True or False - "Another Jesus"?

[Grace911]

Observing Sabbaths, Feast Days, and Dietary instructions are unchangeable....no matter what part of planet earth you live on. They are NOT FOR SALVATION, for only Jesus could shed holy and human blood and sacrificed Himself for all the world/nations/people/gentiles/heathen/pagans/and Jews. Pay close attention the end of days prophetic words and who does Satan hate more than the Jews without Christ? He hates those who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus. The Jews without Christ don't qualify. The Christians without commandments/instructions don't qualify. The Muslims don't have God's commandments or the faith in Jesus Christ. No! Satan is not going after those who hate "law keeping". It's those that are Messianic Believers who hold fast/guard/watch over/preserve all the scriptures, that is who Satan wants to destroy. If it wasn't for the Jews maintaining and protecting the "OT" we would not know the LORD. God promises in the last days the Jews will recognize the Saviour Jesus Christ. For their is salvation in no other.

Exo_31:13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.
Eze_20:12 Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them.
Eze_20:20 And hallow my sabbaths; and they shall be a sign between me and you, that ye may know that I am the LORD your God.

Joh_10:30 I and my Father are one.

Eph_2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants (plural) of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

1Jn_2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Rom_3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Rev_12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep (G5083-tereo-- to guard, prevent from escaping, hold fast, keep (-er), (ob-, pre-, re) serve, watch.) the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Rev_14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

And here are all the NT verses with this same "Keep the commandments/words - G5083":

Mat_19:17; Mat_23:3; Mat_27:36; Mat_27:54; Mat_28:4; Mat_28:20; Mar_7:9; Joh_2:10; Joh_8:51; Joh_8:52; Joh_8:55; Joh_9:16; Joh_12:7; Joh_14:15; Joh_14:21; Joh_14:23; Joh_14:24; Joh_15:10; Joh_15:20; Joh_17:6; Joh_17:11; Joh_17:12; Joh_17:15; Act_12:5; Act_12:6; Act_15:5; Act_15:24; Act_16:23; Act_21:25; Act_24:23; Act_25:4; Act_25:21; 1Co_7:37; 2Co_11:9; Eph_4:3; 1Th_5:23; 1Ti_5:22; 1Ti_6:14; 2Ti_4:7; Jas_1:27; Jas_2:10; 1Pe_1:4; 2Pe_2:4; 2Pe_2:9; 2Pe_2:17; 2Pe_3:7; 1Jn_2:3; 1Jn_2:4; 1Jn_2:5; 1Jn_3:22; 1Jn_3:24; 1Jn_5:2; 1Jn_5:3; 1Jn_5:18; Jud_1:1; Jud_1:6; Jud_1:13; Jud_1:21; Rev_1:3; Rev_2:26; Rev_3:3; Rev_3:8; Rev_3:10; Rev_12:17; Rev_14:12; Rev_16:15; Rev_22:7; Rev_22:9.

 

[Whispered]

The issue isn't obedience. The issue is which commandments.

Your view is:

commandments = Ten Commandments

Col 2:16-17 says that the Sabbath, festivals, New Moons are part of the "shadows" that belong to the old economy. See the similar language of Heb 10:1-4.

Therefore the Sabbath is not applicable.

However, there is a bigger issue in that somehow you think "commandments" are localized to the Ten Commandments, when the phrase applies to all of the commandments of Scripture that are applicable to a given individual. The Sabbath was only given to ancient Israel.

And, I mentioned Col 2:16-17 that groups the Sabbath with ceremonial aspects of the Law.

God's commandments are not just the Ten Commandments, nor is the Sabbath applicable anymore. Neither are festivals or clean meat laws. Neither is physical circumcision or purification rites, even though Paul observed them and did not forbid their observance amongst the Jews (Acts 21).

And, no amount of works can ever justify the believer. Justification is by faith alone, and occurs before the person has been joined to Christ. Therefore, he's unable to do good works pleasing to God at that point anyways.

I have never said works save or justify so that part of your report does not apply to me.

The Sabbath has not been done away with, that is false and ever shall be. Jesus exampled the Sabbath and contrary to the Pharisee's angst having witnessed it, did work, healed, on Sabbath day because Jesus was Lord who created the Sabbath in the beginning.

27 "And He said to them, "The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath." The Book of Mark chapter 2

"Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled." The Book of Matthew chapter 5 verses 17 through 18

The Apostle Saint Paul Book of Romans chapter 7 verse 12 "Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good."
A once Pharisee's observations is for naught? Do we rewrite the Bible to occasion our own will for ourselves and yet call ourselves in Christ who was God Almighty? Who reiterated the laws of the ten commands and then sought they be ignored after He left the Earth?
There is not one scripture that says that which was made for man is by God's new ordinance no longer applicable; Sabbath.
We are all one in Christ. There is no separation. No Jew, no Greek, no Gentile, no male, no female. The Book of Galatians chapter 3 verse 28.
Why then do you attempt to segregate The Words intentions by speaking against that fact as told to us by Saint Paul, who was the most learned of all Christ's Apostles. Especially in matters of God's law.

As for unclean meats, God knew what he was talking about. We in America have an FDA, Food and Drug Administration, designated by our government to oversee and monitor what can be called the marketing of clean foods. Long before FDA there was GOD.
You'll find that what is designated unclean by God is actually foul for human consumption. It is not a Jewish thing. It is a God thing.

These things are not ways to work to be saved as we know. These things are guidance and wisdom until all is fulfilled, which has not yet been accomplished in Messiah prophecy. We know there is only one way to be saved. Not eating pork is not one of those ways. Christ is the only way.

"Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ." The Book of Colossians chapter 2 verse 8

 

[Whispered]

Observing Sabbaths, Feast Days, and Dietary instructions are unchangeable....no matter what part of planet earth you live on. They are NOT FOR SALVATION, for only Jesus could shed holy and human blood and sacrificed Himself for all the world/nations/people/gentiles/heathen/pagans/and Jews. Pay close attention the end of days prophetic words and who does Satan hate more than the Jews without Christ? He hates those who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus. The Jews without Christ don't qualify. The Christians without commandments/instructions don't qualify. The Muslims don't have God's commandments or the faith in Jesus Christ. No! Satan is not going after those who hate "law keeping". It's those that are Messianic Believers who hold fast/guard/watch over/preserve all the scriptures, that is who Satan wants to destroy. If it wasn't for the Jews maintaining and protecting the "OT" we would not know the LORD. God promises in the last days the Jews will recognize the Saviour Jesus Christ. For their is salvation in no other.

Exo_31:13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.
Eze_20:12 Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them.
Eze_20:20 And hallow my sabbaths; and they shall be a sign between me and you, that ye may know that I am the LORD your God.

Joh_10:30 I and my Father are one.

Eph_2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants (plural) of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

1Jn_2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Rom_3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Rev_12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep (G5083-tereo-- to guard, prevent from escaping, hold fast, keep (-er), (ob-, pre-, re) serve, watch.) the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Rev_14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

And here are all the NT verses with this same "Keep the commandments/words - G5083":

Mat_19:17; Mat_23:3; Mat_27:36; Mat_27:54; Mat_28:4; Mat_28:20; Mar_7:9; Joh_2:10; Joh_8:51; Joh_8:52; Joh_8:55; Joh_9:16; Joh_12:7; Joh_14:15; Joh_14:21; Joh_14:23; Joh_14:24; Joh_15:10; Joh_15:20; Joh_17:6; Joh_17:11; Joh_17:12; Joh_17:15; Act_12:5; Act_12:6; Act_15:5; Act_15:24; Act_16:23; Act_21:25; Act_24:23; Act_25:4; Act_25:21; 1Co_7:37; 2Co_11:9; Eph_4:3; 1Th_5:23; 1Ti_5:22; 1Ti_6:14; 2Ti_4:7; Jas_1:27; Jas_2:10; 1Pe_1:4; 2Pe_2:4; 2Pe_2:9; 2Pe_2:17; 2Pe_3:7; 1Jn_2:3; 1Jn_2:4; 1Jn_2:5; 1Jn_3:22; 1Jn_3:24; 1Jn_5:2; 1Jn_5:3; 1Jn_5:18; Jud_1:1; Jud_1:6; Jud_1:13; Jud_1:21; Rev_1:3; Rev_2:26; Rev_3:3; Rev_3:8; Rev_3:10; Rev_12:17; Rev_14:12; Rev_16:15; Rev_22:7; Rev_22:9.

Amen!
The Replacement Theology doctrine not only fails to teach but fails to recall in itself that promise of reconciling Israel to Himself. As the Saint Apostle Paul wrote in his Book of Romans chapter 11. What I think is also ignored, overlooked, or perhaps is unknown to RTD believers is that part in chapter 11 concerning 'grafted in'. Grafted, not replaced.

 

[Whispered]

Just to add. "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled." The Book of Matthew chapter 5 verses 17 through 18
Heaven and Earth have not passed away as yet.
Though at times the politics of the worlds power leaders make it appear that is possible in matters of Earth itself. However, be not afraid, for God is in control there too. Amen!

 

[jaybird88]

The grace people are correct in theology. Grace is unmerited favor. But some stop there and only accept that definition, not realizing that the power of grace is Holy Spirit. And His power is to make a Holy people.

the theology works as long as you can omit parts of the bible such as Jesus saying He did not come to abolish the law.

 

[Melach]

the theology works as long as you can omit parts of the bible such as Jesus saying He did not come to abolish the law.

but to fulfill.

my problem is: with all those who talk about the sabbath like the SDA and many other groups. talk about we should keep the law.

but they never keep it, they didnt get circumcised, they didnt sacrifice animals, they didnt stone people.

if you mean we should keep the commandments of Jesus in the n.t. and thats what you mean by "Jesus didnt abolish the law" then i agree with you.

which one is it friend?

 

[Whispered]

I probably do more Bible study than you, by the way.

I don't hate the Mosaic Law. It serves a purpose. It should convince the person who looks into it that they are sinners in need of Jesus' righteousness, if they understand it correctly. It is only a vague representation of God's glory, though. Elements of it were meant to accomodate man's fallen nature, such as the divorce laws of Deuteronomy 24.

I don't worship the Law. I worship Jesus. Which word is on your lips the most, the Law or Jesus? If it is the first, then you're a spiritual adulteress. Read Rom 7:1-6.

I would suggest you study more. Your pride and indignation are glaringly apparent in those words that escape your mind and heart and appear here among us all. Judge not lest ye be judged but when ye judge do not judge by appearance but use righteous judgement.
You offend in the former and lack the latter. You are not in that display one who appears united with our Lord.

You are offended at those who speak here as Jesus taught. The law has not passed away as long as heaven and earth exist. What you do not realize and by your spirit we know this is, the law is love.
Your words toward Grace911 and all of us does not reflect love as Christ meant it to be perfected. Save for love of yourself in your braggadocio. That is love of self and that is a sin that leads to no good place. The Book of Romans chapter 2. And the Book of James chapter 3.

If it be God's will may he open your eyes in time.

 

[stonesoffire]

True. Then the contention arises in recalling the words of Jesus when he said, be ye perfect as I am perfect. Jesus reiterated the ten commands in his ministry so that they are not at all done away with.
However, one could ask, is it impossible to be perfect in obeying the ten commandments? Really?
If we recall them and then ask ourselves, is it hard to not follow those moral edicts?
"For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome." The Book of 1st John chapter 5 and verse 3

1. You shall have no other gods before Me.
2. You shall not make idols.
3. You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
4. Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
5. Honor your father and your mother.
6. You shall not murder.
7. You shall not commit adultery.
8. You shall not steal.
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
10. You shall not covet.

The word is keep the commandments not do. There’s the difference, keep His Word in your, our, heart and it rises in time of need.

 

[Whispered]

Doesn’t the two sticks become one in end times?

Yes. Thank you for bringing the prophecy of the two sticks into this discussion.
"Join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one ... They shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all"

 

[Whispered]

The word is keep the commandments not do. There’s the difference, keep His Word in your, our, heart and it rises in time of need.

That is why they are written in our heart and mind so that we will not be separated from them. That they are there insures we do recall them in time of need. We live them .

 

[stonesoffire]

That is why they are written in our heart and mind so that we will not be separated from them. That they are there insures we do recall them in time of need. We live them without thinking.

Someone mentioned in another thread here that it’s the Spirit that is written in our heart. That’s all I can say about it because I agree it’s Holy Spirit that we are baptized into, and He has all the attributes of God for Hebis the Spirit of God.

But, I know from experience that the Word I needed as I grew in the Lord came up out of me to my mind when I needed. And even a part of a scripture that I would have to search out. And even a scripture that I had no remembrance of.

So they the Spirit and the Word work together.

 

[stonesoffire]

Yes. Thank you for bringing the prophecy of the two sticks into this discussion.
"Join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one ... They shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all"

I can see the value of division for a space of time but now is the time of joining. And put our focus solely on Jesus. Word/ Spirit.

 

[UnderGrace]

I would suggest you study more. Your pride and indignation are glaringly apparent in those words that escape your mind and heart and appear here among us all. Judge not lest ye be judged but when ye judge do not judge by appearance but use righteous judgement.
You offend in the former and lack the latter. You are not in that display one who appears united with our Lord.

You are offended at those who speak here as Jesus taught. The law has not passed away as long as heaven and earth exist. What you do not realize and by your spirit we know this is, the law is love.
Your words toward Grace911 and all of us does not reflect love as Christ meant it to be perfected. Save for love of yourself in your braggadocio. That is love of self and that is a sin that leads to no good place. The Book of Romans chapter 2. And the Book of James chapter 3.

If it be God's will may he open your eyes in time.

I just wonder when heaven is not going to exist... that is pass away?

 

[Melach]

I just wonder when heaven is not going to exist... that is pass away?

soon. its not talking about the third heaven. this heaven we see. the sky.

heaven will pass away:

2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

 

[jaybird88]

but to fulfill.

my problem is: with all those who talk about the sabbath like the SDA and many other groups. talk about we should keep the law.

but they never keep it, they didnt get circumcised, they didnt sacrifice animals, they didnt stone people.

if you mean we should keep the commandments of Jesus in the n.t. and thats what you mean by "Jesus didnt abolish the law" then i agree with you.

which one is it friend?

what does fulfill mean? if you think it means abolish then you have Jesus stating i did not come to abolish but to abolish. now does that make any sense, of course it doesnt.
i dont think Jesus came to abolish and change anything, that would be a new religion and you dont have Jesus saying anything like that anywhere. there is nothing wrong with Judaism, Jesus was against the temple leaders who were not teaching real Judaism. Jesus was just trying to bring people back to the proper way.

 

[UnderGrace]

soon. its not talking about the third heaven. this heaven we see. the sky.

heaven will pass away:

2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Do pre-tribbers use this verse to support their view?

 

[Melach]

Do pre-tribbers use this verse to support their view?

im not pre-trib so i dont know.

but the verse is clear, heavens shall pass away.

this happens when the new earth and heaven is brought about.

 

[Melach]

what does fulfill mean? if you think it means abolish then you have Jesus stating i did not come to abolish but to abolish. now does that make any sense, of course it doesnt.
i dont think Jesus came to abolish and change anything, that would be a new religion and you dont have Jesus saying anything like that anywhere. there is nothing wrong with Judaism, Jesus was against the temple leaders who were not teaching real Judaism. Jesus was just trying to bring people back to the proper way.

then answer my questions. why dont christians circumcise people like o.t. teaches? why dont you sacrifice animals like o.t teaches and even Jesus says to do to some people in His earthly ministry?

all hebrew roots people are hypocrites and its sickening to me. they are not saved.

 

[posthuman]

Dietary instructions are unchangeable....

rise, Peter, kill and eat​

 

[posthuman]

i dont think Jesus came to abolish and change anything, that would be a new religion and you dont have Jesus saying anything like that anywhere.

if the priesthood be changed,
then of necessity must there be a change of the law. ​

(Hebrews 7:12) ​

​

In that He saith a new, He hath abrogated the old:
now that which is disannulled and waxed old, is ready to vanish away. ​

(Hebrews 8:13)​

who is your high priest, Jaybird?
Jesus Christ, a Levite, or none at all?