the two witnesses are God the Father and the Holy Spirit

[wolfwint]

There are problems to be addressed with any of these theories based on what we know about the WITNESSES from revelation 11 and Zechariah 4.
A) they are killed: Thus they have bodies and live.
B) they have powers over waters, all manor of plagues and fire proceeds out of their mouths.
C) in Zech 4 we see that(everyone seems to miss this)the two olive tree's are supplying the lampstand with oil. The oil is a picture of the Spirit of God throughout the bible.
Question: Who is the source of the spirit of God?
Do any of these theories pan out?
Peace

to B) Rev. 11,3 says that they got this power from God and have not the power from themselves!
to C) this fact is shurly true, but from the context in Zech 4, there is a different situaition described then in revelation 11m
f.e. Zech 4 can be in the millenium and Rev.11 in tribulation time.

But what is missing in both scriptures is, that the 2 Persons are God father and the Holy Spirit. This two can be people which are giftet with the power from God to fulfill there task.

In 2.Thess. 2,7 ff we find a can find a note that the man of evil will be able to reveal his full evilness when "who restains" will be taken out of the way. This can means that no christian and no Holy Spirit will then on earth like the last 2000 years since pentecost.

 

[badger58]

I did not know that Sharing something I find in the bible to be so terrible.
I thought that iron sharpens iron
I thought that families shared things(what happened to the brotherhood)
I thought it not a sin to say " what if " without being jumped on
I thought we could share the word of God, and have a disagreement without going personal.
I STAND CORRECTED!

TRUTH DOES NOT FEAR AN INVESTIGATION

 

[tourist]

Absolutely not true.

 

[PurerInHeart]

Moses and Elijah- whose positions were reinacted by Jesus and John the Baptist.

 

[KenAllan]

First God and Jesus are both the same person. When you see God you see Jesus and when you see Jesus you see God.

God is one and three at the same time.

Therefore God and Jesus cannot be the two witnesses.

The problem here is you do not have a true understanding of who and what God is. God was never created and God cannot die. Jesus arose into Heaven with a new body that cannot die.

What you need to do is accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior and ask God to fill you with the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit who WILL bring to you the Truth about God.

 

[badger58]

First God and Jesus are both the same person. When you see God you see Jesus and when you see Jesus you see God.

God is one and three at the same time.

Therefore God and Jesus cannot be the two witnesses.

The problem here is you do not have a true understanding of who and what God is. God was never created and God cannot die. Jesus arose into Heaven with a new body that cannot die.

What you need to do is accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior and ask God to fill you with the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit who WILL bring to you the Truth about God.

Seven passages of scripture that I think would be difficult to reconcile with your theology.
John 1:1-2
1 John 5:7
1 John 16:5
1 John 16:8
1 John 16:10
1 John 16:27
John 17:21-23 This passage in particular is very clear that being one does not mean being the same.
I look forward to your rebuttal. Please don't try to suggest that you have the Holy spirit and I don't. That's a tactic used by Pharisees, it's uncalled for. Peace in Christ
Remember that TRUTH DOES NOT FEAR INVESTIGATION

 

[badger58]

Absolutely not true.

Truth Quotes

 



An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it.

Mahatma Gandhi

 

[badger58]

First God and Jesus are both the same person. When you see God you see Jesus and when you see Jesus you see God.

God is one and three at the same time.

Therefore God and Jesus cannot be the two witnesses.

The problem here is you do not have a true understanding of who and what God is. God was never created and God cannot die. Jesus arose into Heaven with a new body that cannot die.

What you need to do is accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior and ask God to fill you with the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit who WILL bring to you the Truth about God.

1 John 5:7 contradicts what you state as fact. May the word of God be true,and everyman be proved a liar if they will not except His word as the final authority.

 

[john832]

What do you say?

Where did you get this idea?

Rev 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

So the Beast kills God the Father and Christ?

Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

Their bodies lie in the street for three and a half days?

Rev 11:9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
Rev 11:10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
Rev 11:11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
Rev 11:12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

If they were dead and then standing on their feet on earth, who is above them saying come up here?

 

[Justcallmetinman]

What do you say?

I am responding the the OP.
I say : NO. That is not what God has taught any child of his...................

 

[badger58]

Where did you get this idea?

Rev 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

So the Beast kills God the Father and Christ?

Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

Their bodies lie in the street for three and a half days?

Rev 11:9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
Rev 11:10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
Rev 11:11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
Rev 11:12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

If they were dead and then standing on their feet on earth, who is above them saying come up here?

I should think JESUS
(WHERE DID YOU GET THIS IDEA?) I have studied the scriptures 40 yrs, that's not a proof that my theory is right, I only say that to to mean that I have investigated as many theories as I could find, and this is the only answer that makes sense to me.
Remember that there was a morning and an evening sacrifice, a former and a latter rain.
Truth does not fear investigation. That's all I'm saying.

 

[badger58]

Where did you get this idea?

Rev 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

So the Beast kills God the Father and Christ?

Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

Their bodies lie in the street for three and a half days?

Rev 11:9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
Rev 11:10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
Rev 11:11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
Rev 11:12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

If they were dead and then standing on their feet on earth, who is above them saying come up here?

Once I found scriptural evidence for the idea that it would not be impossible for the Father to come with the Holy Spirit in human form(if He so chooses)at the end of this age as the TWO WITNESSES, as He said to Sarah:" Is anything to hard for God"
I fear turning my back on the word of God more than I fear going against the majority view. I have no choice but to follow what I believe God is showing me. This is not a dogma of faith. There is no consensus on this topic of the two witnesses. I only hope that anyone seeking truth would do the same.God knows my heart, and I am not going to apologize for having an opinion.
If anyone thinks I am being dishonest with my reading of the scripture, then all I ask is that you use the the word of God to correct me,I am willing to listen and learn, but don't just tell me that its impossible, and that I have a demon because I believe He can do all things, and I've done my homework. I had to examine what you believe before I came to this conclusion.
Peace to my brothers in Christ.

REMEMBER TRUTH DOES NOT FEAR INVESTIGATION
Jesus the WORD was God and he was with God, and yet He came in the form of man. IMPOSSIBLE said the Pharisees. Who was proven right?

 

[wolfwint]

Once I found scriptural evidence for the idea that it would not be impossible for the Father to come with the Holy Spirit in human form(if He so chooses)at the end of this age as the TWO WITNESSES, as He said to Sarah:" Is anything to hard for God"
I fear turning my back on the word of God more than I fear going against the majority view. I have no choice but to follow what I believe God is showing me. This is not a dogma of faith. There is no consensus on this topic of the two witnesses. I only hope that anyone seeking truth would do the same.God knows my heart, and I am not going to apologize for having an opinion.
If anyone thinks I am being dishonest with my reading of the scripture, then all I ask is that you use the the word of God to correct me,I am willing to listen and learn, but don't just tell me that its impossible, and that I have a demon because I believe He can do all things, and I've done my homework. I had to examine what you believe before I came to this conclusion.
Peace to my brothers in Christ.

REMEMBER TRUTH DOES NOT FEAR INVESTIGATION
Jesus the WORD was God and he was with God, and yet He came in the form of man. IMPOSSIBLE said the Pharisees. Who was proven right?

Well, its right for God is nothing impossible, but i suppose he is not doing everything what is possible! Jesus coming in flesh I can find in the bible easily. God father and Holy Spirit coming in flesh i cant find in the bible. One teacher told us it is not useful to disput about future questions. We will see what happend.

 

[Eternallife]

What do you say?

No you are mistaken.

 

[Zmouth]

O.K I will go through the scripture I use to make my case.

I am sure you have a good case yet no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him. Thus a man can receive nothing except it come from the Holy Ghost, who is the only begotten Son of the Eternal God .

And thus the two witnesses are the Spirit of God and Word of God , the Holy Ghost, who only hath immortality, dwelling in the eternal Light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen. This then is the message which we have heard of the Holy Ghost, who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:and declare unto you, that the eternal God is Light, and in him is no darkness at all. For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

But I will conclude with this, if the man and his wife shall be one flesh, who's your daddy?

 

[badger58]

I am sure you have a good case yet no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him. Thus a man can receive nothing except it come from the Holy Ghost, who is the only begotten Son of the Eternal God .

And thus the two witnesses are the Spirit of God and Word of God , the Holy Ghost, who only hath immortality, dwelling in the eternal Light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen. This then is the message which we have heard of the Holy Ghost, who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:and declare unto you, that the eternal God is Light, and in him is no darkness at all. For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

But I will conclude with this, if the man and his wife shall be one flesh, who's your daddy?

Hi zmouth,
Proverbs says:"It is the glory of God to conceal a thing, and the glory of kings to seek it out. We are kings and priests.
Here is the starting premise on which I have built this theory.
1) John 1:2-3 states that nothing was made(or brought to light)except by and through the WORD of God(Jesus)
This passage agrees with my second point which is
2) the Word (Jesus) is the lampstand all of gold in the vission given to Zechariah 4:2-3.(
if I am understanding the vision correctly) Zerubbabel was worried about all the physical obstacles he saw regarding the rebuilding of the temple that had been destroyed by the Babylonians. 4:12 is saying to Zerubbabel(my paraphrase) don't sweat it,don't worry, the work of God has never been reliant on the might,power or control of men. It is accomplished by the working of the Godhead(the Trinity) the Two Olive Trees supporting,supplying the oil to the Golden Lampstand.(Jesus)
If my theory is wrong, then its because I am misinterpreting these passages, but I have not come across another interpretation that makes more sense.
3)Mary asked Gabriel how could it be, that she could give birth since she was a virgin, never been with a man. Luke 1:35 is very interesting. Answer: The Holy Spirit shall come upon you and the Most High shall over shadow you, therefore the child shall be called the"Son of God".
The child(Jesus) was the result of the coming together of the Father and the Holy Spirit. This agrees(in my opinion)with the vision given to Zechariah.
I know that truth found by someone other than yourself is hard to see. This is my truth,but I found it in the the word of God. One thing I know:God did not give me this for no reason.
I think we are in the last days. You can feel it in the air, something is about to happen! The Jews are expecting the messiah. We are expecting the Two Witnesses. The Muslims are expecting the Mahdi. We need to be in the word of God. Draw closer to Him and keep your eyes on Jesus.
However the Father finishes His work through the tribulation period, we know that it will bring Great Glory to His name. The book is about God doing what we could not. A time of trial proves men's metal, to see what your made of. Hold onto to God with all your strength. Grab the horns of altar.
Peace in Christ.

 

[garee]

Moses and Elijah- whose positions were reinacted by Jesus and John the Baptist.

Amen PureInheart

We can look to the conclusion of the parable found in Luke 16 account. It shows those who would not trust Christ’s resurrection (one rose from the dead )They show they are ignoring the two witnesses the hearing of faith by rather looking for their own kind of faith in respect to Abraham and not in respect alone to our Father in heaven alone who gives us His faith so that we can believe the two witnesses. .



The question is when he does come on the last day will he find a faith( Luke 18:8) in respect to the two witnesses or will that kind (Christ's) of faith be dead and therefore not able to produce a relationship with God. And in the end he will find a worn out religious book that cannot convey a living faith?

Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.And he said unto him, If they hear not “Moses and the prophets”, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead. Luk 16:29

 

[badger58]

Well, its right for God is nothing impossible, but i suppose he is not doing everything what is possible! Jesus coming in flesh I can find in the bible easily. God father and Holy Spirit coming in flesh i cant find in the bible. One teacher told us it is not useful to disput about future questions. We will see what happend.

If you read what I have said, you will see that I post scripture to make my point. The word of God has to back up a claim or it must be dismissed. If you read it differently, then just explain how you read it. As for what your teacher told you, well, how would you learn anything if you can't ask questions, can't compare scripture with scripture,can't form ideas, can't discuss different points of view? Paul told timothy to study to show yourself approved, rightly dividing the word of truth. If what you mean is, that you get angry to hear a different view, I would agree with that. As to your point previously posted about Rev 11:3. If you are reading it correctly then it would seem to disagree with Rev 11:6. Some translations have it: I will "give power" to my two witnesses, but other transactions have it: And I will " give or present my two witnesses" I checked the Strongs concordance. I don't see the word for power, so I would have side with the other translations. I don't read Greek, I have to trust others on this.
Peace in Christ.

 

[Zmouth]

This is my truth,but I found it in the the word of God.

Would you agree that if your truth is true then it would stand up to inquiry?

I know that truth found by someone other than yourself is hard to see.

Not really, because the truth comes from the LORD, i.e. the 'seed', and the reward for him soweth that which he received is no greater than him that reward unto him receive the sower of the 'seed'. Of course the seed is the Word of the LORD. And when one receives the sower as written, as written Matthew 10:40 it produces the results as written in Matthew 13:23. But unfortunately many don't know why the Gospel is freely given much less how to receive it. Proverbs 23:23.

So like you said, it is your truth and you found it. [John 3:27] Yet the truth is the LORD works in mysterious ways.

 

[badger58]

Would you agree that if your truth is true then it would stand up to inquiry?



Not really, because the truth comes from the LORD, i.e. the 'seed', and the reward for him soweth that which he received is no greater than him that reward unto him receive the sower of the 'seed'. Of course the seed is the Word of the LORD. And when one receives the sower as written, as written Matthew 10:40 it produces the results as written in Matthew 13:23. But unfortunately many don't know why the Gospel is freely given much less how to receive it. Proverbs 23:23.

So like you said, it is your truth and you found it. [John 3:27] Yet the truth is the LORD works in mysterious ways.

As I have stated in many of my posts, THE TRUTH DOES NOT FEAR INVESTIGATION if I thought my theory couldn't stand up to scrutiny using the bible, I would not have put it out there. Please anyone and everyone, take it for a spin and kick the tires. You can just look, you don't have to buy.
Someone said: Tell the truth, but then run like hell!?????? there has always been more of an inventory of truth than a demand for it.
Truth is like the sun! You can cover it up for a little while, but it ain't go'en anywhere. Elvis Presley