the two witnesses are God the Father and the Holy Spirit

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badger58

Guest
Would you agree that if your truth is true then it would stand up to inquiry?



Not really, because the truth comes from the LORD, i.e.
the 'seed', and the reward for him soweth that which he received is no greater than him that reward unto him receive the sower of the 'seed'. Of course the seed is the Word of the LORD. And when one receives the sower as written, as written Matthew 10:40 it produces the results as written in Matthew 13:23. But unfortunately many don't know why the Gospel is freely given much less how to receive it. Proverbs 23:23.

So like you said, it is your truth and you found it. [John 3:27] Yet the truth is the LORD works in mysterious ways.
As I have stated in many of my posts, THE TRUTH DOES NOT FEAR INVESTIGATION if I thought my theory couldn't stand up to scrutiny using the bible, I would not have put it out there. Please anyone and everyone, take it for a spin and kick the tires. You can just look, you don't have to buy.
Someone said: Tell the truth, but then run like hell!
 

Zmouth

Senior Member
Nov 21, 2012
3,391
134
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As I have stated in many of my posts, THE TRUTH DOES NOT FEAR INVESTIGATION if I thought my theory couldn't stand up to scrutiny using the bible, I would not have put it out there.
I can respect that. If not mistaken I believe it was Thomas Paine who is quoted saying that "it is error, not truth that shrinks from inquiry."
I couldn't help but notice a couple of reference you made which suggest an inference of Islam. You aren't suggesting that the Torah, Gospel and Quran are the three tabernacles referenced in Matthew 17:4, Mark 9:5 and Luke 9:33
"... and let us make three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias."


The Muslims are expecting the Mahdi.
I wish I could read Hebrew,Greek and Aramaic.
After all the dogma of the Catholic Trinity claims "the Trinity is One. We do not confess three Gods, but one God in three persons (Word), the "consubstantial Trinity".

The divine persons
do not share the one divinity among themselves but each of them is God whole and entire: "The Father is that which the Son is, the Son that which the Father is, the Father and the Son that which the Holy Spirit is, i.e. by nature one God."

Which could be said that the Torah says what the Gospel says, the Gospel says what the Torah says, and the Bible says what the Quran does, which are all one Word.

The divine persons are really distinct from one another. "God is one but not solitary."86 "Father", "Son", "Holy Spirit" are not simply names designating modalities of the divine being, for they are really distinct from one another: "He is not the Father who is the Son, nor is the Son he who is the Father, nor is the Holy Spirit he who is the Father or the Son."87 They are distinct from one another in their relations of origin

The reason I even bring that up is from the commandment of Jesus in Matthew 28:19 to the disciples, "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:" Yet no trinitarians seem to know the names even though they claim that are three distinct personages according to the trintiy dogma. How bout you, care to answer?


3)Mary asked Gabriel how could it be, that she could give birth since she was a virgin, never been with a man. Luke 1:35 is very interesting. Answer: The Holy Spirit shall come upon you and the Most High shall over shadow you, therefore the child shall be called the"Son of God".
Yet in John 7:39 is where the copyrighted rewrites run into trouble, how could Jesus been born of the Holy Spirit if the Holy Spirit had not been given? The recent translations that rewrite Holy Ghost as Holy Spirit fail to adhere to the context since if the Holy Spirit hadn't been given since the written spoken word hadn't been published yet. It doesn't say God was his father, but the Holy Ghost, seeing they are three different personages then if the Holy Spirit hadn't been given yet then it must have been a man who was his father. He affirms that fact himself in John 8:17-18
17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.
18 I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.


So do you have another interpretation of John 8:17-18?
 
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badger58

Guest
I can respect that. If not mistaken I believe it was Thomas Paine who is quoted saying that "it is error, not truth that shrinks from inquiry."
I couldn't help but notice a couple of reference you made which suggest an inference of Islam. You aren't suggesting that the Torah, Gospel and Quran are the three tabernacles referenced in Matthew 17:4, Mark 9:5 and Luke 9:33
"... and let us make three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias."





After all the dogma of the Catholic Trinity claims "the Trinity is One. We do not confess three Gods, but one God in three persons (Word), the "consubstantial Trinity".

The divine persons
do not share the one divinity among themselves but each of them is God whole and entire: "The Father is that which the Son is, the Son that which the Father is, the Father and the Son that which the Holy Spirit is, i.e. by nature one God."

Which could be said that the Torah says what the Gospel says, the Gospel says what the Torah says, and the Bible says what the Quran does, which are all one Word.

The divine persons are really distinct from one another. "God is one but not solitary."86 "Father", "Son", "Holy Spirit" are not simply names designating modalities of the divine being, for they are really distinct from one another: "He is not the Father who is the Son, nor is the Son he who is the Father, nor is the Holy Spirit he who is the Father or the Son."87 They are distinct from one another in their relations of origin

The reason I even bring that up is from the commandment of Jesus in Matthew 28:19 to the disciples, "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:" Yet no trinitarians seem to know the names even though they claim that are three distinct personages according to the trintiy dogma. How bout you, care to answer?




Yet in John 7:39 is where the copyrighted rewrites run into trouble, how could Jesus been born of the Holy Spirit if the Holy Spirit had not been given? The recent translations that rewrite Holy Ghost as Holy Spirit fail to adhere to the context since if the Holy Spirit hadn't been given since the written spoken word hadn't been published yet. It doesn't say God was his father, but the Holy Ghost, seeing they are three different personages then if the Holy Spirit hadn't been given yet then it must have been a man who was his father. He affirms that fact himself in John 8:17-18
17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.
18 I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.


So do you have another interpretation of John 8:17-18?
I'll start at the top and work my way down.
To answer your first point. No, I find nothing in the word of God that would suggest to me that Peters 3 tabernacle comment had anything to do with the three monotheistic religions. Peter didn't know what to say, Peter spoke without thinking. The Father corrected him, Moses and Elijah vanished and Father said: This is my beloved son, HEAR HIM.
Next point-I am not so foolish to tell you that I can explain the Godhead. How can finite man explain the infinite? If anyone says they can, well, I only know its a great mystery. I can see that the bible does give us some light on the subject. Hear Oh Israel, the Lord our God is one. That's got to be true. King David prophesied:"The Lord said to my Lord" who are these two lords? 1 John 5:7 states that there are three that bear witness in Heaven. God is love! Who did God love before He created men or angels? All these scriptures are true. Yes it's a mystery. That's why men try all kinds of models to show how we reconcile these scriptures. The best model that I see is the vision given in Zechariah 4 of the Two Olive Trees and the Lampstand all of gold then I look at John 1:1-4 and these other passages. That is how I get my view of the Godhead,not from the catholic church.
I don't understand your next about Holy Ghost in John 7:39, need clarification.
Getting back to my theory verses other dominant theories. We know that scripture does not waist words, if its there, its there for a reason. Jesus states in his conversation with Nicodemus in John 3:12 that" NO MAN" has ascended into Heaven except the Son of man who descended. That's pretty emphatic. Do we believe Jesus? Or do we believe bible teachers that say Enoch and Elijah are the two witnesses because they never saw death and were taken to Heaven? As for me, I believe Jesus!!!
Bye for now
Peace in Christ
The truth is like the sun, you can cover it up for a while, but it ain't go'en anywhere. Elvis Presley
Every truth goes through 3 stages, 1st) ridicule 2nd) disbelief and then it is self-evident ???????
 
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badger58

Guest
Check different translations. You will find some say our lord and others say their lord. So you point is valid if if the ones I am reading are wrong. I wish I could read Hebrew,Greek and Aramaic. I have to do the best I can with the strongs concordance. Peace
The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is. Winston Churchill
Read more at: The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the... - Winston Churchill at BrainyQuote
 
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badger58

Guest
Ok, Different takes on who the TWO WITNESSES are.
Some say they will be two ordinary people empowered by God to perform their duties
Some say they are Moses and Elijah empowered by God as in the past.
Others say it will be Enoch and Elijah because they never died.
Others say that the two witnesses are the old and new testament.
Still others say they are Israel and the church.
I say they are the Father and the Holy Spirit.
Lets do some gold panning using the word of God and see if we can find some nuggets
If you accept one of these theories as being true.
Please use the bible and tell everyone why the one you have chosen is the correct way to understand
The two witnesses.
 
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badger58

Guest
Judgment on the Whole Earth in the Day of the Lord


2 “I will sweep away everything
from the face of the earth,”
declares the Lord.
3 “I will sweep away both man and beast;
I will sweep away the birds in the sky
and the fish in the sea—
and the idols that cause the wicked to stumble.”[a]


“When I destroy all mankind
on the face of the earth,”
declares the Lord,
4 “I will stretch out my hand against Judah
and against all who live in Jerusalem.
I will destroy every remnant of Baal worship in this place,
the very names of the idolatrous priests—
5 those who bow down on the roofs
to worship the starry host,
those who bow down and swear by the Lord
and who also swear by Molek,
6 those who turn back from following the Lord
and neither seek the Lord nor inquire of him.”


7 Be silent before the Sovereign Lord,
for the day of the Lord is near.
The Lord has prepared a sacrifice;
he has consecrated those he has invited.


8 “On the day of the Lord’s sacrifice


Many think this is referring to the millennium after the second coming of Jesus, but is in fact talking about a time prior to Jesus second coming. I think its speaking of the 3 1/2 years that the Two Witnesses are here.
 
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badger58

Guest
As I have stated in many of my posts, THE TRUTH DOES NOT FEAR INVESTIGATION if I thought my theory couldn't stand up to scrutiny using the bible, I would not have put it out there.
Take a look at how great the Two Witnesses are.
What they share with Jesus-AMAZING!
ANOINTED
SYMBOLIZES BY A LAMP STAND
3 1/2 YEAR MINISTRY
POWER OVER NATURE
POWER OVER WATER
POWER OVER PLAGUES
PHYSICALLY INVINCIBLE DURING MINISTRY
ULTIMATELY KILLED BY SATAN
DEAD FOR THREE DAYS
COME BACK TO LIFE BEFORE ALL OTHERS IN GLORIFIED BODIES
ASCEND INTO HEAVEN
EARTHQUAKE FOLLOWS THEIR DEATH
COINCIDENCE OR PLANNED?
COULD IT BE TWO SIDES TO THE SAME COIN ?

Some say just two ordinary guys God decided to draft. (I DOUBT THAT)
Others say confidently that its Moses and Elijah or Enoch (LITTLE EVIDENCE TO GO ON)
Still others say the old and new testament or Israel and the church (LESS EVIDENCE)

THY KINGDOM COME, GOD WILL DO WHAT WE CANNOT DO FOR OURSELVES! TO HIM BE PRAISE AND GLORY !
 

png

Junior Member
Apr 18, 2016
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0
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Check this one out,

Daniel saw a Man,
Daniel 10:5 While I was standing there, I looked up and I saw a man standing in front of me. He was wearing linen clothes. He wore a belt made of pure gold[a] around his waist. 6 His body was like a smooth, shiny stone. His face was bright like lightning. His eyes were like flames of fire. His arms and feet were shiny like polished brass. His voice was loud like a crowd of people.
The man said in line 13 that, “Daniel, do not be afraid. From the very first day you decided to get wisdom and to be humble in front of God, he has been listening to your prayers. I came to you because you have been praying. [SUP]13 [/SUP]But the prince of Persia has been fighting against me for 21 days. Then Michael, one of the most important princes, came to help me because I was stuck there with the king of Persia. [SUP]14 [/SUP]Now I have come to you, Daniel, to explain to you what will happen to your people in the future. The vision is about a time in the future.”

NOW I HAVE COME TO YOU, DANIEL, TO EXPLAIN TO YOU WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO YOUR PEOPLE IN THE FUTURE. THE VISION IS ABOUT A TIME IN THE FUTURE.” And revelation 11:7-10 talk about the things that will happen in the Future.

Daniel 10:12, [SUP]12 [/SUP]Then the man in the vision started talking again. He said, “Daniel, do not be afraid. From the very first day you decided to get wisdom and to be humble in front of God, he has been listening to your prayers. I came to you because you have been praying. [SUP]13 [/SUP]But the prince of Persia has been fighting against me for 21 days.
Daniel 10: 20, [SUP]20 [/SUP]so then he said, “Daniel, do you know why I have come to you? Soon I must go back to fight against the prince of Persia. When I go, the prince of Greece will come. Who is that man that will go back?
Daniel 10:21, No one stands with me against those evil angels except Michael, the prince over your people. Engel Michael helps the man (Indicates that Michael will come again on the earth. Also the word me means that he is the one who will fight against the evil angels so that means it tow man and not one man. Revelation 11:1-8)

Daniel 10:13[SUP] 13 [/SUP]But the prince of Persia has been fighting against me for 21 days. Then Michael, one of the most important princes, came to help me because I was stuck there with the king of Persia. (Daniel 12:1).
Who is that man? Why was the prince of Persia fighting against the man? And was he here on earth before? Daniel 10:20, indicated that the man will go back to fight against the man in the past. It also indicated that the man was here on earth in the past. And the text indicated that the man will go back to fight? See more below,

Daniel 10:13, [SUP]13 [/SUP]But the prince of Persia has been fighting against me for 21 days. Then Michael, one of the most important princes, came to help me because I was stuck there with the king of Persia.
Who was the man Michael help long ago? And who was stuck when Michael came to help. In Jude1:9, it says that” [SUP]9 [/SUP]Not even the archangel Michael did this. Michael argued with the devil about who would have the body of Moses.” But Michael did not dare to condemn even the devil for his false accusations. Instead, Michael said, “The Lord punish you!”
It was Michael who came and receives/ rescued the body of Moses because the devil wasn’t to destroy the body. Because Daniel 13:10, he himself said that it was Michael who came to save me.
Daniel 10:20-21 and Daniel 12:1 says that, Engel Michael will go with the man who was in the dram of to fight again. The man in the dram said, when I go back, Michal will come and help me. In Daniel 12:1 it says that, when Michael goes back, there will be huge problem during that time.

In Isaiah 49:1-6 it says, “Hear me, people by the sea. Listen to me, you faraway nations”-- The man is speaking to the nations or he is sending message to the nation. He is repeating Isaiah 41:1-3. He is telling us what God has done to him. The man said “The Lord called me before I was born. He called my name while I was still in my mother’s womb. [SUP]2 [/SUP]He used me to speak for him. He used me like a sharp sword”,--same as Isaiah 41:2, the man use the sward to crush the nations. “but he also held me in his hand to protect me” --God held the men in his had to protect him just, same as Isiah 41:2, God protected him and wake him up. “He used me like a sharp arrow, but he also kept me safe in his arrow bag” "--Same as Isiah 41:2, the man uses his sward to concur the kings. [SUP]3 [/SUP]He told me, “Israel, you are my servant. I will do wonderful things with you.” [SUP]4 [/SUP]I said, “I worked hard for nothing--The man is complaining to God by sassing that his hard work was a waits. I wore myself out, but I did nothing useful. I used all my power, --when do the man use his power? We will find out later. “but I did not really do anything. So the Lord must decide what to do with me”---the man is complaining to God on what God has to do with him for his reward. “He must decide my reward.” [SUP]5 [/SUP]The Lord is the one who made me in my mother’s womb, so that I could be his servant ---so the man is the servant of God. The server of God is now complaining that the God must decide a reword for him. What reword did God reword him? We will see the type of reward later. What kind of work did the mad did in the first place and his hard work was wasted. He wanted me to lead Jacob and Israel back to him ---so at first, God wanted the man to lead the Jacob’s tribes. Who lead the Jacob tribes, when they were in slavery in Egypt? It was Moses who led the Jacob’s tribes “The Lord gives me honor”. ---This time the lord gave the man honor to do the work “I get my strength from my God.” [SUP]6 [/SUP]And now he says, ---God reply to the man and said, “You are a very important servant to me. You must bring back to me the tribes of Jacob. You must bring back the people of Israel who are still alive. But I have something else for you to do that is even more important: I will make you a light for the other nations. ---God has something else for the man and that is the reword. That also means that God has another work for the servant of God to do. First he led the tribes of Jacob but now he will lead world “You will show people all over the world the way to be saved”. ----the servant of God will show the world how to be saved and that is the reword. God said I will make you a light of OTHER nations and you will show people all over the world to be saved. The word “other” means apart from Israel and the world “nations” means many nations which covers the entire world. And when everyone knows the servant of God, the kings and queens will bow on him as line 7 mentioned. The texts in Isaiah 49:1-6 & 41:25 strongly support Revelation 15:2-3, 10:7, 11:15 and it is all about Moses who will come back again.

Supporting text,

. In Isaiah 41:25, it says that, [SUP]25 [/SUP]“I called someone in the North to come. He is coming from the East where the sun rises, ---Moses is form the North but he will come at the East “and honors my name. He tramples kings the way a potter softens clay with his feet,­--- just the same thing Daniel saw in his dream about the stoned that destroy the statue and the statue become dust. Isaiah 41:25 supported that the man who looked like a human being is from the north and he went up to heaven (Daniel 7:13-14), and God gave him a work to do on earth and he will come back on earth and start the work at the East by putting God’s mark on the forehead of every people. The man died long time ago but wakes up and come, and now is coming from the East, Isaiah 41:1-3. Isaiah 51:9 9 Wake up! Wake up! Arm of the Lord, clothe yourself with strength. Show your power the way you did long ago, as you have from ancient times. You are the one who destroyed Rahab. You defeated the Dragon. People think that Moses died and therefore the bible says that wake up means that Moses did not die but will wake up and come do the power he did long ago. Moses was the one who showed God’s power long time ago, Exodus, 7:11&19, 8:5, 9:8, 16, 22&24, 10: 12, &21: 14:16, 15:25, 16:13-16, 17:4-6. This support Isaiah 49:3 the man said, “I used all my power” to lead the Israel people but the Israel people did not listen to Moses and most of them died and only Kalep and Joshua saved and therefore it seem like his hard work is a waits and he was complaining to God.

So the man is from the North, who died but wake up and now he is coming from East to put God’s mark on the forehead of every people who did not receive the Holy Spirit. God preserve Moses by taking him to heaven. God wake Moses up, meaning God will send him back on Earth to do the work starting at East. He will come and show God’s power like he has did long time ago because God gave him the power and Authority while he was in heaven. The work Moses will come and do is God’s secret plan, which is the final work.

Isaiah 46:11 says that, the man will come from the East to do all the things God as planned. And the PLAN of God is the God’s kingdom that will be established starting from the East as stated in Revelation 11:15, Revelation 10:7 and in Daniel 7:27. Revelation 10:7. God’s Kingdom (plan) will be completed when the seventh angel will blow the trumpet. Isaiah 46:10-11, [SUP]10 [/SUP]“In the beginning, I told you what would happen in the end. A long time ago, I told you things that have not happened yet. When I plan something, it happens. I do whatever I want to do. [SUP]11 [/SUP]I am calling a man from the east to do what I want. He will come like an eagle from a faraway country. He will do all that I have planned. Everything I said will happen just as I said it would”. God planned that a man will come from the east do everything as He planned. This supported what was mention earlier- that Moses will be with the people from the Far away country at the EAST to do what God has planned and that plan is to build the temple of God or the kingdom of God as stated in revelation 11:15, and Daniel 7:27.

God’s secret plan (work Kingdom of God) will be completed when the SEVENTH ENGEL blows the trumpets as stated In Revelation 11:15 it says that, the Seventh Engel blow his trumpets and the voice says that the plan is completed. and also in Ezekiel 9:11 it says the same thing but this time, the man who wears the Linen Cloths and Scribe pen and Ink Set south and said in loud voice, the work is completed. So the voice of the man and the trumpet of the Engel both mean the same thing. The man is Moses and the Engel is also Moses just as Ezekiel 9:2-3 and Revelation 7:2-3 mention.
Revelation 11:15, “[SUP]15 [/SUP]the seventh angel blew his trumpet. Then there were loud voices in heaven. The voices said, “The kingdom of the world has now become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Messiah”. And he will rule forever and ever.” Revelation 10:7 says that, “In the days when the Seventh Engel ready to blow his trumpet, God’s Secret Plan will be completed.” God’s secret Plan will be completed when the Sevenths Engel blow his trumpets and the seventh Engel blow his trumpet in Revelation 11:25 and when the trumpet is sound the voice said, the kingdom of the world has now become the kingdom of our lord and of his messiah. So basically, the God’s secret plan is to establish God’s kingdom on earth .So we now know that the God’s secret plan is to established the Kingdome he planned to established as stated in Daniel 2:35 & 44-45 Psalms 8:8-12. So the subject here is the Sevenths Engels. Revelation 10:7 says that, The seventh Engel is ready to blow his trumpet, and Gods secret plan will be completed, and in Revelation 11:15 says that, the sevenths Engels blows the trumpet and the world has become the kingdom of our lords, which is the God’s secret plan.
It is more possible that Moses and Michael will come back again to established the kingdom of God as Daniels saw in Daniel 2:35, 44-45,

Note: I can post more,
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
4,031
940
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Ok, that was when Jesus was baptized by John the Baptist, the Father and the Holy Ghost became the two witnesses:)

Mattthew 3:13 Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him.
Matthew 3:14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?
Matthew 3:15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.
Matthew 3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
Matthew 3:17And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
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I would say two attributes of one entity, God . What we call the eternal father and the eternal Son working together as one, make up the witness of God. Another way to say it, we could say the law and the prophets as one . The law represents the letter of the word the scriptures as that in which we do see or hear while the prophets represent the unseen spirit of the word as those he moved to bring it by and through it .. both working together .

Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
(Not separate from each other.... the law or the prophets )

We therefore can learn from that which is seen (scriptures) and it is confirmed as the Spirit of Christ witness to our spirit we are children of the faith of God, that not seen . If any man has not the Spirit of Christ the anointing Holy Spirit of God they simply do not belong to Him and therefore neither belong to the father. Again one entity (Spirit) of one God, working together as if it was two .

Joh 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
 
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badger58

Guest
Ok, that was when Jesus was baptized by John the Baptist, the Father and the Holy Ghost became the two witnesses:)

Mattthew 3:13 Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him.
Matthew 3:14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?
Matthew 3:15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.
Matthew 3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
Matthew 3:17And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
Thanks fredoheaven !
Excellent observation. At the very start of Jesus ministry, He receives the heavenly witness from his Father and the Holy Spirit.
One thing I have learned after studying the word of God for 40 years is that you can gloss over a passage 100 times and then(
BAM) a light goes on and you have eyes to see and ears to hear. I realize that until God opens our eyes, we just can't see it. Thank you so much!
That's why we need each other. The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit want us all in the body of Christ to work together. We are here to edify and stir up one another.
Thank God that we have his written word. What a blessing!
REMEMBER TRUTH WILL NEVER FEAR INVESTIGATION !
 

png

Junior Member
Apr 18, 2016
13
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Elijah and John are excluded, many believe that it is Jesus and John the baptise who already came.
John wrote about the things that will happen behind or in the future in the book of Revelation. John cannot repeat What Jesus and the John the baptised did in the past. The story of what Jesus did can be written down, John cannot says that Jesus and John the baptised will come and die again. Became, Revelation 11:7-8 says that the two witnesses WILL die at the location where they killed their lord and saviour (Jesus Christ). That does not mean someone dies long ago and Jesus and John will come again and died at that location. It means that the two witnesses die at the location they killed Jesus Christ. This differentiates Jesus and John the baptised from the two witnesses by saying the two witnesses will die at the location where they killed their lord and saviour.
Secondly, Jesus never rose again in 3 and 1/2 days, Jesus rose again in after 3 days, Matthew 12:40. The two man rose again in 3 and ½ days. This also differentiates Jesus and the two Witnesses.
Thirdly, both man had the voice form heaven at the same time and both went up to heaven at the same time, Rev 11:11, and not one after the other at different time and location. This also differentiates Jesus and the two Witnesses.
What is very important here is that, the two witnesses will die at the location where they killed their lords (Jesus Christ). The two witnesses will prophecy for 3 and 1/2 years and after that they will be killed.
The Earthquake that will happen during the time of the two witnesses will be a different from other earthquakes one earth. The earthquakes will come with the two men and not at any ordinary time. To pin point the right Earthquakes, the two men must die first at the location where they killed their lord. Because when they died 3 and 1/2 days will remain, and when the 3 and 1/2 days is over, they will went up to heaven that is the time when the huge earthquakes will come.
Other earthquakes are ordinary because it does not accompany the two witnesses. Yes, other earthquakes could be the sings of what will happen anytime shortly in the future and they are the sings of last days. And also other earthquakes are signalling us to show us the right earthquake at the right time and at the right location.
The two witnesses have the power to send Earthquakes to destroy any city in the work, Reveal ion 11:6. “The two witnesses have the power to make water become blood and the two wittiness has the power to send any king of Plague to the Earth”. So they have the power to send earthquakes. “They can do this as many time as they want”. So they can send many earthquakes as many times as they want. Therefore, the Earthquake that will come when they will be killed is different from other earthquake.
Moreover, the two men have the equal power. None of them have greater power then the other. Both have the power to make water to become blood. Both have the power to make rain to fall down. Both have the power to send any kind of plague to the Earth. This also differentiates Jesus and John the baptised from the two witnesses. So, the two men are different from Jesus and John the Baptise.
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People will share gifts and happy when they see that the two men die. They will be happy because the two men brought much suffering to the people. Actually, who are those who will be happy?
Many people in and around the work are Christians. So, when the two men come and prophecy for God, there is no reason why people will go against the two men be happy and share gifts when they see them dying. May be, those who do not believe in Jesus Christ will be happy and also those who are not Christian will be happy.
These two men will bring much suffering to the people living on earth. Will they use the power to kill the power by sending plagues to the earth? People will not know what the two men will do. They will not know that the two men bring earthquakes and turn the water into read and stop the rain and send plague to the earth. If the two men in one country and send the plague on the other countries how will they know that the two men did it. They will not know so why will the Non-Christians be angry about the two men, and share gifts when they see them dying.
May be they will be at one location perform the miracles in the public by sending plague and earthquakes and stopping rain at that particular location and people who are do not believe in Jesus Christ will not be happy with the two men. But those who sent by God never kill or give pain to the people with the plague. Only when the people disobey God or did not believe in God’s messengers then the plague killed people (like Moses in the past). So it says the people will be happy because the tow man cause pain to them and these people are those who did not believe the two witnesses sent by God.
If they are at one location and send plague at the same location then there is a possibility that the people will know that the two men did all this, so they may not be happy. But why will they be not happy because they bible says that the two men are witnesses of God. May be because, they may not believe in the two men that God send them. Or may because they will take the two men as the false prophets and kill the two men at the location where they killed their lord.
People will see the powers the two men will exercise and they will go against the two men because they will think that they are the false prophets. If they believe in God, then they many/will not go against the two men. May be they will go against because they will be confused. Why they will be confused? May be because they may think that they are already saved and they may think that they already know the truth. Just like the same confusion in the past before Jesus Christ actually came. They believe in the law of Moses and when Jesus came down and say he is the son of God, they used that against Jesus by says that its blaspheme and they killed him.
It says that people from every nation, tribes, race, and language group will see the body and they will not burry the body. The words, “every nations, language group and nations” means everyone one. Including the Christian countries and nations. Also including non-Christian countries or nations. Every one. That means everyone will see and be happy and share gifts when they see that the two men are killed. That also means that the two men will not be at one location.
Everyone will see the body and they will refuse to burry because they two men brought much trouble to the people on earth.
They will go against the men because they think that they have already saved and they do not need anyone to teach them about God, Jesus and Holy Spirit. May be, they will confuse between the false prophets and the prophets of God and kill the two witness. May be, they did not understand bible properly and did not know the plan of God about will happen after Jesus and they will kill the two men.
Those people who will be affected by the plague sent by the two men are not belong to God. Those who are belonging to God and know wat is going will not be affected by the plague.
That may include Christian and non- Christians for those who will celebrate when they see that the two men killed.
When the two witness says that the have been sent by God then that is where people will killed the two witnesses of God. All this things will happen in the future because John wrote the book of revelation about what will happen in the future and therefore the two witnesses will come in the future and they are different form John and Jesus himself. The time their death rose again different form death and rose gain for Jesus, 3 days for Jesus and 3 and ½ days for the two witnesses. The bible does not single out one person different from the other, both man had the voice form heaven at the same time and both went up to heaven at the same time, Rev 11:11, and not one after the other at different time and location. What is very important here is that, the two witnesses will die at the location where they killed their lords (Jesus Christ). The two witnesses will prophecy for 3 and 1/2 years and after that they will be killed.
 

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Junior Member
Apr 18, 2016
13
0
1
Ok, that was when Jesus was baptized by John the Baptist, the Father and the Holy Ghost became the two witnesses:)

Mattthew 3:13 Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him.
Matthew 3:14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?
Matthew 3:15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.
Matthew 3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
Matthew 3:17And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
We can to mixed every thing up. we have to have enough text to support what we say.

People will share gifts and happy when they see that the two men die. They will be happy because the two men brought much suffering to the people. Actually, who are those who will be happy?
Many people in and around the work are Christians. So, when the two men come and prophecy for God, there is no reason why people will go against the two men be happy and share gifts when they see them dying. May be, those who do not believe in Jesus Christ will be happy and also those who are not Christian will be happy.
These two men will bring much suffering to the people living on earth. Will they use the power to kill the power by sending plagues to the earth? People will not know what the two men will do. They will not know that the two men bring earthquakes and turn the water into read and stop the rain and send plague to the earth. If the two men in one country and send the plague on the other countries how will they know that the two men did it. They will not know so why will the Non-Christians be angry about the two men, and share gifts when they see them dying.
May be they will be at one location perform the miracles in the public by sending plague and earthquakes and stopping rain at that particular location and people who are do not believe in Jesus Christ will not be happy with the two men. But those who sent by God never kill or give pain to the people with the plague. Only when the people disobey God or did not believe in God’s messengers then the plague killed people (like Moses in the past). So it says the people will be happy because the tow man cause pain to them and these people are those who did not believe the two witnesses sent by God.
If they are at one location and send plague at the same location then there is a possibility that the people will know that the two men did all this, so they may not be happy. But why will they be not happy because they bible says that the two men are witnesses of God. May be because, they may not believe in the two men that God send them. Or may because they will take the two men as the false prophets and kill the two men at the location where they killed their lord.
People will see the powers the two men will exercise and they will go against the two men because they will think that they are the false prophets. If they believe in God, then they many/will not go against the two men. May be they will go against because they will be confused. Why they will be confused? May be because they may think that they are already saved and they may think that they already know the truth. Just like the same confusion in the past before Jesus Christ actually came. They believe in the law of Moses and when Jesus came down and say he is the son of God, they used that against Jesus by says that its blaspheme and they killed him.
It says that people from every nation, tribes, race, and language group will see the body and they will not burry the body. The words, “every nations, language group and nations” means everyone one. Including the Christian countries and nations. Also including non-Christian countries or nations. Every one. That means everyone will see and be happy and share gifts when they see that the two men are killed. That also means that the two men will not be at one location.
Everyone will see the body and they will refuse to burry because they two men brought much trouble to the people on earth.
They will go against the men because they think that they have already saved and they do not need anyone to teach them about God, Jesus and Holy Spirit. May be, they will confuse between the false prophets and the prophets of God and kill the two witness. May be, they did not understand bible properly and did not know the plan of God about will happen after Jesus and they will kill the two men.
Those people who will be affected by the plague sent by the two men are not belong to God. Those who are belonging to God and know wat is going will not be affected by the plague.
That may include Christian and non- Christians for those who will celebrate when they see that the two men killed.
When the two witness says that the have been sent by God then that is where people will killed the two witnesses of God. All this things will happen in the future because John wrote the book of revelation about what will happen in the future and therefore the two witnesses will come in the future and they are different form John and Jesus himself. The time their death rose again different form death and rose gain for Jesus, 3 days for Jesus and 3 and ½ days for the two witnesses. The bible does not single out one person different from the other, both man had the voice form heaven at the same time and both went up to heaven at the same time, Rev 11:11, and not one after the other at different time and location. What is very important here is that, the two witnesses will die at the location where they killed their lords (Jesus Christ). The two witnesses will prophecy for 3 and 1/2 years and after that they will be killed.

Secondly, Jesus never rose again in 3 and 1/2 days, Jesus rose again in after 3 days, Matthew 12:40. The two man rose again in 3 and ½ days. This also differentiates Jesus and the two Witnesses.
Thirdly, both man had the voice form heaven at the same time and both went up to heaven at the same time, Rev 11:11, and not one after the other at different time and location. This also differentiates Jesus and the two Witnesses.
What is very important here is that, the two witnesses will die at the location where they killed their lords (Jesus Christ). The two witnesses will prophecy for 3 and 1/2 years and after that they will be killed.
The Earthquake that will happen during the time of the two witnesses will be a different from other earthquakes one earth. The earthquakes will come with the two men and not at any ordinary time. To pin point the right Earthquakes, the two men must die first at the location where they killed their lord. Because when they died 3 and 1/2 days will remain, and when the 3 and 1/2 days is over, they will went up to heaven that is the time when the huge earthquakes will come.
Other earthquakes are ordinary because it does not accompany the two witnesses. Yes, other earthquakes could be the sings of what will happen anytime shortly in the future and they are the sings of last days. And also other earthquakes are signalling us to show us the right earthquake at the right time and at the right location.
The two witnesses have the power to send Earthquakes to destroy any city in the work, Reveal ion 11:6. “The two witnesses have the power to make water become blood and the two wittiness has the power to send any king of Plague to the Earth”. So they have the power to send earthquakes. “They can do this as many time as they want”. So they can send many earthquakes as many times as they want. Therefore, the Earthquake that will come when they will be killed is different from other earthquake.
Moreover, the two men have the equal power. None of them have greater power then the other. Both have the power to make water to become blood. Both have the power to make rain to fall down. Both have the power to send any kind of plague to the Earth. This also differentiates Jesus and John the baptised from the two witnesses. So, the two men are different from Jesus and John the Baptise.
 
R

RobbyEarl

Guest
The two witnesses are without a doubt to me these. Enoch and Elijah as these are the only men that have not died as we know of. It is appointed for man once to die. The argument for Moses make no sense as He died and was buried by God
 

png

Junior Member
Apr 18, 2016
13
0
1
you should asked the next question and that is, Peter asked about the tow man that was appearing which was Moses and Elijah. Jesus said Elijah had already came. Elijah came to prepare the way for the son of man to walk through. But peter never asked about the question, if Elijah appear to indicated that he will come and prepare the way for the son of man then He did not asked about next question by says that why do Moses have to appear with Jesus. so what will Do if he appear with Jesus, Matthew 17:2-3, 5-10
 

png

Junior Member
Apr 18, 2016
13
0
1
The two witnesses are without a doubt to me these. Enoch and Elijah as these are the only men that have not died as we know of. It is appointed for man once to die. The argument for Moses make no sense as He died and was buried by God
which was Moses and Elijah. Jesus said Elijah had already came. Elijah came to prepare the way for the son of man to walk through. But peter never asked about the question, if Elijah appear to indicated that he will come and prepare the way for the son of man then He did not asked about next question by says that why do Moses have to appear with Jesus. so what will Do if he appear with Jesus, Matthew 17:2-3, 5-10
 
R

RobbyEarl

Guest
which was Moses and Elijah. Jesus said Elijah had already came. Elijah came to prepare the way for the son of man to walk through. But peter never asked about the question, if Elijah appear to indicated that he will come and prepare the way for the son of man then He did not asked about next question by says that why do Moses have to appear with Jesus. so what will Do if he appear with Jesus, Matthew 17:2-3, 5-10
You might want to retype cause IDK what you are saying.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,373
113
The two witnesses are without a doubt to me these. Enoch and Elijah as these are the only men that have not died as we know of. It is appointed for man once to die. The argument for Moses make no sense as He died and was buried by God
Hello RobbyEarl,

I agree, as I have always leaned to that same conclusion.
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
4,031
940
113
which was Moses and Elijah. Jesus said Elijah had already came. Elijah came to prepare the way for the son of man to walk through. But peter never asked about the question, if Elijah appear to indicated that he will come and prepare the way for the son of man then He did not asked about next question by says that why do Moses have to appear with Jesus. so what will Do if he appear with Jesus, Matthew 17:2-3, 5-10
yea sure you might be talking of the John the Baptist i guess because it is seen in the scriptures the spirit and power of Elias came to John the Baptist.

Mark 8:28 And they answered, John the Baptist: but some say, Elias; and others, One of theprophets.

Matthew 16:14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets

Luke 1:17 And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.
 
B

badger58

Guest
Many think this is referring to the millennium after the second coming of Jesus, but is in fact talking about a time prior to Jesus second coming. I think its speaking of the 3 1/2 years that the Two Witnesses are here.
If you do your homework and examine the different words used when the translators are speaking of the Lord Jehovah (the Father) or the Lord Jesus, you will see Micah 1:2-4 is about our Father. He is coming to the earth to be a witness before the sentencing.