There Are Many Scriptures That Disprove The Trinity
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The Jehovah's Witness seeketh airtime.
You should really check out jimmydiggs' post on said JW. It's epic. > http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...-found-four-places-kjv-bible.html#post1297743
You should really check out jimmydiggs' post on said JW. It's epic. > http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...-found-four-places-kjv-bible.html#post1297743
Why not try interpreting Phil 2;7 and get to the point. "he took the form of a servant being made in human likeness." Therefore he was no longer in the form of God.
Those who say Jesus was in the form of God and the form of man at the same time? You are gnostics. I think the last lot were termed "Docetists" but hey, you could also be pagans because they also thought that the gods had human form.
Those who say Jesus was in the form of God and the form of man at the same time? You are gnostics. I think the last lot were termed "Docetists" but hey, you could also be pagans because they also thought that the gods had human form.
oh aren't you clever.
whatever.
John 20
27Then He said to Thomas, "Reach here with your finger, and see My hands; and reach here your hand and put it into My side; and do not be unbelieving, but believing." 28Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!" 29Jesus said to him, "Because you have seen Me, have you believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed."
John 1
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning. 3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcomea it.
14The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
whatever.
John 20
27Then He said to Thomas, "Reach here with your finger, and see My hands; and reach here your hand and put it into My side; and do not be unbelieving, but believing." 28Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!" 29Jesus said to him, "Because you have seen Me, have you believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed."
John 1
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning. 3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcomea it.
14The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
By oldhermit
In Philippians 2:6, the apostle Paul begins with the acknowledgement that Jesus is God and provides us with a revealed analysis of his redemptive function. Paul does not begin his discussion of Jesus from the vantage point of the incarnation but from that of eternity. What Paul stresses in the first part of this chapter is the example of humility that Jesus gave us in his willingness to divest himself of this form for a time on our behalf. This of course does not suggest that he ceased be God. He does not strip himself of deity. I am quite sure that we will never fully understand all that is involved in Jesus’ emptying himself of divine form and equality. All we can rely on is the language of the text. The word translated emptied means to lay aside. How do we explain how, even in the flesh, he is still God yet remains so without retaining anything that defines divine nature? Perhaps ‘to lay aside’ offers the best explanation. He laid it aside as one would a garment, then in Hebrews chapter one we will see him take it up again.
Emptying of Form: Empty is the verb that defines the action. Equal is an adjective that defines his nature. Equality is a noun that tells what was emptied out.
This is not a passive action. This is self-actuating. No one is doing this to him. He is the one who does the emptying. What he empties out of himself is both equality with God and divine nature. He must possess these qualities intrinsically in order to empty them out of himself..
In order for Jesus to fulfill his redemptive mission, he must assume a fleshly posture. We can find at least four reasons for this in scripture. 1) Divine essence cannot die. As man he will die. 2) The requirements of the Law of Moses required a sacrifice of flesh and blood. Divine essence is not made of flesh and blood. 3) His heritage must come from a specific fleshly linage. As God, he has no linage. 4) The demands of the Law were imposed upon man and it was required that man fulfill them. The Law required not only that man fulfill its demands but that only a man of the seed of Abraham to whom the Law was given. Thus, a Gentile could never have satisfied the Law, Romans 1:1-5.
Fulfilling the function of a sacrifice required that he assume the form of a sacrifice. In this metamorphosis, he poured out of himself every expression of deity. We do not know how he does this, only that this text shows us that he did. Divine essence is now submitted to limitations. As God, these characteristics of essence are, by their very nature, without boundaries or limitations, but as man, he will be subject to all of the same sets of determined relations that limit all men. Divine character is now submitted to vulnerability. As God, he cannot be tempted, but as man, he yields his divine character to the onslaught of Satan. He becomes the second Adam. He exposes his own moral integrity to the same temptations that are common to all men, Hebrews 2:18, 4:15, and 5:2. Yet, unlike Adam, he maintains his integrity all the way to the cross, Hebrews 4:15 and 2:9. He succeeds where Adam failed. He simply never sinned.
Emptying of Equality:
The word translated equality is nominative and accusative plural neuter suggesting equality in quantity or quality, Thayer's p 307. This is the same language used by Jesus in Matthew 20:12. Here, Jesus relates the parable of the workers in the vineyard. The accusation by those who had labored all day was that the Master was unjust because in giving equal wages to those who had worked fewer hours than they had worked he had granted them equal status. Paul now uses this same word to express the nature of Jesus' divine status. He did not gain his divine equality by an act of seizure or robbery. This equality is his by right of divine essence.
The Form of a Servant:
Taking the form of a servant is an exchange of nature. He exchanged the essence of God for the essence of man. Spirit clothes itself with flesh, John 1:1-2, Hebrews 2:14 and 10:5-10. This is much more than just a transformation from spirit to flesh. Every attribute that defined him as God will either be submitted to limitations or subjected to vulnerability. Omnipotence yields itself to dependency. The all-sufficient one now becomes fully dependent, Isaiah 12, John 5:30 and Matthew 4:1-10. He became subject to all of the same sets of determined relations that are part of all human existence. Omniscience gives way to revelation. He must learn God’s will as a man and submit to it, Hebrews 10:7, Deuteronomy 18:18-19, John 12:49-50 and 17-4. Omnipresence confines itself to the limitations of time and space. His Eternal nature is surrendered for mortality - he became subject to death. The transcendent One became an equal among his fleshly brethren, Hebrews 2:17. The unified One became the cursed of God, Mark 15:34, Galatians 3:13 and 2Corinthians 5:21. The unchanging One became subject to change. He not only changes form but his fleshly form will also be subject to all of the changes of natural biological processes.
In keeping with the posture of a servant / slave, Paul says that he did nothing through selfishness; that he did not seek his own glory but regarded others as more important than himself. He placed the needs of others above his own. He emptied himself. The servant reserves nothing of himself. He stands stripped of all personal will. All has become completely subjected. This is total surrender of control. Now, he is in the likeness of man. In the beginning, God, this God, created man in his own image, according to his own likeness. Now, this same God steps out of eternity into time to be made in the image of his creation - man. The Creator becomes the creature. The Lord of all becomes the servant of all. The Governor of the universe becomes subordinate to another and all of this by his own will.
A Cloak of Humility, Philippians 2:8:
Humility is not foreign to the character of man but rather intrinsic to it. Humility is demonstrated by obedience that characterized the life and ministry of the Lord. He "became" obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross." ‘Became’ suggests a change of status. Before assuming the posture of a man, he is not subject to deity as a subordinate creature or even as a lesser member of the triadic unity. This is a process of character development as a man, Matthew 26:52-54. He must learn obedience to the will of God as a man, completely subject to the will of the Father, Hebrews 5:8-9. He did not allow his status as Son of God to exempt him from the obligation of obedience. What then did he learn about obedience? There are at least eight things that scripture reveals about this learning process.
1. He learned its duty - Even though he was a son - This is the duty of sonship.
2. He learned its necessity - The cup cannot pass unless he drinks it.
3. He learned its demand - All that I am and all that I have – This is total consecration.
4. He learned its cost - For a time, it cost him even heaven itself. In the end, even his human life.
5. He learned its integrity - He kept the law of God all the way to the cross.
6. He learned its honor - He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey.
7. He learned its reward - He was highly exalted and given a name that is above every name. Because he learned all these things, he is now able to lay hold of the reward of obedience.
8. "Even death on the cross." This is the last, greatest act of humility. It is the culmination of everything in the purpose of God to redeem man back to himself. This is the last full measure of devotion for loves sake. He does not even consider equality with man a thing to hold on to. He even pours himself out to become the cursed of the cursed, Galatians 3:13 and Deuteronomy 21:23.
Enthroned and Glorified, Philippians 2:9-11
A. "Therefore" (because he humbled himself) God highly exalted him, 9.
B. "Given a name that is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee shall bow," 9-10 and Romans 14:11 - "Every knee shall bow and confess that Jesus is Lord / Jehovah," Isaiah 45:23.
In Philippians 2:6, the apostle Paul begins with the acknowledgement that Jesus is God and provides us with a revealed analysis of his redemptive function. Paul does not begin his discussion of Jesus from the vantage point of the incarnation but from that of eternity. What Paul stresses in the first part of this chapter is the example of humility that Jesus gave us in his willingness to divest himself of this form for a time on our behalf. This of course does not suggest that he ceased be God. He does not strip himself of deity. I am quite sure that we will never fully understand all that is involved in Jesus’ emptying himself of divine form and equality. All we can rely on is the language of the text. The word translated emptied means to lay aside. How do we explain how, even in the flesh, he is still God yet remains so without retaining anything that defines divine nature? Perhaps ‘to lay aside’ offers the best explanation. He laid it aside as one would a garment, then in Hebrews chapter one we will see him take it up again.
Emptying of Form: Empty is the verb that defines the action. Equal is an adjective that defines his nature. Equality is a noun that tells what was emptied out.
This is not a passive action. This is self-actuating. No one is doing this to him. He is the one who does the emptying. What he empties out of himself is both equality with God and divine nature. He must possess these qualities intrinsically in order to empty them out of himself..
In order for Jesus to fulfill his redemptive mission, he must assume a fleshly posture. We can find at least four reasons for this in scripture. 1) Divine essence cannot die. As man he will die. 2) The requirements of the Law of Moses required a sacrifice of flesh and blood. Divine essence is not made of flesh and blood. 3) His heritage must come from a specific fleshly linage. As God, he has no linage. 4) The demands of the Law were imposed upon man and it was required that man fulfill them. The Law required not only that man fulfill its demands but that only a man of the seed of Abraham to whom the Law was given. Thus, a Gentile could never have satisfied the Law, Romans 1:1-5.
Fulfilling the function of a sacrifice required that he assume the form of a sacrifice. In this metamorphosis, he poured out of himself every expression of deity. We do not know how he does this, only that this text shows us that he did. Divine essence is now submitted to limitations. As God, these characteristics of essence are, by their very nature, without boundaries or limitations, but as man, he will be subject to all of the same sets of determined relations that limit all men. Divine character is now submitted to vulnerability. As God, he cannot be tempted, but as man, he yields his divine character to the onslaught of Satan. He becomes the second Adam. He exposes his own moral integrity to the same temptations that are common to all men, Hebrews 2:18, 4:15, and 5:2. Yet, unlike Adam, he maintains his integrity all the way to the cross, Hebrews 4:15 and 2:9. He succeeds where Adam failed. He simply never sinned.
Emptying of Equality:
The word translated equality is nominative and accusative plural neuter suggesting equality in quantity or quality, Thayer's p 307. This is the same language used by Jesus in Matthew 20:12. Here, Jesus relates the parable of the workers in the vineyard. The accusation by those who had labored all day was that the Master was unjust because in giving equal wages to those who had worked fewer hours than they had worked he had granted them equal status. Paul now uses this same word to express the nature of Jesus' divine status. He did not gain his divine equality by an act of seizure or robbery. This equality is his by right of divine essence.
The Form of a Servant:
Taking the form of a servant is an exchange of nature. He exchanged the essence of God for the essence of man. Spirit clothes itself with flesh, John 1:1-2, Hebrews 2:14 and 10:5-10. This is much more than just a transformation from spirit to flesh. Every attribute that defined him as God will either be submitted to limitations or subjected to vulnerability. Omnipotence yields itself to dependency. The all-sufficient one now becomes fully dependent, Isaiah 12, John 5:30 and Matthew 4:1-10. He became subject to all of the same sets of determined relations that are part of all human existence. Omniscience gives way to revelation. He must learn God’s will as a man and submit to it, Hebrews 10:7, Deuteronomy 18:18-19, John 12:49-50 and 17-4. Omnipresence confines itself to the limitations of time and space. His Eternal nature is surrendered for mortality - he became subject to death. The transcendent One became an equal among his fleshly brethren, Hebrews 2:17. The unified One became the cursed of God, Mark 15:34, Galatians 3:13 and 2Corinthians 5:21. The unchanging One became subject to change. He not only changes form but his fleshly form will also be subject to all of the changes of natural biological processes.
In keeping with the posture of a servant / slave, Paul says that he did nothing through selfishness; that he did not seek his own glory but regarded others as more important than himself. He placed the needs of others above his own. He emptied himself. The servant reserves nothing of himself. He stands stripped of all personal will. All has become completely subjected. This is total surrender of control. Now, he is in the likeness of man. In the beginning, God, this God, created man in his own image, according to his own likeness. Now, this same God steps out of eternity into time to be made in the image of his creation - man. The Creator becomes the creature. The Lord of all becomes the servant of all. The Governor of the universe becomes subordinate to another and all of this by his own will.
A Cloak of Humility, Philippians 2:8:
Humility is not foreign to the character of man but rather intrinsic to it. Humility is demonstrated by obedience that characterized the life and ministry of the Lord. He "became" obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross." ‘Became’ suggests a change of status. Before assuming the posture of a man, he is not subject to deity as a subordinate creature or even as a lesser member of the triadic unity. This is a process of character development as a man, Matthew 26:52-54. He must learn obedience to the will of God as a man, completely subject to the will of the Father, Hebrews 5:8-9. He did not allow his status as Son of God to exempt him from the obligation of obedience. What then did he learn about obedience? There are at least eight things that scripture reveals about this learning process.
1. He learned its duty - Even though he was a son - This is the duty of sonship.
2. He learned its necessity - The cup cannot pass unless he drinks it.
3. He learned its demand - All that I am and all that I have – This is total consecration.
4. He learned its cost - For a time, it cost him even heaven itself. In the end, even his human life.
5. He learned its integrity - He kept the law of God all the way to the cross.
6. He learned its honor - He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey.
7. He learned its reward - He was highly exalted and given a name that is above every name. Because he learned all these things, he is now able to lay hold of the reward of obedience.
8. "Even death on the cross." This is the last, greatest act of humility. It is the culmination of everything in the purpose of God to redeem man back to himself. This is the last full measure of devotion for loves sake. He does not even consider equality with man a thing to hold on to. He even pours himself out to become the cursed of the cursed, Galatians 3:13 and Deuteronomy 21:23.
Enthroned and Glorified, Philippians 2:9-11
A. "Therefore" (because he humbled himself) God highly exalted him, 9.
B. "Given a name that is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee shall bow," 9-10 and Romans 14:11 - "Every knee shall bow and confess that Jesus is Lord / Jehovah," Isaiah 45:23.
The Good News is that ONE DAY everyone will know all about God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit......everyone will have perfect understanding of this we call the Holy Trinity.......Three Persons in One in Perfect Harmony.
Yup, one day...........now, you ain't gonna be here on this earth when understanding comes.........SO you might wanna be careful how you talk about this 'cause when Perfect Understanding comes, well, it will be too late to say........."Oops, sorry......"
Yup, one day...........now, you ain't gonna be here on this earth when understanding comes.........SO you might wanna be careful how you talk about this 'cause when Perfect Understanding comes, well, it will be too late to say........."Oops, sorry......"
John 8:58-59 (HCSB)
[SUP]58 [/SUP] Jesus said to them, “I assure you: Before Abraham was, I am.”
[SUP]59 [/SUP] At that, they picked up stones to throw at Him. But Jesus was hidden and went out of the temple complex.
Now Jews understood that HE just called himself GOD, why don't you?
Philippians 2:5-10 (HCSB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Make your own attitude that of Christ Jesus,
[SUP]6 [/SUP] who, existing in the form of God, did not consider equality with God as something to be used for His own advantage.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] Instead He emptied Himself by assuming the form of a slave, taking on the likeness of men. And when He had come as a man in His external form,
[SUP]8 [/SUP] He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death— even to death on a cross.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] For this reason God highly exalted Him and gave Him the name that is above every name,
[SUP]10 [/SUP] so that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow— of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth—
I did post the Commentary by the Dallas Theological Seminary's Staff on that portion of Scripture in my post #465 above. But perhaps this would help you understand. He did not change Himself from Deity to become a man, HE set aside temporarily His positional rights as DEITY, until HIS resurrection, THEN HE TOOK BACK HIS GLORY AS DEITY.
Psalm 8:5-6 (NKJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] For You have made him a little lower than the angels, And You have crowned him with glory and honor.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] You have made him to have dominion over the works of Your hands; You have put all things under his feet,
Hebrews 2:7-9 (HCSB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] You made him lower than the angels for a short time; You crowned him with glory and honor
[SUP]8 [/SUP] and subjected everything under his feet. For in subjecting everything to him, He left nothing that is not subject to him. As it is, we do not yet see everything subjected to him.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] But we do see Jesus—made lower than the angels for a short time so that by God’s grace He might taste death for everyone—crowned with glory and honor because of His suffering in death.
One last JEWEL that I need to share with you, in Phil. 2:10 above, in the exact same context as your question and challenge, it says: "at the name of Jesus every knee will bow"
Isaiah 45:22-23 (HCSB)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] Turn to Me and be saved, all the ends of the earth. For I am God, and there is no other.
[SUP]23 [/SUP] By Myself I have sworn; Truth has gone from My mouth, a word that will not be revoked: Every knee will bow to Me, every tongue will swear allegiance.
ONLY when the Doctrine of the Holy Trinity is seen as TRUTH, do you not create a contradiction in interpretation.
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t t t
Amen brother, VERY GOOD POST. Do you know how VERY FEW Christians I have found in my lifetime, who truly understand that GOD's Omnipresence involves both time and space. He is truly Omnipresent in all time at the same time, hence He truly is thee I AM. HE is not a being traveling through time, HE is the Creator of time as we know it.
Amen brother, VERY GOOD POST. Do you know how VERY FEW Christians I have found in my lifetime, who truly understand that GOD's Omnipresence involves both time and space. He is truly Omnipresent in all time at the same time, hence He truly is thee I AM. HE is not a being traveling through time, HE is the Creator of time as we know it.