Translation issue(s)?

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Jun 20, 2022
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#41
Hi if you read the OP, Runningman aid it was not actually KJB did translate pusche as heart but almost all the English Bible versions. You may google that to bible hub or blb. Thanks
i agree and the English translation came directly from the textus receptus.

words like doctrine never existed until 1400's when it became an ENGLISH term. so the English Language + textus receptus destroyed the Bible.
 
Jun 20, 2022
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#42
With respect, not going to derail the thread. Perhaps you can give us your idea about the topic at hand. God bless
i added what i did in previous posts because it falls in line with how translations messed with the words soul and life.
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
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#43
i added what i did in previous posts because it falls in line with how translations messed with the words soul and life.
Would you further expound more on the soul and life as a mess and you go to topic at hand. God bless
 
Jun 20, 2022
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#44
Would you further expound more on the soul and life as a mess and you go to topic at hand. God bless
this is different but similar:

3rd Century Greek:

Acts 2:31 foreseeing, he spoke of the resurrection of Christ, that neither was he left in hades, nor did his flesh see corruption.
^
no mention of SOUL


KJV [textus receptus]

Acts 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
^
mentions SOUL

so the word ψυχή is added here!
 
Jun 20, 2022
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#45
this is different but similar:

3rd Century Greek:

Acts 2:31 foreseeing, he spoke of the resurrection of Christ, that neither was he left in hades, nor did his flesh see corruption.
^
no mention of SOUL


KJV [textus receptus]

Acts 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
^
mentions SOUL

so the word ψυχή is added here!
and it's possible if the KJV writers were copying the textus receptus who was adding the word [ψυχή] (SOUL) they added it to life and just were adding it to several places it never originally existed. it's why we find ψυχή in odd places.
 
Mar 4, 2020
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#46
So where the word soul is used does it actually mean soul or something else?

What I’m seeing is that the translation of the Greek word for soul is being used in many ways that don’t match the definition. I.e., there aren’t many kinds of souls but there are many kinds of love in Greek.
 
Jun 20, 2022
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#47
So where the word soul is used does it actually mean soul or something else?

What I’m seeing is that the translation of the Greek word for soul is being used in many ways that don’t match the definition. I.e., there aren’t many kinds of souls but there are many kinds of love in Greek.
that's the important key here.

we know how the word ψυχή is supposed to be used by the Greek Texts. so any place we see where it's been added or has replaced another word we should immediately wonder why did this happen. for my own reasoning, i am thankful we do have the closest to the original Greek Text by what we read in Jerome's texts, the Septuagint, and the Creeds. so we know the consistency of how words are being used. that is our [Red Flag] moment when we see the English manipulate any specific word.

let's just be honest here. it is literally impossible that the original Greek is wrong.
the CREEDS alone are based off them!

so when the English translation changes over 251 Verses and adds over 1,000 words, it no longer is God's Holy Word we are reading! it's close. but not as authentic as the original Greek.
 

wattie

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2009
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New Zealand
#48
That’s kinda what I figured. “The church tends to believe it this way so we can’t translate the word for soul literally in certain places or it will change how we prefer the Bible to be understood.” is the gist I’m getting.

Here’s another example that’s a little more obviously shows a translation inconsistency:

Matthew 16:25,26 KJV
25For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. 26For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

The word for life and soul in this passage is the same Greek word for breath/soul, psuché, but the pretense of the context is about saving/losing life and the question asked is about one losing/exchanging their soul.

I’m starting to think they translated the word soul as life, heart, or mind in order to support the doctrines/traditions of the church.

This is another one where 'life' would be a better word for the later cases because other scripture would show you don't lose your soul/spirit, but vitality or closeness to God as a believer.
 
Jun 20, 2022
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#49
what literally [[((DISTURBS))]] me the most about Concordances is for the most part any given word has multiple possible meanings.

WRONG!

when Jesus spoke or the Holy Spirit Inspired words to be written, THERE WAS ONLY ONE SINGLE MEANING AND PURPOSE!

this is why i have let my Strongs and Youngs become dust collectors. the 3rd Century Greek was translated how the WORD was meant to be understood. there's no possible second meanings. it is what it is. and that makes understanding God easier!
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
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#50
what literally [[((DISTURBS))]] me the most...

this is why i have let my Strongs and Youngs become dust collectors. the
How ironic, that you wanted Young's as garbage when in fact Youngs has the very "soul" in Ephesians 6:6. I don't also adhere to Youngs Literal translation and indeed has many errors. Yet you put it the same as garbage when it actually helps you.
 
Jun 20, 2022
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#51
How ironic, that you wanted Young's as garbage when in fact Youngs has the very "soul" in Ephesians 6:6. I don't also adhere to Youngs Literal translation and indeed has many errors. Yet you put it the same as garbage when it actually helps you.
what Bible Translation are you using where Ephesians 6:6 has the word [SOUL] in it?

it can only be the Original Greek:
6 not according to eye-service as pleasing men, but as servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the soul;

look at the KJV:
6 Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart;


the Greek already is translated correctly so no need for concordances.
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
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#52
what Bible Translation are you using where Ephesians 6:6 has the word [SOUL] in it?

it can only be the Original Greek:
6 not according to eye-service as pleasing men, but as servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the soul;

look at the KJV:
6 Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart;


the Greek already is translated correctly so no need for concordances.
The many English Bible versions including critical text and the Tr shows Eph. 6:6 translated the Greek psuche as "heart" (NIV, NASB, NKJV, etc), only the LSB, which has been derived from the YLb which is garbage to you have it. This seems to me that you are herding into trouble. You offered many in your post lapses but i restrained myself because they off topic. Now how would you explain conservative and critical scholars used to translate the Gk psuche as "heart" and not the "soul" in Ephesians 6:6? Thanks
 
Jun 20, 2022
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#53
The many English Bible versions including critical text and the Tr shows Eph. 6:6 translated the Greek psuche as "heart" (NIV, NASB, NKJV, etc), only the LSB, which has been derived from the YLb which is garbage to you have it. This seems to me that you are herding into trouble. You offered many in your post lapses but i restrained myself because they off topic. Now how would you explain conservative and critical scholars used to translate the Gk psuche as "heart" and not the "soul" in Ephesians 6:6? Thanks
but i know it is Soul and the majority think it is heart and i did not use a concordance. that means my translation is true! if you need a concordance maybe your translation is false and you need to find the one that is true.
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
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#54
but i know it is Soul and the majority think it is heart and i did not use a concordance. that means my translation is true! if you need a concordance maybe your translation is false and you need to find the one that is true.
Umm, how come you know it? Are you of caliber than those have translated them as heart? You are at odds my friend. I just suspect, you are still new to the bible version issue as the way you answer things, you even didn't consider that lsb were also based on the tr and masoretic text, though it got it wrong in Eph 6:6 as soul. Translation must also go for the context, if not this makes no sense.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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#55
It has always been my understanding that s.o.s was spelled out save our ship. I was a Single side-band radio operator in the USAF, also trained in sending and receiving by means of Morse code., and quite a bit more, but this does not say my life long understanding is correct. I like save our souls, but in all my days all said save our ship. Go figure.
OK, I googlled. sos was conceived in Germany as a help signal for all nations to use in order for it to be universally understood when heard. It has not verbal significance other than being the international distress call.
 
Mar 4, 2020
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#56
that's the important key here.

we know how the word ψυχή is supposed to be used by the Greek Texts. so any place we see where it's been added or has replaced another word we should immediately wonder why did this happen. for my own reasoning, i am thankful we do have the closest to the original Greek Text by what we read in Jerome's texts, the Septuagint, and the Creeds. so we know the consistency of how words are being used. that is our [Red Flag] moment when we see the English manipulate any specific word.

let's just be honest here. it is literally impossible that the original Greek is wrong.
the CREEDS alone are based off them!

so when the English translation changes over 251 Verses and adds over 1,000 words, it no longer is God's Holy Word we are reading! it's close. but not as authentic as the original Greek.
It’s definitely suspicious. I’ve decided I prefer the word for soul to be translated as soul and nothing else. I guess it’s time to find a new Bible. Any recommendations?
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
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#57
that's the important key here.

we know how the word ψυχή is supposed to be used by the Greek Texts. so any place we see where it's been added or has replaced another word we should immediately wonder why did this happen. for my own reasoning, i am thankful we do have the closest to the original Greek Text by what we read in Jerome's texts, the
If you truly read Jeromes Vulgata for Eph 6:6 you be surprise that is has the Latin phrase " ex animo" meaning "from the heart or sincerely" . The Jerome text which you say closest to the original text goes against your claim.
 

Gideon300

Well-known member
Mar 18, 2021
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#58
I originally posted this as a comment, but it didn’t get any attention and it’s buried in a thread now. However, I’m very curious about this because I know there are people way more experienced with Greek than myself so I would love some feedback on this. Thank you!

In the New Testament the word for soul is sometimes translated to say life instead. Sometimes it’s even translated as heart or mind. (See Ephesians 6:6 where it uses the word for soul but the translators chose heart and Philippians 1:27 where it uses the word for soul but the translators chose mind.)

G5590 (BibleHub link)
psuché
Strong's Concordance

psuché: breath, the soul
Original Word: ψυχή, ῆς, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: psuché
Phonetic Spelling: (psoo-khay')
Definition: breath, the soul
Usage: (a) the vital breath, breath of life, (b) the human soul, (c) the soul as the seat of affections and will, (d) the self, (e) a human person, an individual.

It’s used 104 times in the New Testament this way, often translated to say life rather than soul. The word for life (physical or spiritual) is something else and it’s G2222 (BibleHub link) in the Strong’s concordance.

Here are some random examples:

John 15:13 KJV
13Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

Matthew 11:29 KJV
29Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

Romans 11:3 KJV
3Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.

1 Peter 3:20 KJV
20Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

Any idea why they replaced the word for soul with life, or mind, or heart in the New Testament when there are already different words for life, heart, and mind in Greek that don’t actually refer to the soul? This isn’t just in the KJV, but most translations I’ve seen.

Before I’m 100% convinced on this that that most English Bibles are translated incorrectly, I really need to see if anyone can explain this for me. This isn’t a small thing. This could be one of the important translation issues for the church to be aware of.

If the word for soul was replaced with words like life, heart, or mind it changes this will dramatically change the way the Bible is interpreted.

Thank you for your time I look forward to some responses.
One of the problems with translation is the English language itself. For example, Greek has three words for love, English has one. It's the same problem with the word "life. There are three words for life also.

The answer is in Genesis 2:7. God breathed the breath of life into man and he became a living being. The KJV says "living soul" but that is inaccurate. We know that man is a tripartite being, as is God. We are spirit, soul and body. There are 3 words for "life" in Greek. They are bios, physical life, pseuche, soul-life and zoe, which some scholars say that is the uncreated life of God that Jesus has in in Himself. For example, Lord says, "I am the Way, the Truth and the Zoe". I am convinced that this is correct.

When God created man, his human spirit was empty. Adam was alive physically. His soul was also alive, as evidenced by his ability to reason, show emotion and to choose. His body was also obviously alive. When Adam disobeyed, his spirit became submerged in his soul and remained inactive. So Adam lived out of his soul. This is also known as the "natural man".

English usage in KJV times was that "soul" and "life" were synonymous, hence "S.O.S.", which is an abbreviation for "save our souls." Likewise when referring to passengers on a ship, it was not unusual to refer to them as souls. It's not common usage now. So "soul" and "life" are synonymous.

Translators try to differentiate between the soul as the organ of expression and the life that resides in the soul, which makes us who we are as individuals. The first version of the NASB translated "pseuche" as "soul-life". I don't know why that changed. Now translators use context. My understanding is that "soul-life" is a perfectly good translation.

The soul is the means of expression, as I've said before. It is not in itself evil. However, the life of the soul is natural, not spiritual. Therefore is is ruled by the principle of the knowledge of good and evil. It is this principle that causes people to be independent of God, and therefore separated from God. Men do not understand why God would reject them. That is why the Holy Spirit has to convict of sin. People imagine that because they "do the best they can", God should not find fault. Christians know better!

Christians need to realise that the life of the soul is not acceptable to God. The way of the cross is to lose the soul life and replace it with the Life of Christ. This is a lifetime work that God performs. Our trials and troubles should cause us to realise that the soul life is inadequate and bring about more and more dependence on Jesus.

We have inbuilt desires, natural talents, likes and dislikes and we are a certain temperament type. We are born like this. When these natural inclinations clash with God's will, we face a crisis. If we choose self will according to natural desire, we will suffer loss. If we submit to God's will, even if it seems the worst thing possible, we will experience great gain.

Every Christian faces his own, personal "Gethsemane". Here his will and God's will seem implacably opposed. Jesus sought to escape God's will. Yet He said, "Not my will......" and won the greatest triumph ever. We also must capitulate at some time, and escape the snare of the natural man. We then become spiritual in experience.
 

Gideon300

Well-known member
Mar 18, 2021
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#59
It’s definitely suspicious. I’ve decided I prefer the word for soul to be translated as soul and nothing else. I guess it’s time to find a new Bible. Any recommendations?
Not a good idea. Just because you don't understand something does not make you right.
 

JohnDB

Well-known member
Jan 16, 2021
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#60
Mostly because we are of a Western European mindset and not that of Ancient Near Eastern mindset we don't have a more accurate concept of a biblical "soul".

A person's soul is inclusive of body, heart, and spirit.

A spirit is somewhat similar to what we refer to today as disposition or even attitudes.

A heart is where your mind and your will meet up and cause actions. Sometimes your spirit will cause actions but usually its because your Will will teach your spirit. So you can react in a completely knee jerk reaction to something.

We don't have a person divided up in this fashion in our westernized set of thinking....but THEY did. We look at things like personality and cognitive abilities as a person's spirit....but that's not how they did it.

A Life is something that you build for yourself. It includes such things as friends and spouses, children, occupations and standing in your community. It's got very little to do with respiration. But it's related.

A person's blood was thought to belong to God....because all life was created by God. So touching something that didn't belong to you made you unclean.