Those that God gave Christ

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F

Forest

Guest
Ok, Forest I see where your coming from now,

You believe that millions and millions of people were
doomed from the time they were brought into this world right?

Never to have salvation right?
After the fall of Adam, we were all doomed for eternal torment, but God choose an elect people from the fallen race of Adam for Christ to redeem back to him and the rest were left to their own destruction. God is a just God. We all deserved to be left to everlasting torment.
 
F

Forest

Guest
Forest, you continue to spout your false interpretation of Romans 10.

Rom 10:1) Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.

It is talking about ISRAEL, not "a type of God's elect".

Rom 10:9) That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

That verse tells us how to become saved. Born again.
Sorry, Shroom, but you are ignoring the key verse in the chapter, which is verse 3.
 
F

Forest

Guest
God does not predestinate our salvation. We receive salvation when we choose to act on Romans 10:9.
I know you get upset when I dismantel your favorite scripture, and you know how I believe it, so I'll let it lie.
 
F

Forest

Guest
no He did all of this so we might believe.

what about "dead in sin" is confusing?

Until God quickened the heart and convicted it of its sin and shone a light into your life you had nothing inside of you that even resembled belief.

it does not say by your faith you were made alive but by Grace through faith which is a gift from God. you didn't choose to be born, you don't choose to be born again. However you can choose to walk in the Spirit or in the flesh.


Ephesians 2

1 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.
I believe that we are interpreting the scriptures the same way, except maybe for one thing, unless I am reading you wrong, and that is that our faith, which we receive by the new birth, has nothing to do with our eternal salvation. Our eternal justification(salvation)is only by Christ's faith and not ours, Gal 2:16. If I am wrong about your thinking, I stand corrected.
 
F

Forest

Guest
Paul judged that those who are ignorant about the righteousness of God revealed in the gospel are lost, even if they are zealous for God.

Whatever any person may claim of faith, works, holiness, experiences, miracles, conduct, piety etc, if that person is ignorant of the righteousness of God revealed in the gospel, then that person is not saved.
By your comments and your interpretation of the scriptures, you sure are limmiting those who are saved eternally. I believe that his elect are numbered as the sand of the sea and the stars in the sky in number. There are more of God's children, born again, that do not have a knowledge of the truth than those that do, but all have eternal salvation, if they are of his elect. Matt 7:13-14, Both the wide gate and the strait gate are gates that God's children enter into. Those going into the wide gate are the children of God, born again, who do not have a knowledge of the truth and are going about to establish their own works of righteousness, such as Shroom is doing. Those that are going into the strait gate are those who have been revealed the truth by the Holy Spirit.
 
F

Forest

Guest
yes Christ died for everyone but unless God draws them and gives them a NEW Heart they will NOT choose to hear or see His Truth. it will be foolishness to them and be a stumbling block.

1 Corinthians 1:18
For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
If Christ died for everyone, and it is his will that everyone be saved eternally, then everyone will be saved eternally, but I don't think the truth is in these statements. Christ died for only those that the Father gave him John 6:37-40, and all that he died for will spend eternity with him. God accomplishes his will, Dan 4:35, and if it is his will that all mankind to be saved, they will be saved, but I don't believe that is his will. The God I serve accomplishes all his will, and is all powerful enough to do so.
 
J

jimmydiggs

Guest
I see that 2 Peter 3:9 has been abused again while I have been absent from this thread. So I will try this:


9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.


Who is the you?
 
F

Forest

Guest
I see that 2 Peter 3:9 has been abused again while I have been absent from this thread. So I will try this:


9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.


Who is the you?
What benefit is there to quoting the scripture again instead of commenting on my explaination of it?
 
Apr 13, 2011
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no He did all of this so we might believe.

what about "dead in sin" is confusing?

Until God quickened the heart and convicted it of its sin and shone a light into your life you had nothing inside of you that even resembled belief.

it does not say by your faith you were made alive but by Grace through faith which is a gift from God. you didn't choose to be born, you don't choose to be born again. However you can choose to walk in the Spirit or in the flesh.
Not true. God made salvation through Christ available to every single person who will choose to believe. Every person has to willfully make the decision to act on Rom 10:9. If they do that, they are saved.

Ephesians 2

1 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.
He did that when we made the decision to accept Jesus Christ and believe God raised him from the dead.
 
Apr 13, 2011
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So the real savior is the almighty free will of man?
Of course not. Jesus Christ is the savior. All we have to do to receive the salvation he made available it confess him as Lord and believe God raised him from the dead.

That the sinner is dead in his sins is of course a huge stumblingblock for any arminian/synergist, since it eradicates their hope of boasting in self.
Nobody is boasting in self.
 
Apr 13, 2011
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yes Christ died for everyone but unless God draws them and gives them a NEW Heart they will NOT choose to hear or see His Truth. it will be foolishness to them and be a stumbling block.
God is drawing everyone. He is not a respecter of persons.

1 Corinthians 1:18
For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
Right.
 
Apr 13, 2011
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After the fall of Adam, we were all doomed for eternal torment, but God choose an elect people from the fallen race of Adam for Christ to redeem back to him and the rest were left to their own destruction. God is a just God. We all deserved to be left to everlasting torment.
Yes, He is a just God. He does not unjustly determine some people will be permanently destroyed. They bring that on themselves by choosing not to believe.
 
I

Israel

Guest
If you are refering to Israel as a type of God's elect, then yes, all Israel will be saved, all mankind will not be saved eternally.
Of a truth, ALL of mankind IS Israel.
 
Apr 13, 2011
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...I've never seen so many Calvinists in one place before. Y'all think GOD HAS DECREED everything that will ever happen. You don't realize what God made each and every person. We are created in His image, with the ability to think, reason, express emotions,love, MAKE DECISIONS. We are free-will beings, created in the image of God. God made YOU responsible for your life. YOU are responsible for what you choose and believe. He loves every single person, and wants everyone to come to Him.

Calvinism sucks. It turns you all into a bunch of "robots for Jesus", making you not responsible for anything. "Oh, it's God's will, He is sovereign, we are not meant to understand why he decrees some to hell". What bunk.
 
I

Israel

Guest
The fact that you cannot rightly divide the meanings of the word "ALL" is why you think all mankind will be saved eternally, which is not so. If I say that I am going to take "all" of my children to town, it does not mean that I will take all other children. If all of the scriptures do not harmonise, then you are not rightly dividing.
How do you rightly divide the word "all"? If I were a robber with a gun and I tell you to give me ALL your money, I mean all. Even the stash you might have in your sock.
 
I

Israel

Guest
A person who has been taken prisoner or an animal that has been confined. (imprisoned)

captive = imprisonment against an individual's will.
So if Jesus took captivity CAPTIVE, what did He do?
 

lil_christian

Senior Member
Mar 14, 2010
7,489
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...I've never seen so many Calvinists in one place before. Y'all think GOD HAS DECREED everything that will ever happen. You don't realize what God made each and every person. We are created in His image, with the ability to think, reason, express emotions,love, MAKE DECISIONS. We are free-will beings, created in the image of God. God made YOU responsible for your life. YOU are responsible for what you choose and believe. He loves every single person, and wants everyone to come to Him.

Calvinism sucks. It turns you all into a bunch of "robots for Jesus", making you not responsible for anything. "Oh, it's God's will, He is sovereign, we are not meant to understand why he decrees some to hell". What bunk.
Yeah in addition to that...

How do you (you meaning Calvinists) explain the story of Jonah? Where does predestination fit into there?
 

cronjecj

Banned [Reason: ongoing "extreme error/heresy" Den
Sep 25, 2011
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So if Jesus took captivity CAPTIVE, what did He do?
He led as captives to the Father and received us as gifts to the body.