There Are Many Scriptures That Disprove The Trinity
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T
Re: Study up...
If we are Co-heirs with christ and christ is god, then that means we can therefore become part of God. That doesn't fit! We are God's children, not God. There's the issue.
Also here's my explination/issue (or I should say my faith's as I did not write this, I do agree with is though) with the Philippians verses.
Philippians 2:6, 7
"Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men."
Problem:
Great stress is placed on "morphe" (the Greek word for form) by trinitarians and others like the J.W.'s who teach that Christ had a pre-human existence. It is argued that "in the form of God" means that Christ had the nature of God before his birth, and it was this which he sacrificed in coming to the earth to live as a human.
Solution:
If we are Co-heirs with christ and christ is god, then that means we can therefore become part of God. That doesn't fit! We are God's children, not God. There's the issue.
Also here's my explination/issue (or I should say my faith's as I did not write this, I do agree with is though) with the Philippians verses.
Philippians 2:6, 7
- If "in the form of God" means the very nature of God, then Christ could not have been "Very God" while on earth, as trinitarians assert, since this is what he is said to have sacrificed and left behind in coming to the earth.
- The Greek word "morphe" (translated "form") does not refer to "essential nature" as the trinitarian cause requires. This is proven by the following:
- "Eidos", not "morphe" is the Greek word which conveys the idea of "essential nature". As Liddell and Scott point out in their lexicon, "morphe" means form, shape, fine, beautiful form or shape, figure, fashion, appearance, outward form or semblance. It is opposed to "eidos" which means "true form".
- In the context of this passage, it is stated that Christ "took upon him the form of a servant" (vs. 7). But what is the form of a servant (Grk. "doulos", a slave)? The "essential nature" of a slave is the same as that of any other human being. The form, therefore, must refer to the semblance or demeanour of a slave as the distinguishing characteristic.
- "Morphe" occurs in only one other place in the N.T. - Mark 16:12, and here it clearly does not mean "essential nature". Jesus appeared "in another form", but this could not refer to a change of his essential nature since the reason why he appeared to be in another form was because the disciples' "eyes were holden". (Luke 24:16 cf. vs. 31). Not even a trinitarian or a J.W. would be prepared to say that Christ's essential nature was changed after his resurrection and glorification.
- "Eidos", not "morphe" is the Greek word which conveys the idea of "essential nature". As Liddell and Scott point out in their lexicon, "morphe" means form, shape, fine, beautiful form or shape, figure, fashion, appearance, outward form or semblance. It is opposed to "eidos" which means "true form".
- How was Christ in the form of God? He had the semblance and demeanour of the Father mentally and morally. His character was the express image of his Father's person. (Heb. 1:3).
- Sometimes trinitarians stress that Christ was originally in the form of God - i.e., "being" in the form of God is taken to mean that he was in fact "Very God" before his "incarnation". The Greek verb "huparchon" refutes this position since it is in the imperfect tense which expresses action yet, or still in course of performance. Time signified by an imperfect tense is of a continual, habitual, repeated action, so that "beingin the form of God" means "being, and continuing to be in the form of God". Christ never ceased to be in the form of God since in semblance and demeanour from his birth he habitually exemplified his Father's character. Note the use of "huparchon" in the following passages:
- Acts 2:30 - "Therefore being a prophet does not mean "being originally before birth a prophet", but rather a prophet and continuing to be such.
- 1 Cor. 11:7 - "Forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God" does not mean "being originally before he was born the image and glory of God", but rather being the image of God and continuing to be.
- Gal. 2:14 - "If thou being a Jew" does not mean "being originally before his birth as a Jew", but rather if you from the start and continuing to be a Jew.
- Acts 2:30 - "Therefore being a prophet does not mean "being originally before birth a prophet", but rather a prophet and continuing to be such.
- "Thought it not robbery to be equal with God" is generally acknowledged to be a poor translation. The R.S.V. reads as follows: "He did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped." Unlike Eve who grasped after the fruit which was to be desired to make one like God (the "elohim") to know good and evil, Jesus refused to take the kingdoms of the world without the crucifixion of the flesh and the declaration of the righteousness of his Father. In the Garden of Gethsemane he subjected his will to his Father's, not arrogating to himself prerogatives that rightly belonged to his Father. (Matt. 26:39).
- How did Christ take the form of a servant (slave)? Two passages supply the answer:
- "If I then, your Lord and Master, have washed your feet; ye also ought to wash one another's feet." (John 13:14).
- "Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered. And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him." (Hebrews 5:8, 9).
- "If I then, your Lord and Master, have washed your feet; ye also ought to wash one another's feet." (John 13:14).
- "He humbled himself"; "he emptied himself" R.S.V. (vs. 8), refers to Christ's deliberate choice to submit his will to that of his Father. Christ was worshipped (Matt. 8:2; 9:18), performed the works of God (John 10:37-38), and forgave sins (Matthew 9:2), but he never arrogated to himself authority which had not been delegated to him by the Father. In so doing his example was a powerful lesson in humility to the Philippians. But if Christ "being originally, before his birth, while he was in heaven in the form (essential nature) of God thought at his birth, when he descended into the womb, not to be equal with God, but left the form of God",[SUP]1[/SUP] where is humility demonstrated?
K
Re: Study up...
We do seen instances were all the persons of the Trinity are shown to us at one time as well.
Matthew 3:
[SUP]6 [/SUP]As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting on him. [SUP]17 [/SUP]And a voice from heaven said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.”
[h=1]Matthew 17 (New International Version)[/h]
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Add parallel[h=3]Matthew 17[/h]New International Version (NIV)
[h=3]The Transfiguration[/h]17 After six days Jesus took with him Peter, James and John the brother of James, and led them up a high mountain by themselves. [SUP]2 [/SUP]There he was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as the light. [SUP]3 [/SUP]Just then there appeared before them Moses and Elijah, talking with Jesus.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Peter said to Jesus, “Lord, it is good for us to be here. If you wish, I will put up three shelters—one for you, one for Moses and one for Elijah.”
[SUP]5 [/SUP]While he was still speaking, a bright cloud covered them, and a voice from the cloud said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased. Listen to him!”
[SUP]6 [/SUP]When the disciples heard this, they fell facedown to the ground, terrified. [SUP]7 [/SUP]But Jesus came and touched them. “Get up,” he said. “Don’t be afraid.” [SUP]8 [/SUP]When they looked up, they saw no one except Jesus.
We do seen instances were all the persons of the Trinity are shown to us at one time as well.
Matthew 3:
[SUP]6 [/SUP]As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting on him. [SUP]17 [/SUP]And a voice from heaven said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.”
[h=1]Matthew 17 (New International Version)[/h]
Page Options
Share on facebook Share on twitter Share on email
Show resources
Add parallel[h=3]Matthew 17[/h]New International Version (NIV)
[h=3]The Transfiguration[/h]17 After six days Jesus took with him Peter, James and John the brother of James, and led them up a high mountain by themselves. [SUP]2 [/SUP]There he was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as the light. [SUP]3 [/SUP]Just then there appeared before them Moses and Elijah, talking with Jesus.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Peter said to Jesus, “Lord, it is good for us to be here. If you wish, I will put up three shelters—one for you, one for Moses and one for Elijah.”
[SUP]5 [/SUP]While he was still speaking, a bright cloud covered them, and a voice from the cloud said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased. Listen to him!”
[SUP]6 [/SUP]When the disciples heard this, they fell facedown to the ground, terrified. [SUP]7 [/SUP]But Jesus came and touched them. “Get up,” he said. “Don’t be afraid.” [SUP]8 [/SUP]When they looked up, they saw no one except Jesus.
K
Re: Study up...
May I ask why are you so hostile to this idea? I'd say more humility than any of us can ever know was demonstrated. The Lord of Creation became a baby! And lived as we do, and walked among us.... and died for our sins.
If we are Co-heirs with christ and christ is god, then that means we can therefore become part of God. That doesn't fit! We are God's children, not God. There's the issue.
Also here's my explination/issue (or I should say my faith's as I did not write this, I do agree with is though) with the Philippians verses.
Philippians 2:6, 7
"Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men."
Problem:
Great stress is placed on "morphe" (the Greek word for form) by trinitarians and others like the J.W.'s who teach that Christ had a pre-human existence. It is argued that "in the form of God" means that Christ had the nature of God before his birth, and it was this which he sacrificed in coming to the earth to live as a human.
Solution:
Also here's my explination/issue (or I should say my faith's as I did not write this, I do agree with is though) with the Philippians verses.
Philippians 2:6, 7
- If "in the form of God" means the very nature of God, then Christ could not have been "Very God" while on earth, as trinitarians assert, since this is what he is said to have sacrificed and left behind in coming to the earth.
- The Greek word "morphe" (translated "form") does not refer to "essential nature" as the trinitarian cause requires. This is proven by the following:
- "Eidos", not "morphe" is the Greek word which conveys the idea of "essential nature". As Liddell and Scott point out in their lexicon, "morphe" means form, shape, fine, beautiful form or shape, figure, fashion, appearance, outward form or semblance. It is opposed to "eidos" which means "true form".
- In the context of this passage, it is stated that Christ "took upon him the form of a servant" (vs. 7). But what is the form of a servant (Grk. "doulos", a slave)? The "essential nature" of a slave is the same as that of any other human being. The form, therefore, must refer to the semblance or demeanour of a slave as the distinguishing characteristic.
- "Morphe" occurs in only one other place in the N.T. - Mark 16:12, and here it clearly does not mean "essential nature". Jesus appeared "in another form", but this could not refer to a change of his essential nature since the reason why he appeared to be in another form was because the disciples' "eyes were holden". (Luke 24:16 cf. vs. 31). Not even a trinitarian or a J.W. would be prepared to say that Christ's essential nature was changed after his resurrection and glorification.
- "Eidos", not "morphe" is the Greek word which conveys the idea of "essential nature". As Liddell and Scott point out in their lexicon, "morphe" means form, shape, fine, beautiful form or shape, figure, fashion, appearance, outward form or semblance. It is opposed to "eidos" which means "true form".
- How was Christ in the form of God? He had the semblance and demeanour of the Father mentally and morally. His character was the express image of his Father's person. (Heb. 1:3).
- Sometimes trinitarians stress that Christ was originally in the form of God - i.e., "being" in the form of God is taken to mean that he was in fact "Very God" before his "incarnation". The Greek verb "huparchon" refutes this position since it is in the imperfect tense which expresses action yet, or still in course of performance. Time signified by an imperfect tense is of a continual, habitual, repeated action, so that "beingin the form of God" means "being, and continuing to be in the form of God". Christ never ceased to be in the form of God since in semblance and demeanour from his birth he habitually exemplified his Father's character. Note the use of "huparchon" in the following passages:
- Acts 2:30 - "Therefore being a prophet does not mean "being originally before birth a prophet", but rather a prophet and continuing to be such.
- 1 Cor. 11:7 - "Forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God" does not mean "being originally before he was born the image and glory of God", but rather being the image of God and continuing to be.
- Gal. 2:14 - "If thou being a Jew" does not mean "being originally before his birth as a Jew", but rather if you from the start and continuing to be a Jew.
- Acts 2:30 - "Therefore being a prophet does not mean "being originally before birth a prophet", but rather a prophet and continuing to be such.
- "Thought it not robbery to be equal with God" is generally acknowledged to be a poor translation. The R.S.V. reads as follows: "He did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped." Unlike Eve who grasped after the fruit which was to be desired to make one like God (the "elohim") to know good and evil, Jesus refused to take the kingdoms of the world without the crucifixion of the flesh and the declaration of the righteousness of his Father. In the Garden of Gethsemane he subjected his will to his Father's, not arrogating to himself prerogatives that rightly belonged to his Father. (Matt. 26:39).
- How did Christ take the form of a servant (slave)? Two passages supply the answer:
- "If I then, your Lord and Master, have washed your feet; ye also ought to wash one another's feet." (John 13:14).
- "Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered. And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him." (Hebrews 5:8, 9).
- "If I then, your Lord and Master, have washed your feet; ye also ought to wash one another's feet." (John 13:14).
- "He humbled himself"; "he emptied himself" R.S.V. (vs. 8), refers to Christ's deliberate choice to submit his will to that of his Father. Christ was worshipped (Matt. 8:2; 9:18), performed the works of God (John 10:37-38), and forgave sins (Matthew 9:2), but he never arrogated to himself authority which had not been delegated to him by the Father. In so doing his example was a powerful lesson in humility to the Philippians. But if Christ "being originally, before his birth, while he was in heaven in the form (essential nature) of God thought at his birth, when he descended into the womb, not to be equal with God, but left the form of God",[SUP]1[/SUP] where is humility demonstrated?
Re: Trinity-deniers are a joke...
No, he is kicking against the goads, without even having his sandals on.
Acts 26:14-15 (NKJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] And when we all had fallen to the ground, I heard a voice speaking to me and saying in the Hebrew language, 'Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me? It is hard for you to kick against the goads.'
[SUP]15 [/SUP] So I said, 'Who are You, Lord?' And He said, "I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting."
1 Samuel 13:21 (KJV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] Yet they had a file for the mattocks, and for the coulters, and for the forks, and for the axes, and to sharpen the goads.
THESE SHARP STICKS are also known as Cattle Prods.
And most herdsman or men using cattle to plow carried them.
However, because it refers to a stick with a very sharp point,
one has to wonder if goads was also a nickname for
the many very thorny wild bushes along any trail or path in Israel?
You certainly would not want to kick into these goads wearing sandals.
No, he is kicking against the goads, without even having his sandals on.
Acts 26:14-15 (NKJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] And when we all had fallen to the ground, I heard a voice speaking to me and saying in the Hebrew language, 'Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me? It is hard for you to kick against the goads.'
[SUP]15 [/SUP] So I said, 'Who are You, Lord?' And He said, "I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting."
1 Samuel 13:21 (KJV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] Yet they had a file for the mattocks, and for the coulters, and for the forks, and for the axes, and to sharpen the goads.
THESE SHARP STICKS are also known as Cattle Prods.
And most herdsman or men using cattle to plow carried them.
However, because it refers to a stick with a very sharp point,
one has to wonder if goads was also a nickname for
the many very thorny wild bushes along any trail or path in Israel?
You certainly would not want to kick into these goads wearing sandals.
T
Re: Study up...
I'm not hostile to the idea in that I don't think that it is okay. If I found scripture saying it, I'd believe it. I still don't see how the trinity can be real, without believing we can join this trinity based off John 17. That was the chapter that reallly convinced me. Others made me doubt, but that was the one that really hit it. (I originally agreed with the trinity but because that was how I was raised not based off my own study).
I read that cite, and it was cool, but like it didn't say anything that hasn't been told to me on here. I will admit I didn't fully understand the trinity as a concept prior to being on here and thank you Browman for that, but I still disagree with it based on the facts that you have to add in "the father" to so many verses for the trinity to make sense. Plus John 17. What we believe has to fit with the whole of scripture, not just parts, and the trinity is very problematic with John 17. At this point it's not so much that I need new scripture to tell me the trinity is real, I have an explanation for all of that in a way that the trinity isn't real (except I still need to know about Malek being Hebrew or not because I can't find it I'm my electronic lexicon so I do need to see that one before I can say EVERY verse). What I need are explanations on How we can be one in christ the same way Chist is one with God. If Christ + God + Spirt= God and we are the same as the first two then we can = God, which the bible does not support. Also how many times trinitarians will add "the father" to scripture so it works. We can't assume it means the father if it doesn't say so. Until I get explanations that prove the trinity works in EVERY verse in the bible, I will not believe it.
I'm not hostile to the idea in that I don't think that it is okay. If I found scripture saying it, I'd believe it. I still don't see how the trinity can be real, without believing we can join this trinity based off John 17. That was the chapter that reallly convinced me. Others made me doubt, but that was the one that really hit it. (I originally agreed with the trinity but because that was how I was raised not based off my own study).
I read that cite, and it was cool, but like it didn't say anything that hasn't been told to me on here. I will admit I didn't fully understand the trinity as a concept prior to being on here and thank you Browman for that, but I still disagree with it based on the facts that you have to add in "the father" to so many verses for the trinity to make sense. Plus John 17. What we believe has to fit with the whole of scripture, not just parts, and the trinity is very problematic with John 17. At this point it's not so much that I need new scripture to tell me the trinity is real, I have an explanation for all of that in a way that the trinity isn't real (except I still need to know about Malek being Hebrew or not because I can't find it I'm my electronic lexicon so I do need to see that one before I can say EVERY verse). What I need are explanations on How we can be one in christ the same way Chist is one with God. If Christ + God + Spirt= God and we are the same as the first two then we can = God, which the bible does not support. Also how many times trinitarians will add "the father" to scripture so it works. We can't assume it means the father if it doesn't say so. Until I get explanations that prove the trinity works in EVERY verse in the bible, I will not believe it.
T
Re: Trinity-deniers are a joke...
Great argument. "You're wrong because you are wrong" is basically what you just said.
No, he is kicking against the goads, without even having his sandals on.
Acts 26:14-15 (NKJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] And when we all had fallen to the ground, I heard a voice speaking to me and saying in the Hebrew language, 'Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me? It is hard for you to kick against the goads.'
[SUP]15 [/SUP] So I said, 'Who are You, Lord?' And He said, "I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting."
1 Samuel 13:21 (KJV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] Yet they had a file for the mattocks, and for the coulters, and for the forks, and for the axes, and to sharpen the goads.
THESE SHARP STICKS are also known as Cattle Prods.
And most herdsman or men using cattle to plow carried them.
However, because it refers to a stick with a very sharp point,
one has to wonder if goads was also a nickname for
the many very thorny wild bushes along any trail or path in Israel?
You certainly would not want to kick into these goads wearing sandals.
Acts 26:14-15 (NKJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] And when we all had fallen to the ground, I heard a voice speaking to me and saying in the Hebrew language, 'Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me? It is hard for you to kick against the goads.'
[SUP]15 [/SUP] So I said, 'Who are You, Lord?' And He said, "I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting."
1 Samuel 13:21 (KJV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] Yet they had a file for the mattocks, and for the coulters, and for the forks, and for the axes, and to sharpen the goads.
THESE SHARP STICKS are also known as Cattle Prods.
And most herdsman or men using cattle to plow carried them.
However, because it refers to a stick with a very sharp point,
one has to wonder if goads was also a nickname for
the many very thorny wild bushes along any trail or path in Israel?
You certainly would not want to kick into these goads wearing sandals.
Re: Study up...
Yes, it does.
Even the authors of the Koran knew this...
Then you don't understand the Trinity.
1 Peter 3.18
Because even Christ once suffered concerning sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God; indeed being put to death in flesh, but made alive in Spirit;
Where?
No one can see God the Father and physically live.
Show us...
Show us...
Yes, it does.
Even the authors of the Koran knew this...
Then you don't understand the Trinity.
1 Peter 3.18
Because even Christ once suffered concerning sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God; indeed being put to death in flesh, but made alive in Spirit;
Where?
No one can see God the Father and physically live.
Show us...
Show us...
T
Actually it does make sense, if you can't understand that interpretation it is because of your dogmatic ways.
Also the lexicon I have does not have Malek in the hebrew. (Using Blue Letter Bible, again may be user error)
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]This verse states that Jesus wants us to be one in both Jesus and God the same way that they are one in each other. If trinity is a true doctrine, it wants us to join the trinity. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]I wish I could show you the chart, but I do not have it, he does. I will try to get it at some point because it is really interesting. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]When John say's no one can see God it doesn't say "the father" though. You assume that is what it is saying, but it just says God, and by your definition God = all three. Jesus was seen. That's where.
Jesus still died for 3 days. Although the end result was everlasting life, he was dead for 3 days. God can not die, but he did.
[/FONT]
Also the lexicon I have does not have Malek in the hebrew. (Using Blue Letter Bible, again may be user error)
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]This verse states that Jesus wants us to be one in both Jesus and God the same way that they are one in each other. If trinity is a true doctrine, it wants us to join the trinity. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]I wish I could show you the chart, but I do not have it, he does. I will try to get it at some point because it is really interesting. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]When John say's no one can see God it doesn't say "the father" though. You assume that is what it is saying, but it just says God, and by your definition God = all three. Jesus was seen. That's where.
Jesus still died for 3 days. Although the end result was everlasting life, he was dead for 3 days. God can not die, but he did.
[/FONT]
Then provide your exegesis.
Time to upgrade...
Read the context...
I and the Father are One! Then again the Jews took up stones, that they might stone Him. Jesus answered them, I showed you many good works from My Father. For which work of them do you stone Me? The Jews answered Him, saying, We do not stone You concerning a good work, but concerning blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself God. (John 10.30 – 33)
His flesh did....I already showed you this in scripture...
Time to upgrade...
Read the context...
I and the Father are One! Then again the Jews took up stones, that they might stone Him. Jesus answered them, I showed you many good works from My Father. For which work of them do you stone Me? The Jews answered Him, saying, We do not stone You concerning a good work, but concerning blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself God. (John 10.30 – 33)
His flesh did....I already showed you this in scripture...
Re: Trinity-deniers are a joke...
Sounds like what we in the Bible Belt were raised on.
GOD said it.
I believe it.
And that is good enough for me.
If someone wants to reject the Truth, after I have presented it; that is their choice and their problem.
But they remain accountable for the Truth. Witnessing is not a calling to outwit those who think they are wise.
Genesis 1:1 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Colossians 1:16-18 (HCSB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] For everything was created by Him, in heaven and on earth, the visible and the invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities— all things have been created through Him and for Him.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] He is before all things, and by Him all things hold together.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] He is also the head of the body, the church; He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He might come to have first place in everything.
Romans 1:20 (HCSB)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] For His invisible attributes, that is, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen since the creation of the world, being understood through what He has made. As a result, people are without excuse.
1 Corinthians 1:27 (KJV)
[SUP]27 [/SUP] But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
1 Corinthians 1:25 (ASV)
[SUP]25 [/SUP] Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
Sounds like what we in the Bible Belt were raised on.
GOD said it.
I believe it.
And that is good enough for me.
If someone wants to reject the Truth, after I have presented it; that is their choice and their problem.
But they remain accountable for the Truth. Witnessing is not a calling to outwit those who think they are wise.
Genesis 1:1 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Colossians 1:16-18 (HCSB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] For everything was created by Him, in heaven and on earth, the visible and the invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities— all things have been created through Him and for Him.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] He is before all things, and by Him all things hold together.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] He is also the head of the body, the church; He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He might come to have first place in everything.
Romans 1:20 (HCSB)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] For His invisible attributes, that is, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen since the creation of the world, being understood through what He has made. As a result, people are without excuse.
1 Corinthians 1:27 (KJV)
[SUP]27 [/SUP] But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
1 Corinthians 1:25 (ASV)
[SUP]25 [/SUP] Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
T
I'm not talking about John 10, I'm talking about John 17. If Jesus and God are one and we are to be one like them then we are to join the trinity. I look at John 10 that it is meaning one in will and intent not in entity. Not because that is just how I feel but because John 17 doesn't fit if the trinity is real. It's the idea of a belief having to fit all of scripture, so if the trinity doesn't fit John 17 WHICH YOU STILL HAVE NOT EXPLAINED then it does not exist.