Hi Hoffco - I will not comment on something I do not understand. I will tell you why I don't understand this.
Because the scripture seems to indicate that our body would be dead without the Spirit of God indwelling us, I confess I don't understand this. I know the common understanding but it is disjointed. This is the misdirection I spoke of.
Php 3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.
We know Jesus will change our bodies from this vile one to one like His. I think we are agreed on this as this is a traditional position. Most think they know for certain that this change happens after physical death. It is comforting to be certain, I am not certain of this however because of Romans 8:10 and 11.
Ro 8:10 ¶ And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
Ro 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
Because the scripture seems to indicate that our body would be dead without the Spirit of God indwelling us, I confess I don't understand this. I know the common understanding but it is disjointed. This is the misdirection I spoke of.
Php 3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.
We know Jesus will change our bodies from this vile one to one like His. I think we are agreed on this as this is a traditional position. Most think they know for certain that this change happens after physical death. It is comforting to be certain, I am not certain of this however because of Romans 8:10 and 11.
Ro 8:10 ¶ And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
Ro 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
Wrong? Wrong! Paul wanted to attain this resurrection in this life. He had to tell His students that He had not attained this yet. Ask yourselves why?
Now the same mind that formed the thoughts in Philippians 3:10-12 asserted that His students were "risen from the dead" in Colossians 3:1. Look at Phil 3:9.
Php 3:9 ¶ And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
Paul wanted to be found in Christ (New Covenant and present time) and in right standing with God. But not because of the law. This is going to require that you think outside of tradition and actually entertain a new concept.
That concept is this - the Old Covenant said to make a sacrifice to be forgiven. The law says the same thing in the New Covenant. Obtain forgiveness through an appeal to God through a sacrifice, the difference is that the sacrifice changed to Jesus Christ.
How can a person be in right standing with God according to the law in the New Covenant? Simple - After a believer sins they confess their sin to Jesus and He forgives them, right.
Paul did not want right standing with God based on confessing the sin to Jesus after He sinned. He wanted to abstain from sin. This is the righteousness from God by faith. Not a righteousness or right standing that is conferred upon a person after they have sinned and then been forgiven. We can receive a right standing with God which Paul refers to as the "righteousness from God which is by faith" which keeps us from sinning. That is what Paul wanted.
So the conclusion I am trying to lead you to is that, a person is actually rises from the dead when they come to Christ.
The title of this post is very accurate. Is this a physical resurrection? I don't understand this.
But that does not take anything away from the fact that I do know that abstaining from sin is the resurrection from the condition of being dead in sins and transgressions. Christians progress in this resurrection all of their earthly lives. It is possible to refrain from sinning while in this life. Permanently refrain? Paul had not attained to this yet - but He kept on trying because He believed it was possible.
Jesus abstained from sin in the flesh as an example to us. So do we have the ability (grace, titus 2:11-12) to follow Him?
I will let you answer that. Scripturally my answer is "yes", it is possible to abstain from sin. Unfortunately many people do not even try to stop sinning because their spiritual so-called leaders tell them it is not possible, to the shame of those teachers.
This is the resurrection from the dead as Phil 3:9-12 state.
Most people are so encumbered by traditional thought that they cannot even entertain an independent thought. Who actually figured out these traditional concepts. We have no idea, and yet we cling to the conclusions of commentaries.
Brian[/QUOTE]
Brian, praying you see this.
The doorway to life is to die to self, and world daily in Christ at the death of Christ.
The deeper you go, the deeper one goes into their own self death with Christ on the cross the deeper one sees their new life in Christ.
And then:
1 John 4:19 We love him, because he first loved us.
and the deeper we go we see
[h=3]Ephesians 3:17-19[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]that Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, [SUP]18 [/SUP]may be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;
[SUP]19 [/SUP]and to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.
To the point that we are knowingly right here and now
Galatians 2:20
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
And it is now no longer "I" who liveth, but Christ in my stead, we are no more than vessels to be used by God, if we are willing and trust God, 100% willing to be co-crucified with Christ at the cross where by his death we are made this:
[h=3]Colossians 1:21-23[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP]And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled [SUP]22 [/SUP]in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: [SUP]23 [/SUP]if ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
So do you see and believe God to have done this for you and willing for God to use you as God sees fit?
It is between God and you.
Love God's way to you Brother