The Trinity...my take.

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
May 17, 2023
830
57
28
Jesus is God's only begotten Son.

He was born at the juncture of Luke 1:35.

Luk 1:35, And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
 
E

evyaniy

Guest
Galatians 4

4 But when the fullness of the time came, YAH SENT forth His Son, born to a woman, born under the law, 5 that Hhe might redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as children. 6 And because you are children, YAH SENT forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying, “Abba, Father!” 7 So you are no longer a bondservant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of YAH through Messiah.
 
May 17, 2023
830
57
28
Wrong. Do your homework.
I did...and am not wrong in what I am saying.

Unless you want to divulge the secret to us as to what "begotten" really means and your reasons for believing what you do about it.
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
6,285
1,805
113
L

Locoponydirtman

Guest
It is not the last thing that I have to say on the matter.

You ought to believe in, not only what is spoken and written in the creeds; but what is spoken and written in holy scripture.

Therefore, since the Father is the Lord (Ephesians 4:5; Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21, 2 Corinthians 6:17-18);

in saying that you believe in one Lord Jesus Christ,

you are saying that you believe that Jesus is the Father (if you believe the scriptures above referenced);

because Jesus and the Father are the same Lord; being one Lord (Ephesians 4:5).
No. Thats your assessment. I read the whole thing in one context. Not each statement as a stand alone. Each statement has its meaning in context with all the other statements. I also understand scripture and what the scripture says about each of the "persons" of God, and all three of the ecumenical creeds in context together, and the reason they were written, and their place and cause in history.
 
May 17, 2023
830
57
28
No. Thats your assessment. I read the whole thing in one context. Not each statement as a stand alone. Each statement has its meaning in context with all the other statements. I also understand scripture and what the scripture says about each of the "persons" of God, and all three of the ecumenical creeds in context together, and the reason they were written, and their place and cause in history.
There is one Lord (Ephesians 4:5); even the Father (Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21, 2 Corinthians 6:17-18)..

Yet no one can say that Jesus is the Lord except by the Holy Ghost (1 Corinthians 12:3)

In light of Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21, and 2 Corinthians 6:17-18, can you say that Jesus is the Lord?

If not, then you don't have the Holy Ghost (1 Corinthians 12:3)...

And therefore do not belong to Christ (Romans 8:9).
 
L

Locoponydirtman

Guest
There is one Lord (Ephesians 4:5); even the Father (Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21, 2 Corinthians 6:17-18)..

Yet no one can say that Jesus is the Lord except by the Holy Ghost (1 Corinthians 12:3)

In light of Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21, and 2 Corinthians 6:17-18, can you say that Jesus is the Lord?

If not, then you don't have the Holy Ghost (1 Corinthians 12:3)...

And therefore do not belong to Christ (Romans 8:9).
Luke 2:11
for today in the city of David there has been born for you a Savior, who is Christ the Lord.

Romans 10:9
that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

Colossians 3:17
Whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks through Him to God the Father.

Philippians 2:9-11
For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

1 Peter 3:15
but sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence;

Revelation 17:14
These will wage war against the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, because He is Lord of lords and King of kings, and those who are with Him are the called and chosen and faithful.”


1 Corinthians 8:6
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.

2 Corinthians 4:5
For we do not preach ourselves but Christ Jesus as Lord, and ourselves as your bond-servants for Jesus’ sake.
 
May 17, 2023
830
57
28
Luke 2:11
for today in the city of David there has been born for you a Savior, who is Christ the Lord.

Romans 10:9
that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

Colossians 3:17
Whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks through Him to God the Father.

Philippians 2:9-11
For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

1 Peter 3:15
but sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence;

Revelation 17:14
These will wage war against the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, because He is Lord of lords and King of kings, and those who are with Him are the called and chosen and faithful.”


1 Corinthians 8:6
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.

2 Corinthians 4:5
For we do not preach ourselves but Christ Jesus as Lord, and ourselves as your bond-servants for Jesus’ sake.
So you agree with me that Jesus is the Father; since the Father is the one Lord of holy scripture.
 
May 17, 2023
830
57
28
You'd have a difficult time convincing me that you have the Holy Spirit if you have no vision.
Do you not know that like begets like?

A monkey does not beget a lion no matter how you slice things.
 

Ted01

Well-known member
May 14, 2022
1,055
447
83
So you agree with me that Jesus is the Father; since the Father is the one Lord of holy scripture.
Jesus is not the Father, but He is God... the Father is not Jesus the Son, but He is God... the Holy Spirit is neither the Son nor the Father, but He is God

The three of them are One.
 
L

Locoponydirtman

Guest
The Athanasian Creed was formulated due to Arianism, which is the same heresy that caused the church to formulate the Nicene Creed, Although Athenasius didn’t write it, the Creed was named after him. lived from A.D. 293-373.

Athanasius lived from about 293 to 373 AD, amd was known for his commitment to Christian Orthodoxy and the doctrine of the Trinity.

The first half of the Athenasius creed is devoted to describing the trinity, while the second half is devoted to the two part nature of Jesus, and clearly explains both.

(note: the word “catholic” is not referring to the Roman Catholic Church. Rather, it refers to Christianity as a whole. It is a general term that encompasses the entirety Christianity, Christians, and the Christian Church.)

Whoever desires to be saved should above all hold to the catholic faith.​
Anyone who does not keep it whole and unbroken will doubtless perish eternally.​
Now this is the catholic faith:​
That we worship one God in trinity and the trinity in unity,​
neither blending their persons​
nor dividing their essence.​
For the person of the Father is a distinct person,​
the person of the Son is another,​
and that of the Holy Spirit still another.​
But the divinity of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is one,​
their glory equal, their majesty coeternal.​
What quality the Father has, the Son has, and the Holy Spirit has.​
The Father is uncreated,​
the Son is uncreated,​
the Holy Spirit is uncreated.​
The Father is immeasurable,​
the Son is immeasurable,​
the Holy Spirit is immeasurable.​
The Father is eternal,​
the Son is eternal,​
the Holy Spirit is eternal.​
And yet there are not three eternal beings;​
there is but one eternal being.​
So too there are not three uncreated or immeasurable beings;​
there is but one uncreated and immeasurable being.​
Similarly, the Father is almighty,​
the Son is almighty,​
the Holy Spirit is almighty.​
Yet there are not three almighty beings;​
there is but one almighty being.​
Thus the Father is God,​
the Son is God,​
the Holy Spirit is God.​
Yet there are not three gods;​
there is but one God.​
Thus the Father is Lord,​
the Son is Lord,​
the Holy Spirit is Lord.​
Yet there are not three lords;​
there is but one Lord.​
Just as Christian truth compels us​
to confess each person individually​
as both God and Lord,​
so catholic religion forbids us​
to say that there are three gods or lords.​
The Father was neither made nor created nor begotten from anyone.​
The Son was neither made nor created;​
he was begotten from the Father alone.​
The Holy Spirit was neither made nor created nor begotten;​
he proceeds from the Father and the Son.​
Accordingly there is one Father, not three fathers;​
there is one Son, not three sons;​
there is one Holy Spirit, not three holy spirits.​
Nothing in this trinity is before or after,​
nothing is greater or smaller;​
in their entirety the three persons​
are coeternal and coequal with each other.​
So in everything, as was said earlier,​
we must worship their trinity in their unity​
and their unity in their trinity.​
Anyone then who desires to be saved​
should think thus about the trinity.​
But it is necessary for eternal salvation​
that one also believe in the incarnation​
of our Lord Jesus Christ faithfully.​
Now this is the true faith:​
That we believe and confess​
that our Lord Jesus Christ, God’s Son,​
is both God and human, equally.​
He is God from the essence of the Father,​
begotten before time;​
and he is human from the essence of his mother,​
born in time;​
completely God, completely human,​
with a rational soul and human flesh;​
equal to the Father as regards divinity,​
less than the Father as regards humanity.​
Although he is God and human,​
yet Christ is not two, but one.​
He is one, however,​
not by his divinity being turned into flesh,​
but by God’s taking humanity to himself.​
He is one,​
certainly not by the blending of his essence,​
but by the unity of his person.​
For just as one human is both rational soul and flesh,​
so too the one Christ is both God and human.​
He suffered for our salvation;​
he descended to hell;​
he arose from the dead;​
he ascended to heaven;​
he is seated at the Father’s right hand;​
from there he will come to judge the living and the dead.​
At his coming all people will arise bodily​
and give an accounting of their own deeds.​
Those who have done good will enter eternal life,​
and those who have done evil will enter eternal fire.​
This is the catholic faith:​
one cannot be saved without believing it firmly and faithfully.​
The Athanasian Creed.​
Ok this is the end of the subject for me and hopefully everyone else.​
 
E

evyaniy

Guest
The Athanasian Creed was formulated due to Arianism, which is the same heresy that caused the church to formulate the Nicene Creed, Although Athenasius didn’t write it, the Creed was named after him. lived from A.D. 293-373.

Athanasius lived from about 293 to 373 AD, amd was known for his commitment to Christian Orthodoxy and the doctrine of the Trinity.

The first half of the Athenasius creed is devoted to describing the trinity, while the second half is devoted to the two part nature of Jesus, and clearly explains both.

(note: the word “catholic” is not referring to the Roman Catholic Church. Rather, it refers to Christianity as a whole. It is a general term that encompasses the entirety Christianity, Christians, and the Christian Church.)

Whoever desires to be saved should above all hold to the catholic faith.​
Anyone who does not keep it whole and unbroken will doubtless perish eternally.​
Now this is the catholic faith:​
That we worship one God in trinity and the trinity in unity,​
neither blending their persons​
nor dividing their essence.​
For the person of the Father is a distinct person,​
the person of the Son is another,​
and that of the Holy Spirit still another.​
But the divinity of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is one,​
their glory equal, their majesty coeternal.​
What quality the Father has, the Son has, and the Holy Spirit has.​
The Father is uncreated,​
the Son is uncreated,​
the Holy Spirit is uncreated.​
The Father is immeasurable,​
the Son is immeasurable,​
the Holy Spirit is immeasurable.​
The Father is eternal,​
the Son is eternal,​
the Holy Spirit is eternal.​
And yet there are not three eternal beings;​
there is but one eternal being.​
So too there are not three uncreated or immeasurable beings;​
there is but one uncreated and immeasurable being.​
Similarly, the Father is almighty,​
the Son is almighty,​
the Holy Spirit is almighty.​
Yet there are not three almighty beings;​
there is but one almighty being.​
Thus the Father is God,​
the Son is God,​
the Holy Spirit is God.​
Yet there are not three gods;​
there is but one God.​
Thus the Father is Lord,​
the Son is Lord,​
the Holy Spirit is Lord.​
Yet there are not three lords;​
there is but one Lord.​
Just as Christian truth compels us​
to confess each person individually​
as both God and Lord,​
so catholic religion forbids us​
to say that there are three gods or lords.​
The Father was neither made nor created nor begotten from anyone.​
The Son was neither made nor created;​
he was begotten from the Father alone.​
The Holy Spirit was neither made nor created nor begotten;​
he proceeds from the Father and the Son.​
Accordingly there is one Father, not three fathers;​
there is one Son, not three sons;​
there is one Holy Spirit, not three holy spirits.​
Nothing in this trinity is before or after,​
nothing is greater or smaller;​
in their entirety the three persons​
are coeternal and coequal with each other.​
So in everything, as was said earlier,​
we must worship their trinity in their unity​
and their unity in their trinity.​
Anyone then who desires to be saved​
should think thus about the trinity.​
But it is necessary for eternal salvation​
that one also believe in the incarnation​
of our Lord Jesus Christ faithfully.​
Now this is the true faith:​
That we believe and confess​
that our Lord Jesus Christ, God’s Son,​
is both God and human, equally.​
He is God from the essence of the Father,​
begotten before time;​
and he is human from the essence of his mother,​
born in time;​
completely God, completely human,​
with a rational soul and human flesh;​
equal to the Father as regards divinity,​
less than the Father as regards humanity.​
Although he is God and human,​
yet Christ is not two, but one.​
He is one, however,​
not by his divinity being turned into flesh,​
but by God’s taking humanity to himself.​
He is one,​
certainly not by the blending of his essence,​
but by the unity of his person.​
For just as one human is both rational soul and flesh,​
so too the one Christ is both God and human.​
He suffered for our salvation;​
he descended to hell;​
he arose from the dead;​
he ascended to heaven;​
he is seated at the Father’s right hand;​
from there he will come to judge the living and the dead.​
At his coming all people will arise bodily​
and give an accounting of their own deeds.​
Those who have done good will enter eternal life,​
and those who have done evil will enter eternal fire.​
This is the catholic faith:​
one cannot be saved without believing it firmly and faithfully.​
The Athanasian Creed.​
Ok this is the end of the subject for me and hopefully everyone else.​
Thank you for sharing this. Hopefully this is not the end of the subject for you since you know so much that can benefit us all.