Tithing Again

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Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
10,911
5,386
113
#61
whats the difference im so confused with this
Fair question.

Tithing, as prescribed in Scripture, is giving the tenth (as counted) animal of your flocks and herds, and the tenth (portion) of your crops to the tabernacle or temple for the use of the Levites, priests, and the needy of your community. It was mandatory for Israel... never optional, and the proportion was prescribed specifically. If an Israelite wanted to keep the goods, he could pay the monetary value plus 20%.

That's the basic tithe. There was also the festival tithe, which was every third year. This the Israelites would consume themselves, rather than submitting it to the Levites. They could convert it to money for the convenience of travel, then spend the money on what they desired at festival times.

Abraham gave a tithe of war spoils that didn't even belong to him originally; it was a one-time event and was not required. Jacob promised to tithe if he prospered, but there is no record that he ever actually did so.

Malachi wrote to Israel and told them to bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, promising specific blessings for following this particular Law.

None of the above was given to Christians. We are not under the Law given through Moses. When Christians contribute of their financial or other resources, it is not "tithing" because it is not done according to the Law... we don't bring our goods to the tabernacle or temple and we don't submit them to a Levite.

What we are called to do is "give"... the fundamental difference is that giving is voluntary; tithing was mandatory. Even when a Christian gives ten percent of their financial income, they still aren't tithing according to the Law. Rather than confuse people by using the wrong term, it's best to separate the two concepts completely. That way, Christians aren't misled into thinking that they are, or should be, following a Law that really doesn't apply to them.
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
5,928
675
113
#62
I already gave at the office.
 

Demi777

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2014
6,532
1,473
113
Germany
#63
Fair question.

Tithing, as prescribed in Scripture, is giving the tenth (as counted) animal of your flocks and herds, and the tenth (portion) of your crops to the tabernacle or temple for the use of the Levites, priests, and the needy of your community. It was mandatory for Israel... never optional, and the proportion was prescribed specifically. If an Israelite wanted to keep the goods, he could pay the monetary value plus 20%.

That's the basic tithe. There was also the festival tithe, which was every third year. This the Israelites would consume themselves, rather than submitting it to the Levites. They could convert it to money for the convenience of travel, then spend the money on what they desired at festival times.

Abraham gave a tithe of war spoils that didn't even belong to him originally; it was a one-time event and was not required. Jacob promised to tithe if he prospered, but there is no record that he ever actually did so.

Malachi wrote to Israel and told them to bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, promising specific blessings for following this particular Law.

None of the above was given to Christians. We are not under the Law given through Moses. When Christians contribute of their financial or other resources, it is not "tithing" because it is not done according to the Law... we don't bring our goods to the tabernacle or temple and we don't submit them to a Levite.

What we are called to do is "give"... the fundamental difference is that giving is voluntary; tithing was mandatory. Even when a Christian gives ten percent of their financial income, they still aren't tithing according to the Law. Rather than confuse people by using the wrong term, it's best to separate the two concepts completely. That way, Christians aren't misled into thinking that they are, or should be, following a Law that really doesn't apply to them.
:) thanks
 
Sep 3, 2016
3,460
307
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#64
“Tithing under the New Covenant, as we have stated, comes to us by the means of Abraham, because we are children of Abraham.

If Abraham’s children paid tithe, and such is proven by the experience of Jacob, we as the children of Abraham are to do likewise.

Many Believers have it in their mind that tithing originated with the Law. And inasmuch as the Law of Moses has been fulfilled in Christ, then tithing is no more incumbent upon modern Believers.

In the first place, and as we have proven, tithing did not begin with the Law, but probably at the very beginning of time, and was spelled out clearly under Abraham.”


“Under the Law, the care for the Priests, and the upkeep of the Temple were done so by Tithe. Unfortunately, at times, Israel was not too faithful.

Presently, and I speak of the New Covenant, the Priesthood is no more, that being replaced by the Ministry (Eph. 4:11). Our task now, as well, is not the Temple, for there is no Temple as such under the New Covenant, but rather, the taking of the Gospel to the world. Jesus said:

“Go you therefore (applies to any and all who follow Christ, and in all ages) , and teach all nations ( should have been translated, ‘and preach to all nations,’ for the word ‘teach’ here refers to a proclamation of truth), baptizing them in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit (presents the only formula for Water Baptism given in the Word of God) :

“Teaching them (means to give instruction) to observe all things (the whole Gospel for the whole man) whatsoever I have commanded you (not a suggestion) : and, lo, I am with you always (it is I, Myself, God, and Man, Who am — not ‘will be’ — hence, forever present among you and with you as Companion, Friend, Guide, Saviour, God), even unto the end of the world (should have been translated ‘age’). Amen (it is the guarantee of My Promise) ” (Mat. 28:19-20).”


"And as someone has well said, the Gospel of Jesus Christ and Him Crucified can only go as far as the dollar takes it."

JSM
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
24,605
6,318
113
#65
Abraham gave a tithe of war spoils that didn't even belong to him originally; it was a one-time event and was not required.
this is an interesting example - in fact the spoils never belonged to him at all:

The king of Sodom said to Abram, “Give me the people and keep the goods for yourself.”
But Abram said to the king of Sodom, “With raised hand I have sworn an oath to the Lord, God Most High, Creator of heaven and earth, that I will accept nothing belonging to you, not even a thread or the strap of a sandal, so that you will never be able to say, ‘I made Abram rich.’ I will accept nothing but what my men have eaten and the share that belongs to the men who went with me — to Aner, Eshkol and Mamre. Let them have their share.”
(Genesis 14:21-24)
the goods that Abram gave a tenth to Melchizedek from were these:

The four kings seized all the goods of Sodom and Gomorrah and all their food; then they went away. They also carried off Abram’s nephew Lot and his possessions, since he was living in Sodom.
(Genesis 14:11-12)

they are not Abrams. some of them are Lot's. all of the goods & food that he gave a tenth of were every valuable item in Sodom & Gomorrah, which had been stolen as spoils by Kedorlaomer king of Elam, Tidal king of Goyim, Amraphel king of Shinar and Arioch king of Ellasar ((v.9)).

they were not Abram's to begin with, and when the king of Sodom offered these goods to Abram ((v.21)) - as recorded immediately after he gave a tenth of them to Melchizidek ((v.20)) -- Abram refused. Abram may have had a legal right to them as spoils of war, not that Abram and his men fought in order to conquer or to loot, but Abram refused to take anything, and even in doing so, spoke of the wealth as tho he in fact did not consider himself to have right to them, talking about the subject as tho it would have been a gift to him from the king of Sodom, not fair wage or a sum that was rightfully his in any way.

all he would accept is what would have been a fair wage for the militia that came with him, and not to be charged for whatever provisions they had already consumed. a wage for others, he wouldn't deny, and sustenance, he considered others to have had right to - but ownership of the sum of which he had given a portion to the priest? Abram made no claim to it, nor would he accept it.

this is a very interesting point, to me, if one looks at this as evidence of 'tithe' being a commandment carried over into the new covenant under a 'Melchizedekian priesthood'
because what does Abram actually do? he literally gives the priest a tenth of other people's stuff :)
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
9,377
3,079
113
#66
The point is.....this widow had no obligation to give all while the rich gave little, a phenomenon ancillary to the ruined state of the religious malpractice.
The point is that this widow loved God above herself and was commended for it. All the rest is irrelevant.

And that is the lesson for Christians to learn about Christian liberality.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
9,377
3,079
113
#67
I think you misunderstood my point. I meant people in a service don't have to give if they don't care to as God loves a cheerful giver. I know enough about giving as I am one of those cheerful givers. Happy New Year.
Yes, God loves a cheerful giver, but He expects the reluctant giver to do what he or she is supposed to do -- bite the bullet and do the right thing.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
10,911
5,386
113
#68
“Tithing under the New Covenant, as we have stated, comes to us by the means of Abraham...
Utter hogwash without scriptural support.

If Abraham’s children paid tithe, and such is proven by the experience of Jacob, we as the children of Abraham are to do likewise.
Such is NOT proven by the experience of Jacob, for Scripture NEVER records Jacob paying a tithe. Tithing as a requirement was given to Israel through Moses, not through Abraham.

Many Believers have it in their mind that tithing originated with the Law. And inasmuch as the Law of Moses has been fulfilled in Christ, then tithing is no more incumbent upon modern Believers.
These are the only true statements in your post.

"And as someone has well said, the Gospel of Jesus Christ and Him Crucified can only go as far as the dollar takes it."
This isn't biblical, and as such, can safely be ignored.
 
Sep 3, 2016
3,460
307
83
#71
“Tithing under the New Covenant, as we have stated, comes to us by the means of Abraham, because we are children of Abraham.

If Abraham’s children paid tithe, and such is proven by the experience of Jacob, we as the children of Abraham are to do likewise.

Many Believers have it in their mind that tithing originated with the Law. And inasmuch as the Law of Moses has been fulfilled in Christ, then tithing is no more incumbent upon modern Believers.

In the first place, and as we have proven, tithing did not begin with the Law, but probably at the very beginning of time, and was spelled out clearly under Abraham.”


“Under the Law, the care for the Priests, and the upkeep of the Temple were done so by Tithe. Unfortunately, at times, Israel was not too faithful.

Presently, and I speak of the New Covenant, the Priesthood is no more, that being replaced by the Ministry (Eph. 4:11). Our task now, as well, is not the Temple, for there is no Temple as such under the New Covenant, but rather, the taking of the Gospel to the world. Jesus said:

“Go you therefore (applies to any and all who follow Christ, and in all ages) , and teach all nations ( should have been translated, ‘and preach to all nations,’ for the word ‘teach’ here refers to a proclamation of truth), baptizing them in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit (presents the only formula for Water Baptism given in the Word of God) :

“Teaching them (means to give instruction) to observe all things (the whole Gospel for the whole man) whatsoever I have commanded you (not a suggestion) : and, lo, I am with you always (it is I, Myself, God, and Man, Who am — not ‘will be’ — hence, forever present among you and with you as Companion, Friend, Guide, Saviour, God), even unto the end of the world (should have been translated ‘age’). Amen (it is the guarantee of My Promise) ” (Mat. 28:19-20).”


"And as someone has well said, the Gospel of Jesus Christ and Him Crucified can only go as far as the dollar takes it."

JSM
“WHERE TO TITHE

Unfortunately, most of the giving presently goes to that which is really not the Gospel of Jesus Christ, but something else altogether. So we must not only be faithful to give to the Work of God, but, as well, give to where the true Work of God is actually being carried out, which refers to the Message of the Cross. The Holy Spirit through Paul emphatically states this. The Church at Philippi had sent Paul a generous offering while he was in prison in Rome, the offering, incidentally, which he, no doubt, desperately needed. So, in the letter he wrote to the Church at Philippi, thanking them for their offering, he said the following:”
“Not because I desire a gift (presents the Apostle defending himself against the slanderous assertion that he is using the Gospel as a means to make money): but I desire fruit that may abound to your account. (God keeps a record of everything, even our gifts, whether giving or receiving.)

“But I have all, and abound: I am full (proclaims the fact that the Philippian gift must have been generous) , having received of Epaphroditus the things which were sent from you (Epaphroditus had brought the gift from Philippi to Rome), an odour of a sweet smell (presents the Old Testament odors of the Levitical Sacrifices, all typifying Christ), a Sacrifice acceptable, well-pleasing to God. (For those who gave to Paul, enabling him to take the Message of the Cross to others, their gift, and such gifts presently, are looked at by God as a part of the Sacrificial Atoning Work of Christ on the Cross. Nothing could be higher than that!)

“But my God shall supply all your need (presents the Apostle assuring the Philippians, and all other Believers as well, that they have not impoverished themselves in giving so liberally to the cause of Christ) according to His Riches in Glory (the measure of supply will be determined by the wealth of God in Glory) by Christ Jesus (made possible by the Cross)” (Phil. 4:17-19).

The true Gospel of Jesus Christ is, “Jesus Christ and Him Crucified” (I Cor. 1:23). This is the Gospel that must be supported. Anything else is of little consequence.”


JSM
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
1,750
782
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#72
The point is that this widow loved God above herself and was commended for it. All the rest is irrelevant.

And that is the lesson for Christians to learn about Christian liberality.
I don't think so. A common misconception in fact. Jesus does not want penniless widows to give their very last coins to uber wealthy Saducees running a corrupt temple franchise that Jesus cleansed twice.

Wrong wrong wrong. Televangelists do the exact same thing. Are the penniless widows to be commended for making them rich too?

And we have greedy apostate damned preachers demanding we do the same as this widow. They too shall suffer the same fate as the wretched Saducees......

No....this account is a specific case of bogus religion and imminent judgment because of it. The widow herself is incidental. There were many widows being likewise exploited.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
24,605
6,318
113
#73
The point is that this widow loved God above herself and was commended for it. All the rest is irrelevant.

And that is the lesson for Christians to learn about Christian liberality.
it makes me uneasy, how you say, "all the rest" of the context & sequence, of the relationship between this scripture and the scripture around it, everything more we can learn from this thing infinite God said, "is irrelevant"

:whistle:
 

TabinRivCA

Well-known member
Oct 23, 2018
3,186
2,655
113
#74
Yes, God loves a cheerful giver, but He expects the reluctant giver to do what he or she is supposed to do -- bite the bullet and do the right thing.
Yes, Ron 3:23 '..for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God..'.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
1,750
782
113
#75
“WHERE TO TITHE

Unfortunately, most of the giving presently goes to that which is really not the Gospel of Jesus Christ, but something else altogether. So we must not only be faithful to give to the Work of God, but, as well, give to where the true Work of God is actually being carried out, which refers to the Message of the Cross. The Holy Spirit through Paul emphatically states this. The Church at Philippi had sent Paul a generous offering while he was in prison in Rome, the offering, incidentally, which he, no doubt, desperately needed. So, in the letter he wrote to the Church at Philippi, thanking them for their offering, he said the following:”
“Not because I desire a gift (presents the Apostle defending himself against the slanderous assertion that he is using the Gospel as a means to make money): but I desire fruit that may abound to your account. (God keeps a record of everything, even our gifts, whether giving or receiving.)

“But I have all, and abound: I am full (proclaims the fact that the Philippian gift must have been generous) , having received of Epaphroditus the things which were sent from you (Epaphroditus had brought the gift from Philippi to Rome), an odour of a sweet smell (presents the Old Testament odors of the Levitical Sacrifices, all typifying Christ), a Sacrifice acceptable, well-pleasing to God. (For those who gave to Paul, enabling him to take the Message of the Cross to others, their gift, and such gifts presently, are looked at by God as a part of the Sacrificial Atoning Work of Christ on the Cross
I don't think so. A common misconception in fact. Jesus does not want penniless widows to give their very last coins to uber wealthy Saducees running a corrupt temple franchise that Jesus cleansed twice.

Wrong wrong wrong. Televangelists do the exact same thing. Are the penniless widows to be commended for making them rich too?

And we have greedy apostate damned preachers demanding we do the same as this widow. They too shall suffer the same fate as the wretched Saducees......

No....this account is a specific case of bogus religion and imminent judgment because of it. The widow herself is incidental. There were many widows being likewise exploited.
Oh....and I am not saying thaat this widow was not faithful. She may have been sincelely faithful. But the context indicates she was being mercilessly exploited in a bogus religious system. And THAT is the point of the several linked passages!
 
Sep 3, 2016
3,460
307
83
#76
“WHERE TO TITHE

Unfortunately, most of the giving presently goes to that which is really not the Gospel of Jesus Christ, but something else altogether. So we must not only be faithful to give to the Work of God, but, as well, give to where the true Work of God is actually being carried out, which refers to the Message of the Cross. The Holy Spirit through Paul emphatically states this. The Church at Philippi had sent Paul a generous offering while he was in prison in Rome, the offering, incidentally, which he, no doubt, desperately needed. So, in the letter he wrote to the Church at Philippi, thanking them for their offering, he said the following:”
“Not because I desire a gift (presents the Apostle defending himself against the slanderous assertion that he is using the Gospel as a means to make money): but I desire fruit that may abound to your account. (God keeps a record of everything, even our gifts, whether giving or receiving.)

“But I have all, and abound: I am full (proclaims the fact that the Philippian gift must have been generous) , having received of Epaphroditus the things which were sent from you (Epaphroditus had brought the gift from Philippi to Rome), an odour of a sweet smell (presents the Old Testament odors of the Levitical Sacrifices, all typifying Christ), a Sacrifice acceptable, well-pleasing to God. (For those who gave to Paul, enabling him to take the Message of the Cross to others, their gift, and such gifts presently, are looked at by God as a part of the Sacrificial Atoning Work of Christ on the Cross. Nothing could be higher than that!)

“But my God shall supply all your need (presents the Apostle assuring the Philippians, and all other Believers as well, that they have not impoverished themselves in giving so liberally to the cause of Christ) according to His Riches in Glory (the measure of supply will be determined by the wealth of God in Glory) by Christ Jesus (made possible by the Cross)” (Phil. 4:17-19).

The true Gospel of Jesus Christ is, “Jesus Christ and Him Crucified” (I Cor. 1:23). This is the Gospel that must be supported. Anything else is of little consequence.”


JSM
“THE BLESSINGS OF TITHING

The old adage “you can’t outgive God,” to be sure, is one hundred percent true.

The worst thing that a Christian can do, when finances are tight, and he’s wondering how in the world he’s going to pay all the bills, is to say in his heart, “I cannot afford to give anything to the Lord this month,” etc. That is a big, big mistake.

When the Holy Spirit was to give a dissertation on “giving,” as it regards the Work of God to the Early Church, through Paul he used as an example the poorest Churches of all, those in Macedonia. The following is what Paul said:

“Moreover, Brethren, we do you to witness of the Grace of God bestowed on the Churches of Macedonia (northern Greece);

How that in a great trial of affliction (Macedonia was greatly impoverished due to political and military problems) the abundance of their joy and their deep poverty abounded unto the riches of their liberality. (Despite their deep poverty, they gave liberally to the Work of God.)

For to their power, I bear record (Paul knew their financial circumstances), yes, and beyond their power they were willing of themselves (they gave beyond what it seemed they could give);

Praying us with much entreaty that we would receive the gift (knowing their impoverished circumstances, Paul didn’t want to take the gift, but they insisted), and take upon us the fellowship of the Ministering to the Saints. (Paul was receiving an Offering from all the Churches for the poor Saints at Jerusalem.)

And this they did (gave far beyond what seemed to be their ability), not as we hoped (meaning much greater than he had hoped), but first gave their own selves to the Lord (this means it was the Will of the Lord for them to do what they did) , and unto us by the Will of God. (They had great confidence in Paul and his Ministry. As we see here, the Holy Spirit used Macedonia as an example) (II Cor. 8:1-5).

The Holy Spirit used these impoverished Churches as an example, and for reason. It addresses itself perfectly to the Christian who thinks he cannot afford to give to God. My advice is whatever else we have to take off the list, above all, put the Lord first. This is the only way to get out of debt, to get one’s feet on solid financial footing, put God first. Tithing should be a minimum, with offerings given on top of that as we are able to do so, or else the Lord speaks to us about a certain amount.”

“Paul then wrote:

But this I say, He which sows sparingly shall reap also sparingly (if we give little to the Lord, He will bless little); and he which sows bountifully shall reap also bountifully. (If we give bountifully, He will bless bountifully. This is a Promise of the Lord) (II Cor. 9:6).

I cannot help but believe that the Lord blessed the Macedonians abundantly. But there is something else about this that we must understand.

It’s not necessarily the amount that one gives, but it’s how much we have left. There are some people who could only give $25 in today’s money, but to God it is a bountiful amount, and simply because they don’t have much. And there are others who give $1,000 and it’s an insult to the Lord because He has blessed them abundantly so, and yet they aren’t reciprocating.”

“Jesus called attention to a poor widow by saying the following:

And He looked up (our Lord was in the covered colonnade of that part of the Temple which was open to the Jewish women; here was the treasury with its thirteen boxes on the wall, where the people could give offerings), and saw the rich men casting their gifts into the treasury (implying that they were making a show of their gifts, desiring to impress the people by the amount, etc.).

And He saw also a certain poor widow casting in thither two mites (was probably worth something less than a U.S. dollar in 2003 purchasing power).

“And He said, Of a truth I say unto you (presents a new concept of giving), that this poor widow has cast in more than they all (the term ‘poor widow’ means that she worked very hard for what little she received) :”

“For all these have of their abundance cast in unto the offerings of God (means that they had much left, constituting very little given, at least in the Eyes of God): but she of her penury (poverty) has cast in all the living that she had (spoke of her gift, as small as it was, being larger than all others combined because she gave all; God judges our giving by many factors; motive plays very heavily into the account)” (Lk. 21:1-4).


JSM





 
Sep 3, 2016
3,460
307
83
#77
“THE BLESSINGS OF TITHING

The old adage “you can’t outgive God,” to be sure, is one hundred percent true.

The worst thing that a Christian can do, when finances are tight, and he’s wondering how in the world he’s going to pay all the bills, is to say in his heart, “I cannot afford to give anything to the Lord this month,” etc. That is a big, big mistake.

When the Holy Spirit was to give a dissertation on “giving,” as it regards the Work of God to the Early Church, through Paul he used as an example the poorest Churches of all, those in Macedonia. The following is what Paul said:


“Moreover, Brethren, we do you to witness of the Grace of God bestowed on the Churches of Macedonia (northern Greece);

How that in a great trial of affliction (Macedonia was greatly impoverished due to political and military problems) the abundance of their joy and their deep poverty abounded unto the riches of their liberality. (Despite their deep poverty, they gave liberally to the Work of God.)

For to their power, I bear record (Paul knew their financial circumstances), yes, and beyond their power they were willing of themselves (they gave beyond what it seemed they could give);

Praying us with much entreaty that we would receive the gift (knowing their impoverished circumstances, Paul didn’t want to take the gift, but they insisted), and take upon us the fellowship of the Ministering to the Saints. (Paul was receiving an Offering from all the Churches for the poor Saints at Jerusalem.)


And this they did (gave far beyond what seemed to be their ability), not as we hoped (meaning much greater than he had hoped), but first gave their own selves to the Lord (this means it was the Will of the Lord for them to do what they did) , and unto us by the Will of God. (They had great confidence in Paul and his Ministry. As we see here, the Holy Spirit used Macedonia as an example) (II Cor. 8:1-5).

The Holy Spirit used these impoverished Churches as an example, and for reason. It addresses itself perfectly to the Christian who thinks he cannot afford to give to God. My advice is whatever else we have to take off the list, above all, put the Lord first. This is the only way to get out of debt, to get one’s feet on solid financial footing, put God first. Tithing should be a minimum, with offerings given on top of that as we are able to do so, or else the Lord speaks to us about a certain amount.”


“Paul then wrote:

But this I say, He which sows sparingly shall reap also sparingly (if we give little to the Lord, He will bless little); and he which sows bountifully shall reap also bountifully. (If we give bountifully, He will bless bountifully. This is a Promise of the Lord) (II Cor. 9:6).

I cannot help but believe that the Lord blessed the Macedonians abundantly. But there is something else about this that we must understand.

It’s not necessarily the amount that one gives, but it’s how much we have left. There are some people who could only give $25 in today’s money, but to God it is a bountiful amount, and simply because they don’t have much. And there are others who give $1,000 and it’s an insult to the Lord because He has blessed them abundantly so, and yet they aren’t reciprocating.”


“Jesus called attention to a poor widow by saying the following:

And He looked up (our Lord was in the covered colonnade of that part of the Temple which was open to the Jewish women; here was the treasury with its thirteen boxes on the wall, where the people could give offerings), and saw the rich men casting their gifts into the treasury (implying that they were making a show of their gifts, desiring to impress the people by the amount, etc.).

And He saw also a certain poor widow casting in thither two mites (was probably worth something less than a U.S. dollar in 2003 purchasing power).

“And He said, Of a truth I say unto you (presents a new concept of giving), that this poor widow has cast in more than they all (the term ‘poor widow’ means that she worked very hard for what little she received) :”


“For all these have of their abundance cast in unto the offerings of God (means that they had much left, constituting very little given, at least in the Eyes of God): but she of her penury (poverty) has cast in all the living that she had (spoke of her gift, as small as it was, being larger than all others combined because she gave all; God judges our giving by many factors; motive plays very heavily into the account)” (Lk. 21:1-4).

JSM




PAUL AND TITHE

Even though the statement we will now give, as it regards Paul, is not directly about tithing but rather the superiority of the New Covenant over the Old, still, the point is made regarding tithing continuing under the New Covenant.

I believe that Paul wrote Hebrews. He said:

“But he (Melchisedec) whose descent is not counted from them (from Israel) received Tithes of Abraham, and blessed him who had the Promises. (This proclaims the fact that Melchisedec blessed Abraham, despite the fact that it was Abraham to whom the great Promises of God had been given. The only way one could be greater than Abraham is that he would be a Type of Christ, which Melchisedec was.)

And without all contradiction (means that what he is saying cannot be contradicted) the less (Abraham) is blessed of the better (Melchisedec, who was a Type of Christ; this has Paul saying that Christ is better than any other system, and is the only One Who can properly Bless).

And here men who die receive Tithes (refers to the Levitical Priesthood, which, in fact, was still being carried on at the time Paul wrote these words); but there he receives them (refers back to the Passage in Genesis where Melchisedec is recorded as having received Tithes), of whom it is witnessed that he lives. (This refers to the Eternal Priesthood of Christ, of which Melchisedec was the Type.)


And as I may so say, Levi also, who receives Tithes (because Tithes were paid to Levi, i.e., ‘the Priestly Order,’ in no way means this was the superior Order), paid Tithes in Abraham. (This struck a telling blow in Paul’s argument regarding the superiority of the Priestly Order of Melchisedec. If Abraham paid Tithes to Melchisedec [which he was instructed by the Lord to do], and Abraham is the father of the Jewish people [meaning Levi was in his loins], then Levi also paid Tithes to Melchisedec. This placed the whole of the Jewish system as second to that of Christ.)

For he (Levi) was yet in the loins of his father (Abraham), when Melchisedec met him. (This makes the New Covenant better than the Old, which is the argument of the Book of Hebrews) (Heb. 7:6-10).”


JSM
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
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#78
“THE BLESSINGS OF TITHING

The old adage “you can’t outgive God,” to be sure, is one hundred percent true.

The worst thing that a Christian can do, when finances are tight, and he’s wondering how in the world he’s going to pay all the bills, is to say in his heart, “I cannot afford to give anything to the Lord this month,” etc. That is a big, big mistake.

When the Holy Spirit was to give a dissertation on “giving,” as it regards the Work of God to the Early Church, through Paul he used as an example the poorest Churches of all, those in Macedonia. The following is what Paul said:


“Moreover, Brethren, we do you to witness of the Grace of God bestowed on the Churches of Macedonia (northern Greece);

How that in a great trial of affliction (Macedonia was greatly impoverished due to political and military problems) the abundance of their joy and their deep poverty abounded unto the riches of their liberality. (Despite their deep poverty, they gave liberally to the Work of God.)

For to their power, I bear record (Paul knew their financial circumstances), yes, and beyond their power they were willing of themselves (they gave beyond what it seemed they could give);

Praying us with much entreaty that we would receive the gift (knowing their impoverished circumstances, Paul didn’t want to take the gift, but they insisted), and take upon us the fellowship of the Ministering to the Saints. (Paul was receiving an Offering from all the Churches for the poor Saints at Jerusalem.)


And this they did (gave far beyond what seemed to be their ability), not as we hoped (meaning much greater than he had hoped), but first gave their own selves to the Lord (this means it was the Will of the Lord for them to do what they did) , and unto us by the Will of God. (They had great confidence in Paul and his Ministry. As we see here, the Holy Spirit used Macedonia as an example) (II Cor. 8:1-5).

The Holy Spirit used these impoverished Churches as an example, and for reason. It addresses itself perfectly to the Christian who thinks he cannot afford to give to God. My advice is whatever else we have to take off the list, above all, put the Lord first. This is the only way to get out of debt, to get one’s feet on solid financial footing, put God first. Tithing should be a minimum, with offerings given on top of that as we are able to do so, or else the Lord speaks to us about a certain amount.”


“Paul then wrote:

But this I say, He which sows sparingly shall reap also sparingly (if we give little to the Lord, He will bless little); and he which sows bountifully shall reap also bountifully. (If we give bountifully, He will bless bountifully. This is a Promise of the Lord) (II Cor. 9:6).

I cannot help but believe that the Lord blessed the Macedonians abundantly. But there is something else about this that we must understand.

It’s not necessarily the amount that one gives, but it’s how much we have left. There are some people who could only give $25 in today’s money, but to God it is a bountiful amount, and simply because they don’t have much. And there are others who give $1,000 and it’s an insult to the Lord because He has blessed them abundantly so, and yet they aren’t reciprocating.”


“Jesus called attention to a poor widow by saying the following:

And He looked up (our Lord was in the covered colonnade of that part of the Temple which was open to the Jewish women; here was the treasury with its thirteen boxes on the wall, where the people could give offerings), and saw the rich men casting their gifts into the treasury (implying that they were making a show of their gifts, desiring to impress the people by the amount, etc.).

And He saw also a certain poor widow casting in thither two mites (was probably worth something less than a U.S. dollar in 2003 purchasing power).

“And He said, Of a truth I say unto you (presents a new concept of giving), that this poor widow has cast in more than they all (the term ‘poor widow’ means that she worked very hard for what little she received) :”


“For all these have of their abundance cast in unto the offerings of God (means that they had much left, constituting very little given, at least in the Eyes of God): but she of her penury (poverty) has cast in all the living that she had (spoke of her gift, as small as it was, being larger than all others combined because she gave all; God judges our giving by many factors; motive plays very heavily into the account)” (Lk. 21:1-4).

JSM




The widow should have been the beneficiary of charity. The Pharisees were condemned for ripping off widows and their own parents too.

Jesusa looked up and saw the rich putting their gifts into the offering box,2and he saw a poor widow put in two small copper coins.b 3And he said, “Truly, I tell you, this poor widow has put in more than all of them. 4For they all contributed out of their abundance, but she out of her poverty put in all she had to live on.”
Jesus Foretells Destruction of the Temple
5And while some were speaking of the temple, how it was adorned with noble stones and offerings, he said, 6“As for these things that you see, the days will come when there will not be left here one stone upon another that will not be thrown down.”
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
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#79
PAUL AND TITHE

Even though the statement we will now give, as it regards Paul, is not directly about tithing but rather the superiority of the New Covenant over the Old, still, the point is made regarding tithing continuing under the New Covenant.

I believe that Paul wrote Hebrews. He said:

“But he (Melchisedec) whose descent is not counted from them (from Israel) received Tithes of Abraham, and blessed him who had the Promises. (This proclaims the fact that Melchisedec blessed Abraham, despite the fact that it was Abraham to whom the great Promises of God had been given. The only way one could be greater than Abraham is that he would be a Type of Christ, which Melchisedec was.)

And without all contradiction (means that what he is saying cannot be contradicted) the less (Abraham) is blessed of the better (Melchisedec, who was a Type of Christ; this has Paul saying that Christ is better than any other system, and is the only One Who can properly Bless).

And here men who die receive Tithes (refers to the Levitical Priesthood, which, in fact, was still being carried on at the time Paul wrote these words); but there he receives them (refers back to the Passage in Genesis where Melchisedec is recorded as having received Tithes), of whom it is witnessed that he lives. (This refers to the Eternal Priesthood of Christ, of which Melchisedec was the Type.)


And as I may so say, Levi also, who receives Tithes (because Tithes were paid to Levi, i.e., ‘the Priestly Order,’ in no way means this was the superior Order), paid Tithes in Abraham. (This struck a telling blow in Paul’s argument regarding the superiority of the Priestly Order of Melchisedec. If Abraham paid Tithes to Melchisedec [which he was instructed by the Lord to do], and Abraham is the father of the Jewish people [meaning Levi was in his loins], then Levi also paid Tithes to Melchisedec. This placed the whole of the Jewish system as second to that of Christ.)

For he (Levi) was yet in the loins of his father (Abraham), when Melchisedec met him. (This makes the New Covenant better than the Old, which is the argument of the Book of Hebrews) (Heb. 7:6-10).”


JSM
There were all kinds of very specific sacrificial requirements in the OT. Zero.....zero.....zero.....are specified in the NT. All offerings are freewill according to the degree that God has prospered you. Which of couse means not giving up the rent money to the "tithe" if it comes to that.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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#80
Even though the statement we will now give, as it regards Paul, is not directly about tithing but rather the superiority of the New Covenant over the Old
You should have ended there.

still, the point is made regarding tithing continuing under the New Covenant.
No, it isn't. That's eisegesis.

Here is what Hebrews ACTUALLY says, without all the Swaggart (mis)interpretation:

But the one whose genealogy is not traced from them collected a tenth from Abraham and blessed the one who had the promises. But without any dispute the lesser is blessed by the greater. In this case mortal men receive tithes, but in that case one receives them, of whom it is witnessed that he lives on. And, so to speak, through Abraham even Levi, who received tithes, paid tithes, for he was still in the loins of his father when Melchizedek met him.

This passage is talking about the person and stature of Melchizedek, not Jesus. It mentions tithing only in connection with the nature of the two priesthoods and says NOTHING about tithing under the new covenant.