Those that God gave Christ

[DinoDillinger]

ok i'm on my fourth listening to the sermon. I think I fell asleep last night and my kids were kind of distracting this morning.

I understand why you someone might try listening to this sermon 4 times, he sounds like he is making very good points if your already drinking the kool-aid. I like how you have to re-translate most of the chapter to make it say something different then what it says... Also interesting to note how this teacher betrays his theology when at the beginning confessing that it is God who puts you in Israel by giving you faith. Oh well..

 

[lil_christian]

The most significant point made in the sermon: You have to know the Old Testament to understand the New Testament, or else you're going to misinterpret the New Testament in places. (I'm taking an Old Testament course...it's really interesting )

 

[lil_christian]

Also interesting to note how this teacher betrays his theology when at the beginning confessing that it is God who puts you in Israel by giving you faith. Oh well..

How many minutes in were you when he said that? (I didn't hear him say that but then again I'm ADD and sometimes I have the potential to completely block some stuff out because I get so distracted)

 

[AnandaHya]

I understand why you someone might try listening to this sermon 4 times, he sounds like he is making very good points if your already drinking the kool-aid. I like how you have to re-translate most of the chapter to make it say something different then what it says... Also interesting to note how this teacher betrays his theology when at the beginning confessing that it is God who puts you in Israel by giving you faith. Oh well..

I think it partially due to his use of the RSV instead of the KJV because they translate different source texts.

In addition I believe he has some of it right but not all of it.

People who believe in Free will like to call their opponents Calvinist with a sneer.

People who believe in Divine election like to call their opponents Armianist mirroring their sneer.

Truthfully I believe they both have some of the truth mixed with lies.

God does chooses whom He wills but it is not unconditional. He is just. He calls many but few are chosen because few bear good fruit. He has given people the ability to come to Him through Jesus Christ. However often people reject Him. He can through His mercy give them grace again and another opportunity to hear His Word and Gospel and believe or He can chose to let them believe a lie.

Its God's choice but God will choose to give every human a chance at redemption.

They have TWO natures warring within them: the Old and the New. the Old follows Adam and has his curse, the New is a life giving spirit.

 

[lil_christian]

People who believe in Free will like to call their opponents Calvinist with a sneer.

I didn't really hear that kind of personality in the guy's voice when I listened to the sermon...but then again this part you posted might not be related to the sermon.

Truthfully I believe they both have some of the truth mixed with lies.

Yeah unfortunately it happens :/ I haven't found problems with believing free will yet...but I haven't read the whole entire Bible either. (I'm going to do that starting next year.)

 

[Forest]

You have to rightly-divide God's Word to have Truth, Forest. Coming away from scripture believing God wills to save only some but sentences others to destruction before they are even born is believing error, not Truth. The error you believe was not revealed to you by God. It is your erroneous interpretation.

God is love, He is light, in Him is no darkness at all. Sentencing people to eternal destruction before they are born is not love, or light.

And your definition of God's love is that he lets many spend eternity in hell when he wants them to be saved and has the power to save them, but will not use his power to save them. Is that your loving God?

 

[shroom2]

...God does chooses whom He wills but it is not unconditional. He is just. He calls many but few are chosen because few bear good fruit. He has given people the ability to come to Him through Jesus Christ. However often people reject Him. He can through His mercy give them grace again and another opportunity to hear His Word and Gospel and believe or He can chose to let them believe a lie.

What do you mean "give them grace again"? It is God's will for all men to be saved. Any man can come to God at any time and God will receive him. He does not choose to "give grace again" to some but choose to let others believe a lie. That is simply a milder form of believing God chose to save some but not others.

Its God's choice but God will choose to give every human a chance at redemption.

It is not God's choice who is saved. His choice would be for all men to be saved. Once a man hears, every (unsaved) man always has the opportunity to believe for salvation before him. It is entirely up to each man to choose. (There's the issue of "the man from Borneo" who has never heard, but I believe God will handle people like that in a fair way.)

God bless.

 

[shroom2]

And your definition of God's love is that he lets many spend eternity in hell when he wants them to be saved and has the power to save them, but will not use his power to save them. Is that your loving God?

Every man makes the choice to believe or not, Forest. God will not override a man's free will. He wants all men to believe on Him. Unfortunately, not all will.

 

[Israel]

And your definition of God's love is that he lets many spend eternity in hell when he wants them to be saved and has the power to save them, but will not use his power to save them. Is that your loving God?

If you truly believe this, then why not proclaim the victory we have through Christ that all men are saved.

Does not God do ALL His good pleasure?

 

[DinoDillinger]

How many minutes in were you when he said that? (I didn't hear him say that but then again I'm ADD and sometimes I have the potential to completely block some stuff out because I get so distracted)

26th minute. uggh


Am I missing it or does he totally disconnect God choosing the nation of Israel to the latter part of the chapter? To me it seems that he attempts to refute each point of the scripture but then ends up with a big pointless mess at the end, meaning that the chapter makes no point, except that it does not mean what it appears to.

 

[shroom2]

Am I missing it or does he totally disconnect God choosing the nation of Israel to the latter part of the chapter? To me it seems that he attempts to refute each point of the scripture but then ends up with a big pointless mess at the end, meaning that the chapter makes no point, except that it does not mean what it appears to.

You're missing it.

 

[DinoDillinger]

I think it partially due to his use of the RSV instead of the KJV because they translate different source texts.

In addition I believe he has some of it right but not all of it.

People who believe in Free will like to call their opponents Calvinist with a sneer.

People who believe in Divine election like to call their opponents Armianist mirroring their sneer.

Truthfully I believe they both have some of the truth mixed with lies.

God does chooses whom He wills but it is not unconditional. He is just.1. He calls many but few are chosen because few bear good fruit. He has given people the ability to come to Him through Jesus Christ. However often people reject Him. He can through His mercy give them grace again and another opportunity to hear His Word and Gospel and believe or He can chose to let them believe a lie.

2.Its God's choice but God will choose to give every human a chance at redemption.

3.They have TWO natures warring within them: the Old and the New. the Old follows Adam and has his curse, the New is a life giving spirit.

A few questions,
1. Few are chosen BECAUSE they bear good fruit?
2. What do you base this off?
3. Who is they? It sounds as if your implying that everybody is born again/has the Holy Spirit.

 

[DinoDillinger]

You're missing it.

Isn't that what I just said?

 

[shroom2]

Isn't that what I just said?

No. You asked if you were missing it.

I answered.

 

[DinoDillinger]

No. You asked if you were missing it.

I answered.

Haha, do you always answer rhetorical questions?

 

[shroom2]

Haha, do you always answer rhetorical questions?

Is this a rhetorical question?

...sorry .

 

[AnandaHya]

What do you mean "give them grace again"? It is God's will for all men to be saved. Any man can come to God at any time and God will receive him. He does not choose to "give grace again" to some but choose to let others believe a lie. That is simply a milder form of believing God chose to save some but not others.


It is not God's choice who is saved. His choice would be for all men to be saved. Once a man hears, every (unsaved) man always has the opportunity to believe for salvation before him. It is entirely up to each man to choose. (There's the issue of "the man from Borneo" who has never heard, but I believe God will handle people like that in a fair way.)

God bless.

it is by grace that the person hears the Gospel even once in their life. at that time they can choose to accept or reject.

If they accept the sanctification process begins in order to conform them into the image of Christ and for them to learn to follow the Holy Spirit and not the lust of their flesh.

If they refuse then God is just to judge and condemn them, let them believe a lie, or chasten them so that they might feel godly sorrow and repent and turn back to him. (the sermon you posted the guy even says this)

God's choice to offer His grace and mercy again.

Take the parable of the talents. one is given 10 and they add ten more. one is given 3? and they add 3 more, one is given one and he buries it in the ground and hides it.

the one who hides it gets cast into the Eternal Fire.

what are the talents?

It is the LIGHT of Christ. It is the Measure of Faith God has given to each person. It will either increase or people who have little faith will hide it and deny the name of Jesus before men.

Luke 8

16 “No one, when he has lit a lamp, covers it with a vessel or puts it under a bed, but sets it on a lampstand, that those who enter may see the light. 17 For nothing is secret that will not be revealed, nor anything hidden that will not be known and come to light. 18 Therefore take heed how you hear. For whoever has, to him more will be given; and whoever does not have, even what he seems to have will be taken from him.”

 

[AnandaHya]

A few questions,
1. Few are chosen BECAUSE they bear good fruit?
2. What do you base this off?
3. Who is they? It sounds as if your implying that everybody is born again/has the Holy Spirit.

John said "bear fruit worthy of repentance" and there are other scriptures if you need them.

I believe everyone is given the SEED the WORD OF GOD but not all the ground bears fruit, a chance to accept the Gospel.

Does that mean they are born again or have the Holy Spirit?

Perhaps as Saul did in the OT but when he sinned God replaced it with a distressing spirit.

1 Samuel 16

14 But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and a distressing spirit from the LORD troubled him. 15 And Saul’s servants said to him, “Surely, a distressing spirit from God is troubling you. 16 Let our master now command your servants, who are before you, to seek out a man who is a skillful player on the harp. And it shall be that he will play it with his hand when the distressing spirit from God is upon you, and you shall be well.”
17 So Saul said to his servants, “Provide me now a man who can play well, and bring him to me.”
18 Then one of the servants answered and said, “Look, I have seen a son of Jesse the Bethlehemite, who is skillful in playing, a mighty man of valor, a man of war, prudent in speech, and a handsome person; and the LORD is with him.”
19 Therefore Saul sent messengers to Jesse, and said, “Send me your son David, who is with the sheep.” 20 And Jesse took a donkey loaded with bread, a skin of wine, and a young goat, and sent them by his son David to Saul. 21 So David came to Saul and stood before him. And he loved him greatly, and he became his armorbearer. 22 Then Saul sent to Jesse, saying, “Please let David stand before me, for he has found favor in my sight.” 23 And so it was, whenever the spirit from God was upon Saul, that David would take a harp and play it with his hand. Then Saul would become refreshed and well, and the distressing spirit would depart from him.

oh that more would obey the commandments of God. Especially this one then we could chase away those distressing spirits.


Ephesians 5:18-20
New King James Version (NKJV)
18 And do not be drunk with wine, in which is dissipation; but be filled with the Spirit, 19 speaking to one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord, 20 giving thanks always for all things to God the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ,

 

[DinoDillinger]

Romans 9:23 and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory,

The plain context of this chapter points out not that God doesn't choose His elect but that no human is wronged by not being selected, as mentioned in vs 16, the context is not earthly blessing or the lineage of Christ. The mercy spoken of is salvation and remission of sins. Paul is reconciling the preaching of the gospel and its free offer of forgiveness of sins with the understanding that God elects (chooses) His people. All Israel will be saved, that is all who are chosen by God, not according to the flesh, but of the promise. Man is by nature at war with God and does not accept God's right to be a judge over him. Thus insults are thrown at a God who claims to have the right to damn or redeem the sinner. Faith is not a requirement to be born again, unless a man is born of water and the spirit he cannot see the kingdom of God. People turn faith into a work so they can make themselves right with God, saving faith is a gift of God, not a choosing of man's flesh. End of rant.

 

[Forest]

Every man makes the choice to believe or not, Forest. God will not override a man's free will. He wants all men to believe on Him. Unfortunately, not all will.

The only way that a person will believe in spiritual things is because he has already been born of the Spirit. The natural man will not choose to believe in spiritual things. 1 Cor 2:14. We serve a jealous God and he gets all of the credit for our eternal salvation and man gets none. You are still trying to give man power to save himself eternally. You think that you gave permission to God to save you. Without man's permission God will not save anyone. You can not define that any other way, except salvation by works of man. If you believe it is dependent upon man to get himself saved eternally. Thats false doctrine that credits man instead of God.