True or False - "Another Jesus"?

[UnitedWithChrist]

I would not presume to challenge one who is so blind.

In other words, you can't disprove my position.

The closest you could do is refer to Jesus' statement that the Sabbath was made for man. My response would be that Israelites were men, and this does not mean that man is to be applied in a generic sense.

At any rate, I would respond that Israel had to be taught about the Sabbath, so it wasn't in existence prior to that.

Gen 26:5 has also been used, but all that says is that Abraham obeyed the commands that were applicable to him.

In practice, though, I observe the eighth day because it points to Jesus' resurrection and the believers' new creation in him. The number "8" is associated with a new creation (the first day of the week). Jesus' resurrection was the beginning of the new creation

 

[Whispered]

1Ti 1:3 When I was on my way to Macedonia, I urged you to stay in Ephesus so that you could instruct certain people to stop teaching false doctrine

1Ti 1:4 and occupying themselves with myths and endless genealogies. These things promote controversies rather than God's ongoing purpose, which involves faith.

1Ti 1:5 The goal of this instruction is love that flows from a pure heart, from a clear conscience, and from a sincere faith.

1Ti 1:6 Some people have left these qualities behind and have turned to fruitless discussion.


So the law is good in this way.

The law of God is love. The ten commandments are grounded in love. Love of God, love of one another.
Why would anyone who is in Christ argue love no longer applies for those who are in Christ. When Christ is love.
Is it a mystery?

 

[stonesoffire]

All these ‘ists and ‘isms keep us divided.

Paul taught one body of Jesus the Christ, and we all members. If we drop the divisions and adhere to truth, perhaps we would be a great influence in the world.

 

[stonesoffire]

The law of God is love. The ten commandments are grounded in love. Love of God, love of one another.
Why would anyone who is in Christ argue love no longer applies for those who are in Christ. When Christ is love.
Is it a mystery?

It’s not that the commandments are outdated but it’s the demand of the law for perfect obedience. It’s impossible so we need a sacrifice of innocence to cover our imperfection,.

That’s done in Jesus. We are covered forever in His righteousness. So we read the law and see Jesus. There comes the love in fellowship. Knowing we all are imperfect but in Him we are loved.

 

[Grace911]

The Sabbath, festivals, and meat laws were part of the Mosaic Law. If you want to claim that they are not, then you have a lot of Scripture to explain. You know the verses if you belong to a "lawkeeper" group.

By the way, I place "lawkeeper" in quotes because in reality those individuals are lawbreakers. They can't keep the law because it isn't possible without the Temple and the Levitical priesthood.

In regards to "lawkeeper" group being "lawbreakers". I guess that is why you despise the Word/the scriptures, because you believe you must be able to have a Temple in order to keep the law. I say no, you must have a love for God and Christ and a love for your fellow beings, and we are now the Temple and be willing to walk in the light you are given, or else you will take the path that is very wide and broad and we all know where that leads, right?

Psa 119:34 Give me understanding, and I shall keep thy law; yea, I shall observe it with my whole heart.

 

[Noose]

The law was not abolished, we are required to uphold it perfectly. But some will misunderstand me.

Rom 3:31Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Certainly not! Instead, we uphold the law.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

Concerning good resources regarding the problems with dispensationalism:

https://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=126101523139
https://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=126101519187
https://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=126101510492
https://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=126101458424

These audios would be excellent..basically they describe the history of dispensationalism from the perspective of an ex-dispensationalist.

If you live in the USA, and are a fundamentalist Christian, chances are you believe dispensationalism by default, even though you don't understand it, especially if you are a Pentecostal.

 

[mailmandan]

The law was not abolished, we are required to uphold it perfectly. But some will misunderstand me.

Rom 3:31Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Certainly not! Instead, we uphold the law.

Are you implying that believers are under the law and not under grace? How do you interpret “uphold the law” in Romans 3:31?

 

[stonesoffire]

Heb 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Look away from divided members. See Him! Saviour of all the world. Then see all around you who love Him too.

 

[stonesoffire]

You all want to fight and argue over doctrine. To prove what? Intelligence?

As a child, believe. Focus on Jesus and then post what you see.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

In regards to "lawkeeper" group being "lawbreakers". I guess that is why you despise the Word/the scriptures, because you believe you must be able to have a Temple in order to keep the law. I say no, you must have a love for God and Christ and a love for your fellow beings, and we are now the Temple and be willing to walk in the light you are given, or else you will take the path that is very wide and broad and we all know where that leads, right?

Psa 119:34 Give me understanding, and I shall keep thy law; yea, I shall observe it with my whole heart.

The word "law" in this Scripture, and many others, pertains to God's instructions.

The instructions that I follow are those given by Jesus under the New Covenant. I do not follow the Mosaic Law because it is no longer in effect.

Read Acts 15, 2 Cor 3, Gal 3-4, Rom 7:1-6, Eph 2:13-15, Heb 7-8, and Gal 3-4.

Yes, you do need a physical temple and a levitical priesthood to keep the Mosaic Law.

I call them "lawbreakers" because they can't observe the Mosaic Law without those elements.

However, then can observe Christ's Law, which is to love God and fellow humans, and to serve them.

Additionally, I wouldn't hang out with individuals from those belief systems anyways. They generally have a very poor understanding of the Scriptures. Their main activity is looking to accuse and condemn Christians for non-observance.

 

[stonesoffire]

The law was not abolished, we are required to uphold it perfectly. But some will misunderstand me.

Rom 3:31Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Certainly not! Instead, we uphold the law.

You put an awful burden on yourself noose, plus on others around you. A burden that Jesus took away. We are only perfect when we are one with Him, and then with each other.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

The word "law" in this Scripture, and many others, pertains to God's instructions.

The instructions that I follow are those given by Jesus under the New Covenant. I do not follow the Mosaic Law because it is no longer in effect.

Read Acts 15, 2 Cor 3, Gal 3-4, Rom 7:1-6, Eph 2:13-15, Heb 7-8, and Gal 3-4.

Yes, you do need a physical temple and a levitical priesthood to keep the Mosaic Law.

I call them "lawbreakers" because they can't observe the Mosaic Law without those elements.

However, they can observe Christ's Law, which is to love God and fellow humans, and to serve them.

Additionally, I wouldn't hang out with individuals from those belief systems anyways. They generally have a very poor understanding of the Scriptures. Their main activity is looking to accuse and condemn Christians for non-observance.

I should say that Christ's Law is what matters, not the Mosaic Law.

And, a person who has been joined to Christ should be obedient to it. I am not claiming that a person who has been joined to Christ fulfills it perfectly.

I don't think many "lawkeepers" have been joined to Christ. They don't talk about him enough. Instead they are fixated on the law. One clue might be how many times they use the word "law" versus "Jesus".

According to Rom 7:1-6, that makes them spiritual adulteresses.

 

[Whispered]

It’s not that the commandments are outdated but it’s the demand of the law for perfect obedience. It’s impossible so we need a sacrifice of innocence to cover our imperfection,.

That’s done in Jesus. We are covered forever in His righteousness. So we read the law and see Jesus. There comes the love in fellowship. Knowing we all are imperfect but in Him we are loved.

True. Then the contention arises in recalling the words of Jesus when he said, be ye perfect as I am perfect. Jesus reiterated the ten commands in his ministry so that they are not at all done away with.
However, one could ask, is it impossible to be perfect in obeying the ten commandments? Really?
If we recall them and then ask ourselves, is it hard to not follow those moral edicts?
"For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome." The Book of 1st John chapter 5 and verse 3

1. You shall have no other gods before Me.
2. You shall not make idols.
3. You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
4. Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
5. Honor your father and your mother.
6. You shall not murder.
7. You shall not commit adultery.
8. You shall not steal.
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
10. You shall not covet.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

In regards to "lawkeeper" group being "lawbreakers". I guess that is why you despise the Word/the scriptures, because you believe you must be able to have a Temple in order to keep the law. I say no, you must have a love for God and Christ and a love for your fellow beings, and we are now the Temple and be willing to walk in the light you are given, or else you will take the path that is very wide and broad and we all know where that leads, right?

Psa 119:34 Give me understanding, and I shall keep thy law; yea, I shall observe it with my whole heart.

I probably do more Bible study than you, by the way.

I don't hate the Mosaic Law. It serves a purpose. It should convince the person who looks into it that they are sinners in need of Jesus' righteousness, if they understand it correctly. It is only a vague representation of God's glory, though. Elements of it were meant to accomodate man's fallen nature, such as the divorce laws of Deuteronomy 24.

I don't worship the Law. I worship Jesus. Which word is on your lips the most, the Law or Jesus? If it is the first, then you're a spiritual adulteress. Read Rom 7:1-6.

 

[Noose]

Are you implying that believers are under the law and not under grace? How do you interpret “uphold the law” in Romans 3:31?

The law was about love then and it is about love now, only that people did not understand.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

True. Then the contention arises in recalling the words of Jesus when he said, be ye perfect as I am perfect. Jesus reiterated the ten commands in his ministry so that they are not at all done away with.
However, one could ask, is it impossible to be perfect in obeying the ten commandments? Really?
If we recall them and then ask ourselves, is it hard to not follow those moral edicts?
"For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome." The Book of 1st John chapter 5 and verse 3

1. You shall have no other gods before Me.
2. You shall not make idols.
3. You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
4. Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
5. Honor your father and your mother.
6. You shall not murder.
7. You shall not commit adultery.
8. You shall not steal.
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
10. You shall not covet.

The issue isn't obedience. The issue is which commandments.

Your view is:

commandments = Ten Commandments

Col 2:16-17 says that the Sabbath, festivals, New Moons are part of the "shadows" that belong to the old economy. See the similar language of Heb 10:1-4.

Therefore the Sabbath is not applicable.

However, there is a bigger issue in that somehow you think "commandments" are localized to the Ten Commandments, when the phrase applies to all of the commandments of Scripture that are applicable to a given individual. The Sabbath was only given to ancient Israel.

And, I mentioned Col 2:16-17 that groups the Sabbath with ceremonial aspects of the Law.

God's commandments are not just the Ten Commandments, nor is the Sabbath applicable anymore. Neither are festivals or clean meat laws. Neither is physical circumcision or purification rites, even though Paul observed them and did not forbid their observance amongst the Jews (Acts 21).

And, no amount of works can ever justify the believer. Justification is by faith alone, and occurs before the person has been joined to Christ. Therefore, he's unable to do good works pleasing to God at that point anyways.

 

[Whispered]

The law was not abolished, we are required to uphold it perfectly. But some will misunderstand me.

Rom 3:31Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Certainly not! Instead, we uphold the law.

The law is to love as God loves. Just as Jesus said.

 

[Melach]

As I mentioned, dispensational theology denies that there is one people of God, united in Christ. This is a fundamental teaching of Scripture. Unfortunately, it is the dominant belief system of conservative evangelicals, and this is largely because it accompanies Pentecostalism.

This topic will actually aggravate a lot of people because they are dispensationalists.

is there a chance pentecostals and conservative evangelicals might be right?

what do you believe personally? how do you interpret the land promises? the church doesnt have the land and many gentiles dont even care about it. i dont care about the land of israel. i like the north where i live, cold climate. israel climate is horrible

so will i one day inherit the land?

do you spiritualize land promises or what?

 

[Whispered]

In regards to "lawkeeper" group being "lawbreakers". I guess that is why you despise the Word/the scriptures, because you believe you must be able to have a Temple in order to keep the law. I say no, you must have a love for God and Christ and a love for your fellow beings, and we are now the Temple and be willing to walk in the light you are given, or else you will take the path that is very wide and broad and we all know where that leads, right?

Psa 119:34 Give me understanding, and I shall keep thy law; yea, I shall observe it with my whole heart.

I agree with your post. We are the temple. If a temple is required to keep the law of love, there you have it.
Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? If any man destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him, for the temple of God is holy, and that is what you are." The Apostle Saint Paul's Book of 1st Corinthians chapter 3 verses 16 & 17


We are to love as God loves: without partiality. "For the whole Law is fulfilled in one word, in the statement, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” The Apostle Saint Paul's letter to the church of Galatia: The Book of Galatians chapter 5 verse 14

"You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? If you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect. " The Book of Matthew chapter 5 verses 43 through 48