To Be Born Again Is To Be Resurrected!

homwardbound · Aug 14, 2013

We are also told that mortality must put on immortality. Well we can only do this if we are mortal and in the flesh body. After we die we are absent from the body, 2 Cor 5:8.

Wrong? Wrong! Paul wanted to attain this resurrection in this life. He had to tell His students that He had not attained this yet. Ask yourselves why?

Now the same mind that formed the thoughts in Philippians 3:10-12 asserted that His students were "risen from the dead" in Colossians 3:1. Look at Phil 3:9.

Php 3:9 ¶ And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

Paul wanted to be found in Christ (New Covenant and present time) and in right standing with God. But not because of the law. This is going to require that you think outside of tradition and actually entertain a new concept.

That concept is this - the Old Covenant said to make a sacrifice to be forgiven. The law says the same thing in the New Covenant. Obtain forgiveness through an appeal to God through a sacrifice, the difference is that the sacrifice changed to Jesus Christ.

How can a person be in right standing with God according to the law in the New Covenant? Simple - After a believer sins they confess their sin to Jesus and He forgives them, right.

Paul did not want right standing with God based on confessing the sin to Jesus after He sinned. He wanted to abstain from sin. This is the righteousness from God by faith. Not a righteousness or right standing that is conferred upon a person after they have sinned and then been forgiven. We can receive a right standing with God which Paul refers to as the "righteousness from God which is by faith" which keeps us from sinning. That is what Paul wanted.

So the conclusion I am trying to lead you to is that, a person is actually rises from the dead when they come to Christ.
The title of this post is very accurate. Is this a physical resurrection? I don't understand this.

But that does not take anything away from the fact that I do know that abstaining from sin is the resurrection from the condition of being dead in sins and transgressions. Christians progress in this resurrection all of their earthly lives. It is possible to refrain from sinning while in this life. Permanently refrain? Paul had not attained to this yet - but He kept on trying because He believed it was possible.

Jesus abstained from sin in the flesh as an example to us. So do we have the ability (grace, titus 2:11-12) to follow Him?
I will let you answer that. Scripturally my answer is "yes", it is possible to abstain from sin. Unfortunately many people do not even try to stop sinning because their spiritual so-called leaders tell them it is not possible, to the shame of those teachers.

This is the resurrection from the dead as Phil 3:9-12 state.

Most people are so encumbered by traditional thought that they cannot even entertain an independent thought. Who actually figured out these traditional concepts. We have no idea, and yet we cling to the conclusions of commentaries.

Brian[/QUOTE]

Brian, praying you see this.
The doorway to life is to die to self, and world daily in Christ at the death of Christ.
The deeper you go, the deeper one goes into their own self death with Christ on the cross the deeper one sees their new life in Christ.
And then:
1 John 4:19 We love him, because he first loved us.

and the deeper we go we see
[h=3]Ephesians 3:17-19[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]17 [/SUP]that Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, [SUP]18 [/SUP]may be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;
[SUP]19 [/SUP]and to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.

To the point that we are knowingly right here and now
Galatians 2:20
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

And it is now no longer "I" who liveth, but Christ in my stead, we are no more than vessels to be used by God, if we are willing and trust God, 100% willing to be co-crucified with Christ at the cross where by his death we are made this:

[h=3]Colossians 1:21-23[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]21 [/SUP]And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled [SUP]22 [/SUP]in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: [SUP]23 [/SUP]if ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

So do you see and believe God to have done this for you and willing for God to use you as God sees fit?
It is between God and you.
Love God's way to you Brother

homwardbound · Aug 14, 2013

john832 said:

Most confuse being begotten (we are begotten now) and being born (born in the resurrection). In a discussion on another site I quoted this...

Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
Joh 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

And then asked if he were invisible. To my surprise he said yes. I then suggested (according to verse 6) that he take the hatpin test. He didn't want to do that one.

Paul tells us when we are born again...

1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

1Co 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
1Co 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
1Co 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
1Co 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
1Co 15:48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
1Co 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

And here again, I invite anyone who thinks they have inherited the Kingdom to take the hatpin test.

1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

We now have the downpayment (earnest) on eternal life...

2Co 1:22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Notice the "until" in there? God looks at this as a done deal...

Isa 46:9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,
Isa 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

In God's mind, it is as good as done.

My old man flesh is dead and am alive in flesh that God by god's Spirit holds alive as he did in the day of Pentecost. Now you can go ahead and promote flesh alive as in the sin nature all you want by a pin test.
Again God is the one that holds me alive, not me.
Thanks for your take, God prefers to have God's take, for the flesh today is still at war against the Spirit of God
Galatians 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Galatians 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would
Galatians 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

Ariel82 · Aug 14, 2013

There is a difference between being BORN again and being resurrected. You are born again in the Spirit.

Resurrection speaks of the body. Paul spoke of people who falsely taught that resurrection has already happened:

2 Timothy 2:17-19

New King James Version (NKJV)

[SUP]17 [/SUP]And their message will spread like cancer. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of this sort, [SUP]18 [/SUP]who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past; and they overthrow the faith of some. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: “The Lord knows those who are His,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of Christ[SUP][a][/SUP] depart from iniquity.”

blurring lines seems to be a favorite pastime of many....

homwardbound · Aug 14, 2013

brmicke said:

How about the realization that none of are or ever will ne perfect in and of self whether we believe or not.
To be perfect is in Christ and Christ alone, back at the beginning with the death
[h=3]Colossians 1:22[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]22 [/SUP]in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

God is the one that makes us perfect, and to try to stop sin in anyway only brings death
Galatians 6:8
For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting
Stand outside the camp on the side of God, past the picket line of flesh, that has wormed its way into God's way and caused man to work at being good, when only God is good. Now being in God is to trust God to do in you what you have not been able to do in self. For God is the only one that can do this, if we all will raise our little white flags and concede to the war of the flesh trying to be good and be on God's side who gives you the victory through praise and worship of God, by the victory of Christ, starting at the death for us each and then new life is revealed as the deeper one gets into the death of self

homwardbound · Aug 14, 2013

Ariel82 said:

To be born again here is to be born again in Spirit of God and this is by the resurrection of Christ.
Bodily resurrection is not as of yet
Romans 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

This is why Paul has said many times to be dead to flesh, Romans 8 from 1 on is great in revealing the diffearance of flesh and Spirit, along with in John how is the only way God today can be worshipped

John 4:23
But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
John 4:22-24 (in Context) John 4 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
John 4:23-25 (in Context) John 4 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
John 14:17 even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
John 14:16-18 (in Context) John 14 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
John 16:12-14 (in Context) John 16 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations

joeyruready · Aug 14, 2013

?????

I do not even understand the questions in this post. What does scripture say? IF it were a physical resurrection to be born again then these verses couldn't fit.

[h=3]1 Peter 1:22-23[/h]

[SUP]22 [/SUP]Now that you have purified yourselves by obeying the truth so that you have sincere love for each other, love one another deeply, from the heart. [SUP]23 [/SUP]For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God

Now that YOU have purified yourselves...for YOU HAVE BEEN BORN AGAIN.
I am fairly certain he wasn't writing to dead people. Yet he speaks in past tense...they aren't dead yet he says HAVE BEEN born again. So either agree with scripture or go your own way. I choose to Worship God.

Ariel82 · Aug 14, 2013

romans 8

[SUP]22 [/SUP]For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now. [SUP]23 [/SUP]Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body. [SUP]24 [/SUP]For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? [SUP]25 [/SUP]But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance.

Wall · Aug 14, 2013

joeyruready said:

Just read the whole chapter 1Peter1

Being "born again" happens when we are all changed in the twinkling of an eye. Thats when our corruptible puts on the incorruptible. This only makes sense because we are givin new bodies before entering the kingdom

PHIL.3 [20] For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:[21] Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

1PETER1
[4] To AN INHERITANCE INCORRUPTIBLE, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
[5] Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto SALVATION READY TO BE REVEALED IN THE LAST TIME.
[9] Receiving the END OF YOUR FAITH, EVEN THE SALVATION OF YOUR SOULS.[10] Of which salvation the prophets have inquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
[13] Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and HOPE TO THE END FOR THE GRACE THAT IS TO BE BROUGHT UNTO YOU AT THE REVELATION OF JESUS CHRIST;
[23] BEING BORN AGAIN, NOT OF CORRUPTIBLE SEED, BUT OF INCORRUPTIBLE, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

1COR.15
[42] So also is the resurrection of the dead. IT IS SOWN IN CORRUPTION; IT IS RAISED IN INCORRUPTION:
[43] It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
[44] It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. THERE IS A NATURAL BODY, AND THERE IS A SPIRITUAL BODY. ........
[49] And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. Phil.3{21}
[50] Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; NEITHER DOTH CORRUPTION INHERIT INCORRUPTION.
[51] Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but WE SHALL ALL BE CHANGED,
[52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
[53] FOR THIS CORRUPTIBLE MUST PUT ON INCORRUPTION, and this mortal must put on immortality.

1Peter1 and 1Cor.15 are speaking of the same exact event

Wall · Aug 14, 2013

starfield said:

Yeah, I believe these things take place before we croak

MATTHEW 4 [16] The people which sat in darkness saw great light; and to them which sat in the region and shadow of death light is sprung up. [17] From that time JESUS BEGAN TO PREACH, AND TO SAY, REPENT: FOR THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN IS AT HAND.

Jesus says you must first repent before entering the kingdom

JOHN 3 [5] Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of WATER and of the SPIRIT, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

MATTHEW 3 [11] I indeed baptize you with WATER UNTO REPENTANCE: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with THE HOLY GHOST, and with fire:

you 1st repent of your sins and then receive the Holy Spirit. These things must happen before we enter the kingdom

john832 · Aug 14, 2013

starfield said:

Now quote the next three verses...

Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

You are either flesh or spirit. Wanna take the hatpin test? You are flesh, with the down payment of the spirit that will be brought to fruition at the resurrection...

2Co 1:22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

In both cases the word for earnest is...

G728
ἀῤῥαβών
arrhabōn
Thayer Definition:
1) an earnest
1a) money which in purchases is given as a pledge or downpayment that the full amount will subsequently be paid
Part of Speech: noun masculine
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: of Hebrew origin H6162
Citing in TDNT: 1:475, 80

Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
Joh 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

And I'll ask you now, are you invisible? No? Being begotten (having the earnest-the down payment) is different than being born. My wife tells me there is a huge difference between begettal and birth and I believe her.

Blain · Aug 14, 2013

Do you know what I do not understand? The bible itself is like the veins in our body, there are many many veins as there are also just as many if not more scriptures. However Our veins cannot contradict each other or our body is in trouble. So the bibles verses are all connected to each other just as our veins are, but the problem is that people pick and choose scriptures to fit their beliefs.

I do not understand why the bible causes so much disunity as that was not it's intent. Jesus spoke of what it means to be born again yet people still do not understand. and as for being resurrected who is to say it is not a physical and spiritual thing? Can God not do all things?

The problem is not the bible nor it is it what the scriptures say about this subject. It's us. How are we to ever understand the hidden meanings and secrets in the word and in God's heart if we are not able to have a breakable and teachable heart? I have not seen many who are willing to change their views or beliefs even if they are kindly taught their beliefs or views are wrong. Do you really want to know the answer to this question? Go before God and put down what you think you know about this subject and be willing for God to teach you the true meaning even if it mean you were wrong. God does not use just the strong what he seeks more is someone who is willing.

Are we willing to set aside our beliefs and loosen our hearts in order to be taught? Or are we so steadfast in our beliefs that we refuse to listen to others and we are right no matter what? I admit I still require much maturity in christ, but I have found the secret to knowing what it takes to know the deeper things of God. even though as of right now I do not know that much of it, many of you have the Potential to do this.

john832 · Aug 14, 2013

Blain said:

Do you know what I do not understand? The bible itself is like the veins in our body, there are many many veins as there are also just as many if not more scriptures. However Our veins cannot contradict each other or our body is in trouble. So the bibles verses are all connected to each other just as our veins are, but the problem is that people pick and choose scriptures to fit their beliefs.

I do not understand why the bible causes so much disunity as that was not it's intent. Jesus spoke of what it means to be born again yet people still do not understand. and as for being resurrected who is to say it is not a physical and spiritual thing? Can God not do all things?

The problem is not the bible nor it is it what the scriptures say about this subject. It's us. How are we to ever understand the hidden meanings and secrets in the word and in God's heart if we are not able to have a breakable and teachable heart? I have not seen many who are willing to change their views or beliefs even if they are kindly taught their beliefs or views are wrong. Do you really want to know the answer to this question? Go before God and put down what you think you know about this subject and be willing for God to teach you the true meaning even if it mean you were wrong. God does not use just the strong what he seeks more is someone who is willing.

Are we willing to set aside our beliefs and loosen our hearts in order to be taught? Or are we so steadfast in our beliefs that we refuse to listen to others and we are right no matter what? I admit I still require much maturity in christ, but I have found the secret to knowing what it takes to know the deeper things of God. even though as of right now I do not know that much of it, many of you have the Potential to do this.

OK, I will tell you why there are many opinions, the answer is not popular...

Mat 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
Mat 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

It is not given to everyone to understand at this time.

livingepistle · Aug 14, 2013

Blain said:

To be born again requires not a change of mind not spirit but a change of heart... Often times it takes us to be at our lowest point to have this change of heart and be born again. it isn't an automatic full blown change of the heart but there is a spark in the change and it takes the ripple effect. day by day if we are born again our hearts become closer and closer to his own and eventually there is a connection made and we begin love others as he does and we see with a new pair of eyes.

This change happened to me after a while when I finally became a christian, and this connection of the hearts defines my faith because this connection is when the lord and I fell madly in love with each other. the speed of how this happens however depends on the person, for me it happened quite fast even though I am not sure why

In your statement you often refer to "our heart/your heart/heart"; please define "heart" in context to the OP.

4enlightment · Aug 14, 2013

GOI said:

Is born again a mental or physical condition? Many Christians are taught that born again is a change of mind, is it?

I will start off with this verse from Peter then I will head to Jesus conversation with Nicodemus.

1 Peter 1:22-24 KJV
[22] Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: [23] Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. [24] For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:

Being born again of a incorruptible seed? Everyone one who is flesh is corrupt!
At the first resurrection or judgement day is when some and all will remove this corruptible flesh

Romans 12:2Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.

livingepistle · Aug 14, 2013

Newness of Life and Newness of Body

The following statement speaks to my understanding and agreement with the OP:

Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. ~ Romans 6:4

One of the more frequent comparisons the apostle Paul makes is the fact that our salvation is like that of Christ’s being raised from the dead. This means that salvation is actually a resurrection, and it makes us into completely new creatures:

Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new. ~ 2 Corinthians 5:17

We are not literally crucified, but we are spiritually joined to the death and resurrection of Christ when during salvation, and the saving is God’s part. Our part is to walk in newness of life as we live out what God has accomplished in us.

Still, we are enabled by God to live in newness of life “by the glory of the Father.” It is the power He used when He raised Christ from the dead:

And what is the exceeding greatness of His power toward us who believe, according to the working of His mighty power which He worked in Christ when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places. ~ Ephesians 1:19-20

What gives us newness of life is the resurrection power of God. This is why we should always “reckon ourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord” (Rom. 6:11). Our part is to reckon, or consider, that it is a spiritual fact that we have died and been raised with Christ to walk in newness of life. As we do so, we are being transformed by the renewing of our minds (Rom. 12:2), and that’s what makes it a reality in our life experience. Newness of Life | Called To Greatness

We as Christians shall; although delayed, receive new bodies also:

1Co 15:53"For this incorruptible must put on incorruption. For this corruptible body must give place to the incorruptible body; the mortal frame to an immortal one. One must be "put off", the other "put on" and continues in II Corinthians 5th chapter with greater detail.

2 Corinthians 5
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
5 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven: 3 if so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked. 4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life. 5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit. 6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: 7 (for we walk by faith, not by sight

8 we are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. 9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

The scriptures clearly support and equate the "new birth" experience to that of being buried and resurrected just as Christ/Messiah.

<I Enjoyed This OP>

Blain · Aug 14, 2013

livingepistle said:

I speak of heart often because heart has much to do with everything of God. We cannot understand God's word without the holy spirit and heart for the Lord correct? think of this also, God's heart is deep and rich in love and mercy and power and majesty. David sought after the Lords heart and the bible even says God searches for one who is after his own heart. Our hearts define our faith, our hearts hold our true intentions and God searches our hearts daily. Where our hearts lie has a lot to do with the OP, because we cannot fully understand things of God without a heart that seeks these things for the right reasons nor can we if our hearts are not right with God. Heart has everything to do with faith and God

livingepistle · Aug 14, 2013

Blain said:

I speak of heart often because heart has much to do with everything of God. We cannot understand God's word without the holy spirit and heart for the Lord correct? think of this also, God's heart is deep and rich in love and mercy and power and majesty. David sought after the Lords heart and the bible even says God searches for one who is after his own heart. Our hearts define our faith, our hearts hold our true intentions and God searches our hearts daily. Where our hearts lie has a lot to do with the OP, because we cannot fully understand things of God without a heart that seeks these things for the right reasons nor can we if our hearts are not right with God. Heart has everything to do with faith and God

Now I understand and thank you for explaining.

marrion · Aug 14, 2013

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, “Except a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit”.(John 3:5-6)[/FONT]
According to the Scriptures, “ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God”. And because we are ALL sinners by virtue of our natural birth - we are all under the curse of death. We needed a Saviour, one born by a Virgin birth and not by sexual conception, to bypass the curse. Jesus is that Kinsman Redeemer, a Perfect One, not born of sexual union but God's own pure blood (hemoglobin and egg) transplanted in the womb of a virgin. Jesus is the[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Just One who laid down His life as a Perfect Sacrifice (in our place) to satisfy God’s righteous Law, to justify us, and to redeem us back to God again. Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour did that for us. “And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in [your] mind by wicked works, yet now hath He reconciled. In the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight” (Col. 1:21-22).[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]THREE STAGES OF THE NEW BIRTH [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Just like the natural birth, the New Birth undergoes three stages – water, blood and spirit.

When a woman gives birth to a child, the first thing that comes forth is water, then blood, then life (spirit). Being born again is a similar process with three stages: (1) Justification by Water, (2) Sanctification by the Blood, and (3) Baptism of the Holy Spirit. These three consists the New Birth in a person.

The same process goes even for the earth's redemption. The earth was baptized in water in the days of Noah. It was then sanctified when the blood of Jesus Christ was shed on Calvary's hill. It will be baptized with the Holy Fire of God during the Battle of Armageddon, before God can finally dwell on it during the Millennium.

Just the same way, before God can ever dwell upon a person through the baptism of the Holy Ghost (man- being a temple of the Holy Ghost) that man needs to undergo these three stages. Justification, sanctification, and Holy Ghost Baptism. God will not dwell upon a filthy, unconverted sinner. Man needs to repent of his sins, be forgiven, be cleansed, be justified, be sanctified, before the Holy Ghost, can ever dwell upon him.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]FIRST STAGE - JUSTIFICATION [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The first work of God’s grace in the sinners life is Justification.

Romans 3:24 tells us that we are “justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus”. Therefore, God sovereignly and freely justifies the sinner by calling him/her by the preaching of the Word to acknowledge that they’re sinners, and to repent and receive Christ as their personal Saviour and Lord. Through the blood of His own Son, God looks beyond our sin, not laying it to our charge, and offers us (free of charge) salvation and deliverance from the power and influence of Satan and the old sinful nature of our flesh - this is Justification. He declares us righteous in Jesus Christ, and through the Gospel He invites us to accept [take possession of] His free gift.

Justification by faith requires believing the Word, “Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God. “Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth” (I Peter 1:22). Then, Repentance and Water Baptism must follow it. Acts 2:30 states: “Repent, everyone of you and be baptized in the Name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”

Repentance is “sorrow for sin”, “a complete turning away from sin”, and such a “regret over one’s sins so as to decide to change one’s ways’”... “laying aside all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.” (James 1:21-22).

Scripturally, repentance has three main elements: (1)conviction, (2)contrition and the (3)desire to be changed.

Conviction is God’s red flag of warning us that we are going in the wrong direction. Being born in sin, we continue on in sin, doing that which is right in our own eyes without due regard for what God requires in His Word. Therefore, God, through the preaching of the Word, brings conviction that we need to change our ways to line up with His Word. 1 John 1:8-10 states, “If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. “

Contrition is a “sincere sorrow”, a godly sorrow and brokenness for our sins (2nd Cor. 7:10). The Bible says, “The Lord is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.” (Psalms 34:18). Contrition is a sincere regret over past sins and an earnest, humble desire to walk in a new path of righteousness, according to the instructions laid out in God’s Word. Contrition includes ‘humbling’ ourselves to God’s ways. When we stand at the Cross of Calvary and see what our sins cost God, our hearts should be broken and contrite - humbled; and we should cry out like the Publican cried, “God, be merciful to me a sinner” (Luke 18:13). The Bible tells us that when Peter considered how he had ignored and denied the Lord three times, he went out and wept bitterly because of his sin (Matthew 26:75).

The Desire To Be Changed: This is the third element of “Repentance”. It is the desire for God to change your thought pattern, change your attitude, change your ways, change your motives and objectives in life, to conform to His ways and His will for you. In 2nd. Corinthians 7:10 the Bible says, “For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation.”

SECOND STAGE- SANCTIFICATION[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The second work of God’s grace in the sinner’s life is Sanctification.

The Bible says, “For this is the will of God, [even] your sanctification... that every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour;” (1st. Thess. 4:3-4) “God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:”. (2nd Thess. 2:13).

Sanctification is that grace whereby, at the time after repentance, the vessel of the individual’s life is “cleansed” from all past sins and unbelief and he/she is “set aside for service”. In the experience of sanctification, the individual feels swept, clean, fresh and garnished. All the bad habits and vices are being taken away slowly and the individual’s mind is set towards a life of holiness by the Holy Spirit. The principle of sin [by which we previously lived] is cast out. It’s an absolutely wonderful experience, creating in us the desire to always live a holy and sanctified life for the Lord - always doing what the Word [Bible] says.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]THIRD STAGE - BAPTISM OF THE HOLY SPIRIT[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The third work of God’s Grace in the sinners life is the Baptism of the Holy Ghost.

In Acts 1:8 it says, “But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me”.
From these verses we conclude that Jesus Christ alone is the “Baptizer” with the Holy Ghost; and this Baptism is a Baptism of “Power”. It is a portion of the life of God coming into the believer to guide them into ALL Truth (John 16:13) and to give them power over all the power of the enemy and to be witnesses of Him and His Word. We can find that even though Apostle Peter was called of Jesus Christ and was given the keys to the kingdom, yet we read in the Bible that Peter still denied Jesus Christ three times before the cock crowed. That is because Peter did not have the Holy Ghost yet during that time and he still have to wait for the Day of Pentecost in order to receive the Promise of "fire" baptism in his soul. So we can conclude from here that a man can be baptized in water and be sanctified, yet without the Holy Ghost baptism, he can still deny our God and compromise with His Word. We need the Holy Ghost baptism in order for us to be "more than conquerors" in Christ Jesus. The Holy Ghost is also that "oil" that makes the wise virgins qualified to go into the Wedding Supper of the Lamb. Those that are without the Holy Ghost will be left behind in the Tribulation Period, weeping, wailing and gnashing their teeth.

The Holy Spirit is our power over the world (worldliness), the flesh (self) and the Devil. He enables us to live daily for God - making the Word flesh in us. It is the “law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus which hath made me free from the law of sin and death”. (Romans 8:2). The Baptism of the Holy Ghost continues the work of Sanctification, separating us daily, from the world and the things of the world. The Holy Spirit (in us) creates in us a “hunger and thirst for the righteousness of God”.

The Baptism of the Holy Ghost seals us into the mystical Body of Christ. The Bible says, “For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.” (1 Corinthians 12:13). In the Baptism of the Holy Ghost the believer thus becomes the “Temple of the Living God”. 1st Corinthians 6:19 says, “What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost [which is] in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?” The Holy Ghost goes right into the soul, moves the old nature aside and takes control, governing our lives, not according to the dictates of the old fleshly nature of our natural birth, but according to the dictates of our new nature. Now, our lives become living epistles of the Word of God - read and known of all men (II Corinthians 3:2-3).

The Holy Ghost will also make the promises of God in Mark 16;17-18 a reality which state this, “And these SIGNS shall follow them that believe; In my Name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.”

Every true Christian ought to undergo these three stages of the New Birth for Jesus Christ Himself said that “except a man be born again, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]If you have the Baptism of the Holy Ghost you will LOVE the Lord; believe ALL His Word and with His help, OBEY it, and you will manifest the “fruits of the Spirit”. Don’t try to have any sensation or anything to take the place of the Holy Spirit. When the new birth has come, you are changed. You don’t have to do anything to prove it, your life proves it. As you walk, you are filled with love, peace, long-suffering, gentleness, meekness, patience, that’s what you are. And the whole world will see the reflection of Jesus Christ in you. (Galatians 5:22-23). Look at the kind of person you were and then look at what you are now - see if there’s a change - see if you have indeed received this “LIFE-CHANGING experience” of the Baptism of the Holy Ghost - an experience that makes you “spiritually minded”, not just “religiously inclined”. Check up on your relationship with God to see if you put more emphasis on the WORD of God than you do the church you attend; see if you really believe the WORD more than you do a man-made dogma or creed; see if you are really LIVING every day for the Glory of God, giving Him the pre-eminence in ALL that you do. [/FONT]

Blain · Aug 14, 2013

Wait I was never baptized by water, so then why do i have a relationship with God? I know I was baptized by the holy spirit but never water.

marrion · Aug 14, 2013

Thats great that you have a relationship with God without being baptized in water.The bible actually speaks of people who were filled with the holy spirit without actually being baptized yet but they then got baptized in water after they were instructed by the apostles.Jesus himself was baptized by John the baptist and the reason was that he wanted to fulfill all righteousness.

To Be Born Again Is To Be Resurrected!

Senior Member

Senior Member

Ariel82

Guest

Senior Member

Senior Member

Banned

Ariel82

Guest

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

The Word Weaver

Senior Member

livingepistle

Guest

Banned

livingepistle

Guest

The Word Weaver

livingepistle

Guest

marrion

Guest

The Word Weaver

marrion

Guest