The Tribulation and the Church, WHEN?

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cv5

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Nov 20, 2018
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Especially since rev is dated around 90 ad and the historicist thinks he was shown history,not prophecy
I anticipate our Blessed Hope. Waiting.
 

bluto

Senior Member
Aug 4, 2016
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They crucified Jesus on their understanding of scripture.
Your understanding of scripture is not meritorious.
Neither is taking verses that are not fulfilled and convincing those in your circles they are,meritorious.
And no,nobody here can quote duteronomy like you verbatum.
No, they did not crucify Jesus based on the Scriptures, they crucified Jesus based on what He said. :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 

cv5

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Nov 20, 2018
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No, they did not crucify Jesus based on the Scriptures, they crucified Jesus based on what He said. :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
Apostate.

1 Cor 15

"For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures"

Acts 2

"this Man, delivered over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, you nailed to a cross by the hands of godless men and put Him to death. "
 

TheDivineWatermark

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^ Along with what 1Cor2:8 says, Acts 3:17,18,12-13["His Servant Jesus"], [22-23], 24["told of these days" (His "Suffering Servant" days)], 26["His Suffering Servant"]… shows that they MISSED [grasping] His coming [first advent] because they overlooked/bypassed the "Suffering Servant" aspects of the OT prophecies... (and expected only His "reigning KING" prophecies), by doing so, thus themselves "fulfilled" those very prophecies (concerning also His "death," v.15)
 

Jimbone

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Aug 22, 2014
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Continued,

The New Age Christ will step in to the Jews temple and tell them to stop animal sacrifices, and he is their God and Messiah.

He will address the world that he evolved through the power of nature for the Christ conscience came upon him, and the false prophet will do miracles in the sight of people to convince the world that the beast did receive power through nature, and shared this power with the false prophet, and will share this power with all who follow the beast.

Which Jesus said the lying wonders will appear so real that it would deceive the elect if it were possible, but of course it is not possible for they know it is not true.

When the world takes the mark of the beast then repentance and salvation are no longer available to the world, and the fulness of the Gentiles have come in, which the mark is the microchip linked to satellite, which the beast's agenda is there is no personal God to help mankind, but they can achieve peace on earth by their own efforts, and technology.

Which they will know of everyone's location on earth, and if a crime happens they will know how who was in the area, and how close they were to the crime scene, and can find lost children.

Which Bill Clinton said people that get guns should have a chip, and the guns compatible, so only the person that owns the gun can fire the gun, and Donald Trump said that if they had a device for people on temporary visas 911 could of been avoided.

During the last three and one half years God will send Israel 2 witnesses to turn them to the truth that Jesus is their Messiah, and at the end of that time Israel as a nation will be in the truth, and the 70 weeks fulfilled.

When the man of sin claims to be God then the saints can be gathered unto Christ, but the Bible says that he shall make war against the saints and prevail against them, and they shall be given in to his hands for three and one half years, and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people then all things are finished.

Which then comes the end when the Son shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, the Father, and have put down all rule, authority, and power.

That is why it is the greatest persecution ever against the truth for it is on a world wide scale, both Jew and Gentile saints being persecuted.

But the Bible says in Revelation 12 that Israel is protected from from physical attack for the 7 years period, for God has the plan to turn them to the truth, and restore the kingdom to them in the millennial reign of Christ.

So this persecution has to be world wide, and at the beginning of the last three and one half years the 2 witnesses only started witnessing to Israel so they are still blinded in part, so the persecution cannot be against Israel but against the world both Jew and Gentile.

There is no pre- 7 years resurrection of the saints for repentance and salvation is still available to the world for the first three and one half years, and the beast has power to rule for the last three and one half years, which this power can only come from God, and if He is allowing the beast to rule then He will not go against the world until the 7 years period is over.

The wrath of God is not in the 7 years period, and the 7 trumpets are warnings to the world to get right with God.

At the end of the 7 years period the saints that remain will be caught up to Jesus, and then the wrath of God will be poured upon the world leading up to the battle of Armageddon, and the LORD my God shall come and all the saints will thee, and Jesus will come back with the saints, and defeat the world, and save Israel, and so all Israel shall be saved.

And then Jesus and the saints will rule over one sixth of the world that God spared.

Which Jesus said until heaven and earth pass away not one tittle or jot shall pass from the law until all is fulfilled, which Jesus was a sinless man, and had to fulfill all the roles of Israel, king, prophet, high priest, saint, temple, sacrifice, and whatever else He had to fulfill.

But He has not fulfilled the role of perfect king on earth, and it has to be done on earth for it to be effective, and He will do that in the millennial reign.

And then when it is over heaven and earth shall pass, and there will be a new heaven and earth wherein dwells righteousness where sin has never been and sin will never be, and rebellion will never come up again, and the former earth shall not be remembered, nor come to mind, for it is associated with sin and rebellion, and the angels and saints will remember nothing prior to the New Jerusalem, but will feel as if they were always there and nowhere else.

The tribulation is the last three and one half years, and is the greatest persecution against the truth in the history of the Church for it is on a world wide scale.

The tribulation did not happen in the first century, and how can that tiny incident be the greatest persecution ever.

The first attack on Jerusalem by the Roman Empire because they rejected Jesus so God caused them to be scattered in the nations.

The second attack on Jerusalem by the world because they accepted Jesus and He saves them from the world.
I can't lie, I did not read this whole LONG comment because it's just too early and I'm just not in the mood, but these last two sentences stood out to me.

"The tribulation did not happen in the first century, and how can that tiny incident be the greatest persecution ever.
The first attack on Jerusalem by the Roman Empire because they rejected Jesus so God caused them to be scattered in the nations."

First have you ever read the accounts of what happen to the Jews in 70 AD? Oh my goodness, try telling them it was a "tiny incident", and almost comes off as uninformed, because "tiny incident" isn't a way I've ever heard it described. This is the incident that ended an age (not the physical world), and destroyed all the genealogies along with the whole preisthood, and brick by brick removed Gods temple from the earth to this very day, just as He said. Everything Jesus said was going to happen did, the covenant breakers were judged, The age ended, He NOW SITS,(as in the work is finished just like He said) and has ALL authority in heaven and on earth and reigns as a perfect King until EVERYTHING is made a footstool for His feet.

That is the news my King has blessed me with, and I will proclaim His power to save the lost and dead until the day He brings me home. I am not waiting for satan to overtake this world, and don't believe he will anymore, my King says the righteous shall inherit the earth and in Him we are made righteous, and our King is powerful, and this world belongs to Him. I will not give this clown satan any false power, and power he appears to have is an illusion anyway. He has no power and we need to boldly speak that. Not bolster him up with things like "the whole world is going to hell in a hand-basket, and there is nothing you can do about it." NO!!! That's the biggest deception of all, that we are powerless. We are not, we are made for a purpose, and in Him we are made powerful.

Jesus Christ is King, He is King right now today and is calling all to come. Come to the King, our Savior, the one born into His creation as a 100% man. The man that was born whole as intended, and not fallen, and conceived of the Holy Spirit and born of a virgin. The 2nd Adam, born spiritually whole and connected to the Father. He was without sin, although tempted in every way, Jesus never transgressed the Fathers will, and modeled how we are to live perfectly. Then This Creator made flesh, Jesus, this perfect Godman submitted His life surrendering everything to the Fathers will, He laid down His life so that us rebellious, idolatrous, unclean, ungrateful, and unworthy people that He loves might be reconciled to Himself through the perfect sacrifice, the man without sin had our wrath, the punishment we earned, put on Him so that through His blood we might be reconciled to the father as we were created to be.

Praise the name of Jesus!!! Holla-boo-ya, that's the very good news, for all.
 

TheDivineWatermark

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Aug 3, 2018
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In addition to the TWO [distinct] "raise" aspects found in Acts 3 (one referring to His earthly ministry BEFORE His death; the other referring to His "resurrection" AFTER His death), which "Amill-teachings" fail to distinguish in this text, thus resulting in their faulty perspective on v.21 and what it actually speaks to...

there is also the following to consider:


The wording of 2 Thessalonians 2:7b-8a is very similar to that of Lamentations 2:3-4 (in the context of "WRATH" words and "judgments" on Israel),

--where it [2Th2:7-8a] says, "the one restraining at present, will restrain, UNTIL out of the midst he be come [come to be], AND THEN shall that Wicked be revealed..." ; and

--Lam2:3-4 says (in very similar language), "...he hath drawn back his right hand from before the enemy [effectively saying (to their enemies) 'HAVE AT IT!'/'go ahead, sic 'em!'], and he burned against Jacob like like a flaming fire, which devoureth round about."


IOW, I believe this will only take place when Jesus will "STAND to JUDGE" [Isa3:13, Rev4-5--at the START of the future "7-yrs," paralleling Matt24:4/Mk13:5 "G1500 - tis - 'A CERTAIN ONE'" and 2Th2:9a "whose COMING/advent/arrival/presence" of the man of sin "IN HIS TIME," parallel of the "INITIAL birth PANG [SINGULAR; already mentioned in the Matt24:4/Mk13:5 verse; but also here in 1Th5:2-3 'singular' birth PANG]," at the START of the 7-yrs, just as in Daniel 9:27[26] "prince THAT SHALL COME" / "for ONE WEEK [7 yrs]")


--the "whose COMING" v.9a and the v.8a "be revealed" of the "man of sin" is at the START of the 7-yrs, equivalent to the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR (1Th5:2-3); Matt24:4/Mk13:5 G5100 - tis - 'A CERTAIN ONE']" i.e. SEAL #1 rider of the white horse with a "bow" (often representing "deception"), parallel with Dan9:27a[26 - "prince THAT SHALL COME"... and "for ONE WEEK [7-yrs]"]--so this is at the START of the 7-yrs, not at its MIDDLE, and not at its END; 2Th2:3-9a is covering ALL 7 yrs (in its THREE PARTS: its BEGINNING, its MIDDLE, its END), just as Dan9:27[26] is: its BEGINNING, its MIDDLE, its END [7-yrs]


Jesus will be the One to OPEN the SEALS (the first one being the above-mentioned "ARRIVAL" of "the man of sin" at the START of the 7-yr period)
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
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I can't lie, I did not read this whole LONG comment because it's just too early and I'm just not in the mood, but these last two sentences stood out to me.

"The tribulation did not happen in the first century, and how can that tiny incident be the greatest persecution ever.
The first attack on Jerusalem by the Roman Empire because they rejected Jesus so God caused them to be scattered in the nations."

First have you ever read the accounts of what happen to the Jews in 70 AD? Oh my goodness, try telling them it was a "tiny incident", and almost comes off as uninformed, because "tiny incident" isn't a way I've ever heard it described. This is the incident that ended an age (not the physical world), and destroyed all the genealogies along with the whole preisthood, and brick by brick removed Gods temple from the earth to this very day, just as He said. Everything Jesus said was going to happen did, the covenant breakers were judged, The age ended, He NOW SITS,(as in the work is finished just like He said) and has ALL authority in heaven and on earth and reigns as a perfect King until EVERYTHING is made a footstool for His feet.

That is the news my King has blessed me with, and I will proclaim His power to save the lost and dead until the day He brings me home. I am not waiting for satan to overtake this world, and don't believe he will anymore, my King says the righteous shall inherit the earth and in Him we are made righteous, and our King is powerful, and this world belongs to Him. I will not give this clown satan any false power, and power he appears to have is an illusion anyway. He has no power and we need to boldly speak that. Not bolster him up with things like "the whole world is going to hell in a hand-basket, and there is nothing you can do about it." NO!!! That's the biggest deception of all, that we are powerless. We are not, we are made for a purpose, and in Him we are made powerful.

Jesus Christ is King, He is King right now today and is calling all to come. Come to the King, our Savior, the one born into His creation as a 100% man. The man that was born whole as intended, and not fallen, and conceived of the Holy Spirit and born of a virgin. The 2nd Adam, born spiritually whole and connected to the Father. He was without sin, although tempted in every way, Jesus never transgressed the Fathers will, and modeled how we are to live perfectly. Then This Creator made flesh, Jesus, this perfect Godman submitted His life surrendering everything to the Fathers will, He laid down His life so that us rebellious, idolatrous, unclean, ungrateful, and unworthy people that He loves might be reconciled to Himself through the perfect sacrifice, the man without sin had our wrath, the punishment we earned, put on Him so that through His blood we might be reconciled to the father as we were created to be.

Praise the name of Jesus!!! Holla-boo-ya, that's the very good news, for all.
More than 2/3 of the population of the entire planet (planet earth globally) will perish in the GT.
Get some perspective on reality.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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Get a clue. All prophecy is futurist. Some people get it some don't.

Prophecy, the declared will of God.

All what prophecy is futuristic? The ones that do speak of the future, the present or past?

In the beginning God created.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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Get a clue. All prophecy is futurist. Some people get it some don't.
Could you clarify your statement? Do you mean that all prophecy speaks of events in the future relative to the time of writing, or that the correct interpretation of all prophecy is "futurist" as in, the events will take place after about 2000 AD (or some other particular date long after 33 AD)?
 

Dino246

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Jun 30, 2015
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Prophecy, the declared will of God.

All what prophecy is futuristic? The ones that do speak of the future, the present or past?

In the beginning God created.
Genesis 1:1 is not prophecy in the same way (at all!) that Matthew 24 or Daniel 9 are prophecy. Holding to an extremely rigid definition of prophecy will (and has) resulted in some unbiblical conclusions.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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Nobody takes those wild claims seriously.
"...burning their children and contacting the dead..."
Nobody here or anywhere (except crazies and hillary) are doing that.
Catholisicim like faithless Israel with the example of Rachel, hiding the familiar spirits gods (family idols as teraphims) from her father.

It is founded on wild as serious claims. So serious they perform them and receive the strong delusion that comes with the lies on order to keep them as God keeps his word. .

The word "seek" darash/ necromancy is used in two ways in Isaiah . The first seek in verse 19 as having a false faith that comes from hearing men that were once on earth . as assumed workers with familiar spirits (patron saints).

Seeking as if they were seeking after our unseen Father in heaven called "This Manner"as in one id our God. . and not "manners" plural of seeking after (3500 patron saints and rising picking up speed multiply in these last days.. )as many father are our God.

The second use of the word darash seeking, is as our father draws us. . the true light of men not light from venerable men.

And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them. Isaiah 8:19-20

I would ask... should not a people seek unto their living God? for the living God to give life to the dead. . rather than the dead to the living.?

Turning things upside down taking away the understanding that does come from above.


Matthew 6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

They hallow venerate dead men .. . .their name
 
Mar 28, 2016
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Genesis 1:1 is not prophecy in the same way (at all!) that Matthew 24 or Daniel 9 are prophecy. Holding to an extremely rigid definition of prophecy will (and has) resulted in some unbiblical conclusions.
Like all words a meaning is attached as a law not subject to change. Prophecy. . . "The gift of interpretation" sent with is own signified interpretation giving us a desire to seek His approval .

Yes, Not at all as it declares the same somewhat differently. ( past. present. future. . . times and seasons ) Not a time sensitive word .like rest or faith .

Prophecy the declared will of God. The tongue of God.

What are some of these unbiblical conclusions that come from following prophecy. ?
 

iamsoandso

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Oct 6, 2011
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bluto

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Aug 4, 2016
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Apostate.

1 Cor 15

"For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures"

Acts 2

"this Man, delivered over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, you nailed to a cross by the hands of godless men and put Him to death. "
Apostate.

1 Cor 15

"For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures"

Acts 2

"this Man, delivered over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, you nailed to a cross by the hands of godless men and put Him to death. "
You know, it would be nice for you to learn how to read. I know what the gospel is but here is the quote of what was said, "They crucified Jesus on their understanding of scripture."

I'll say it again, they crucified Jesus Christ based on what He said or claimed. For instance, Jesus said, "But He answered them (the Pharisees/Jews) "My Father is working until now, and I Myself am working." (John 5:17).

John 5:18, For this cause therefore the Jews were seeking ALL THE MORE TO KILL HIM, because (or why?) He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, MAKING HIMSELF EQUAL WITH GOD." Again, it is what Jesus said that prompted the Jews to want to accuse Jesus of blasphemy and wanting to kill Him." You need to learn to pay attention instead just "reacting" without thinking to what people say.

Btw, as a side note I went to the website you posted of your Chruch and read through most of it. They stated that Jesus Christ was "made" in the image of God which is not true. Look at Hebrews 1:3 and at Philippians 2:6 where it says He was always God and existed as God, not that He was made God. :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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Like all words a meaning is attached as a law not subject to change.
No. Words have meanings that are dependent on context. The Bible does not specifically define "prophecy"; it uses the term in several different ways, and if you impose the wrong meaning in a certain place, your conclusions about the meaning of the verse or passage will be incorrect at best and dangerous at worst.

What are some of these unbiblical conclusions that come from following prophecy. ?
Do I really need to list all the cults, fringe groups, failed predictions and nutcases out there to illustrate the point?
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
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You know, it would be nice for you to learn how to read. I know what the gospel is but here is the quote of what was said, "They crucified Jesus on their understanding of scripture."

I'll say it again, they crucified Jesus Christ based on what He said or claimed. For instance, Jesus said, "But He answered them (the Pharisees/Jews) "My Father is working until now, and I Myself am working." (John 5:17).

John 5:18, For this cause therefore the Jews were seeking ALL THE MORE TO KILL HIM, because (or why?) He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, MAKING HIMSELF EQUAL WITH GOD." Again, it is what Jesus said that prompted the Jews to want to accuse Jesus of blasphemy and wanting to kill Him." You need to learn to pay attention instead just "reacting" without thinking to what people say.

Btw, as a side note I went to the website you posted of your Chruch and read through most of it. They stated that Jesus Christ was "made" in the image of God which is not true. Look at Hebrews 1:3 and at Philippians 2:6 where it says He was always God and existed as God, not that He was made God. :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
I posted NOTHING on my Church. Ever. Never have.
You refer to someone else.
 

TheDivineWatermark

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Aug 3, 2018
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LOL!

bluto said:
You know, it would be nice for you to learn how to read.
[...]
Btw, as a side note I went to the website you posted of your Chruch and read through most of it. They stated that Jesus Christ was "made" in the image of God which is not true. Look at Hebrews 1:3 and at Philippians 2:6 where it says He was always God and existed as God, not that He was made God. :eek:
I posted NOTHING on my Church. Ever. Never have.
You refer to someone else.
bluto said:
You know, it would be nice for you to learn how to read.

:D ( I'm sorry this made me laugh... lol... we all make mistakes, it's fine! )
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
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as you should. its coming......... right after the tribulation :cool:
If the blessed hope came after the tribulation, i.e. God's wrath, then it would be no blessed hope, nor could those living at the time of the resurrect comfort each other with the Lord's promise of being changed and caught up. For if the blessed hope came after the tribulation, the righteous would be punished with the wicked and God doesn't do that. The reason for this error is not understanding the severity and magnitude of God's coming wrath via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments. By time the Lord returns to the earth to end the age the majority of the earths population will have been decimated and all human government dismantled.

There is a huge difference between trials and tribulation that come at the hands of men and the powers of darkness vs. God's coming wrath, the later of which believers are not appointed to suffer.