The Unanswerable Questions (Extended)
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K
Yes the old covenant carried a ministry of condemnation and death by the written ordinances.
Which is what the Jews focused to much on and which why Jesus made the statement that they focused on such but forgot to see the underlining truth of the law. They focused to much on condemning and putting to death those who broke any of the Mosaic laws, and not on how it showed a better way to live.
Lord Jesus came in and showed that the better way to live was to walk in love for all others.
There is still condemnation and death still to this day.
However the condemnation is to those who walk by the flesh and not by the Spirit, as walking by the flesh means the person is continuing to willfully sin, be carnal minded, and obey their lusts. Walking by the Spirit means you walk by His guidance, teachings, and the gifts (fruits) of the Spirit.
Also the death under the new covenant for sinning is not physical death in the flesh, but spiritual death in the lake of fire for those who do not believe and also those who do not obey the gospel of Christ. To walk accordingly to His teachings and commands as Apostle Paul shows a true faith by love will uphold..............
Your record keeps skipping and repeating the same wrong things over and over.
It comes from your indoctrination in a false religion. Its why you use your complete judaizers bible instead of the real bible.
2 Peter 3:16-18
[SUP]16 [/SUP]As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.
I noticed you post verses 16 and 17 a lot but never include verse 18. Is verse 18 in the complete judaizers bible?
What is the grace and knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ?
Well it starts here;
Matthew 11:28 [SUP] [/SUP]Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
There's that word rest, again.
I wonder what that's all about?
Hebrews 4:9-11
[SUP]9 [/SUP]There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
Let us enter into that rest and not fall after the error of the wicked, unbelief. Ohhhh, wooops. You thought the error of the wicked was not working at the law....
Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
Clearly, the error of the wicked is committed by those who remain under the curse.
Unbelief is what causes someone to remain stuck in their work at the law. They don't believe that Christ can give them rest. They don't believe they can enter into the rest of God. So they remain under the law. Still waiting to come to Christ.
Galatians 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
The faith that is still left to be revealed to you is rest in Christ. Unfortunately for you, your religion has you stuck in your works at the law, as does the version of the bible you read.
Galatians 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
It comes from your indoctrination in a false religion. Its why you use your complete judaizers bible instead of the real bible.
2 Peter 3:16-18
[SUP]16 [/SUP]As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.
I noticed you post verses 16 and 17 a lot but never include verse 18. Is verse 18 in the complete judaizers bible?
What is the grace and knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ?
Well it starts here;
Matthew 11:28 [SUP] [/SUP]Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
There's that word rest, again.
I wonder what that's all about?
Hebrews 4:9-11
[SUP]9 [/SUP]There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
Let us enter into that rest and not fall after the error of the wicked, unbelief. Ohhhh, wooops. You thought the error of the wicked was not working at the law....
Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
Clearly, the error of the wicked is committed by those who remain under the curse.
Unbelief is what causes someone to remain stuck in their work at the law. They don't believe that Christ can give them rest. They don't believe they can enter into the rest of God. So they remain under the law. Still waiting to come to Christ.
Galatians 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
The faith that is still left to be revealed to you is rest in Christ. Unfortunately for you, your religion has you stuck in your works at the law, as does the version of the bible you read.
Galatians 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
K
Hi, welcome to the forum. I've not visited lately, and it's been refreshing to read your posts, glad you're here.
Hold fast to truth friend, for it a rare treasure. Many say they just "love Jesus"..but they don't even bother to read what He says..so...guard your heart, and be aware of the Jezebel spirit who hates Almighty's instructions, and anyone who teaches them. shalom.
Hold fast to truth friend, for it a rare treasure. Many say they just "love Jesus"..but they don't even bother to read what He says..so...guard your heart, and be aware of the Jezebel spirit who hates Almighty's instructions, and anyone who teaches them. shalom.
K
great. every mature discussion about the Creator's instructions should always include sanitary measures. Nowadays there are lot's of neat inventions..have you heard of them? for example, we don't usually "squat" in the woods like a bear, so we do not have to cover it up when we're finished we simply flush.
Hi, welcome to the forum. I've not visited lately, and it's been refreshing to read your posts, glad you're here. Hold fast to truth friend, for it a rare treasure. Many say they just "love Jesus"..but they don't even bother to read what He says..so...guard your heart, and be aware of the Jezebel spirit who hates Almighty's instructions, and anyone who teaches them. shalom.
Hold fast to truth friend, for it a rare treasure. Many say they just "love Jesus"..but they don't even bother to read what He says..so...guard your heart, and be aware of the Jezebel spirit who hates Almighty's instructions, and anyone who teaches them. shalom.Hmm. You just gave me an excellent study for next shabbat. I gotta start reading about this Jezebel spirit. It sounds familiar. Thanks for stopping by.
@ Grandpa
When it comes to sacrifices, the big misconception of mainstream christianity is that you can't believe in the messiah, but still offer gifts to God. When Abel offered the first sacrifice, does it not say that God liked his gift? And when Noah offered burnt offerings after they came out of the ark, does it not say that the Lord "smelled the pleasing aroma of the burnt offering"?
There should be no question that the Lord likes burnt offerings. They aren't just about atonement for sins. Otherwise, the Messiah himself wouldn't have said that HE HIMSELF will eat the passover lamb in the kingdom of God.
And he said to them, "I have eagerly desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer. For I tell you, I will not eat it again until it finds fulfillment in the kingdom of God." (Luke 22:16)
Ezekiel chapter 46 goes into great detail about the sacrificial system being restored during the millenial reign of Jesus Christ. So anyone who says "animal sacrifices are never coming back" have disceived themselves.
When it comes to sacrifices, the big misconception of mainstream christianity is that you can't believe in the messiah, but still offer gifts to God. When Abel offered the first sacrifice, does it not say that God liked his gift? And when Noah offered burnt offerings after they came out of the ark, does it not say that the Lord "smelled the pleasing aroma of the burnt offering"?
There should be no question that the Lord likes burnt offerings. They aren't just about atonement for sins. Otherwise, the Messiah himself wouldn't have said that HE HIMSELF will eat the passover lamb in the kingdom of God.
And he said to them, "I have eagerly desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer. For I tell you, I will not eat it again until it finds fulfillment in the kingdom of God." (Luke 22:16)
Ezekiel chapter 46 goes into great detail about the sacrificial system being restored during the millenial reign of Jesus Christ. So anyone who says "animal sacrifices are never coming back" have disceived themselves.
Luke 22:15-16
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer:
[SUP]16 [/SUP]For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God.
The Lord Jesus Christ doesn't say He will eat the Passover Lamb in the kingdom of God.
He says that is the last passover He will eat until the Passover is Fulfilled in the Kingdom of God.
You don't know that the Lord Jesus Christ is the Passover, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world?
Hebrews 8:4-7
[SUP]4 [/SUP]For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer:
[SUP]16 [/SUP]For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God.
The Lord Jesus Christ doesn't say He will eat the Passover Lamb in the kingdom of God.
He says that is the last passover He will eat until the Passover is Fulfilled in the Kingdom of God.
You don't know that the Lord Jesus Christ is the Passover, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world?
Hebrews 8:4-7
[SUP]4 [/SUP]For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
S
Eliwood, I am not monitoring this thread anymore but I did want to interject a few comments.
In relation to the influence of heretical organizations such as the Armstrongite cult of Restored Church of God and 119ministries and other Judaizing organizations, I would like to recommend a few things.
One, read these books of the Bible, either with a good commentary or alone: Romans, Galatians, Colossians, Hebrews. Don't just skim over them; read each verse and ask yourself what the context really is. If you can't figure it out, read commentaries. Ask yourself whether the assertions of the commentary writers are reasonable given the context.
Two, consider the other point of view from THEIR materials. These cults misrepresent the other point of view. That is how you fall into bondage to them. Whether these teachers are deceived themselves or are actively seeking to deceive others, I do not know. I would suppose that if they were in a real relationship with God, they would fear to do the latter, but I believe there are wicked people who do such things. They are tools of Satan, so either way, there are evil forces behind it.
Read this proverb
Proverbs 18:13 If one gives an answer before he hears, it is his folly and shame.
This reflects the fact that fools decide something before hearing the other side of the argument.
Three, if you continue on and join one of those heretical groups, don't close your mind to their inconsistencies. You will be presented with them. The tendency is to justify their inconsistencies, doctrinally and behaviorally, because you think they represent God. That should be the real warning sign that you are brainwashed.
Four, you can depend on me addressing potential heretical conversations in the chat room every time I am there. I won't allow others to be swayed by bad doctrine, especially younger believers of any age. And, it's not only me; there's plenty of sound believers in the chat room who won't allow Judaizing to be pushed there.
Regarding the comments in the room yesterday, faith produces salvation produces obedience. Obedience is not to ceremonial or ritualistic elements of the Old Covenant such as physical circumcision, the weekly Sabbath, holy days, new moons, clean and unclean meats, or tithing laws. So, obedience is a necessary fruit of salvation, but it is never perfect and it is not obedience to the Old Covenant. New Covenant Christians are not under the Old Covenant. Obviously moral absolutes were reflected in the Old Covenant, and are part of the New Covenant, but they didn't "carry over"..they are simply moral absolutes that apply to everyone at all times. The above elements are not part of that. They were specific to ancient Israel.
I am not inconsistent and I do include tithing as part of the Old Covenant. So does my church. Giving is by free will and not by compulsion. That's another piece of propaganda from the Judaizers..and they can find particular churches that teach tithing as a Christian obligation, but there are other churches that are perfectly consistent with free will giving in regards to this. This is another misrepresentation that I've seen you conveying here.
I don't really blame you for parroting their theology. I did the same thing as a 22 year old fooled by Herbert Armstrong's false teachings.
Anyways I am not monitoring this thread so I likely won't see the response but I wanted to make these comments.
In relation to the influence of heretical organizations such as the Armstrongite cult of Restored Church of God and 119ministries and other Judaizing organizations, I would like to recommend a few things.
One, read these books of the Bible, either with a good commentary or alone: Romans, Galatians, Colossians, Hebrews. Don't just skim over them; read each verse and ask yourself what the context really is. If you can't figure it out, read commentaries. Ask yourself whether the assertions of the commentary writers are reasonable given the context.
Two, consider the other point of view from THEIR materials. These cults misrepresent the other point of view. That is how you fall into bondage to them. Whether these teachers are deceived themselves or are actively seeking to deceive others, I do not know. I would suppose that if they were in a real relationship with God, they would fear to do the latter, but I believe there are wicked people who do such things. They are tools of Satan, so either way, there are evil forces behind it.
Read this proverb
Proverbs 18:13 If one gives an answer before he hears, it is his folly and shame.
This reflects the fact that fools decide something before hearing the other side of the argument.
Three, if you continue on and join one of those heretical groups, don't close your mind to their inconsistencies. You will be presented with them. The tendency is to justify their inconsistencies, doctrinally and behaviorally, because you think they represent God. That should be the real warning sign that you are brainwashed.
Four, you can depend on me addressing potential heretical conversations in the chat room every time I am there. I won't allow others to be swayed by bad doctrine, especially younger believers of any age. And, it's not only me; there's plenty of sound believers in the chat room who won't allow Judaizing to be pushed there.
Regarding the comments in the room yesterday, faith produces salvation produces obedience. Obedience is not to ceremonial or ritualistic elements of the Old Covenant such as physical circumcision, the weekly Sabbath, holy days, new moons, clean and unclean meats, or tithing laws. So, obedience is a necessary fruit of salvation, but it is never perfect and it is not obedience to the Old Covenant. New Covenant Christians are not under the Old Covenant. Obviously moral absolutes were reflected in the Old Covenant, and are part of the New Covenant, but they didn't "carry over"..they are simply moral absolutes that apply to everyone at all times. The above elements are not part of that. They were specific to ancient Israel.
I am not inconsistent and I do include tithing as part of the Old Covenant. So does my church. Giving is by free will and not by compulsion. That's another piece of propaganda from the Judaizers..and they can find particular churches that teach tithing as a Christian obligation, but there are other churches that are perfectly consistent with free will giving in regards to this. This is another misrepresentation that I've seen you conveying here.
I don't really blame you for parroting their theology. I did the same thing as a 22 year old fooled by Herbert Armstrong's false teachings.
Anyways I am not monitoring this thread so I likely won't see the response but I wanted to make these comments.
@Grandpa
I don't think the word "fulfill" means the same thing as "abolish". Maybe that's the issue here. Here's how the websters dictionary defines it:
ful·fill
fo͝olˈfil/
verb
[COLOR=#878787 !important][/COLOR]
I don't think the word "fulfill" means the same thing as "abolish". Maybe that's the issue here. Here's how the websters dictionary defines it:
ful·fill
fo͝olˈfil/
verb
[COLOR=#878787 !important][/COLOR]
- 1.
bring to completion or reality; achieve or realize (something desired, promised, or predicted).
[COLOR=#878787 !important]"he wouldn't be able to fulfill his ambition to visit Naples"[/COLOR]
[TABLE="class: vk_tbl vk_gy"]
[TR]
[TD="class: lr_dct_nyms_ttl"]synonyms:[/TD]
[TD]achieve, attain, realize, actualize, make happen, succeed in, bring to completion, bring to fruition, satisfy"he fulfilled his ambition to travel the world"
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
- [COLOR=#878787 !important][/COLOR]
- 2.
carry out (a task, duty, or role) as required, pledged, or expected.
[COLOR=#878787 !important]"some officials were dismissed because they could not fulfill their duties"
[/COLOR]
Remember colossians 2:17? The verse you guys always like to quote to make it sounds like God abolished his feast days?
These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ. (Colossians 2:17)
It's clear that the Passover is a shadow of Christs's sacrifice. Just like the other feast days foreshadow other future event that are still yet to come. Like the Millenial reign (feast of tabernacles) or the day Satan will sealed up in the bottomless pit (day of atonement). Pentecost (or the feast of firstfruits) also foreshadowed the birth of the church.
Anyway, I need to apologize again, because you've managed to offend me, and cause me to get argumentative.
These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ. (Colossians 2:17)
It's clear that the Passover is a shadow of Christs's sacrifice. Just like the other feast days foreshadow other future event that are still yet to come. Like the Millenial reign (feast of tabernacles) or the day Satan will sealed up in the bottomless pit (day of atonement). Pentecost (or the feast of firstfruits) also foreshadowed the birth of the church.
Anyway, I need to apologize again, because you've managed to offend me, and cause me to get argumentative.
S
The Day of Atonement is about Jesus Christ.
The Armstrongite view of the Day of Atonement is false.
The two goats portrayed two different aspects of Christ's sacrifice. The first aspect is that his blood was shed for us. The second aspect is that he bore our sins away, outside of the camp, like the second goat.
I realize that destroys the false chronology that Armstrongites claim, but it's pretty basic.
In addition, the Feast of Tabernacles relates to Jesus becoming flesh and dwelling amongst us. He "tabernacled" amongst us. It points directly to the Incarnation.
The Armstrongite view of the Day of Atonement is false.
The two goats portrayed two different aspects of Christ's sacrifice. The first aspect is that his blood was shed for us. The second aspect is that he bore our sins away, outside of the camp, like the second goat.
I realize that destroys the false chronology that Armstrongites claim, but it's pretty basic.
In addition, the Feast of Tabernacles relates to Jesus becoming flesh and dwelling amongst us. He "tabernacled" amongst us. It points directly to the Incarnation.