Tree of the Knowledge of Good & Evil and being Joint Heirs with Christ.

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posthuman

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For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the One who subjected it

Every created person is subject to frustration born with a sinful nature because of one.
'bondage to decay' -- that's not talking about only humans, is it? all of this creation we live in is in bondage to decay. was the cosmos originally meant to be all decay and death with the sole exception of humans?
 

posthuman

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I think It says the creation meaning the human, what animal waits in eager expectation, do trees think and wait eagerly
my cat is currently meowing out the window in eager expectation of being allowed to prance about the lawn and play with squirrels .. :)
 

JamOn

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'bondage to decay' -- that's not talking about only humans, is it? all of this creation we live in is in bondage to decay. was the cosmos originally meant to be all decay and death with the sole exception of humans?
Yes but that verse is been misconstrued as meaning every thing created thing will there be a sun?
 

JamOn

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my cat is currently meowing out the window in eager expectation of being allowed to prance about the lawn and play with squirrels .. :)
Yes that is instinct, animals long to run free in the wild, that is where they belong but humans have cross bread animals and have brought them into their homes. the modern cats and dogs have in their homes are designed hybrids of other animals. there are no poodles in nature most pet animals like cats and dogs have been engineered through cross breading.
 

posthuman

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You may think Isaiah is speaking of trees literally singing buts it figurative
not just Isaiah 55; also 1 Chronicles 16 and Psalm 96.

which part is figurative, the 'hands' bit or creation rejoicing? are these passages what Paul was thinking of when he wrote that about 'the creation' in Romans 8? if so he's not just talking about humans. Christ said the stones would cry out - and said He is able to raise up children of Abraham from the stones, which, seeing that we are made of dust + breath of life, isn't entirely figurative.

this stuff, dude, it's beyond us. to God everything is alive but to us, we hardly have eyes to see as it is.
 

JamOn

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not just Isaiah 55; also 1 Chronicles 16 and Psalm 96.

which part is figurative, the 'hands' bit or creation rejoicing? are these passages what Paul was thinking of when he wrote that about 'the creation' in Romans 8? if so he's not just talking about humans. Christ said the stones would cry out - and said He is able to raise up children of Abraham from the stones, which, seeing that we are made of dust + breath of life, isn't entirely figurative.

this stuff, dude, it's beyond us. to God everything is alive but to us, we hardly have eyes to see as it is.
Yes it’s figurative as like.

Habakkuk 2
11For the stones will cry out from the wall, and the rafters will echo it from the woodwork.
 

JamOn

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I love cats and dogs also but I’m not so sure that is right to cross bread animals for our own pleasures. that is how they came about personal pleasures or for amusements.
 

posthuman

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Yes that is instinct, animals long to run free in the wild, that is where they belong but humans have cross bread animals and have brought them into their homes. the modern cats and dogs have in their homes are designed hybrids of other animals. there are no poodles in nature most pet animals like cats and dogs have been engineered through cross breading.
have you ever lived with cats? there's a lot behind those eyes that's not just instinct, IMO. they are intelligent & display emotions. they play jokes and they show gratitude and offense. they hold grudges and express forgiveness. they rejoice and they mourn. this cat currently expressing his desire to get out of the house for a bit, he wouldn't be running back to thank me for letting him play in the grass and leaves if it was just instinctively wanting to hunt.
i have another cat who goes in and out, and he brings in chipmunks often from the woods. it's true that some he eats, but the majority he seems to be inviting in as friends. he sits there and purrs while they eat his food and drink his water, and he doesn't harm them. i've watched him grow up getting better and better at catching them unharmed, and i can't even count how many i've had to catch in the house and bring back outside. he gets really pissy with me if he sees me doing this so we've had to contrive elaborate distractions and pretend losing them was 'accidental' lol
just to say -- as most any pet owner will tell you -- animals have a complexity and intelligence that's way beyond simple instinctive behavior, and they will do things contrary to instinct. of course different animals have varying degrees of this kind of behavior, and even different individuals. and of course it's on a simpler level than humans - but humans show the same kind of mix of instinct & reason & emotion. just the other day i was telling a co-worker who recently became a first-time cat owner, it's not that they are so much like us, but really, we are just like them -- we do the same things, only we do it at a more sophisticated level.
 

posthuman

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Yes but that verse is been misconstrued as meaning every thing created thing will there be a sun?
a new heavens and a new earth -- and no more sun, no more sea. goodness, what about fishes? that's a really big topic that i honestly don't think anyone but God sees clearly, what will be. i am totally unqualified to say, even if i do have some kind of rudimentary familiarity with the Bible.
 

JamOn

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have you ever lived with cats? there's a lot behind those eyes that's not just instinct, IMO. they are intelligent & display emotions. they play jokes and they show gratitude and offense. they hold grudges and express forgiveness. they rejoice and they mourn. thsi cat currently expressing his desire to get out of the house for a bit, he wouldn't be running back to thank me for letting him play in the grass and leaves if it was just instinctively wanting to hunt.
i have another cat who goes in and out, and he brings in chipmunks often from the woods. it's true that some he eats, but the majority he seems to be inviting in as friends. he sits there and purrs while they eat his food and drink his water, and he doesn't harm them. i've watched him grow up getting better and better at catching them unharmed, and i can't even count how many i've had to catch in the house and bring back outside. he gets really pissy with me if he sees me doing this so we've had to contrive elaborate distractions and pretend losing them was 'accidental' lol
just to say -- as most any pet owner will tell you -- animals have a complexity and intelligence that's way beyond simple instinctive behavior, and they will do things contrary to instinct. of course different animals have varying degrees of this kind of behavior, and even different individuals. and of course it's on a simpler level than humans - but humans show the same kind of mix of instinct & reason & emotion. just the other day i was telling a co-worker who recently became a first-time cat owner, it's not that they are so much like us, but really, we are just like them -- we do the same things, only we do it at a more sophisticated level.
Yes I have had cats, one I loved a lot in which I found as a stray wouldn’t use the litter box was like a dog scratching at the door to be let out to go to it’s business, well long story short the neighbors kids throw my cat in their backyard with pit bulls I miss her at times she was such a good cat.
 

JamOn

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a new heavens and a new earth -- and no more sun, no more sea. goodness, what about fishes? that's a really big topic that i honestly don't think anyone but God sees clearly, what will be. i am totally unqualified to say, even if i do have some kind of rudimentary familiarity with the Bible.
Yes I agree I am not 100% sure either there could be a part of heaven in heaven for animals and humans go in and out to find green pastures to walk their pets, anything is possible with God.
 

JamOn

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Some animals are pretty smart may have to rethink this on the spirit of animals.

 

JohnR7

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how many people, in your opinion, were saved from the flood?
Noah his wife, four sons and four daughter in laws. That adds up to 10 people. We read about: "sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful, and they took as wives whomever they chose." (Genesis6:1) My idea of who the sons of God and the daughters of men is different then what most people believe. But these are the people that were killed in the flood.

If we go to Cheddar England we find the descendants of Cheddar man from around 10,000 years ago. So it is pretty obvious that Noah's flood did not kill the people that were living in Cheddar England at the time. Noah's flood involved the people that were living in the Tigris - Euphrates River valley. We call this Mesopotamia and there were two groups of people living there at the time. The Sumerians and the Semitic people. The Phoenicians were Semitic.
 

posthuman

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Some animals are pretty smart may have to rethink this on the spirit of animals.

got to keep in mind that a living soul is not just a physical body. the physical body is a biological interface between the soul and the physical world. a cat or a camel or a chimpanzee, if it has a soul, isn't any necessarily less sophisticated than a human in terms of the person -- they have different bodies, different physical brains and hearts, and it may be that what we observe as them being 'lesser' than us is only a result of them having less sophisticated equipment to interact with the world than we do.

we got nice brains & hearts. you know? a person driving a car with a 6-figure price tag isn't necessarily any better of a driver than someone in a $350 beater. the performance and agility of the vehicle isn't the right way to measure the skill and maturity of the driver. so it is with the physical body -- i ain't necessarily any smarter than a person with brain damage; i just have a nicer interface than they do.
 

posthuman

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Noah his wife, four sons and four daughter in laws. That adds up to 10 people. We read about: "sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful, and they took as wives whomever they chose." (Genesis6:1) My idea of who the sons of God and the daughters of men is different then what most people believe. But these are the people that were killed in the flood.

If we go to Cheddar England we find the descendants of Cheddar man from around 10,000 years ago. So it is pretty obvious that Noah's flood did not kill the people that were living in Cheddar England at the time. Noah's flood involved the people that were living in the Tigris - Euphrates River valley. We call this Mesopotamia and there were two groups of people living there at the time. The Sumerians and the Semitic people. The Phoenicians were Semitic.
why is God filling the ark with animals of every kind if only a comparably very small area of the world is being destroyed?
nobody's about to go extinct in your view.
 

JohnR7

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Cockroach milk will be the knew next superfood, and cockroaches have health benefits in Brazil they ground them up and put them in tea
When I was in Manila the food vendors cooked them on a stick and people ate them.
 

JamOn

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got to keep in mind that a living soul is not just a physical body. the physical body is a biological interface between the soul and the physical world. a cat or a camel or a chimpanzee, if it has a soul, isn't any necessarily less sophisticated than a human in terms of the person -- they have different bodies, different physical brains and hearts, and it may be that what we observe as them being 'lesser' than us is only a result of them having less sophisticated equipment to interact with the world than we do.

we got nice brains & hearts. you know? a person driving a car with a 6-figure price tag isn't necessarily any better of a driver than someone in a $350 beater. the performance and agility of the vehicle isn't the right way to measure the skill and maturity of the driver. so it is with the physical body -- i ain't necessarily any smarter than a person with brain damage; i just have a nicer interface than they do.
the one difference I do see is animals where never mentioned as created in the likeness of God.

Man Being made in the image and likeness of God means that human beings are like God not saying we are gods but God is a spiritual being. so if man was the only creation that is in that likeness then man in my opinion seems to be the only ones who depart earthly life in a spiritual way.