someone else.
LOL!
( I'm sorry this made me laugh... lol... we all make mistakes, it's fine! )
bluto said:
You know, it would be nice for you to learn how to read.
[...]
Btw, as a side note I went to the website you posted of your Chruch and read through most of it. They stated that Jesus Christ was "made" in the image of God which is not true. Look at Hebrews 1:3 and at Philippians 2:6 where it says He was always God and existed as God, not that He was made God.
You know, it would be nice for you to learn how to read.
[...]
Btw, as a side note I went to the website you posted of your Chruch and read through most of it. They stated that Jesus Christ was "made" in the image of God which is not true. Look at Hebrews 1:3 and at Philippians 2:6 where it says He was always God and existed as God, not that He was made God.
( I'm sorry this made me laugh... lol... we all make mistakes, it's fine! )-
1
- Show all
as you should. its coming......... right after the tribulation
There is a huge difference between trials and tribulation that come at the hands of men and the powers of darkness vs. God's coming wrath, the later of which believers are not appointed to suffer.
-
1
- Show all