The works of the law of righteousness vs works by faith to justification
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Yes I did have something to say about you comment. I'll say it another way. Your response proves the point that I was making. I'll add a scripture:
1 Timothy 1:9-11 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
[SUP]11 [/SUP]According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.
1 Timothy 1:9-11 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
[SUP]11 [/SUP]According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.
why not just go to the cross and die with Christ deeper and deeper, because then just maybe we might be able to see the new life deeper and deeper as Paul was Saul did daily, kept up a co-crucifixion with Christ daily HMM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I wonder what this might cause to happen in us if we leave trying to be imitators to participators in the death first carrying that about in our bodies being dead to self, and alive to God through the resurrected Christ
WOW!!! Now that's what I like!!! Dying daily is the key. God has given us all we need so we understand what we need to die to.
Hebrews 4:12 (KJV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP]For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
This is in Hebrews???? Written to the Hebrews???? Oh wow, what a coincidence. LOL
Hebrews 4:12 (KJV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP]For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
This is in Hebrews???? Written to the Hebrews???? Oh wow, what a coincidence. LOL
I like for it begins at the heart transplant and works its way out permeating the whole body that went to death with Christ at the cross, and as one decides daily to be co-crucified with Christ to old self, one sees further the new live that God has planted within them that started at the heart, and the Love of God is spread abroad through out our whole being, giving all credit to God, and none to old self or new self, for God is the only one good given for us to partake in, and share to others
Being participators past imitators as once UI started as an imitator, now a participator
Being participators past imitators as once UI started as an imitator, now a participator
E
wow..
No, you still have not answered.
Let me give you a clue how you answer someone. You show them in their post the points they got wrong and why.
You do not just tell them they are wrong. This makes you look bad.
So either show me how my points are in error. Or prove you have no counterpoint.
and to prove even this wrong.
those people th elaw was written to? They are people who do not have christ. why do they need the law? to bring them to Christ. those who have found Christ already know those things are true and thus are no longer judged by them.
As paul said to the corinthian church.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals,[SUP][a][/SUP] nor sodomites, [SUP]10 [/SUP]nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. [SUP]11 [/SUP]And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.
Show me where Paul said they stopped their sin, or did not struggle with it, and it was because of this they were justified?
it does not. it says they were washed , santified and justified/. Not by the law/ But by THE SPIRIT OF OUR GOD.
Keep trying to get holy by the law. you will fail
keep trying to bring repentnance of others by the law, you will fail
People need God because they are judged. Not judged by modern day pharisees.
They need to fill the void in their lives, Only Christ can do this. Until christ fills that void, no amount of law will help them fill that empty void, they will continue searching for ANYTHING which they think will make them happy, and never find it!
It is only God that can and does do this, and can through you, me and all that believe if we might
Well just maybe we need to daily go to God and co-crucify our flesh, and maybe we might sink deeper into being dead to self as you pointed you are not dead to flesh and want to know God deeper and can't quite manage to do this
Paul co-crucified with Christ daily and the more death of himself the deeper it got he was finally able to say
Galatians 2:20
I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.
So just maybe it takes a daily co-crucifixion of self, in order to see the new life God gave you through the resurrected Christ?
Well just maybe we need to daily go to God and co-crucify our flesh, and maybe we might sink deeper into being dead to self as you pointed you are not dead to flesh and want to know God deeper and can't quite manage to do this
Paul co-crucified with Christ daily and the more death of himself the deeper it got he was finally able to say
Galatians 2:20
I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.
So just maybe it takes a daily co-crucifixion of self, in order to see the new life God gave you through the resurrected Christ?
I already detected that you would take no exhortation from me.
Matthew 7:15-20 (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Not accusing you of anything, brother, and I think we could agree that the door swings both ways. I addressed the state of America, and the state of lawlessness, and how the church fits in. You missed the whole point of my comments and accused me of being legalistic. If you can't see how you fit in by your comments concerning the state of the union, it is clear that you didn't even try to discern. The lack of discernment in your arguments prove the point I was making. How much more explicit can I get?
Matthew 7:15-20 (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Not accusing you of anything, brother, and I think we could agree that the door swings both ways. I addressed the state of America, and the state of lawlessness, and how the church fits in. You missed the whole point of my comments and accused me of being legalistic. If you can't see how you fit in by your comments concerning the state of the union, it is clear that you didn't even try to discern. The lack of discernment in your arguments prove the point I was making. How much more explicit can I get?
maybe this is because man needs to die to himself, his selfish tendencies, go to the cross and die with Christ there to self as Paul did, daily so much that he came to the point of definitely dead to self and alive to God
Co-crucified to self and he knew of self prior to knowing God through Chirst
Galatians 2:20
I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.
Co-crucified to self and he knew of self prior to knowing God through Chirst
Galatians 2:20
I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.
E
exhortation?
you do not even know what this is. You STILL have not commented on ANYTHING I said. and you want me and others to listen to you?
from what I see, this speaks of you. Your trying to put people under law. and are part of the problem.
No. I countered your arguments. I knew exactly what you were saying,, I have heard it so many times before.
So your telling me
1. America is not selfish?
2. America is not greedy (because of selfishness)
3. That america is not trying to fill the hole left in their flesh caused by the separation of man from god due to sin?
4. That america is trying to fill that hole by commiting these sins, and living these lifestyes that they THINK will fill that void and make them happy. But fail to do so?
and finally. That they way to their hearts is not the law. But to fill that hole with Christ, which will cause them to stop being selfish, Start living like Christ and become others focused?
Prove those things are wrong!!
you do not even know what this is. You STILL have not commented on ANYTHING I said. and you want me and others to listen to you?
from what I see, this speaks of you. Your trying to put people under law. and are part of the problem.
No. I countered your arguments. I knew exactly what you were saying,, I have heard it so many times before.
So your telling me
1. America is not selfish?
2. America is not greedy (because of selfishness)
3. That america is not trying to fill the hole left in their flesh caused by the separation of man from god due to sin?
4. That america is trying to fill that hole by commiting these sins, and living these lifestyes that they THINK will fill that void and make them happy. But fail to do so?
and finally. That they way to their hearts is not the law. But to fill that hole with Christ, which will cause them to stop being selfish, Start living like Christ and become others focused?
Prove those things are wrong!!
Why did you think I was arguing from the beginning. If I was, then I would like to hear from others reading this thread from post #262. You fired first, finally raising accusation that I'm trying to endorse the law according to what you have heard before. I understand your argument very well cause I've heard it before from others. If you think for a minute that I'm insinuating that others and I should be under the condemnation of the law, then you have missed the entire point, yet proving what I was saying by missing it, and starting an argument that I have heard for years. As far as exhorting you, please get the point that is clearly defined. Until you can acknowledge that I will not entertain responding to your comments again as Rickshafer has written, and I agree with him. Thank you, and rail all you want. I'll read what you post, but I will no longer waist my time. Again, my our Lord bless you with wisdom.
Jesus brings Division! As we near the end, we will all be part of 2 distinct classes.
Those who keep the Commandments of God & Those who do not. There will be a Large group of christians that claim Jesus, only they will not keep His law. They will be keeping the Mark of the Beast,, all while claimng to be followers of Jesus. There will be another group that claims Jesus as well, only they will be keeping the Commandments of God. One group will hate and despise the other group. They will even seek their lives, to kill them,, all while claimng Jesus! Ought to be interesting!
Those who keep the Commandments of God & Those who do not. There will be a Large group of christians that claim Jesus, only they will not keep His law. They will be keeping the Mark of the Beast,, all while claimng to be followers of Jesus. There will be another group that claims Jesus as well, only they will be keeping the Commandments of God. One group will hate and despise the other group. They will even seek their lives, to kill them,, all while claimng Jesus! Ought to be interesting!
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There is no use in railing. I was not railing, I was giving another aspect of what the problem with america might be.
You stated that america needs to get back to the law
Those were your points. and I countered them with a different opinion.
And you just said I was wrong..
whatever!
I showed a counterpoint.
You totally ignored my counterpoint. refused to acknowledge my counterpoint. Failed to show where i was wrong in my counterpoint. and all you can do is sit there and say I am wrong.
Again, It is YOU who proves something... You have no desire to discuss.. only to show your points, and tell everyone else they are wrong.
You stated that america needs to get back to the law
Those were your points. and I countered them with a different opinion.
And you just said I was wrong..
whatever!
I showed a counterpoint.
You totally ignored my counterpoint. refused to acknowledge my counterpoint. Failed to show where i was wrong in my counterpoint. and all you can do is sit there and say I am wrong.
Again, It is YOU who proves something... You have no desire to discuss.. only to show your points, and tell everyone else they are wrong.
E
its been that way since the begining of time
Those who sin (includes those who know it but don;t care. and those who think they do not do it because of some legalistic system of righteousness)
Those who follow Gods commands, Given power by God by working the law of faith. But understand, they are still sinners, Still unworthy, and will be until the day of their redemption..
Those who sin (includes those who know it but don;t care. and those who think they do not do it because of some legalistic system of righteousness)
Those who follow Gods commands, Given power by God by working the law of faith. But understand, they are still sinners, Still unworthy, and will be until the day of their redemption..
Dear “eternally-gratefull”— Referring to previous posts, particularly #258 and #286;
If I may, I would like to help you understand some things, as an older woman who has been around the block a time or two…or three, even. I am not usurping authority over a man by this, simply trying to help a younger person not much older than my children.
Galatians 6:1 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.
When someone posts on any of the forums and the post catches your eye, be sure to really read the entire post before making your own post. It is evident that you have a burning desire to make your own point without making sure what the person you are addressing is really saying. (There is a thread called “true humility” that would be good for you to read, and I do mean really read it. As of now, it is very short because it is a very unpopular subject.)
Just-me , in posts #258 and #262 is presenting food for thought, not saying any of us should return to being UNDER the law. So, as the scripture above says, if you want to correct just-me, do it in meekness. James says:
James 1:23-26 (KJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP]For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
[SUP]24 [/SUP]For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.
As I said in my earlier post (#286)”… no one is advocating going back to living UNDER the law, or claiming it to justify us - the point is to use it to show us how God expects us to live because man's transgression is the reason the law was given in the first place - to show us our sin. It is so ignorant for people to immediately jump to the conclusion that someone is saying we must return to keeping the whole law as given to Moses just because he/she says we should see it as a guide for our behavior toward each other and God. The law is spiritual, and by gum, it never expires!” You see, without really reading all of what another person says and going off in your own direction, especially showing, anger, disgust, irritation, or an attitude of superiority, does nothing but demean what you say. So, if you have something valid to say it is missed by readers because all they see is a confrontational attitude, with a large shot of arrogance thrown in.
Oh, and one last thing: in your post #287, I can give you names of certain churches I have been in and heard with my own ears the things mentioned, but that would amount to slander, which I prefer to avoid. I can tell you that as the women’s Sunday school teacher I was told in front of the entire class that I could not even read 1 Corinthians 5 because the pastor’s son, who was supposedly an ordained preacher in the Baptist church, was bringing his “girlfriend” to church, hugging on her, and putting his hands where they didn’t belong – in church – while he was still married to another woman. You know what the church body said? “We just have to love them.” I resigned. No one is going to tell me I can’t even read certain parts of God’s Word. Then there was the church that literally said, “Don’t teach us what we don’t already know.” Didn’t hang around there either. There are several more examples I could give you, but this is a long enough post as it is. I just wanted you to know, I am “talking out of school” as the saying goes.
Best wishes in your Christian walk.
If I may, I would like to help you understand some things, as an older woman who has been around the block a time or two…or three, even. I am not usurping authority over a man by this, simply trying to help a younger person not much older than my children.
Galatians 6:1 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.
When someone posts on any of the forums and the post catches your eye, be sure to really read the entire post before making your own post. It is evident that you have a burning desire to make your own point without making sure what the person you are addressing is really saying. (There is a thread called “true humility” that would be good for you to read, and I do mean really read it. As of now, it is very short because it is a very unpopular subject.)
Just-me , in posts #258 and #262 is presenting food for thought, not saying any of us should return to being UNDER the law. So, as the scripture above says, if you want to correct just-me, do it in meekness. James says:
James 1:23-26 (KJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP]For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
[SUP]24 [/SUP]For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.
As I said in my earlier post (#286)”… no one is advocating going back to living UNDER the law, or claiming it to justify us - the point is to use it to show us how God expects us to live because man's transgression is the reason the law was given in the first place - to show us our sin. It is so ignorant for people to immediately jump to the conclusion that someone is saying we must return to keeping the whole law as given to Moses just because he/she says we should see it as a guide for our behavior toward each other and God. The law is spiritual, and by gum, it never expires!” You see, without really reading all of what another person says and going off in your own direction, especially showing, anger, disgust, irritation, or an attitude of superiority, does nothing but demean what you say. So, if you have something valid to say it is missed by readers because all they see is a confrontational attitude, with a large shot of arrogance thrown in.
Oh, and one last thing: in your post #287, I can give you names of certain churches I have been in and heard with my own ears the things mentioned, but that would amount to slander, which I prefer to avoid. I can tell you that as the women’s Sunday school teacher I was told in front of the entire class that I could not even read 1 Corinthians 5 because the pastor’s son, who was supposedly an ordained preacher in the Baptist church, was bringing his “girlfriend” to church, hugging on her, and putting his hands where they didn’t belong – in church – while he was still married to another woman. You know what the church body said? “We just have to love them.” I resigned. No one is going to tell me I can’t even read certain parts of God’s Word. Then there was the church that literally said, “Don’t teach us what we don’t already know.” Didn’t hang around there either. There are several more examples I could give you, but this is a long enough post as it is. I just wanted you to know, I am “talking out of school” as the saying goes.
Best wishes in your Christian walk.
God never forces obedience. His people willingly submit to His Authority ( His Laws).
Satan will enforce his law.
So, if God never imposes His law, that makes God a gentleman. Thus He stands at the door of your heart and gently knocks.
Satan, hates God's law. So, I think it's safe to say that Satan won't be enforcing any of Gods 10 Commandments on Mankind.
But,, I have a feeling that Satan will impose a law that will oppose one of Gods Commandments!
Saturday the 7th day or Sunday the 1st day.
Which do you think Satan would impose on mankind?
Satan will enforce his law.
So, if God never imposes His law, that makes God a gentleman. Thus He stands at the door of your heart and gently knocks.
Satan, hates God's law. So, I think it's safe to say that Satan won't be enforcing any of Gods 10 Commandments on Mankind.
But,, I have a feeling that Satan will impose a law that will oppose one of Gods Commandments!
Saturday the 7th day or Sunday the 1st day.
Which do you think Satan would impose on mankind?