True or False - "Another Jesus"?

[UnderGrace]

That's hilarious LOL. I didn't know that people wore them in public.

I guess you would know what I mean by paper patterns though...I am talking about those thin brown patterns used long ago. I remember my mom's attempts to make her own dresses. I heard the analogy concerning the Mosaic Law and thought it was great.

My sister who is older than me and of the "hippie" generation tells me they actually did and from a distance, being the bold vibrant colours it was not really discernible.

But on a different note if you noticed the link posted by the OP you will find this statement in the .pdf. You will notice the dispensational plan??

Very disturbing

Should we Evangelize the Jews? (Not referring to "Israel" –the Northern Ten Tribes. See the booklet CHRISTIAN FOUNDATIONAL TEACHINGS No 2 Your Identity, a must to read)We believe that it is notour responsibility to evangelize the Jews. YHWH has a dispensational plan with them which He confirmed in theTorah(First Five Books written by Moshe), the Neviim(Prophets), the Chetuviim(Writings) and Brit Chadasha(New Covenant)

YHWH blinded them according to the Word and He will open their eyes Himself at the appropriate time. We cannot go against YHWH’s plan and try to make His work undone. He has kept a remnant’s eyes open in every generation:

Link

 

[Whispered]

That's hilarious LOL. I didn't know that people wore them in public.

I guess you would know what I mean by paper patterns though...I am talking about those thin brown patterns used long ago. I remember my mom's attempts to make her own dresses. I heard the analogy concerning the Mosaic Law and thought it was great.

The Mosaic ceremonial law was nailed to the cross. This doesn't mean however that God's law was. Jesus reiterated that law. The Apostles followed it, even the Sabbath keeping.
I think we argue ourselves contrary to the scriptures and God's word and will if we dare think in terms of, 'that is only for the Jews'.
Especially in light of the Book of John chapter 3 and verse 16.

Replacement Theology is a tool of the enemy. Those under its banner are damned, not in Christ. It is a tragedy that dares quote the Father's words in order to sustain that loss.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

This is an addition to my previous post.

Thirteen, "lawkeepers" are often claiming others have "another Jesus".

2 Corinthians 11:4 4 For if someone comes and proclaims another Jesus than the one we proclaimed, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or if you accept a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it readily enough.
(ESV Strong's)

Sometimes they associate this with another proof-text in the book of Galatians:

Galatians 1:6-9 6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7 not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed.
(ESV)

So, in their worldview, they believe everyone else has been taught a "false gospel" and they have the "true gospel". The problem with their assertion is that the Galatians were dealing with individuals who claimed that the Mosaic Law needed to be observed, besides having faith in Jesus. In fact, days and circumcision specifically are mentioned.

Circumcision was more than just circumcision. To be circumcised means that you are placing yourself under the Mosaic Law, with all of its regulations. If you want to confirm this, read the whole book of Galatians.

So, what is my point? While claiming that others have "another Jesus", in reality the "lawkeeper" has another Jesus. He is saying, the Jesus you have is not the same as my Jesus. And I will agree with him. I don't have that Jesus anymore. I have been united with Jesus, and he transforms me through the transforming power of the Holy Spirit. I pursue holiness by being joined with Him, and experiencing the transforming power of this union. I am not married to the Law but I am married to Jesus. I really suggest reading Romans 7:1-6 in this regard. Those who are joined to the Law are spiritual adulterers.

 

[UnderGrace]

The Mosaic ceremonial law was nailed to the cross. This doesn't mean however that God's law was. Jesus reiterated that law. The Apostles followed it, even the Sabbath keeping.
I think we argue ourselves contrary to the scriptures and God's word and will if we dare think in terms of, 'that is only for the Jews'.
Especially in light of the Book of John chapter 3 and verse 16.

Replacement Theology is a tool of the enemy. Those under its banner are damned, not in Christ. It is a tragedy that dares quote the Father's words in order to sustain that loss.

And what exactly is replacement theology if in fact it even exists?

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

My sister who is older than me and of the "hippie" generation tells me they actually did and from a distance, being the bold vibrant colours it was not really discernible.

But on a different note if you noticed the link posted by the OP you will find this statement in the .pdf. You will notice the dispensational plan??

Very disturbing







Link

My position would be we should evangelize everyone, and God opens their eyes as he wills, but this includes both Jews and Gentiles. I also think there will be a great influx of Jewish believers toward the end. I would need to study their views more to express an opinion on them, though. I'm not sure I want to invest the time

 

[UnderGrace]

I think that if He’s Lord and He is, and the Lord of our life? He’s law. I understand what was said. I’ve asked Holy Spirit to keep me from sinning when tempted to act a certain way, or speak something not pleasing to Him. And I’m finding Him faithful. It’s our protection.

That is grace.

 

[UnderGrace]

My position would be we should evangelize everyone, and God opens their eyes as he wills, but this includes both Jews and Gentiles. I also think there will be a great influx of Jewish believers toward the end. I would need to study their views more to express an opinion on them, though. I'm not sure I want to invest the time

Well it my be worth some investment since this seems to be the new threat to the simple Gospel found in Christ Jesus .. and you seem to be someone who is into the details.

 

[stonesoffire]

Jesus said very plainly He didnt come to abolish the law which you would think would be end of discussion but the grace people will always ignore these things.

The grace people are correct in theology. Grace is unmerited favor. But some stop there and only accept that definition, not realizing that the power of grace is Holy Spirit. And His power is to make a Holy people.

 

[stonesoffire]

That is grace.

Yes, it is.

 

[stonesoffire]

Doesn’t the two sticks become one in end times?

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

The Mosaic ceremonial law was nailed to the cross. This doesn't mean however that God's law was. Jesus reiterated that law. The Apostles followed it, even the Sabbath keeping.
I think we argue ourselves contrary to the scriptures and God's word and will if we dare think in terms of, 'that is only for the Jews'.
Especially in light of the Book of John chapter 3 and verse 16.

Replacement Theology is a tool of the enemy. Those under its banner are damned, not in Christ. It is a tragedy that dares quote the Father's words in order to sustain that loss.

The Sabbath, festivals, and meat laws were part of the Mosaic Law. If you want to claim that they are not, then you have a lot of Scripture to explain. You know the verses if you belong to a "lawkeeper" group.

By the way, I place "lawkeeper" in quotes because in reality those individuals are lawbreakers. They can't keep the law because it isn't possible without the Temple and the Levitical priesthood.

Regarding "replacement theology", I only believe in one people of God, both Jew and Gentile. I believe in "fulfillment theology" and don't acknowledge the term "replacement theology". I am not a follower of Darby, Scofield, Ryrie, etcetera.

Read Ephesians 2:13-15. There is only one people of God, united in Christ, Jew and Gentile. And all of them inherit Abraham's promises as the spiritual descendants of Abraham. Read Romans 4 as well.

You can pronounce an anathema upon me, but that is meaningless since you aren't God

 

[Whispered]

And what exactly is replacement theology if in fact it even exists?

If this resource is not satisfying the search criterion, what is replacement theology, will provide ample resources to choose from for the information sought.

Source The Book of Amos chapter 3 verse 7
https://amos37.com/replacement-denominations/

Replacement theology (also known as supersessionism) essentially teaches that the church has replaced Israel in God’s plan. Adherents of replacement theology believe the Jews are no longer God’s chosen people, and God does not have specific future plans for the nation of Israel. All the different views of the relationship between the church and Israel can be divided into two camps: either the church is a continuation of Israel (replacement/covenant theology), or the church is completely different and distinct from Israel (dispensationalism/premillennialism).

Replacement theology teaches that the church is the replacement for Israel and that the many promises made to Israel in the Bible are fulfilled in the Christian church, not in Israel. So, the prophecies in Scripture concerning the blessing and restoration of Israel to the Promised Land are “spiritualized” or “allegorized” into promises of God’s blessing for the church. Major problems exist with this view, such as the continuing existence of the Jewish people throughout the centuries and especially with the revival of the modern state of Israel. If Israel has been condemned by God, and there is no future for the Jewish nation, how do we explain the supernatural survival of the Jewish people over the past 2000 years despite the many attempts to destroy them? How do we explain why and how Israel reappeared as a nation in the 20th century after not existing for 1900 years?
The Church (The Replacements in bold)
U.S. Membership Denominational Ranking: Largest 25 Denominations/Communions –2004 Yearbook of American and Canadian Churches
The Roman Catholic Church – 66,407,105
Seventh Day Adventist – 19,126,438 As of 2015
Southern Baptist Convention – 16, 427, 736
The United Methodist Church – 8,251,042
The Church of God in Christ – 5,499,875
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints – 5,410,544
Evangelical Lutheran Church in America – 5,038,006
National Baptist Convention, U.S.A., Inc. – 5,000,000
National Baptist Convention of America, Inc. – 3,500,000
Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) – 3,407,329
Assemblies of God – 2,687,366
The Lutheran Church – Missouri Synod – 2,512,714
African Methodist Episcopal Church – 2,500,000
National Missionary Baptist Convention of America – 2,500,000
Progressive National Baptist Convention Inc. – 2,500,000
The Episcopal Church – 2,333,628
Churches of Christ, Corsicana, Texas – 1,500,000
Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America – 1,500,000
Pentecostal Assemblies of the World, Inc. – 1,500,000
American Baptist Churches in the U.S.A. – 1,484,291
African Methodist Episcopal Zion Church – 1,430,795
United Church of Christ – 1,330,985
Baptist Bible Fellowship International – 1,200,000
Christian Churches and Churches of Christ, Joplin, Mo. – 1,071,616
Jehovah’s Witnesses – 1,022,397
Church of God, Cleveland, Tenn., – 944,857

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

The Mosaic ceremonial law was nailed to the cross. This doesn't mean however that God's law was. Jesus reiterated that law. The Apostles followed it, even the Sabbath keeping.
I think we argue ourselves contrary to the scriptures and God's word and will if we dare think in terms of, 'that is only for the Jews'.
Especially in light of the Book of John chapter 3 and verse 16.

Replacement Theology is a tool of the enemy. Those under its banner are damned, not in Christ. It is a tragedy that dares quote the Father's words in order to sustain that loss.

By the way, I didn't address the claim that the Apostles kept the festivals, etcetera. I totally agree that they did. They were Jews, and observed them out of preference.

Paul taught in the synagogues on Sabbath, too. That's where there were people to evangelize. Some were Jew and some were Gentile "God-fearers".

And, there is nothing wrong with that. The problem is when one proclaims that all must observe dietary and calendar observances. This is a false teaching.

Paul actually observed purification rites in the Temple in Acts 21. That doesn't mean they are required for believers, either. In fact they would have a hard time doing that with no Temple and no Levitical priesthood.

There is no place in the NT where a Gentile is commanded to observe the Sabbath, festivals, and clean meat laws.

 

[Whispered]

The Sabbath, festivals, and meat laws were part of the Mosaic Law. If you want to claim that they are not, then you have a lot of Scripture to explain. You know the verses if you belong to a "lawkeeper" group.

By the way, I place "lawkeeper" in quotes because in reality those individuals are lawbreakers. They can't keep the law because it isn't possible without the Temple and the Levitical priesthood.

Regarding "replacement theology", I only believe in one people of God, both Jew and Gentile. I believe in "fulfillment theology" and don't acknowledge the term "replacement theology". I am not a follower of Darby, Scofield, Ryrie, etcetera.

Read Ephesians 2:13-15. There is only one people of God, united in Christ, Jew and Gentile. And all of them inherit Abraham's promises as the spiritual descendants of Abraham. Read Romans 4 as well.

You can pronounce an anathema upon me, but that is meaningless since you aren't God

You presume much so I will keep this short.
The Sabbath pre-existed Moses. Jesus kept the Sabbath in the way it was decreed by the Father, not under the strictures of the laws of Moses. The Apostles, if one reads the New Testament, also kept the Sabbath after our Lord departed to Heaven.

It matters little if someone does not acknowledge Replacement Theology. The fact is Replacement Theology doctrine does exist and there are denominations that follow its tenets.

 

[Grace911]

lost tribes werent lost they were written to by st. james:

James 1:1
James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ,
To the twelve tribes scattered among the nations:
Greetings.

Yes there was a remnant of some of the ten tribes, and yes James' letter was preserved and placed into the New Testament for the lost sheep of the House of Israel to read 2000 years later.

 

[UnderGrace]

You can pronounce an anathema upon me, but that is meaningless since you aren't God

Meaningless indeed

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

If this resource is not satisfying the search criterion, what is replacement theology, will provide ample resources to choose from for the information sought.

Source The Book of Amos chapter 3 verse 7
https://amos37.com/replacement-denominations/

Replacement theology (also known as supersessionism) essentially teaches that the church has replaced Israel in God’s plan. Adherents of replacement theology believe the Jews are no longer God’s chosen people, and God does not have specific future plans for the nation of Israel. All the different views of the relationship between the church and Israel can be divided into two camps: either the church is a continuation of Israel (replacement/covenant theology), or the church is completely different and distinct from Israel (dispensationalism/premillennialism).

Replacement theology teaches that the church is the replacement for Israel and that the many promises made to Israel in the Bible are fulfilled in the Christian church, not in Israel. So, the prophecies in Scripture concerning the blessing and restoration of Israel to the Promised Land are “spiritualized” or “allegorized” into promises of God’s blessing for the church. Major problems exist with this view, such as the continuing existence of the Jewish people throughout the centuries and especially with the revival of the modern state of Israel. If Israel has been condemned by God, and there is no future for the Jewish nation, how do we explain the supernatural survival of the Jewish people over the past 2000 years despite the many attempts to destroy them? How do we explain why and how Israel reappeared as a nation in the 20th century after not existing for 1900 years?
The Church (The Replacements in bold)
U.S. Membership Denominational Ranking: Largest 25 Denominations/Communions –2004 Yearbook of American and Canadian Churches
The Roman Catholic Church – 66,407,105
Seventh Day Adventist – 19,126,438 As of 2015
Southern Baptist Convention – 16, 427, 736
The United Methodist Church – 8,251,042
The Church of God in Christ – 5,499,875
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints – 5,410,544
Evangelical Lutheran Church in America – 5,038,006
National Baptist Convention, U.S.A., Inc. – 5,000,000
National Baptist Convention of America, Inc. – 3,500,000
Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) – 3,407,329
Assemblies of God – 2,687,366
The Lutheran Church – Missouri Synod – 2,512,714
African Methodist Episcopal Church – 2,500,000
National Missionary Baptist Convention of America – 2,500,000
Progressive National Baptist Convention Inc. – 2,500,000
The Episcopal Church – 2,333,628
Churches of Christ, Corsicana, Texas – 1,500,000
Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America – 1,500,000
Pentecostal Assemblies of the World, Inc. – 1,500,000
American Baptist Churches in the U.S.A. – 1,484,291
African Methodist Episcopal Zion Church – 1,430,795
United Church of Christ – 1,330,985
Baptist Bible Fellowship International – 1,200,000
Christian Churches and Churches of Christ, Joplin, Mo. – 1,071,616
Jehovah’s Witnesses – 1,022,397
Church of God, Cleveland, Tenn., – 944,857

As I mentioned, dispensational theology denies that there is one people of God, united in Christ. This is a fundamental teaching of Scripture. Unfortunately, it is the dominant belief system of conservative evangelicals, and this is largely because it accompanies Pentecostalism.

This topic will actually aggravate a lot of people because they are dispensationalists.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

You presume much so I will keep this short.
The Sabbath pre-existed Moses. Jesus kept the Sabbath in the way it was decreed by the Father, not under the strictures of the laws of Moses. The Apostles, if one reads the New Testament, also kept the Sabbath after our Lord departed to Heaven.

It matters little if someone does not acknowledge Replacement Theology. The fact is Replacement Theology doctrine does exist and there are denominations that follow its tenets.

There is no mention of the word "Sabbath" prior to the Exodus.

God ceased his creative activity on the seventh day, but there is no evidence that it was in effect.

By the way, I am a former Sabbathkeeper and have studied this topic thoroughly. I challenge you to find one reference to the Sabbath prior to the Exodus.

 

[Whispered]

There is no mention of the word "Sabbath" prior to the Exodus.

God ceased his creative activity on the seventh day, but there is no evidence that it was in effect.

By the way, I am a former Sabbathkeeper and have studied this topic thoroughly. I challenge you to find one reference to the Sabbath prior to the Exodus.

I would not presume to challenge one who is so blind.

 

[stonesoffire]

1Ti 1:3 When I was on my way to Macedonia, I urged you to stay in Ephesus so that you could instruct certain people to stop teaching false doctrine

1Ti 1:4 and occupying themselves with myths and endless genealogies. These things promote controversies rather than God's ongoing purpose, which involves faith.

1Ti 1:5 The goal of this instruction is love that flows from a pure heart, from a clear conscience, and from a sincere faith.

1Ti 1:6 Some people have left these qualities behind and have turned to fruitless discussion.


So the law is good in this way.