"Torah Observers" don't follow the clean meat laws

MacBestus · Dec 16, 2016

Have you actually read Romans?

You do realize you only quoted half a verse? The ultimate out of context.

The verse actually reads
15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

Which is saying again that sin is a violaton of the law that stirs His wrath.

Thanks for sharing a part of a sentance.

The ONLY way to make Romans read for the side you are on is to take it out of context. It as a whole is a very strong proponent on the side HRM takes.

MacBestus · Dec 16, 2016

Dan_473 said:

It is the same as if you travelling. You just don't offer the sacrifice. Do you think the father ecpected us to always remain close to Jerusalem? Or when the Israelites were in captivity. Much like the Jews between the destruction of temples.

MacBestus · Dec 16, 2016

Shabbat Shalom brothers and Sisters

FreeNChrist · Dec 16, 2016

MacBestus said:

It changed nothing. What you all are doing is akin to a Chinese couple immigrating to America, becoming American citizens, but insisting that they must not have more than one child because in China the law allows only one child per couple. Why would they continue to live by law they are no longer under? Of course....they wouldn't. And neither do Christians live by the Law we are no longer under.

prove-all · Dec 16, 2016

Dan_473 said:

He magnified the law
-

Isaiah 42:21 (KJV)
The Lord is well pleased for his righteousness' sake;
he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.

Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath
committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Matthew 5:21 (KJV)
Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill;
and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:

Matthew 5:33 (KJV)
Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt
not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths:

Ecclesiastes 1:10 (KJV)
Is there any thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new?
it hath been already of old time, which was before us.

---
29O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me,
and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them,
and with their children for ever!

--

Acts 7:38 (KJV)
This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel
which spake to him in the mount Sinai, and with our fathers:
who received the lively oracles [to give unto us]:

Acts 15:21 (KJV)
For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him,
being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, [an holy priesthood],
to offer up [spiritual sacrifices], acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

-
1Thus saith the Lord, Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for my salvation is
near to come, and my righteousness to be revealed. Blessed is the man that
doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath
from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil.

3Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the Lord, speak, saying,
The Lord hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold,
I am a dry tree. For thus saith the Lord unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths,
and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant;

5Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place
and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an
everlasting name, that shall not be cut off.

6Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the Lord, to serve him, and
to love the name of the Lord, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath
from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;Isa 56:5 Even unto them will I give
in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of
daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off.

Dan_473 · Dec 16, 2016

MacBestus said:

what does the law say about offering sacrifices while traveling? I don't know.

I thought that yes, the Israelites were supposed to live near Jerusalem

DEUTERONOMY 16:16 Three times a year all your males shall appear before the LORD your God at the place that he will choose: at the Feast of Unleavened Bread, at the Feast of Weeks, and at the Feast of Booths. They shall not appear before the LORD empty-handed.

I thought that when the Israelites were in the 70 year captivity, they couldn't keep Torah... that was part of the bummer...

between Moses and 70 ad, was there a time with no tent/temple other than the captivity?

but what does the law say about times with no temple? I can't think of anything

Dan_473 · Dec 16, 2016

prove-all said:

He magnified the law
-

Isaiah 42:21 (KJV)
The Lord is well pleased for his righteousness' sake;
he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.

Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath
committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Matthew 5:21 (KJV)
Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill;
and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:

Matthew 5:33 (KJV)
Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt
not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths:

Ecclesiastes 1:10 (KJV)
Is there any thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new?
it hath been already of old time, which was before us.

---
29O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me,
and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them,
and with their children for ever!

--

Acts 7:38 (KJV)
This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel
which spake to him in the mount Sinai, and with our fathers:
who received the lively oracles [to give unto us]:

Acts 15:21 (KJV)
For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him,
being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, [an holy priesthood],
to offer up [spiritual sacrifices], acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

-
1Thus saith the Lord, Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for my salvation is
near to come, and my righteousness to be revealed. Blessed is the man that
doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath
from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil.

3Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the Lord, speak, saying,
The Lord hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold,
I am a dry tree. For thus saith the Lord unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths,
and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant;

5Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place
and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an
everlasting name, that shall not be cut off.

6Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the Lord, to serve him, and
to love the name of the Lord, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath
from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;Isa 56:5 Even unto them will I give
in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of
daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off.

he magnified the law meaning everything about taking sacrifices to the temple has been changed to presenting our bodies as a living sacrifice?

TMS · Dec 16, 2016

FreeNChrist said:

You need to do some research. They were called clean and unclean for a reason, and you will argue why but science shows that the clean animals are cleaner and the unclean animals are more likely to have disease and toxins in them. Science will and does back up Gods dietary plan as being safer and healthier because God loves us and wants the best for us.
If the reason God gave the dietary laws to Israel was because of health issues than you can't argue that the animals have changed or humans have changed so the laws would still be valid today.

GandalfTheWhite · Dec 17, 2016

TMS said:

You need to do some research. They were called clean and unclean for a reason, and you will argue why but science shows that the clean animals are cleaner and the unclean animals are more likely to have disease and toxins in them. Science will and does back up Gods dietary plan as being safer and healthier because God loves us and wants the best for us.
If the reason God gave the dietary laws to Israel was because of health issues than you can't argue that the animals have changed or humans have changed so the laws would still be valid today.

Amen Brother. People are acting like God wants to deprive us from enjoying life while He is actually protecting us.

FreeNChrist · Dec 17, 2016

TMS said:

The reason God gave the Jews those strict dietary restrictions was so they wouldn't mix socially with Gentiles. In those times the main means of social activity was banquet feasts. It was their primary source of entertainment and for developing relationships. So those dietary laws served Gods purpose in keeping the Jew and Gentile separate.

"You are therefore to make a distinction between the [ceremonially] clean animal and the unclean, and between the unclean bird and the clean; and you shall not make yourselves detestable by animal or by bird or by anything that crawls on the ground, which I have set apart from you as unclean. You are to be holy to Me; for I the Lord am holy, and have set you apart from the peoples (nations) to be Mine.“ Leviticus 20:25-26

Blik · Dec 17, 2016

FreeNChrist said:

Our Lord created one world, then created man. This world works under one system. We don't have ocean tides working one way in one part and another way in other parts of the world. Gravity is the same the world over. The laws created in regard to our behavior so our world works best were given at creation, they are the same for all.

FreeNChrist · Dec 17, 2016

Blik said:

Our Lord created one world, then created man. This world works under one system. We don't have ocean tides working one way in one part and another way in other parts of the world. Gravity is the same the world over. The laws created in regard to our behavior so our world works best were given at creation, they are the same for all.

Galatians 3

Grandpa · Dec 17, 2016

MacBestus said:

I won't be able to explain this better than Paul has in Galatians. If you don't understand what he has written then you just don't understand.

If you are working at the law then you are under the law.

Galatians 3:10 [FONT=&quot]For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

[/FONT]Do you understand that?

sparty-g · Dec 18, 2016

Grandpa said:

Grandpa, I believe you are changing the intent of the letter to the Galatians to make it say something it does not say. I ask you, what is the scenario of the letter? It is not simply about some Galatian believers observing Torah-Law commands and Paul had to come set them straight. If it were, then you would have a case. But no, it is about non-Jewish Galatian believers who had trusted in Messiah for salvation, but then began to believe they were not saved and needed to perform ritual conversion by circumcision in order to be saved. The context is clear throughout. As early as chapter 2, Paul is already talking about circumcision (c2v3) and the circumcision group (c2v12b). From the book of Acts, we know what the circumcision group taught: Certain people came down from Judea to Antioch and were teaching the believers: “Unless you are circumcised, according to the custom taught by Moses, you cannot be saved" (Acts 15:1). This is the "other gospel" (c1v6b), which is really no gospel at all (c1v7) -- for it's not "good news" at all to think that salvation is only available to circumcised people (essentially, Jews) and has to be earned by obedience. This is why Peter's, Barnabas', and the other Jews' separation (c2v11-13) was such a serious mistake -- it was reinforcing the message of the circumcision group by communicating to the non-Jewish Galatian believers that they were not actually saved nor were they worthy of fellowship. The verse you quoted above (c3v10) and surrounding verses are trying to send one simple message: if you do not trust in Messiah for your salvation, but instead only trust in your works (ritual conversion by circumcision and keeping the Torah-Law to earn salvation), then you are under a curse (c3v10) and not justified before God (c3v11), because you cannot do what the Torah-Law requires (i.e., perfect obedience) to merit justification, and have rejected the Messiah's taking that curse upon Himself (c3v13) since you do not trust in the Messiah. This is why if they accept circumcision, then Messiah will be of no value to them (c5v2), because they will have demonstrated that their faith is not in Messiah for salvation, but in their fleshly circumcision and their imagined ability to keep the whole Torah-Law (c5v3). The majority of the letter is Paul using Scripture and theological cases to support this idea, and he again closes the letter out (c612-16) on the topic of circumcision.

In sum, this letter is about a very specific problem among the non-Jewish Galatian believers: They were forsaking their trust in Messiah for salvation and placing in ritual conversion by circumcision. They believed that they were not truly justified by their faith in Messiah and not part of the body of believers (or you could extend that to God's kingdom of believers) until they had performed ritual circumcision. The circumcision group was confusing them with that heresy and Peter, Barnabas, and the local Jewish believers were reinforcing this false message by their separating from them.

No MJ / HRM / Torah-observants folks believe or teach what the circumcision group was teaching or what the Galatian believers were foolishly accepting. And this letter is not about observing Torah-Law commands to walk as Messiah walked after faithfully trusting in Him and accepting His salvation and God's grace-pardon -- which is what we do believe.

JaumeJ · Dec 18, 2016

Once more, to all those who teach we must not or we must obey the law (according to Jesus Christ I refer.)

You, both sides are teaching the law and against the teaching recommended by Paul.

Think about it before you, a law unto yourselves but not from God.......

All may do either as long as they know they are saved by grace, for any action with a clear conscience in the sight of God is permitted, at least according to Paul.

Everyone, stop accusing each other, and stop talking out of both sides of your mouth. Either you believe or you do not.

ÇGod bless all who are in Jesus Christ, who hear Him, and who do His words.......God bless all who will come to Him, amen.

MacBestus · Dec 18, 2016

I hope you all had a blessed Shabbat. It looks like we need to look at Galatians. Particularly chapter 3. What follows is an edited version of Eliyahs comments on it.

Galatians, what a misunderstood book!*

Often, one of the first things Christians will say when you tell them the law has not been completly abolished is: "you need to read the book of Galatians!" In spite of the*multitude of scriptures in the "New Testament" which demonstrate we should keep Yahweh's law, many understand Paul's letter to Galatians to state otherwise.*

In reality, there is not a single verse in the book of Galatians or anywhere in the scripture that would tell us that the law has been abolished. Rather, much to the contrary! The book of Galatians actually proves that while we are not saved by our observance of the Torah (The Hebrew word translated "Law" all throughout the scriptures), true believers will make a sincere effort to walk in its precepts.

go through each of the verses in Galatians chapter 2 through chapter 5, which contain the key verses speaking of Yahweh's Torah/law and its place in our life. It is the words in these chapters that are most frequently understood as "abolishing the law." Examine them to see if Paul is really making any claim that the law is now abolished and not to be heeded.*

Questions answered are:

Did Paul say that the law is abolished?
*Was Paul talking about feast and Sabbath days when he said "you observe days, months, times and years?"
*Does the Sinai covenant bring us to bondage?
*What does it mean to be "under the law?"
*Should believers in Messiah be circumcised?
*Did Paul rebuke Peter for trying to get Gentiles to keep the Torah?
*Are those who observe the Torah under a curse?
*Did the law end when the Messiah came to earth?

Almost all of the Christian world regards Paul's letter to the Galatians as "proof" that we need not concern ourselves with keeping Yahweh's Torah/law. This is a major mistake that must be addressed thoroughly. It is often more difficult for a person to 'unlearn error' than to 'learn truth.' For this reason, the studies into the book of Galatians is longer than most.*

If you feel that I'm in error in this study, feel free to*contact me. I'm only interested in the truth.

Galatians chapter 3

The words in Galatians 3 were written to explain, from the Old Testament scriptures, why circumcision and Torah keeping are not prerequisites to receiving salvation. Paul demonstrates very clearly why we receive salvation through Yahushua the Messiah and why all Gentiles are sons of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob through Him.

Let's begin by quoting the end of chapter 2 to get a context of the first verses in chapter 3.

Galatians 2:20*- I am crucified with Messiah: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Messiah liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of Elohim, who loved me, and gave himself for me.*21*I do not frustrate the grace of Elohim: for if righteousness*come*by the law, then Messiah is dead in vain.

Looking at the context from which Paul was speaking, Paul is facing those who are presenting "another good news/gospel," the gospel of circumcision. The Gentiles were not accepted by those who were "of the circumcision" because they believed that even though the Gentiles received Yahushua, that was not good enough. They believed that the Gentiles were not sons of Abraham and they were not saved until they were first circumcised and kept the Torah. This unscriptural method of receiving salvation was a threat to Yahushua Himself. It was so dangerous that Paul said in the beginning of his letter:

Galatians 1:8-9*But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.*9*As we said before, so say I now again, If any*man*preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

For if we choose to proclaim the good news, the message we proclaim must be true. Otherwise, we are building a foundation on falsehood. Yahushua is the way, the truth and the life. The "good news of the circumcision" heresy was a threat to being able to reach the rest of the world with salvation.

All throughout the scriptures, including the 'Old Testament', it is always the hearts of men that Yahweh is most concerned about. Suppose there was a Gentile that lived 200 years before Messiah who came to the conviction that Yahweh was the true Elohim and he repented of his ways. Then, as he learned more about Yahweh's commandments he began to make a sincere effort walk in them. This being the case, at what point would such a man be received by Yahweh? Would it be after he observed 5 commandments? Or would it be after he observed 10? Or might it be the observance of 613 commandments were necessary for him to achieve salvation? The truth is Yahweh knows the hearts of all men and can meet them where they are. This has always been true:

Ezekiel 33:12*Therefore, thou son of man, say unto the children of thy people, The righteousness of the righteous shall not deliver him in the day of his transgression: as for the wickedness of the wicked, he shall not fall thereby*in the day that he turneth from his wickedness; neither shall the righteous be able to live for his*righteousness*in the day that he sinneth.

So the "good news of the circumcision" was not based on a correct understanding of how Yahweh deals with mankind. It wasn't true in Paul's day and it was never true at any point in history. Yahweh sees the hearts of all men. It was prideful men who wanted to have their own little 'club' that turned the good news of Yahushua into some kind of works based salvation with circumcision being the 'hazing act' in order to be accepted into the club.*This was a perversion of what Yahweh intended His plan of salvation to be and what He intended circumcision to be.

*For review let's examine again the characteristics of those who were proclaiming this "good news of the circumcision":

They were from Judea. (Acts 15:1)They were "sect of the Pharisees" (Acts 15:5)They claimed to be believers in Yahushua. (Acts 15:5)They believed that one cannot have salvation unless they are first circumcised and/or keep the Talmud/ Torah. (Acts 15:1)They were vigorous in their belief to the point that they would argue with Paul and Barnabas over it, and even approach the apostles and elders about it. (Acts 15:1,5)They were actually "false brethren" (Gal 2:4)They liked to sneak into the assemblies of true brethren to convert them to their own "good news" understanding of how to receive salvation. (Gal 2:4)They didn't even keep the law themselves. (Gal 6:12-13)They were interested in circumcising the Gentiles so that they could receive glory from men. (Gal 6:12-13)Their sect had a history of being focused on "man pleasing" and laying heavy burdens on people that they themselves wouldn't do. (Mat. 23:4-5)

With this in mind, let's continue to Galatians 3:

Galatians 3:1*O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Yahushua the Messiah hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? 2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

The Gentiles who turned their lives over to Yahweh didn't receive the Holy Spirit because they had been keeping the law. They received the Holy Spirit because they repented and accepted Yahushua the Messiah. In response to the false 'good news of the circumcision', Paul was reminding them that the Spirit was given as evidence of their immediate salvation. Kepha (Peter) also had been shown this truth:*
*
Acts 10:44*While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. 45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.*

Yahweh's plan of instant recognition of the Gentiles' salvation was something very difficult for many Jews to accept. It was so ingrained in their culture that a Gentile couldn't just come to Yahweh and be accepted the same as a natural Jew without going through a long process. But Yahweh showed that He accepted them when He poured out His Spirit on the Gentiles the moment they believed, thereby demonstrating that their sins were forgiven by faith, not by circumcision and Torah/law keeping. So Paul pointed out that they received the Spirit by the hearing of faith, not because they had kept the Torah (they hadn't).*

Galatians 3:3*Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

In this verse, it is believed by some that anyone attempting to be obedient to Yahweh's law is seeking to "be made perfect by the flesh." But would doing something like honoring your parents be an attempt to "be made perfect by the flesh"? Or not committing adultery? Certainly not, but submitting to the 'good news of the salvation by circumcision' certainly would be.*

Nevertheless, let's examine the Greek word translated "made perfect" in this verse. It is Strong's word*#2005*and it means "to fulfill further (or completely), i.e. execute; by implication, to terminate, undergo" or in the Thayer's Greek Lexicon, "to bring to an end, accomplish, perfect, execute, complete." Young's Literal translation reads:

Galatians 3:3*so thoughtless are ye! having begun in the Spirit, now in the flesh do ye end?

Since the Gentiles had already received the Holy Spirit as evidence of their salvation, it was senseless for them to convert to the good news of 'the circumcision' which would have actually resulted in their condemnation rather than salvation. For if we require Torah obedience as a prerequisite to salvation, none of us would be found faultless before the throne of Yahweh on the day of judgment. We would be relying on the Adam man (self) and his abilities in the flesh to obey the Torah to achieve salvation rather than trusting in what Yahushua has already done for us. Thus, our end would be "in the flesh" rather than "in the Spirit". Anyone relying on their perfection in the flesh as one of the prerequisites to salvation will find that their own righteousness will not save them in the day of judgment.

The Jews of that time period taught that you were not a child of Abraham and therefore 'not Israel' until you were circumcised. They believed that one couldn't receive Israel's promises unless you 'became Israel' by being circumcised. Overall, they were putting too much of their faith in the fact that they were children of Abraham. But John the Baptist rebuked them for this:*

Matthew 3:7*But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come? 8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance: 9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to*our*father: for I say unto you, that Yahweh is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

Thus, there was a tremendous amount of emphasis put on whether or not a person was a son of Abraham--even to the point of someone getting puffed up and believing they didn't need to repent.*@

Let's continue in Galatians 3:

Galatians 3:4*Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if*it be*yet in vain.5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you,*doeth he it*by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Further proof that the context of Paul's words on this issue is the question of which "good news" is to be believed and what is necessary for salvation is what Paul says here in verse 4. If the Gentiles had received a false message of salvation from Paul and the other apostles, all their suffering they endured up to that point was in vain because they weren't even saved to begin with. Paul is making this very point when he asks them if they suffered persecution in vain. In verse 5, he also adds further evidence that Yahweh has accepted them by bringing to remembrance the ministry of the Spirit which worked miracles among them even though they were uncircumcised and unlearned in the Torah.Yahweh had purified their hearts by faith just as Kepha said in Acts 15:

Acts 15:8-11*And Elohim, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as*he did*unto us;*9And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.*10*Now therefore why tempt ye Elohim, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?*11*But we believe that through the grace of the Master Yahushua Messiah we shall be saved, even as they.

So we are all saved by grace, not by this "good news of the circumcision" which was in contrast to the true good news. Again for review compare the two side by side:

Good News of 'the Circumcision'The True Good NewsRepent and accept Yahushua

THEN

Learn all of the Torah and obey it

THEN

Get circumcised

THEN

YOU ARE ABRAHAM'S SEED AND ARE DECLARED RIGHTEOUSRepent and accept Yahushua (Acts 2:38)

The*true*Good News is that we receive salvation when we repent and accept Yahushua as our righteousness. Those who lived before Yahushua's day were still saved by faith in Yahweh's promises:

Galatians*3:6*Even as Abraham believed Yahweh, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

So even Abraham 'believed' Yahweh and because of that belief he was declared righteous. He believed the promises and his faith in Yahweh was evidenced by his works when he demonstrated a willingness to offer his own son Isaac on the altar to Yahweh:

Hebrews 11:17-19*By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten*son,*18*Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:*19*Accounting that Elohim*was*able to raise*him*up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.

And Yahushua said:

John 8:56*Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw*it, and was glad.

And so Paul demonstrates that even Abraham was saved by faith. Those who are of faith are also considered to be children of Abraham:*

Galatians*3:6*Even as Abraham believed Yahweh, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. 7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

If one has faith like Abraham, one is like Abraham. Therefore they are child of Abraham. Consider what Yahushua said to the Scribes and Pharisees on this same subject:

John 8:37* I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.38 I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Yahushua saith unto them,*If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
.

MacBestus · Dec 18, 2016

So Paul is in total agreement with what Yahushua had taught on this.*

Continuing in Galatians:

Galatians*3:8-9*And the scripture, foreseeing that Yahweh would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham,*saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.*9*So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.*

In keeping with the theme of understanding the true "Good News," Paul begins to explain how the true "Good News" was preached all the way back in the 12th and 22nd chapter of Genesis.*

Genesis 12:3*And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and*in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

And again:

Genesis 22:11-14*And the angel of Yahweh called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here*am*I.*12*And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest Elohim, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only*son*from me.*13*And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind*him*a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son.*14*And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovahjireh: as it is said*to*this day, In the mount of Yahweh it shall be seen.

Because of this, Yahweh said to Abraham:

Genesis 22:15-18*And the angel of Yahweh called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time,*16*And said, By myself have I sworn, saith Yahweh, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only*son:*17*That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which*is*upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;*18And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.

Because Abraham did not withhold his only son, Yahweh gave him the promises. We read earlier in Galatians 3:8 that the "Good news" was preached to Abraham when he was given this promise. But how was the true "good news" preached in this promise? And does the Torah play a role in the good news at all? That's what Galatians 3 explains in detail, and it is actually quite awesome when fully understood! So let's continue:

Galatians*3:9*So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham. 10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed [is] every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

Because of a misunderstanding of the book of Galatians, there are a lot of people who believe that anyone attempting to obey Yahweh's commandments are "under a curse." But if this was true, we would be cursed every time we tried to honor our parents. We would be cursed for refraining from adultery or even choosing to worship Yahweh alone. But the truth is that we are no more cursed for doing those things than we would be if we kept the Sabbath. So what does verse 10 actually mean?*

We see that he is comparing those "which be of faith" and those which are "of the works of the law". In this is the contrast of the two versions of the "Good news," the 'good news of the circumcision' and the True Good News. The 'good news of the circumcision' says that we do not receive salvation through faith in Yahushua alone, but we receive salvation when learning/keeping the Torah and are circumcised.*

As we said earlier,*if we require Torah obedience as a prerequisite to salvation, none of us would be found faultless before the throne of Yahweh on the day of judgment. We would be relying on the Adam man (self) and his abilities in the flesh to obey the Torah rather than trusting in what Yahushua has already done for us. Anyone attempting to trust in the Adam man for their righteousness are "of the works of the law" and are under a curse because the Torah itself says "cursed is everyone" who has not done the things which were written in the Torah/law! Since none of us has done them, none of us will receive salvation by them. Anyone attempting to be declared righteous (justified) by them will find themselves condemned.*

Sadly though, today many think that we are under a curse if we seek to obey them. But this is not what it says. Paul is quoting from Deuteronomy 27:26 where it says:

Deuteronomy 27:26* Cursed*be*he that confirmeth not*all*the words of this law to do them. And all the people shall say, Amen.

Does this scripture say that those who do them are under a curse? Certainly not. It is saying those who DO NOT do them are under a curse! Paul is not saying that we should not do them. Paul is saying that no one should submit to the false 'good news of the circumcision' which actually places a person under a curse by trying to insert the works of the 'Adam man' into Yahweh's plan for salvation. Anyone seeking to be justified (declared righteous) by the law is going to be condemned because they haven't kept the law--thus, they are cursed and not blessed with believing Abraham. So Paul says:

Galatians*3:9-11*So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham. 10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed*is*every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. 11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of Yahweh,*it is*evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

No one is justified by the law because the law doesn't declare us righteous. It declares us to be unrighteous. Therefore, the "just" (one who is declared righteous) must live (have eternal life) by faith that Yahweh has mercy and will forgive our sins. Let's look at the scripture quoted here:

Habakkuk 2:4*Behold, his soul*which*is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.

One cannot live or be justified by trusting in his own righteousness. This scripture says*"his soul*which*is lifted up is not upright in him."*To claim that we have our own righteousness is to be prideful. Here is how the New King James version translates this:

Habakkuk 2:4*(NKJV) "Behold the proud, His soul is not upright in him; But the just shall live by his faith.

So just because a person claims to be "upright" does not mean he is. We cannot be justified before Yahweh by our claims of righteousness because all men have sinned at some point in their life. We are left with no choice but to "live" (have eternal life) by faith!* We must come to Yahweh and trust in Him to forgive us of our sins and make us righteous through Yahushua the Messiah if we expect to have any hope whatsoever. Any other claim to righteousness is pure pride! The 'good news of the circumcision' minimized the sufficiency of our righteousness in Yahushua.*

Galatians*3:11-12*But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of Yahweh,*it is*evident: for, The just shall live by faith. 12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

This is once again a quote from the law. Let's examine it:

Leviticus 18:5*Ye shall therefore keep my statutes, and my judgments: which if a man do, he shall*live*in them: I*am*Yahweh

If a man has done the law, he will certainly LIVE and have eternal life. This man would be justified by the law. But NO MAN has ever done this except Yahushua the Messiah. Therefore no man can LIVE or have salvation because they kept them. We all must rely on Yahushua!*We cannot rely on our own obedience to the law to save us.

Galatians*3:13*The Messiah hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed [is] every one that hangeth on a tree:

Is the law a curse? Some would love to quote this verse to you to tell you that. But as we learned earlier, it isn't those who KEEP the law that are under the curse, but those who have BROKEN it. Yahushua redeemed us from the curse that came when we disobeyed the law, For He was cursed for us by being hung on the tree.

Deuteronomy 21:22*And if a man have committed a sin worthy of death, and he be to be put to death, and thou hang him on a tree: 23 His body shall not remain all night upon the tree, but thou shalt in any wise bury him that day; (for he that is hanged*isaccursed of Elohim

that thy land be not defiled, which the Yahweh thy Elohim giveth thee*for*an inheritance.

Yahushua was hanged on a tree, yet He committed no sins. It was for our iniquities and our transgressions that He was put to death, just as the prophets foretold:

Isaiah 53:5-6*But he*was*wounded for our transgressions,*he wasbruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace*wasupon him; and with his stripes we are healed.*6*All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and Yahweh hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

We have committed sins (transgressions of the law, 1 John 3:4) that are worthy of death (the wages of sin IS death, Rom 6:23). Yahushua has redeemed us from this curse by becoming a curse for us when Yahweh laid on Him the iniquity of us all. So for anyone to claim that they have salvation because they have done the law, they cannot be speaking the truth. None of us has done them, so none of us will live (have eternal life) by them. Anyone saying that you aren't saved unless you are first circumcised and keep the law is seeking salvation by their own works and are under a curse. Such a one has not submitted to the truth that Yahushua's righteousness is sufficient to bring a sinner the cleansing he needs to be a child of Abraham:

Galatians 3:13*The Messiah hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed [is] every one that hangeth on a tree: 14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Yahushua the Messiah; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

We see this promise fulfilled when we saw how the Gentiles received the Spirit in Acts 10. So now the blessing of Abraham (eternal life in the promised land) would also come to the Gentiles when they receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. The Spirit of Yahweh was poured out on the Gentiles when He purified their hearts by faith in Acts 10 and other scriptures, proving that He had accepted them in their uncircumcised state when they believed in Yahushua. For Jews to refuse fellowship with Gentiles (Galatians 2, Acts 11, 15) until they were circumcised and kept the law was hypocritical, was a misrepresentation of the true good news, and denied the power of Yahushua's blood as being sufficient to cleanse us of all unrighteousness.*

Next Paul begins to explain how the good news was preached to Abraham in the Genesis 12 & 22 promises, and how that applies to us today as well:

Galatians 3:15*Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Thoughit be*but a man's covenant, yet*if it be*confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.

Even in covenants of men, no one can take away or add to that covenant. Therefore the same is true of Yahweh's covenants.

Galatians 3:16*Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And*to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is the Messiah.

Notice carefully that Paul makes an important point regarding Genesis 22. Yahweh did NOT mean "To seeds" (all descendants of Abraham) but rather "To his SEED" (Yahushua the Messiah). Thus, the promise is made to two people: Abraham and Yahushua. For "He saith not, And*to seeds, as of many".*

Not everyone is going to inherit the land promised to Abraham. The wicked among the literal children of Israel will not inherit it. The wicked among the Gentiles will not inherit it. Only the righteous will inherit the land. In order for one to be righteous, they need to be a part of the body of Messiah, the "Seed" to whom the promises are made. Thus, Yahweh said to Abraham:*

Genesis 12:3*And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and*in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed

MacBestus · Dec 18, 2016

Genesis 2÷2:18*And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.

So Yahweh also promised to Abraham and to the Messiah that through them*all the nations and families of the earth*(Yes, Gentiles!) would be blessed.through Abraham and through his Seed, the Messiah. That blessing is eternal life in the promised land. Thus, the following promise in Genesis is fulfilled in Him:

Genesis 3:15*And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

We know that Yahushua bruised the head of the serpent, but not without a wound Himself. Yahweh chose to bring this Seed (the Messiah) through a son of Abraham, then later narrowed it down to a son of David, then through Mary, the prophetic woman who brought forth the Seed that would destroy the work of the enemy--namely, sin and death.*

1 John 3:8*He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of Elohim was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil.

Let's continue in Galatians 3:

Galatians 3:16-17*Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Messiah.*17*And this I say,*that*the covenant, that was confirmed before of Elohim in Messiah, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

Now here is where it can get very confusing if we did not understand the previous points and the context in which they were given. The 'good news of the circumcision' sought to involve the necessity of circumcision and Torah/law keeping as a prerequisite to receiving salvation (forgiveness of sin and eternal life in the promised land) and being accepted into full fellowship. But Paul is making the point that there is nothing written later on in the Torah that can disannul the promise given to Abraham and to His seed. If we are in Yahushua, we have everything we need! The additional requirements which the 'good news of the circumcision' sought to involve were attempts to disannul the Abrahamic covenant or add to it. So Paul said:

Galatians 3:18*For if the inheritance*be*of the law,*it is*no more of promise: but Elohim gave*it*to Abraham by promise.

So if the inheritance (eternal life in the promised land) comes from Yahweh's law then it is no longer a promise but something conditional upon our own perfection. If it were conditional upon our own ability to obey the Torah, none of us would make it. Therefore, we need the promise. It is this promise to Abraham and to his Seed (Yahushua) which is actually the "Good news" that we need. It is that "Good News" that was preached to Abraham:

Galatians*3:8-9*And the scripture, foreseeing that Yahweh would justify the heathen through faith,*preached before the gospel unto Abraham, [saying], In thee shall all nations be blessed.*9*So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.*

We need to be as faithful Abraham who believed the "good news" and we need to be the Seed of Abraham (Messiah) in order to be blessed with the inheritance. It is no longer we who live, it is Yahushua the Seed of Abraham who lives in us. This is the simple plan of salvation that Yahweh first mentioned in Genesis 3:15 right after the first sin was committed, further revealed by Yahweh's promise to Abraham and to his Seed, and even further revealed by the righteousness found in the Torah, Yahweh's promise to David, and the words of the prophets.*

So where does the law of Yahweh actually fit in all of this? Paul was glad we asked...*

Galatians 3:19*Wherefore then*serveth*the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made;*and it wasordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

Now if we hadn't paid any attention to the previous verses, we might get the impression that the law was just a temporary thing until Yahushua came. But since we have been going over this very carefully, we will understand what is truly meant here in verse 19.

Firstly, notice that it says that the law was added 'because of transgressions.' It needed to be established that Yahweh has a righteous standard that He wants everyone to live by. If Yahweh had not given the Torah/law, there would have been no transgression from which one needed to be redeemed through Yahushua the Messiah:*

Romans 4:15b*for where no law is,*there is*no transgression.

Now notice that it says that it was added..."till the seed should come to whom the promise was made." But to whom was the promise made? We know the answer:

Galatians 3:16*Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Messiah.

The promise was made to Abraham*and to the Messiah Yahushua, his Seed.*

But how is it that Seed should come to Abraham and Himself? Oh but this is the beauty of the good news! We ARE the body of the Messiah. It is no longer we who live but Messiah who lives in us. The day will come when Yahushua will return to gather each of us (His body) together with Abraham and at that time we will have no need of the Torah because we will no longer have sin within us.*

1 Timothy 1:9-10*Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,*10*For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

Are there such men on the earth today? Certainly, and sometimes those who are in the body of Messiah fail to cleave to sound doctrine. Therefore, the need for the law of Yahweh to instruct us is still here any time we might fall short of righteousness.*

Suppose for a moment you had the responsibility to supervise a room of 30 children for a day. On the first day you supervised them, all of the children were loving, obedient and never needed a bit of correction. In such a condition there would be no need for laws, commandments and ordinances to keep the children from doing wrong.*

Now suppose that on the second day you supervised them, there were some major problems where the children were starting to get selfish and were fighting with one another. You would then need to set up "ground rules" (i.e. commandments, ordinances, statutes, laws) for the children to follow so that they would learn to walk in love rather than hate.*

The same is true of our Heavenly Father. If we were walking in love, He would have no need to give us commandments, ordinances and laws to keep us from doing wrong things to Him and wrong things to one another. But since we have an inclination to do evil and be selfish, the Torah/law of Yahweh was given so that we would see that we have sinned against Him and against one another. When the day comes that we no longer have the inclination to do evil, we will have no need of the Torah any longer. But as long as there are lawless and disobedient sinners, unholy and profane men, liars, or any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine--the Torah/law is necessary to provide instruction in righteousness:

2 Timothy 3:16-17*All scripture*isgiven by inspiration of Elohim, and*is*profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:*17That the man of Elohim may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

With these principles in mind, the correct understanding of Galatians 3:19 comes to light:

Galatians 3:19*Wherefore then*serveth*the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made;*and it wasordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

The simple truth is that the earth was full of disobedient children who needed instruction in righteousness, but in our case also needed redemption from sin. If no law had been given, Yahweh's righteous standard would have been unknown and none of us would have realized that we needed repent and be forgiven for anything.*Yahweh had to show everyone what His will is, what His way of Righteousness is so that when Yahushua would come, we would all realize we are sinners.

Continuing in Galatians:

Galatians 3:20*Now a mediator is not*a mediator*of one, but Elohim is one.

This vagueness of this verse has resulted in much perplexity among various commentators. I'll be humble enough to join them in saying I'm not 100% sure what Paul exactly intended to say here with so few words, but I think it is at least safe to conclude that there is nothing here that has anything to do with the idea that we are free to defiantly disobey Yahweh's law now.

Galatians 3:21*Is*the law then against the promises of Elohim? Elohim forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

If the law was able to give us righteousness and eternal life, it would have been against the promises of Yahweh which (as we discussed) involved the Seed (the Messiah) bringing us the blessing rather than the law. The law itself does not deliver the promise of life, it only points out what our sins actually are so that we will receive the promise of the inheritance by faith in Yahushua:

Galatians 3:22*But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Yahushua Messiah might be given to them that believe.

Were it not for the Torah, we would not have recognized our sin and we would have not sought to receive the promise by faith in Yahushua. So the Torah has an important role in us receiving the promise, but*the Torah itself does not give us the promise. The Torah does promise life to those who do the things which were written within it, but none of us have done the things which are written within it! Only Yahushua has done it. Therefore we need to be a part of Him, and we need to abide in Him in order for us to receive the promise. The promise is to Him, and He is the Way, the Truth and the Life.. no man comes to the Father except through Him. Of course, as we discussed in the Galatians 2 study, those who abide in Him will want to walk as He walked...keeping the Torah.*

1 John 2:6*He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.

But it is faith and salvation that comes first, not Torah observance. Otherwise, we are ALL condemned. Continuing in Galatians 3:

Galatians 3:23-24*But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.*24Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster*to bring us*unto Messiah, that we might be justified by faith.

Before we believed, the Torah/law kept us under guard as a schoolmaster to teach us that we needed salvation and redemption. It confined us all under sin, kept until the promise by faith in Yahushua would be revealed to us. It's purpose is to bring us to Yahushua so that we can be declared righteous by faith.*

If today we chose to put ourselves under the law, we would be condemned. But if we humbly admitted that we needed Yahweh's grace and chose to believe in the promise of justification by faith in Yahushua, we would be a part of His body and He would dwell in us so that we can receive the promise of eternal life.

Galatians 3:25-27*But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.*26*For ye are all the children of Elohim by faith in Messiah Yahushua.*27*For as many of you as have been baptized into Messiah have put on Messiah.

If we were still under the schoolmaster/law, we would still be looking for the way to get out of the confinement of sin. But we consider ourselves children of Elohim by faith in Yahushua who is a Child of the living Elohim. We were baptized into Messiah and have put on Messiah. It is no longer we who live; it is Messiah who lives in us.*

This being the case, we are no longer under the law/tutor which had the intent of bringing us to Yahushua through confining/concluding us all under sin. But of course, this does not mean that we can continue in sin so that grace may abound:

Romans 6:15-16*What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? Elohim forbid.*16*Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Romans 6:1-6*What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?*2*Elohim forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?*3*Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Yahushua Messiah were baptized into his death?*4*Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Messiah was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.*5*For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also*in the likeness*of*his*resurrection:*6Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with*him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Paul never taught that being under grace was a license to continue breaking Yahweh's law. This is another perversion, the modern "good news" that is often proclaimed today. Rather, the fact that we are now Body of Messiah should demonstrate that we are to live as He did, walk as He walked and love as He loved. He kept the Torah perfectly, and it is He who now lives in us. Our choice to turn away from Torah breaking and receive Him for our salvation is evidence that He lives in us.*

The problem with the Galatians is that they had it backwards. You don't seek obedience to the law through human effort and then receive salvation; you receive salvation through Yahushua's indwelling so that you have the power to walk in obedience!*

The 'good news of the circumcision' was a false doctrine that created division within the body of Messiah, with the Gentiles being like second class citizens who needed more than Yahushua's righteousness to be considered worthy of full fellowship.*

In Galatians 3, Paul's purpose is to demonstrate quite clearly one principle that exposes the 'good news of the circumcision' as a false doctrine that was never true:Salvation is not of the law, it is of promise.*Therefore, we don't need circumcision to be a son of Abraham, we need Yahushua the Messiah, the Seed of Abraham dwelling in us!

Galatians 3:27-29*For as many of you as have been baptized into Messiah have put on Messiah.*28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Messiah Yahushua.*29*And if ye*beMessiah's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

HalleluYah, for in Yahweh's eyes we are all Abraham's Seed through Yahushua. It isthrough Yahweh's promise to Abraham that this is so. Not through circumcision, not through our own righteousness...only through Yahushua and His Sonship, His righteousness, His indwelling. We are Israelites indeed through Yahushua who dwells in us. Because of this we are no longer strangers, but heirs:

Ephesians 2:8-13*For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves:*it is*the gift of Elohim:*9*Not of works, lest any man should boast.*10*For we are his workmanship, created in Messiah Yahushua unto good works, which Elohim hath before ordained that we should walk in them.*11*Wherefore remember, that ye*being*in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;*12*That at that time ye were without Messiah, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without Elohim in the world:*13But now in Messiah Yahushua ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Messiah.

Indeed, many of us in time past were Gentiles in the flesh, aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise. But through the good news of Yahushua the Messiah we are no longer Gentiles, but we are sons of Abraham, made nigh to the covenants of promise, joint heirs according to the promise, being one new man: Yahushua the Messiah living in each one of us.*

For this, we have much to be thankful for. Let's allow Him to live in each of us in such a way that others recognize the Torah observant Savior and want the peace and reconciliation with Yahweh that we have received through Him; cleaving to His promises, heeding His word, loving Yahweh with all our hearts, and loving one another as He so loved us. That's what Yahushua is all about, and that's what the Torah is all about. Fellow children of Yisrael, follow His example!

sparty-g · Dec 18, 2016

MacBestus: Thanks for sharing Eliyah's teaching on it. I'm quite familiar with his writings. But for many of us who are short on time, it would be best to distill those previous posts into a few bullet points and then we can go back and read the full details later. Perhaps starting by answering the questions posed at the beginning of the first post and adding other brief points you think are important? I know -- I'm long-winded myself, so I even have to remind myself the effectiveness of brevity at times.

JaumeJ · Dec 18, 2016

If all understand this, the written code kills, it is the spirit that gies life, they would do well.

It is bettr to post a few words with understanding thand to quote all of the Bible without understanding.

All too many weave words of death completely bereft of the Holy Spirit in order to satisfy a human design in the
place of our Father's design.

Understand this, God prefers mercy and not sacrifice. A few words with understanding is always better than a sacrificial
essay containing a myriad of quotations used improperly.

Children understand all of this.

"Torah Observers" don't follow the clean meat laws

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