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S
[quote=miktre;297133]I've seen a whole lot of people attack the Trinity doctrine as if God will no longer present Himself like this.
They shame people for their love of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
This is the very nature of our one God.
God will not change this ever!
New Jerusalem
22And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.[/quote]
I agree wholeheartedly with you. We have nothing to be ashamed about the Gospel. I am not ashamed of the Gospel, it is the power of God unto salvation for all who believeth. Part of the Gospel is the Trinity. And the Cross, the resurrection of Christ, salvation by Christ's blood, confession of sins, repentance, baptism in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit, which is the same baptism in Jesus' name in Acts.
A person can be ashamed of sins they have committed. It is no sin to believe in the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. It is an error and a sin against truth to call Trinity doctrine an error. In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington
They shame people for their love of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
This is the very nature of our one God.
God will not change this ever!
New Jerusalem
22And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.[/quote]
I agree wholeheartedly with you. We have nothing to be ashamed about the Gospel. I am not ashamed of the Gospel, it is the power of God unto salvation for all who believeth. Part of the Gospel is the Trinity. And the Cross, the resurrection of Christ, salvation by Christ's blood, confession of sins, repentance, baptism in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit, which is the same baptism in Jesus' name in Acts.
A person can be ashamed of sins they have committed. It is no sin to believe in the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. It is an error and a sin against truth to call Trinity doctrine an error. In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington
When pressed for such a descriptive title recently, I summarized it as Merismos Monotheism. But I don't like labels and isms. Aletheia (truth) is a good descriptor.
The view of Sabellius (he didn't originate the teaching, he was just the most visible and influential proponent) is incomplete in the same way and area that Trinity is: Simplicity. The "modes" or "manifestations" are not distinct enough to illustrate HOW God is one, so the simultaneity of F-S-HS is difficult to account for, as you well know. Modes makes no individual distinction between F-S-HS; Persons makes them discrete. The trurh lies in between, with Trinity being further from the truth.
Pronouns are a language construct. Until you understand the non-Trinity truth, you won't understand how the Word wasn't pre-existent AS a separate distinct "person". Trinitarians ignore every singular pronoun rendering.
Yes. Amyraldists view Limited Atonement as Specific Atonement, so it's an attempt to minimize double predestination, etc.
See above. No, I'm not any real form of Calvi or Armi.
I simply reject the Original Sin doctrine in favor of scripture. I understand the constitution of man from scripture, so inheriting physical death from Adam was sufficient without adding all the mess that leads to the false dichotomy of Calvi-Armi.
Not for me. Monergism versus Synergism is largely a false dichotomy. Understanding God's constitution resolves much of what His "will" is, and how it functions. Trinity is error of incompleteness. Let the word cut through for the complete truth and displace this insufficient doctrine.
I'll just sum this all up as anyone can believe any conpatible somethings that they choose, I suppose.
No. Faith is not creedal.
S
When pressed for such a descriptive title recently, I summarized it as Merismos Monotheism. But I don't like labels and isms. Aletheia (truth) is a good descriptor.
The view of Sabellius (he didn't originate the teaching, he was just the most visible and influential proponent) is incomplete in the same way and area that Trinity is: Simplicity. The "modes" or "manifestations" are not distinct enough to illustrate HOW God is one, so the simultaneity of F-S-HS is difficult to account for, as you well know. Modes makes no individual distinction between F-S-HS; Persons makes them discrete. The trurh lies in between, with Trinity being further from the truth.
Pronouns are a language construct. Until you understand the non-Trinity truth, you won't understand how the Word wasn't pre-existent AS a separate distinct "person". Trinitarians ignore every singular pronoun rendering.
Yes. Amyraldists view Limited Atonement as Specific Atonement, so it's an attempt to minimize double predestination, etc.
See above. No, I'm not any real form of Calvi or Armi.
I simply reject the Original Sin doctrine in favor of scripture. I understand the constitution of man from scripture, so inheriting physical death from Adam was sufficient without adding all the mess that leads to the false dichotomy of Calvi-Armi.
Not for me. Monergism versus Synergism is largely a false dichotomy. Understanding God's constitution resolves much of what His "will" is, and how it functions. Trinity is error of incompleteness. Let the word cut through for the complete truth and displace this insufficient doctrine.
I'll just sum this all up as anyone can believe any conpatible somethings that they choose, I suppose.
No. Faith is not creedal.
The view of Sabellius (he didn't originate the teaching, he was just the most visible and influential proponent) is incomplete in the same way and area that Trinity is: Simplicity. The "modes" or "manifestations" are not distinct enough to illustrate HOW God is one, so the simultaneity of F-S-HS is difficult to account for, as you well know. Modes makes no individual distinction between F-S-HS; Persons makes them discrete. The trurh lies in between, with Trinity being further from the truth.
Pronouns are a language construct. Until you understand the non-Trinity truth, you won't understand how the Word wasn't pre-existent AS a separate distinct "person". Trinitarians ignore every singular pronoun rendering.
Yes. Amyraldists view Limited Atonement as Specific Atonement, so it's an attempt to minimize double predestination, etc.
See above. No, I'm not any real form of Calvi or Armi.
I simply reject the Original Sin doctrine in favor of scripture. I understand the constitution of man from scripture, so inheriting physical death from Adam was sufficient without adding all the mess that leads to the false dichotomy of Calvi-Armi.
Not for me. Monergism versus Synergism is largely a false dichotomy. Understanding God's constitution resolves much of what His "will" is, and how it functions. Trinity is error of incompleteness. Let the word cut through for the complete truth and displace this insufficient doctrine.
I'll just sum this all up as anyone can believe any conpatible somethings that they choose, I suppose.
No. Faith is not creedal.
your own creed. In Erie PA Scott Harrington
PS Of course, faith is more than a creed. It is also action, living action, trust in God.
God Who is a personal God. Trinitarians understand God is not one single person, like a man; He is three persons. God is not in the image of man, just one person; man is in the image of God. Thus man's tripartite nature: spirit, soul, body, an analogy, however imperfect, to the threeness of Father, Son, and Spirit. God bless you. God bless America.
Absolutely! And you can believe just as the Holy Spirit shows you the truth.
Here is a revelation for us. God does not appear to every person in the same way. He has the same attributes, but He reveals Himself to Abraham personally, and to Jacob personally, and to Moses personally, and to David personally, and to you and to me, personally.
Why?
Because He can.
In Christ,
Here is a revelation for us. God does not appear to every person in the same way. He has the same attributes, but He reveals Himself to Abraham personally, and to Jacob personally, and to Moses personally, and to David personally, and to you and to me, personally.
Why?
Because He can.
In Christ,
If you had read more of my posts you would know that I do not at all mean that. But we must know that as we are each unique, we also have a God big enough to be what He determines we need for our God to be. But always this is through the Son Jesus. God said of Moses that he was more humble than any man on earth, so that He spoke to him mouth to mouth. Think about that. That is what I am talking about.
I would like to add here that the real trouble with the trinity doctrine is that it holds Jesus and the Holy Sporit as co-equal with the Father. This just is not true. Yes, Jesus is God, as is the Holy Spirit, but they are both subservient to the Father.
In Christ,
I would like to add here that the real trouble with the trinity doctrine is that it holds Jesus and the Holy Sporit as co-equal with the Father. This just is not true. Yes, Jesus is God, as is the Holy Spirit, but they are both subservient to the Father.
In Christ,
Jesus is God. This is because He is divine. He has no beginning and no end, and all things which were created were created through Him and for Him and hold together in Him. God.
The Holy Spirit is God. He has a much harder to define function, but He is divine. No one who is born of God is born other than of the Holy Spirit. We actually owe our eternal existence to the Spirit as much as we do to Jesus and to the Father.
Then there is the Father. He is God. He is above all, including Jesus and the Holy Spirit.
But it should be understood that none of these three were created, that they have always been, and will always be. When it speaks of the beginning, we should understand that before there was a beginning, God the Father and God the Son and God the Holy Spirit were already there.
I don't think any of that qualifies as new age belief.
In Christ.
The Holy Spirit is God. He has a much harder to define function, but He is divine. No one who is born of God is born other than of the Holy Spirit. We actually owe our eternal existence to the Spirit as much as we do to Jesus and to the Father.
Then there is the Father. He is God. He is above all, including Jesus and the Holy Spirit.
But it should be understood that none of these three were created, that they have always been, and will always be. When it speaks of the beginning, we should understand that before there was a beginning, God the Father and God the Son and God the Holy Spirit were already there.
I don't think any of that qualifies as new age belief.
In Christ.
You gave a description rather than outlining an incorrect doctrine. That is preferable to proclaiming a formulated doctrine that isn't correct.
You didn't say God was three "persons".
So... who/what ARE the F-S-HS by your understanding?
You didn't say God was three "persons".
So... who/what ARE the F-S-HS by your understanding?
The Father is God, and He sits on the throne of heaven. Everything, every single thing is subject to Him, because He caused it all to exist, and in fact holds it all together by His power. There is nothing and no one who is even close to Him in power and knowledge and wisdom. By any measure, He is immeasurable.
Jesus is His express image in bodily form. And just for grins, the Father has given all authority to Jesus, for the express purpose that all might honor Jesus just as they will honor the Father. The Holy Spirit is separate from God, but it is not separate. As the Spirit of God, he goes where the Father wills, and is the manifestation of God in the spiritual plane. This is how God can live in us, how we can have the mind of Christ, how we can be the children of God.
But the Spirit is more than this. He is in some real way God's heart. He is extremely sensitive to God's will, and to our thoughts and feelings. And I am always reminded that one may speak against the Father, or against the Son, and it will be forgiven. But if one speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, in this life, or in the next life.
Jesus came into this world last time as a man. This time which is drawing near, He is coming as something more than a man, He is coming as King and Lord and God, to rule and reign on the throne of the world. And every knee will bow, and every tongue will confess Him Lord and God to the glory of the Father.
Anyway, that is the God I know.
In Christ,
The true tragecy of this IMO is that it is mainly a form of words(as PPS said) that is the fixation here, not the nature of who Christ is as such that causes such division.
Christ said the Father was doing his work though him and to believe the Father was in him on the EVIDENCE of the miracles
The miracles as Christ acknowledged were by the power of the HS. Therefore the Father is in the son via the Spirit.
As Paul stated the fulness of the Godhead bodily(by the HS) dwells in Christ
When Christ was on earth the Spirit descended on him in bodily form at his Baptism. BUT according to Christ that did not make him the one true God, only the Father could have that title.
So we can all agree that the fullness of the Father via the HS is in Christ and this is why Father and Son are as one, of one heart and one mind in the same Spirit as Christ prayed that we the believers would be.
But although God dwells in such fulness in his Son the Son is still the son, not the Father and the Father is the one true God
This is the mistake man made in his human intellectual wisdom at the Nicean Councils, he put his rational thinking before the plain words of the Bible
So when people say Christ was God Himself on earth, the Father was in the son in BODILY FORM in the Spirit so people reason Christ was God Himself on earth, but even then Christ made the distinction
There is only ONE TRUE GOD, the Father, not the son
But as the Spirit was on Christ in bodily form everything he did and was reflected who the Father truly is,
One point. If Christ was God Himself on earth from birth, why did the Spirit who the Father did his work through the son not descend on Christ in bodily form until his Baptism?
Christ said the Father was doing his work though him and to believe the Father was in him on the EVIDENCE of the miracles
The miracles as Christ acknowledged were by the power of the HS. Therefore the Father is in the son via the Spirit.
As Paul stated the fulness of the Godhead bodily(by the HS) dwells in Christ
When Christ was on earth the Spirit descended on him in bodily form at his Baptism. BUT according to Christ that did not make him the one true God, only the Father could have that title.
So we can all agree that the fullness of the Father via the HS is in Christ and this is why Father and Son are as one, of one heart and one mind in the same Spirit as Christ prayed that we the believers would be.
But although God dwells in such fulness in his Son the Son is still the son, not the Father and the Father is the one true God
This is the mistake man made in his human intellectual wisdom at the Nicean Councils, he put his rational thinking before the plain words of the Bible
So when people say Christ was God Himself on earth, the Father was in the son in BODILY FORM in the Spirit so people reason Christ was God Himself on earth, but even then Christ made the distinction
There is only ONE TRUE GOD, the Father, not the son
But as the Spirit was on Christ in bodily form everything he did and was reflected who the Father truly is,
One point. If Christ was God Himself on earth from birth, why did the Spirit who the Father did his work through the son not descend on Christ in bodily form until his Baptism?
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IMO because of man and his egotistical self.
He has to believe that by continuosly pouring threough scripture with the brilliance of his academic mind he can forever come up with new, hidden depths of truth concerning what is written
What he in his egotistical mind forgets is that the Spirit who teaches the believers the TRUTH is the same spirit who was in Christ and showed the Apostles truth in the NT.
The Spirit does not rely on the academic qualities of the human mind to discover 300 years after Christ died on the cross something on which Christianity supposedly hinges.
Man and his wisdom wil ALWAYS be the true stumbling block to understanding the things of God
He has to believe that by continuosly pouring threough scripture with the brilliance of his academic mind he can forever come up with new, hidden depths of truth concerning what is written
What he in his egotistical mind forgets is that the Spirit who teaches the believers the TRUTH is the same spirit who was in Christ and showed the Apostles truth in the NT.
The Spirit does not rely on the academic qualities of the human mind to discover 300 years after Christ died on the cross something on which Christianity supposedly hinges.
Man and his wisdom wil ALWAYS be the true stumbling block to understanding the things of God