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Romans 11:15-26
15For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
16For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
17And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
18Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
20Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.
24For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
25For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
15For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
16For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
17And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
18Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
20Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.
24For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
25For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Doesn't seem to be what Jesus says.
John 6: 37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out
If you don't mind my asking, which one? I'm considering expanding my "operations" into a third board.
As long as he's not a hyper I'm glad to not be the only one on these forums.
Could you explain how that verse contradicts what he says? I don't really see how one could get that from the verse, care to explain?
I'm not sure what is meant by "timely deliverance", however...
When it says, "if you confess with your mouth" that does not mean that just because you say some words that affirm of one's faith it is a work of justification, but such confession does however give an outward evidence of inward faith, and often confirms that faith to those who confess Christ is Lord. I also think one should recognize that when it says "Will be" there is a matter of linguistics that is being overlooked.
It would be similar in concept to saying, "I was in the hospital with Pneumonia" and treating Pneumonia as a person.
"Pneumonia and I went for a walk"
Look at who the Apostle Paul is addressing.
Also, be careful about not letting the bible define it's own terms. Context is key, otherwise you'll have to say verse 15 tells us women are saved through childbirth.
I guess you don't doggedly oppose Calvinism?
Do you think Calvinism makes God bad or evil?
Do you think it makes God out to be an unloving, uncaring ogre, choosing some for salvation and others for destruction for no reason?
Do you think Calvinism makes God worse than Adolf Hitler?
There's not too many Calvinists. I only know of three or four.
Myself, Phil36, Forest now, that grace guy whom I can't remember his name, and that South African gal who recently posted in one of the threads in the Teens Forum. The calvies are by far outnumbered by those saying "ya'll bunch a bad guys, m'kay".
Welcome Forest.
Run, Forest, Run!!! (just had to
)
John 6: 37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out
If you don't mind my asking, which one? I'm considering expanding my "operations" into a third board.
As long as he's not a hyper I'm glad to not be the only one on these forums.
Could you explain how that verse contradicts what he says? I don't really see how one could get that from the verse, care to explain?
I'm not sure what is meant by "timely deliverance", however...
When it says, "if you confess with your mouth" that does not mean that just because you say some words that affirm of one's faith it is a work of justification, but such confession does however give an outward evidence of inward faith, and often confirms that faith to those who confess Christ is Lord. I also think one should recognize that when it says "Will be" there is a matter of linguistics that is being overlooked.
It would be similar in concept to saying, "I was in the hospital with Pneumonia" and treating Pneumonia as a person.
"Pneumonia and I went for a walk"
Look at who the Apostle Paul is addressing.
Also, be careful about not letting the bible define it's own terms. Context is key, otherwise you'll have to say verse 15 tells us women are saved through childbirth.
I guess you don't doggedly oppose Calvinism?
Do you think Calvinism makes God bad or evil?
Do you think it makes God out to be an unloving, uncaring ogre, choosing some for salvation and others for destruction for no reason?
Do you think Calvinism makes God worse than Adolf Hitler?
There's not too many Calvinists. I only know of three or four.
Myself, Phil36, Forest now, that grace guy whom I can't remember his name, and that South African gal who recently posted in one of the threads in the Teens Forum. The calvies are by far outnumbered by those saying "ya'll bunch a bad guys, m'kay".
Welcome Forest.
Run, Forest, Run!!! (just had to
)
A
no Jimmy is a Calvanist, Zone isn't.
if you actually read what people wrote instead of putting your twist on it, you would know that.
but then with your ..........mmmm............. unique private interpertation of scripture, its not really surprising that you can't discern worldly things such as a users identity, and resort to ad hominem attacks instead of respectful dialog.
if you actually read what people wrote instead of putting your twist on it, you would know that.
but then with your ..........mmmm............. unique private interpertation of scripture, its not really surprising that you can't discern worldly things such as a users identity, and resort to ad hominem attacks instead of respectful dialog.
The apostle Paul declares, “there is no one that seeks after God” (Romans 3:11). The unbeliever never, never, never seeks God. The unbeliever is a fugitive from God. The natural pattern for man is to run from Him, to hide from Him. Jesus came to seek and save the lost. He is the Seeker.
"The LORD looks down from heaven on all mankind to see if there are any who understand, any who seek God. All have turned away, all have become corrupt; there is no one who does good, not even one." Psalm 14:2-3
"The LORD looks down from heaven on all mankind to see if there are any who understand, any who seek God. All have turned away, all have become corrupt; there is no one who does good, not even one." Psalm 14:2-3
Romans 3 was talking about how the Jews were just as much at fault as the Gentiles.
9 What then? Are we better than they? Not at all; for we have already charged that both Jews and Greeks are all under sin; 10 as it is written,
“THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE;
11 THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS,
THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD;
12 ALL HAVE TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME USELESS;
THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD,
THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE.”
13 “THEIR THROAT IS AN OPEN GRAVE,
WITH THEIR TONGUES THEY KEEP DECEIVING,”
“THE POISON OF ASPS IS UNDER THEIR LIPS”;
14 “WHOSE MOUTH IS FULL OF CURSING AND BITTERNESS”;
15 “THEIR FEET ARE SWIFT TO SHED BLOOD,
16 DESTRUCTION AND MISERY ARE IN THEIR PATHS,
17 AND THE PATH OF PEACE THEY HAVE NOT KNOWN.”
18 “THERE IS NO FEAR OF GOD BEFORE THEIR EYES.”
19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God; 20 because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.
Justification by Faith
21 But now apart.from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus; 25 whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed; 26 for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
9 What then? Are we better than they? Not at all; for we have already charged that both Jews and Greeks are all under sin; 10 as it is written,
“THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE;
11 THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS,
THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD;
12 ALL HAVE TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME USELESS;
THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD,
THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE.”
13 “THEIR THROAT IS AN OPEN GRAVE,
WITH THEIR TONGUES THEY KEEP DECEIVING,”
“THE POISON OF ASPS IS UNDER THEIR LIPS”;
14 “WHOSE MOUTH IS FULL OF CURSING AND BITTERNESS”;
15 “THEIR FEET ARE SWIFT TO SHED BLOOD,
16 DESTRUCTION AND MISERY ARE IN THEIR PATHS,
17 AND THE PATH OF PEACE THEY HAVE NOT KNOWN.”
18 “THERE IS NO FEAR OF GOD BEFORE THEIR EYES.”
19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God; 20 because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.
Justification by Faith
21 But now apart.from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus; 25 whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed; 26 for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
Romans 1:8-23 (NASB)
8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ [g]for you all, because your faith is being proclaimed throughout the whole world. 9 For God, whom I serve in my spirit in the preaching of the gospel of His Son, is my witness as to how unceasingly I make mention of you, 10 always in my prayers making request, if perhaps now at last by the will of God I may succeed in coming to you. 11 For I long to see you so that I may impart some spiritual gift to you, that you may be [h]established; 12 that is, that I may be encouraged together with you while among you, each of us by the other’s faith, both yours and mine. 13 I do not want you to be unaware, brethren, that often I have planned to come to you (and have been prevented so far) so that I may obtain some fruit among you also, even as among the rest of the Gentiles. 14 I am [i]under obligation both to Greeks and to barbarians, both to the wise and to the foolish. 15 So, for my part, I am eager to preach the gospel to you also who are in Rome.
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed [j]from faith to faith; as it is written, “[k]BUT THE RIGHTEOUS man SHALL LIVE BY FAITH.”
Unbelief and Its Consequences
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth [l]in unrighteousness, 19 because that which is known about God is evident [m]within them; for God made it evident to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. 21 For even though they knew God, they did not [n]honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and [o]crawling creatures.
8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ [g]for you all, because your faith is being proclaimed throughout the whole world. 9 For God, whom I serve in my spirit in the preaching of the gospel of His Son, is my witness as to how unceasingly I make mention of you, 10 always in my prayers making request, if perhaps now at last by the will of God I may succeed in coming to you. 11 For I long to see you so that I may impart some spiritual gift to you, that you may be [h]established; 12 that is, that I may be encouraged together with you while among you, each of us by the other’s faith, both yours and mine. 13 I do not want you to be unaware, brethren, that often I have planned to come to you (and have been prevented so far) so that I may obtain some fruit among you also, even as among the rest of the Gentiles. 14 I am [i]under obligation both to Greeks and to barbarians, both to the wise and to the foolish. 15 So, for my part, I am eager to preach the gospel to you also who are in Rome.
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed [j]from faith to faith; as it is written, “[k]BUT THE RIGHTEOUS man SHALL LIVE BY FAITH.”
Unbelief and Its Consequences
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth [l]in unrighteousness, 19 because that which is known about God is evident [m]within them; for God made it evident to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. 21 For even though they knew God, they did not [n]honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and [o]crawling creatures.
Exactly. The Jews and Gentiles don't want to seek God because of sin in their deceitful hearts. Both are guilty and worthy of Divine justice (Romans 3:11-20). Unless they have the justification of their sins through Jesus Christ by faith (Romans 3:22-26).
Can the natural man, dead in trespasses and sins, have faith by his own will? (Ephesians 2:5-8)
Can the natural man, dead in trespasses and sins, have faith by his own will? (Ephesians 2:5-8)