Trinity vs. Oneness

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Are you Trinitarian, or Sabellian (Oneness, usually, Oneness Pentecostal)?

  • Trinitarian

    Votes: 45 77.6%
  • Sabellion

    Votes: 6 10.3%
  • What's the difference?

    Votes: 7 12.1%

  • Total voters
    58
O

ONE_LORD

Guest
that is the typical baptist-catholic response.. just because mommy believed it and taught it to you does not make it true.. ppl say these words divide ... and I agree.. the truth divides the sheep from the goats - religionist baptism alone can not save you but as you use ALL scripture for doctrine you will see.. you must be born again of water and spirit.. 1Peter 3:20,21 tells us baptism does save us.. now not by itself.. in acts 10:48 the command to be baptized in JESUS name was given..... Acts 2:38,39
repent AND be batized EVERY one of you in THE NAME! and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.... then you must live a holy life proving yourself acceptable to God! It is not once saved always saved as many think.... Rev. tells us your name can be blotted out.. that means your name has to be written before it can be blotted.. do not hang your savation on one verse and exclude the rest of Gods Word! In JESUS name
 
C

Crazy4GODword

Guest
I am not being aggressive if i am then forgive me but i am showing only my opinion on this matter and i am not forcing you to believe because this is my opinion and mine i stand you do not have to follow me just to let you know friend.......
This is not where i started to believe Jesus is God but did find info that He is.........
please read these verses. I have gotten this information from http://bugman123.com/Bible/JesusIsGod.html

Matthew 1:23 - “Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel,” which is translated, “God with us.”

Isaiah 9:6 - For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Isaiah 43:10,11 - “You are My witnesses,” says the Lord, “And My servant whom I have chosen, That you may know and believe Me, and understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, Nor shall there be after Me. I, even I, am the Lord, and besides Me there is no Savior.”
Revelation 1:17-18; Revelation 2:8 - (Jesus is the First and the Last)

Isaiah 44:6 - (God is the Redeemer)
2 Peter 1:1 (Jesus is the Redeemer) - “To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ”

Isaiah 44:24 - (God created the world by His self alone)
John 1:3; Colossians 1:16 - (Jesus made all things)

John 1:1 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God... 1:14 - And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us,

John 5:17,18 - “My Father has been working until now, and I have been working.” Therefore the Jews sought to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God.

John 5:23 - that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.

John 8:24 - “Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I AM He, you will die in your sins.”

John 8:58 - Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”

John 10:30-33 - Jesus answered them, “I and My Father are one.” Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him. Jesus answered them, “Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?” The Jews answered Him, saying, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God.”

John 14:6-7 - Jesus said to him, “I AM the way, the truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.”

John 14:9-11 - Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?”

John 20:28 - And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”

Acts 4:12 - “Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”

Acts 20:28 - (God purchased us with His own blood)
Revelation 1:5,6; Revelation 5:8-9 - (Jesus' blood purchased us)

Philippians 2:5-7 - Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bond-servant, and coming in the likeness of men.

1 Timothy 3:16 - And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory.

Titus 2:13 - looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ

Hebrews 1:8,9 - But to the Son He (God) says: “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom. You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You with the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”

2 John 1:7 - For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

Revelation 1:8 - “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”

Revelation 22:13 - “I AM the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”... 22:16 - “I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches.”


Hebrews 2:17,18 - “Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. For in that He Himself has suffered, being tempted, He is able to aid those who are tempted.”
Hebrews 4:15,16 - “For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin. Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need.”
1 Peter 2:24 - “who Himself bore our sins in His own body on the tree, that we having died to sins, might live for righteousness - by whose stripes you were healed.”

He went from sovereignty to shame and from deity to death? Why!? For you.
John 15:13 - “Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one's life for his friends.”
Romans 5:8 - “But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”
...............................................................

And these verses and info is from http://carm.org/bible-verses-show-jesus-divine

Bible verses that show Jesus is Divine
by Matt Slick

Following are verses used to show that Jesus is God in flesh. The scriptures used here are from the New American Standard Bible.

John 1:1 - "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

John 1:14 - "And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth."

John 5:18 - "For this cause therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God."

John 8:24 - "I said therefore to you, that you shall die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you shall die in your sins."
Note: In the Greek, "He" is not there.

John 8:58 - "Jesus said to them, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.'"

Exodus 3:14 - "And God said to Moses, 'I AM WHO I AM'; and He said, Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’"

John 10:30-33 - "I and the Father are one." 31 The Jews took up stones again to stone Him. 32 Jesus answered them, "I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?" 33 The Jews answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God."

John 20:28 - "Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!"

Col. 2:9 - "For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form."

Phil. 2:5-8 - "Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. 9 Therefore also God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those who are in heaven, and on earth, and under the earth, 11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."

Heb. 1:8 - "But of the Son He says, "Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever, and the righteous scepter is the scepter of His kingdom."

Quoted from Psalm 45:6, "Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever; a scepter of uprightness is the scepter of Thy kingdom."

...........
GBU friend and i am not trying to be mean but my own opinion, you do not have to believe me if you do not want to
 
O

ONE_LORD

Guest
amen and amen saith the Lord
 
D

DanuckInUSA

Guest
I go trinity.
 
O

ONE_LORD

Guest
even the demons believe there is one God and tremble
 
C

Crazy4GODword

Guest
even the demons believe there is one God and tremble
Yep and one God we stand a hold on, even through the earthquakes shake we stand firm!
 
G

GraceBeUntoYou

Guest
Thought I'd make a few comments from an apologetics stand-point in regards to 2 Peter 1:1, and Titus 2:13.

As some know, I am an avid supporter, and firm believer in Deity of Christ to the Nth degree, perhaps even a "staunch" Trinitarian. I thought that since these passages kept popping up vaguely in discussion that I would offer a bit of helpful information to those that are like-minded.


2 Peter 1:1, and Titus 2:13 are examples of what is called the Granville Sharp TSKS ("The"-"Substantive"-"Kai"-"Substantive") rule -- if two personal nouns which are not proper names, such as, John, James, Paul, Peter, et al. are preceded by a single definite article "ho" ("the") and are connected together by the copulative "kai" ("and"), then both nouns are in reference to one individual.


For example:
Ephesians 1:3, "ho Theos kai Pater" ("the God and Father")

Hebrews 3:1, "ton Apostolos kai Archiereus" ("the Apostle and High Priest")

Ephesians 6:21, "ho egapetos adelphos kai pistos diskonos" ("the beloved brother and faithful minister")
Likewise, 2 Peter 1:1 says,
2 Peter 1:1, "...tou Theou hemon kai Soteros Iseou Christou" ("...the God and Savior Jesus Christ")
That being said, the King James Bible, and the American Standard (not to be confused with the New American Standard) does not do justice in regards to 2 Peter 1:1, or Titus 2:13. The American Standard actually adds an additional definite article to make it appear as if two people are in view, likewise, the KJV does something very similar:
"Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:" -- 2 Peter 1:1, KJV

"Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained a like precious faith with us in the righteousness of our God and the'saviour Jesus Christ:" -- 2 Peter 1:1, ASV
However, when it comes to passages that are identical in construction, word-for-word, to that of 2 Peter 1:1, with the exception of the use of Kuriou ("Lord"), instead of Theou ("God"), such as seen in 2 Peter 1:11, 2 Peter 2:20, and 2 Peter 3:18, these two translations, the ASV and KJV, refer the two nouns "Lord" and "Savior" to the same Person, Christ Jesus, yet, they refer "God" and "Savior" to two Persons in 2 Peter 1:1. Let's have a look:
2 Peter 3:18, "...tou Kuriou hemon kai Soteros Iseou Christou" ("...the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ")

2 Peter 2:20, "...tou Kuriou hemon kai Soteros Iseou Christou" ("...the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ")

2 Peter 1:11, "...tou Kuriou hemon kai Soteros Iseou Christou" ("...the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ")
For argument sake, compare these three constructions above side-by-side with 2 Peter 1:1, and we'll find that they read exactly the same, and refer both nouns to Christ:
2 Peter 1:1, "...tou Theou hemon kai Soteros Iseou Christou" ("...the God and Savior Jesus Christ")
If we examine 2 Peter 1:1 in light of 2 Peter 1:11, 2 Peter 2:20, and 2 Peter 3:18, the Greek construction is remarkably identical. If the two nouns "Lord," and "Savior" in 2 Peter 1:11, 2 Peter 2:20, and 2 Peter 3:18 refer to one Person then so does "God," and "Savior" refer to one Person, Christ Jesus, in 2 Peter 1:1.

Aside from 2 Peter 1:1, Titus 2:13 is another example of Granville Sharp's TSKS construction.
 
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VW

Banned
Dec 22, 2009
4,579
9
0
Much of the difficulty comes from needing to reconcile the fact of God the Son taking on flesh. In doing so, He became the pattern for our eternal existence. This necessitated His taking a subservient stance with the Father, somewhat beneath that of Devine Son, Word of God. The simple fact is that God became flesh in order to reconcile us back to Himself, to set to rights what had been corrupted and despoiled by the works of the devil.

God reveals Himself to each person who seeks Him in order to know Him, in a personal and individual way. He does this because we are each individual, and He is perfectly able to individually relate to each of us. It's not even taxing of His abilities.

What we should not do is judge or condemn another for the way they have come to know God, if it is through Jesus Christ.

There is much more room in heaven than we are many times willing to admit. The Father's house has many rooms, and Jesus went to prepare a place for all who come to God through Him.
 
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ONE_LORD

Guest
the most basic truth is the oneness of God. if you dont get that , you might as well throw in the towel!!
 
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Scotth1960

Guest
the most basic truth is the oneness of God. if you dont get that , you might as well throw in the towel!!
Dear ONE LORD, The most basic truth from a Christian perspective is that the One God is Father, Son and Holy Spirit. So God is both One God Only and Three Persons. To not believe that is to believe in Judaism or Islam, or Unitarianism or Deism, perhaps, but not Biblical NT Christianity. And the OT teaches the Trinity, too. Right there in Genesis 1:26. THE TRINITY IS THERE AT THE BEGINNING OF THE TIME OF THE BIBLE IN GENESIS 1:26. In Erie PA Scott Harrington
 
C

Crazy4GODword

Guest
Dear ONE LORD, The most basic truth from a Christian perspective is that the One God is Father, Son and Holy Spirit. So God is both One God Only and Three Persons. To not believe that is to believe in Judaism or Islam, or Unitarianism or Deism, perhaps, but not Biblical NT Christianity. And the OT teaches the Trinity, too. Right there in Genesis 1:26. THE TRINITY IS THERE AT THE BEGINNING OF THE TIME OF THE BIBLE IN GENESIS 1:26. In Erie PA Scott Harrington
I was talking about the Trinity in the beginning and posted it. but thank you for reminding
 
I

Israel

Guest
I was talking about the Trinity in the beginning and posted it. but thank you for reminding
The problem with the trinity is that "Jesus" was not there in the beginning as we think. The "us" is not Him.

Proverbs 8:14-30

14Counsel is mine, and sound wisdom: I am understanding; I have strength.

15By me kings reign, and princes decree justice.
16By me princes rule, and nobles, even all the judges of the earth.
17I love them that love me; and those that seek me early shall find me.
18Riches and honour are with me; yea, durable riches and righteousness.
19My fruit is better than gold, yea, than fine gold; and my revenue than choice silver.
20I lead in the way of righteousness, in the midst of the paths of judgment:
21That I may cause those that love me to inherit substance; and I will fill their treasures.
22The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
23I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
24When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.
25Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:
26While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.
27When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:
28When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:
29When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth: 30Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;

This is who the "us" is in Genesis.
 
C

Crazy4GODword

Guest
The problem with the trinity is that "Jesus" was not there in the beginning as we think. The "us" is not Him.

Proverbs 8:14-30

14Counsel is mine, and sound wisdom: I am understanding; I have strength.

15By me kings reign, and princes decree justice.
16By me princes rule, and nobles, even all the judges of the earth.
17I love them that love me; and those that seek me early shall find me.
18Riches and honour are with me; yea, durable riches and righteousness.
19My fruit is better than gold, yea, than fine gold; and my revenue than choice silver.
20I lead in the way of righteousness, in the midst of the paths of judgment:
21That I may cause those that love me to inherit substance; and I will fill their treasures.
22The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
23I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
24When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.
25Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:
26While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.
27When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:
28When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:
29When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth: 30Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;

This is who the "us" is in Genesis.
have ye also read my list of verses i have looked up that shows Jesus' divine, for all man has sin and if Jesus was just fully man then why did He not sin.
 
I

Israel

Guest
have ye also read my list of verses i have looked up that shows Jesus' divine, for all man has sin and if Jesus was just fully man then why did He not sin.
Was it not you who commented on what I said in the "What is the Lord creating" thread? This was the work He set out to do. The Word or image of the invisible Spirit became flesh. He has created Himself in Jesus.


Hebrews 1:5-6

5For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
6And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
 
S

Scotth1960

Guest
Trinity vs. Oneness, why or why not?

For my position, refer to page 3 of the 'YHVH + Jesus + Holy Spirit' discussion: http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/13953-yhvh-jesus-holy-spirit-3.html

Dear GraceBeUntoYou, Here is something on Oneness Pentecostalism versus Trinitarianism in this section of a book on "Christianity in Crisis: The 21st Century" on popular preacher T.D. Jakes. I read:
"Despite his convictions regarding the power of words, Jakes reduces differences between Trinitarians and Oneness Pentecostals to a mere "mater of semantics". This despite the Oneness Pentecostal belief that unless you are baptized using the correct formula, you are not even saved. Their conviction that one must be baptized in the name of Jesus only has led to the further error that Jesus is Himself the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit -- or as Jakes is wont to say -- one God in three "manifestations". Indeed, Oneness adherents routinely dismiss the doctrine of the Trinity as a pagan polytheistic philosophy.
"In truth, the Trinity is neither pagan polytheism nor pagan philosophy. Rather, it is biblically based. Scripture plainly reveals personal self-distinction within the Godhead. As such, the Father says of the Son, "Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever" (Hebrews 1:8); and the Son says of the Father, "I am the one who testifies for myself; for my other witness is the Father, who sent me" (John 8:18). Moreover, the very fact that Jesus prays to the Father demonstrates that Jesus cannot merely reduced to a manifestation of the Father. While I am frequently told by Oneness adherents that this is explained by the notion that Jesus' human nature prays to His divine nature, this is clearly not the case -- natures can't pray; only persons can". [pages 53-54:
Hank Hanegraaff. (2009). Christianity In Crisis: 21st Century. Nashville, TN: Thomas Nelson. ].

In Erie PA Glory to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit; now and ever, and unto the ages of ages; AMEN! Sincerely, Scott R. Harrington

 
O

ONE_LORD

Guest
The Truth that Jesus is God in the flesh is not for the mockers and unbelievers! Thomas called Jesus my Lord and My God.... if Jesus were not God then He would have admonished him on the spot!!! 1Tim. 3:16.. the Word says it plainly..
 
S

Scotth1960

Guest
have ye also read my list of verses i have looked up that shows Jesus' divine, for all man has sin and if Jesus was just fully man then why did He not sin.
Dear Crazy4GODword, John 1:1 contradicts your error. "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was with God in the beginning". Jesus Christ is the Word. He was with God in the beginning. Yes, Jesus is part of the "us" in Genesis 1:26. The Us is The Father, The Son, and the Holy Spirit speaking as We, as "us" three persons together in one Godhead. In One God.
THE TRINITY! Which the unbelieving Jews and Muslims Deists and Humanists and Atheists and Unitarians and Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons all deny! In Erie PA Scott Harrington
 
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Scotth1960

Guest
have ye also read my list of verses i have looked up that shows Jesus' divine, for all man has sin and if Jesus was just fully man then why did He not sin.
Dear Crazy3GODword, I APOLOGIZE. YOU WERE QUOTING ISRAEL, AND HE, NOT YOU, SAID THAT CHRIST WAS NOT IN THE BEGINNING WITH GOD. MY SINCERE APOLOGIES. YOU QUOTED ISRAEL AND I MISREAD YOUR POST AND ATTRIBUTED ISRAEL'S COMMENTS TO YOU. SORRY. I AM MISTAKEN HERE. ANYWAY, DO YOU BELIEVE CHRIST WAS IN THE BEGINNING WITH GOD IN GENESIS 1:26? AMEN. IN ERIE SCOTT H.
 
I

Israel

Guest
Dear Crazy3GODword, I APOLOGIZE. YOU WERE QUOTING ISRAEL, AND HE, NOT YOU, SAID THAT CHRIST WAS NOT IN THE BEGINNING WITH GOD. MY SINCERE APOLOGIES. YOU QUOTED ISRAEL AND I MISREAD YOUR POST AND ATTRIBUTED ISRAEL'S COMMENTS TO YOU. SORRY. I AM MISTAKEN HERE. ANYWAY, DO YOU BELIEVE CHRIST WAS IN THE BEGINNING WITH GOD IN GENESIS 1:26? AMEN. IN ERIE SCOTT H.

The Word was there. Jesus was born.
 
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Scotth1960

Guest
The Word was there. Jesus was born.
True. Jesus existed in the beginning with God as the WORD. He was born IN TIME as a man, the God-man. He became incarnate in the Virgin Mary through the power of the Holy Spirit, begotten of the Father, as the only-Begotten Son of God.