Tree of "Good and Evil". What is it really?

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Sep 25, 2015
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Sure. Some of what he says is good, but with the rest he's making a parable of the whole Bible. There are group of them here who do that. It's really silly.
Well I suppose Pharaoh's dream about 3 ugly cows gobbling up 3 fat cows was pretty silly too..yet it was symbolically interpreted to have a definitive & important message, yes?
Let's face it, symbolism along with many of the ways in which the Lord speaks to us can seem 'silly' to our carnal minds but we also know that the carnal mind is enmity with God.

God has chosen the foolish things of the world to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to shame the things which are strong, and the base things of the world and the despised God has chosen, the things that are not, so that He may nullify the things that are, so that no man may boast before God. - 1 Cor 1:27-29

For the wisdom of this world is foolishness before God. For it is written, "He is THE ONE WHO CATCHES THE WISE IN THEIR CRAFTINESS" - 1 Cor 3:19


 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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Those verses you stated apply to Christians only. The point [about Rev 3] was that there are people who say they are Christians, but aren't. So your verses have no application to the post or none Christians. [if I read it correctly]. Those who persecute the Faithful will fall down at the feet of the Righteous in humiliation by the power of God. It is the same idea of "Every knee shall bow and confess Jesus is Lord".
maybe the difference here is that when you read that in Revelation, you concentrate on who you want to bow at your feet,
and when i read it, i concentrate on how Christ commended them for believing and keeping His commands,
so i think about "what are His commands and how must i live to show this patience?"
and you think about "what are the attributes of the people who will bow at my feet?"

is that accurate?

because, if they are "for Christians" they are not irrelevant, not here, not to me, not in relation to believers reading the scripture.
and Revelation 3 is a letter written to believers, not unbelievers, to commend and to chastise the Lord's own, not to condemn those that reject Him.

every knee will bow - the sheep and the goat. so humbling one's self is for both sheep and for goats. you say it yourself - do you see it? - that this is for everyone, to humble themselves, or to be humbled. it is the message that the unbeliever should hear, and the path that the believer should walk in.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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& Russ, as far as what's being called those "self deceived" who think they are the children of God, and those who truly are, which happens to be exactly what you & Convi are talking about, so it's only as "off topic" as you are yourself,

how much more clear can it be from the NT that the pharisee, who boasted of his righteousness and special station with God, was the one who was self deceived?
and how much more clear can it be that the ones who made no claims about their own glory, but feared God and looked for His mercy, were the ones who found that mercy, and love Him for it?

so if you think the parable i put from Luke is off-topic?
i hope you see it now that i've said this. because i really do think it is on topic.
i don't just post "malevolently" or with some sort of "manipulation" like some think.
i pray about what i say, and ask God to lead me to put the thing He wants me to say, and post the scripture that He leads me toward in my heart.

now, i fall, too, and speak out of place - but what i aim for, is what i just described, and that's how i came to post those scriptures on the previous page.

i'm sorry if you don't understand the connection, and if anyone is convicted by it, they should rejoice that the Spirit would teach their heart this way, instead of lashing out. i think, this also is what the scriptures here are teaching, and this is patient enduring. to have joy, not strife :)
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
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In regards to the tree of life, how did the apple work?

Were chemicals released into the air to bring on death? Was the apple poisoned? How did the action of eating a piece of fruit cause this massive chain reaction?

At least it was one of their 5-a-day

sorry I did not mean to be rude when I replyed.

apple?what apple, man taught you this, not the bible
A lot of things are taught in church that are not in the bible.
like Jonah was not swolled by a whale, theres not 3 wise men stated......ect
 
T

Tintin

Guest
Well I suppose Pharaoh's dream about 3 ugly cows gobbling up 3 fat cows was pretty silly too..yet it was symbolically interpreted to have a definitive & important message, yes?
Let's face it, symbolism along with many of the ways in which the Lord speaks to us can seem 'silly' to our carnal minds but we also know that the carnal mind is enmity with God.

God has chosen the foolish things of the world to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to shame the things which are strong, and the base things of the world and the despised God has chosen, the things that are not, so that He may nullify the things that are, so that no man may boast before God. - 1 Cor 1:27-29

For the wisdom of this world is foolishness before God. For it is written, "He is THE ONE WHO CATCHES THE WISE IN THEIR CRAFTINESS" - 1 Cor 3:19


Sister, I have no problems with symbolism, the Bible is rife with it. But some here promote something akin to a exclusively symbolic understanding of the Bible. I understand Pharaoh's dream, not only as an amazing prophecy from God that made use of figurative language that spoke the language of the Ancient Egyptians, but also as a historical event that took place between two very real people, Joseph and Pharaoh. It's not one or the other, but both. Bless you.
 
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ember

Guest
Well I suppose Pharaoh's dream about 3 ugly cows gobbling up 3 fat cows was pretty silly too..yet it was symbolically interpreted to have a definitive & important message, yes?
Let's face it, symbolism along with many of the ways in which the Lord speaks to us can seem 'silly' to our carnal minds but we also know that the carnal mind is enmity with God.

God has chosen the foolish things of the world to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to shame the things which are strong, and the base things of the world and the despised God has chosen, the things that are not, so that He may nullify the things that are, so that no man may boast before God. - 1 Cor 1:27-29

For the wisdom of this world is foolishness before God. For it is written, "He is THE ONE WHO CATCHES THE WISE IN THEIR CRAFTINESS" - 1 Cor 3:19



I'm sure you meant 7. It's 7 cows in each dream. going for the Reader's Digest version were you?

41 When two full years had passed, Pharaoh had a dream: He was standing by the Nile, 2 when out of the river there came up seven cows, sleek and fat, and they grazed among the reeds. 3 After them, seven other cows, ugly and gaunt, came up out of the Nile and stood beside those on the riverbank. 4 And the cows that were ugly and gaunt ate up the seven sleek, fat cows. Then Pharaoh woke up.
5 He fell asleep again and had a second dream: Seven heads of grain, healthy and good, were growing on a single stalk. 6 After them, seven other heads of grain sprouted—thin and scorched by the east wind. 7 The thin heads of grain swallowed up the seven healthy, full heads. Then Pharaoh woke up; it had been a dream.
8 In the morning his mind was troubled, so he sent for all the magicians and wise men of Egypt. Pharaoh told them his dreams, but no one could interpret them for him.
 
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ember

Guest
You say this because you are without understanding. There are levels of comprehension to the scriptures and what I'm seeing in this thread is Russell attempting to uncover the deeper meanings through symbolism. Symbolism is hugely important and the Word of God is 7 times refined. There are numerous interpretations to scripture, but not everyone will look deeply to try and uncover it. What I've seen is that the author of this thread wanted people to get involved and excited over discovering a message seen in the scripture and join in..but instead, there's been masses of people attacking him instead. These things should not be so.

No doubt there are things I will not agree with, however, we must not criticize that which we do not understand in another person. Nor can we judge their heart status, unless the Lord shows it to us.

did convallaria have a sister?
cause these two sure do sound alike.....


and in the maze of threads here, why does one resurrect this one after 2 wks of being on the shelf you have have to take a ladder to reach?

oh I know...I ask so many questions...

 
Sep 25, 2015
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Sister, I have no problems with symbolism, the Bible is rife with it. But some here promote something akin to a exclusively symbolic understanding of the Bible. I understand Pharaoh's dream, not only as an amazing prophecy from God that made use of figurative language that spoke the language of the Ancient Egyptians, but also as a historical event that took place between two very real people, Joseph and Pharaoh. It's not one or the other, but both. Bless you.
The points I was attempting to help you see are these:

- There was an interpretation of symbolism clearly shown in scripture.

- Dreams, Visions, God's voice, and other ways of hearing God are still valid today.

- God has not changed, He still speaks to His kids through symbolism today

- God WANTS us search those things He's concealed out.. We are all "kings & queens in Christ"
"It is the glory of God to conceal a matter, But the glory of kings is to search out a matter." - Prov 25:2

- God does not want us to persecute those who are interested in "searching out a matter". Leave them be.

- What you call "promoting something akin to a exclusively symbolic understanding of the Bible", is, in reality, simply a Christian 'searching out a matter'. (Whether the person searching comes to the proper conclusion or not is another thing, but God blesses the searching & inquiring heart seeking for truth)

- There is nothing 'exclusive' about wanting to find the treasures God has hidden in scripture. You and every other saint of God can search them out too, but unfortunately most many won't do it because they're too lazy, laidened down with a spirit of 'unbelief' (see Heb 3:12), or too busy persecuting those who do want to search out these matters.

- All Christians should be searching out the Word for themselves. As we do so, God reveals what is concealed to the inquiring heart. There is nothing wrong with that.
 
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ember

Guest
jumping to some conclusions, aren't you?

which one of the scriptures that i posted verbatim without comment or private interpretation do you consider "twisted" ?

I think she's back.............................
 
E

ember

Guest
nuh nuh nuh nuh

nuh nuh nuh nuh

hey hey hey

good bye

yes, I have seen actual hockey games in Montreal
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,844
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- God does not want us to persecute those who are interested in "searching out a matter". Leave them be.
that includes me, i hope, in both the forward & backward implication.

and "searching out a matter" includes determining by scripture & by the spirit whether a teaching or interpretation is true or not. examining doctrine, testing the spirits & proving self-proclaimed prophets and apostles (!) is not "persecution" -- it's wisdom & the will of God for us to do. searching the scriptures to see if something is true is not "despising prophecy" or "rejecting that God speaks to people" - it's noble and right.

if a thing is true, it's defensible, and the defense is more than "well i'm being persecuted so obviously i'm right"
so let's lay aside vanity, and concentrate on the Word, yes? that is (in part) the intent and meaning of the verses i put on preceding page; because we know where strife comes from - our lusts, the pride of life (James 4:1, 1 John 2:16). if we want to grow in understanding, we have to put those things away, or there won't be peace.
& that's no calculated barb -- i mean the same thing for myself; we all have one cup we should drink from: His blood, the same that redeems us is the same that condemns the flesh.
 
Sep 25, 2015
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did convallaria have a sister?
cause these two sure do sound alike.....


and in the maze of threads here, why does one resurrect this one after 2 wks of being on the shelf you have have to take a ladder to reach?

oh I know...I ask so many questions...
You really should do more thorough research. If you wish to know why a thread with Convallaria's posts in it was resurrected, you should read through some of my posts. - Essentially, it's because of your constant accusations which caused me to search out this individual in order to figure out why I'm being accused of being her. Thus you have no one to blame but yourself for her posts being resurrected. Poetic Justice served.

It is interesting indeed that the Lord brought me to this forum,
But the more they were oppressed, the more they multiplied and spread; so the Egyptians came to dread the Israelites - Exodus 1:12

Your nasty remarks on this forum towards people who believe in or function in the gifts of the Holy Spirit are duely noted.

For the record, I want all readers to know that I see nothing false or fake about that person whom you were persecuting & constantly hounding.

You will not draw me into your silly debates. You're now on "ignore".

Have at it my friend, "bonne chance"
 
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ember

Guest
You really should do more thorough research. If you wish to know why a thread with Convallaria's posts in it was resurrected, you should read through some of my posts. - Essentially, it's because of your constant accusations which caused me to search out this individual in order to figure out why I'm being accused of being her. Thus you have no one to blame but yourself for her posts being resurrected. Poetic Justice served.

It is interesting indeed that the Lord brought me to this forum,
But the more they were oppressed, the more they multiplied and spread; so the Egyptians came to dread the Israelites - Exodus 1:12

Your nasty remarks on this forum towards people who believe in or function in the gifts of the Holy Spirit are duely noted.

For the record, I want all readers to know that I see nothing false or fake about that person whom you were persecuting & constantly hounding.

You will not draw me into your silly debates. You're now on "ignore".

Have at it my friend, "bonne chance"

oh goody! thankfully, and where it really counts, God my Savior does not have me on ignore!!

my nasty remarks...yeah...right...well, that's not the message sent out by other responders to both yours and your friend the prohet...oh wait! you are both prophets!

or not

btw, you do sound so much like convallaria, that anyone could be thinking what both myself and at least one other has stated

it is rare, IMO, to come across two people with the same loveable way of posting...right down to the verbage!
 
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Galahad

Guest
You really should do more thorough research. If you wish to know why a thread with Convallaria's posts in it was resurrected, you should read through some of my posts. - Essentially, it's because of your constant accusations which caused me to search out this individual in order to figure out why I'm being accused of being her. Thus you have no one to blame but yourself for her posts being resurrected. Poetic Justice served.

It is interesting indeed that the Lord brought me to this forum,
But the more they were oppressed, the more they multiplied and spread; so the Egyptians came to dread the Israelites - Exodus 1:12

Your nasty remarks on this forum towards people who believe in or function in the gifts of the Holy Spirit are duely noted.

For the record, I want all readers to know that I see nothing false or fake about that person whom you were persecuting & constantly hounding.

You will not draw me into your silly debates. You're now on "ignore".

Have at it my friend, "bonne chance"
I see you've come across embers. You now know that they are harmful. Destructive. They sit and wait and then suddenly, as if a demon was a stirring inside, Embers ignite and cause strife and make war. You did good by ignore.
 
G

Galahad

Guest
CAUTION:
This is vintage Ember. One fiery mouth. She's a burner. Very much so.
oh goody! thankfully, and where it really counts,
my nasty remarks...you are both prophets!...
 
Sep 29, 2015
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Ezekiel 31 Give us a glimpse into what was happening in the Garden of Eden. Adam and Eve were not eating an apple as we were taught. The tree was not a green leafy tree under which they sat. The scripture many times uses metaphors to explain simple truths. I think these metaphors come about, because the real meaning has been lost over time. I'm sure the book of Genesis was given by oral tradition for years until written down.

Ezek 31:1-18...., the word of the LORD came to me: “Son of man, say to Pharaoh king of Egypt and his hordes: ​​​​​​“‘Who are you like in your greatness? ​​​Consider Assyria, a cedar in Lebanon, ​​​​​​with beautiful branches, like a forest giving shade, ​​​​​​and extremely tall; ​​​​​​its top reached into the clouds. ​​​​​​​The water made it grow; ​​​​​​underground springs made it grow tall. ​​​​​​Rivers flowed all around the place it was planted, ​​​​​​while smaller channels watered all the trees of the field. ​​​​​​​Therefore it grew taller than all the trees of the field; ​​​​​​its boughs grew large and its branches grew long, ​​​​​​because of the plentiful water in its shoots. ​​​​​​​All the birds of the sky nested in its boughs; ​​​​​​under its branches all the beasts of the field gave birth, ​​​​​​in its shade all the great nations lived. ​​​​​​​It was beautiful in its loftiness, in the length of its branches; ​​​​​​for its roots went down deep to plentiful waters. ​​​​​​​The cedars in the garden of God could not eclipse it, ​​​​​​nor could the fir trees match its boughs; ​​​​​​the plane trees were as nothing compared to its branches; ​​​​​​no tree in the garden of God could rival its beauty. ​​​​​​​I made it beautiful with its many branches; ​​​​​​all the trees of Eden, in the garden of God, envied it.
“‘Therefore this is what the sovereign LORD says: Because it was tall in stature, and its top reached into the clouds, and it was proud of its height,
I gave it over to the leader of the nations. He has judged it thoroughly, as its sinfulness deserves. I have thrown it out. Foreigners from the most terrifying nations have cut it down and left it to lie there on the mountains. In all the valleys its branches have fallen, and its boughs lie broken in the ravines of the land. All the peoples of the land have departed from its shade and left it. On its ruins all the birds of the sky will live, and all the wild animals will walk on its branches. For this reason no watered trees will grow so tall; their tops will not reach into the clouds, nor will the well-watered ones grow that high. For all of them have been appointed to die in the lower parts of the earth; they will be among mere mortals, with those who descend to the pit. “‘This is what the sovereign LORD says: On the day it went down to Sheol I caused observers to lament. I covered it with the deep and held back its rivers; its plentiful water was restrained. I clothed Lebanon in black for it, and all the trees of the field wilted because of it. I made the nations shake at the sound of its fall, when I threw it down to Sheol, along with those who descend to the pit. Then all the trees of Eden, the choicest and the best of Lebanon, all that were well-watered, were comforted in the earth below. Those who lived in its shade, its allies among the nations, also went down with it to Sheol, to those killed by the sword.Which of the trees of Eden was like you in majesty and loftiness? You will be brought down with the trees of Eden to the lower parts of the earth; you will lie among the uncircumcised, with those killed by the sword! This is what will happen to Pharaoh and all his hordes, declares the sovereign LORD.’”

The trees spoken of go back to the Garden of Eden, which means they were thousands of years old. These were not men because men are mentioned in the text. These were beyond men and existed in the Garden of Eden. When Adam was told to tend to the trees of the Garden, he was tending to teachers who bore fruit [teachings]. When Eve brought Adam fruit to eat, it was teachings. The trees are angelic beings who are over countries and existed from the time of the Garden of Eden.

So your saying these "trees" are like something inside us which is more like a spirit concept, that is very old and found in us all.
It is ancient, like a Drive or an Urge which comes from some place we recognize as outside of our own thinking?
Like say, Lust.
 
Sep 29, 2015
89
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The points I was attempting to help you see are these:

- There was an interpretation of symbolism clearly shown in scripture.

- Dreams, Visions, God's voice, and other ways of hearing God are still valid today.

- God has not changed, He still speaks to His kids through symbolism today

- God WANTS us search those things He's concealed out.. We are all "kings & queens in Christ"
"It is the glory of God to conceal a matter, But the glory of kings is to search out a matter." - Prov 25:2

- God does not want us to persecute those who are interested in "searching out a matter". Leave them be.

- What you call "promoting something akin to a exclusively symbolic understanding of the Bible", is, in reality, simply a Christian 'searching out a matter'. (Whether the person searching comes to the proper conclusion or not is another thing, but God blesses the searching & inquiring heart seeking for truth)

- There is nothing 'exclusive' about wanting to find the treasures God has hidden in scripture. You and every other saint of God can search them out too, but unfortunately most many won't do it because they're too lazy, laidened down with a spirit of 'unbelief' (see Heb 3:12), or too busy persecuting those who do want to search out these matters.

- All Christians should be searching out the Word for themselves. As we do so, God reveals what is concealed to the inquiring heart. There is nothing wrong with that.

Yes.
Search the scriptures is recommended.
It is the oil in our lamps, Matt 25:1.
Symbols come from the Right Hemisphere of the brain. That is a source of thinking which is less used than the Left Hemisphere. Symbols generate ideas which words often fail to do as well.


Acts 17:11
These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so





The thing about symbolism is that meanings stick better that using words. Words change over the years. But a snake is always the snake.





 
T

Tintin

Guest
oh goody! thankfully, and where it really counts, God my Savior does not have me on ignore!!

my nasty remarks...yeah...right...well, that's not the message sent out by other responders to both yours and your friend the prohet...oh wait! you are both prophets!

or not

btw, you do sound so much like convallaria, that anyone could be thinking what both myself and at least one other has stated

it is rare, IMO, to come across two people with the same loveable way of posting...right down to the verbage!
And being so quick to agree with and to promote RJB's 'teachings'. Hmm...
 
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