Twinkling of an eye

[garee]

[quoting those previous posts]

Re: "resurrection"... recall the two kind mentioned in John 5:29.

--"unto the resurrection OF LIFE"

--"unto the resurrection OF DAMNATION/JUDGMENT"

Both in the same twinkling of the eye . On the last day (only one last day)

John 6:39And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

John 6:40And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:44No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 11:24Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

John 12:48He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that "judgeth him": the word that I have spoken, the same shall "judge him" in the last day.

Explain why the Two Witnesses "ascended up to heaven" at the "6th Trumpet[events]/2nd Woe" (when after they ascend, Scripture says, "the third woe cometh quickly" and then [later] says "the seventh angel sounded [the 7th trumpet]" when [you are] saying EVERYONE/ALL SAINTS of ALL TIMES are [supposedly] to be "resurrected" at the 7th Trumpet... Why aren't THESE TWO?!? Why did THEY TWO "ascend" BEFORE that point in time? according to the "7th-Trumpet-[first-]resurrection" viewpoint [which is not my viewpoint]).

I would offer. The whole process comes in the twinkling of the eye. Just like the departure of faith in the garden of Eden .... Mankind did surely die by experiencing doing the will of another. The corruption had its first step when God saw jealously in the heart of his most beautiful angel.. . Satan stood in the Holy Place of God (faith) as the unseen voice spoken through the things seen. . the serpent.
The father of lies as a abomination desecrated the Holy Place of the unseen Glory of God.

The faith of Christ as the means of mankind hearing God not seen, departed. Just as the Ark departed in the wilderness by the hand of the enemy of Christ. .

The two witness are the law and the prophets (sola scriptura)

I think we could say seeing how the word "two" is used to represent "one" I believe one could say the two witnesses the Father and Son, our Prophet of all prophets. . . Jesus. I think he is the one prophesied of in Deuteronomy . mentioned in Hebrew in the last days the father spoke through the Son of man. Jesus

God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;hebrew1: 1-2


Deuteronomy 18:18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.


God does not accept the witness of men (private interpretations) . His witness as His interpretation is greater it reveals the intents of the hearts of sinners.

1 John 5:8-10 King James Version (KJV) And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son. He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Both in the same twinkling of the eye . On the last day (only one last day)
John 6:39And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
John 6:40And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:44No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 11:24Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
John 12:48He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that "judgeth him": the word that I have spoken, the same shall "judge him" in the last day.

I don't believe "the last day" is speaking of "a singular 24-hr day" (yes, certain things take place ON a singular 24-hr day OF "the Last Day," but I do not believe "the Last Day" as referred to in these passages speaks of "a singular 24-hr day," but more like the Final Millennium / Final Millennial Day, consisting of 1000 yrs, the "sabbatismos" of Heb4:9). The items listed above happened "IN the Last Day" (some at one point in time OF it; another throughout it!).

His judgment/governance will occur during that whole, entire long "Day" (and is entirely "earthly"/"earthly-located" just like "the DOTL"). I believe "the Church which is His body" is "translated" immediately before "the [earthly-located-time-period-of] the DOTL" ARRIVES to unfold upon the earth, with its "man of sin" and ALL he is slated to DO during the "DARK"/"IN THE NIGHT" [i.e. first-INITIAL-moments] aspect OF that entire long "DOTL" time period. OT saints, and Trib saints who die in the trib, will be "resurrected" (not "raptured") to "stand again on the earth" FOR the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom "IN the Last Day" (yes, on a particular 24-hr day OF "the Last Day"). This is the distinction, where Paul is saying in 1Cor15:51-54 "THIS corruption" ('the DEAD IN CHRIST' only, not regarding all saints of all times) and "THIS mortal" (the 'WE which are alive and remain unto'--i.e. the STILL-LIVING portion of 'the Church which is His body [cf 2Cor5:3-4], again, not all saints of all times; THESE pertain to "the mystery" theretofore not disclosed, but that which Paul was tasked with disclosing--not what OT saints already WELL-KNEW, Jn11:24, Job19:25-27, Dan12:13... not THAT)

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

EDIT: "during the "DARK"/"IN THE NIGHT" [i.e. first-INITIAL-moments+ (plus! totaling 7-yrs ['DARK'])] aspect OF that entire long "DOTL" time period." [note: "the DOTL" also goes on to INCLUDE the entire 1000-yr MK age (all of this is "the Last Day"--including things that take place "IN the Last Day" [at a particular point in time therein])]

 

[Nehemiah6]

I don't believe "the last day" is speaking of "a singular 24-hr day"

Correct. "The last day" is a metaphor for a very long period of time, which is over 1,000 years. One could say that "the last day" extends from the Rapture to the Great White Throne Judgment. After that there is a literal "last day" when the atmospheric heaven and the earth are supernaturally burned up. Then the New Heavens and the New Earth are established.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Correct. "The last day" is a metaphor for a very long period of time, which is over 1,000 years. One could say that "the last day" extends from the Rapture to the Great White Throne Judgment.

I fairly agree (with one minor caveat regarding the underlined).

I believe the phrase "in the twinkling of an eye" (pertaining SOLELY to "the Church which is His body" and our Rapture) very likely is a phrase referring to "the precise moment when one day turns into the next, when the sun is 8-degrees below the horizon, at sundown [i.e. 'dark']"... which means that WE ("the Church which is His body") have nothing whatsoever to do with the "DARK"/"DARKNESS"/"IN THE NIGHT" aspect of "the DOTL" time period (we won't be present on the earth for that aspect [its ARRIVAL to unfold upon the earth]); once our Lord takes out/catches up [i.e. "raptures"] ALL of the "Lightbulbs" on this earth, it will indeed be "dark"/"darkness" [the "IN THE NIGHT" time period, stated to be present at the ARRIVAL of "the DOTL," 1Th5:2-3], which time period IS when the "whose coming/advent/arrival/presence/parousia" of the man of sin WILL be here, to do all he is slated to do over those 7 yrs.

I believe this is Paul's argument in 2Th2 (how our Rapture "fits" TIME-WISE, IN RELATION TO the time period known as "the DOTL" with its "man of sin").

Thus, I believe "the DOTL" ARRIVES just immediately following our Rapture/Departure (as the words "AND THEN [kai tote]" always seem to be used, throughout Scripture, to indicate the sense of "then as a consequence/result/aftermath/fallout" or "then [immediately afterward]," unlike ANOTHER Grk word for "then," which just means "then [SEQUENTIALLY, with no time element attached to it]" as in 1Cor15:24 [in the context of a passage listing 3 things that each take place 2000y and 1000y apart from each other, i.e. SEQUENCE only]).

So, my point being, I believe it is Paul's argument to say that "the DOTL" starts FOLLOWING our Rapture (it does not include our Rapture... the references earlier to "raise him up IN the Last Day" I believe speak to those "resurrected [not raptured]" FOR the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom age)

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

^ and that idea kinda goes along with the other thing I've posted on, before, about how I believe "the 144,000 [of Israel]" (and said to be "firstfruit") are of a distinct "harvest" than that of "the Church which is His body" (also called "firstfruit"... but existing as "saints" on the earth at wholly distinct time periods--hence, they can each be called "firstfruit," ...but that of distinct "harvests"... and which coincide with the two distinct references to "firstfruit" in Lev23 [v.17 saying, of THAT one (the latter of the 2), "TWO loaves" and "baken WITH LEAVEN" (which is not "us"/"the Church which is His body" [the "ONE BODY"], per 1Cor5:7 )])

 

[Ahwatukee]

I wanted to start a thread to ask a few simple questions about the rapture theory. What ive found in scripture is no wheres near what i hear from the Rapturist. Ive found that when we are changed in the twinkling of an eye, we are not going to heaven but are going to the kingdom, the thousand year period of rest, right here on this earth. The changing {rapture} takes place on the Day of the Lord, after the tribulation period. When the "rapture" takes place is there even 1 scripture that says we are taken to heaven. Ive looked. Cant find a one.

Good day Wall!

Actually, the scripture is stated as follows:

"For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise. After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord."

So, in the scripture above the Lord descends from heaven, where the dead in Christ are resurrected immortal and glorified. Then immediately after that, those in Christ who are still alive are changed immortal and glorified (1 Cor.15:51-52) and are caught up with those who will have previously been resurrected. At this point the entire church will be gathered in the air where "we will always be with the Lord." The scripture says nothing about the thousand year period, but says in the interlinear "always with the Lord we will be." To say that it is the thousand years that the scripture is referring to, would be read into the scripture what is not there.

However, just like with all topics there are other supporting scriptures which give us more detail, such as the following:

"My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.

So, in the scripture above, Jesus tells His disciples and all believers, that there are many rooms in His Father's house and that He is going there to prepare places for us. Then He says that He will come back and take us to be with Him (in the Father's house) that we may be where He is, i.e. the Father's house. The Father's house can only be referring to heaven, which is where Jesus went to prepare those places for us. 1 Thessalonians 4:16 is a detailed account of the fulfillment of when the Lord comes back to get us as promise in John 14:1-3. We also have information regarding the church going to heaven found in the following scripture:

v33 - "Little children, I am with you only a little while longer. You will look for Me, and as I said to the Jews, so now I say to you: ‘Where I am going, you cannot come.’

v36 - “Lord, where are You going?” Simon Peter asked.

Jesus answered, “Where I am going, you cannot follow Me now, but you will follow later.”

Since we know from other scripture that Jesus ascended into heaven and sat down at the right hand of the Father, then we know that where He was going was heaven and the disciples and therefore all believers would follow later, referring to when He comes back to take us to the Father's house.

We have to address all of the related scriptures regarding any given Biblical subject in order to come to a right conclusion. Therefore, in 1 Thessalonians 4:16 when He says that we will meet the Lord in the air and that will always be with the Lord, it is referring to taking us back to the Father's house, which is where Jesus went to prepare those places for us.

The changing {rapture} takes place on the Day of the Lord, after the tribulation period. When the "rapture" takes place is there even 1 scripture that says we are taken to heaven. I've looked. Cant find a one.

First of all, "the day of the Lord" is not a single day, but a period of time, which is initiated when the church is gathered. The DOTL is comprised of the entire time of God's wrath, also referred to as "the hour of trial." As previously stated, the conclusion to when the gathering of the church takes place, is derived from all related scriptures, which paints a picture of the time-line. For example, we are told numerous times that believers are not appointed to suffer God's coming wrath. Therefore those in Christ must be removed prior to the on-set of God's wrath, which begins with the opening of the first seal. With your claim that "The changing {rapture} takes place on the Day of the Lord, after the tribulation period" you would be putting the living church through all of the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, which make up the tribulation period, which is the time of God's wrath. These judgments are not for those who have already believed in Christ, but for a Christ rejecting world. Regarding this, since Jesus has already experienced God's wrath on behalf of every believer satisfying it completely, then God's wrath no longer rests upon the believer and therefore will not be subject to His wrath.


I hope this information has been helpful to understanding this

 

[Ahwatukee]

i havent decide my prophecy view yet. but is it possible that john 14:1-3 is talking about the rapture? it mentions us taken to heaven.

that is one verse you can look at for one scripture that says we are taken to heaven.

You are correct Melach, John 14:1-3 is referring to when Jesus comes back to take the entire church to the Father's house to those places that He went to prepare for us.

 

[Nehemiah6]

I hope this information has been helpful to understanding this

Do you really think anyone wants to know the truth about these things? We are going round and round with all kinds of absurdities in so many threads.

 

[Nehemiah6]

i havent decide my prophecy view yet. but is it possible that john 14:1-3 is talking about the rapture? it mentions us taken to heaven.

It is not only possible, but this is the first passage in the New Testament which clearly spells out the Rapture. And yes, "my Father's house" means exactly that -- Heaven. At the same, it is specifically the New Jerusalem -- the heavenly city -- which has those mansions reserved for the saints of God. The New Jerusalem is presently in Heaven.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Do you really think anyone wants to know the truth about these things? We are going round and round with all kinds of absurdities in so many threads.

I think that it is just the hope that with all of the provided scriptures and the insight of the Spirit, that the light bulb might switch on.

This misunderstanding of the timing of the gathering of the church stems from at least two things, 1). not recognizing the underlying principle that Jesus already experienced God's wrath on behalf of all believers, which excludes all believers from God's coming wrath. And 2). Not understand the severity and magnitude of God's coming wrath. I say this because there are those who claim that God is going to protect the church on the earth during the time of His wrath, which demonstrates that they have not done an in depth study of the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments. The results of which support what Jesus said that "unless those day were shortened, no one would be saved."

The bottom line is that they are opting for the false teachings that they have adopted opposed to what God's word says.

 

[garee]

This misunderstanding of the timing of the gathering of the church stems from at least two things, 1). not recognizing the underlying principle that Jesus already experienced God's wrath on behalf of all believers, which excludes all believers from God's coming wrath. And 2).

I would think from a Amil position. No division. Its all the same one wrath .God does not divide wrath into different compartments .Its where oral traditions like purgatory comes in and limbo rock around the clock the not so how low can you go wrath.

Its the kind of wrath that came when mankind experienced doing the will of a creature seen. The wrath as the wage of sin. The wrath that made the glory of faith depart. The same wrath being revealed, revealed as corruption shown by these bodies of death .

The magnitude could not get any greater than when he first executed it. . He is protecting the church during the time of his wrath . That wrath will go on until the last day then he will throw it into the fire never to rise forever more.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Ugh, I'm catching another typo (one that makes a difference in how the reader might take what I've written)… where I had said:

The items listed above happened "IN the Last Day" (some at one point in time OF it; another throughout it!).

… I meant, "The items listed above HAPPEN "IN the Last Day"..." (not "happenED" as though they've already come to pass. Nope. Not what I'd intended to convey. )

Apologies, for my goof [will they never cease?! =] lol ]

 

[MattforJesus]

I wanted to start a thread to ask a few simple questions about the rapture theory. What ive found in scripture is no wheres near what i hear from the Rapturist. Ive found that when we are changed in the twinkling of an eye, we are not going to heaven but are going to the kingdom, the thousand year period of rest, right here on this earth. The changing {rapture} takes place on the Day of the Lord, after the tribulation period. When the "rapture" takes place is there even 1 scripture that says we are taken to heaven. Ive looked. Cant find a one.

The saints will be caught up to be with Jesus in heaven, but it is not the final destination of the saints, which is the New Jerusalem.

For the following reasons.

2Co 5:6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
2Co 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight)
2Co 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

When a saint dies they are with Jesus, and He is dwelling in heaven, so they are there with Him.

In the Old Testament the saints could not be in heaven with God, for their sins were not completely washed away, so they had to visit the underworld, although not punished, until Jesus shed His blood, then they could be with Jesus for their sins were completely washed away.

In the New Testament when a saint dies there is no need to visit the underworld, for their sins are completely washed away, so they can be with Jesus in heaven.

Luk 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
Luk 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

When a saint receives the Spirit the kingdom of God is within them, so when they die they can go directly to be with Jesus, and the kingdom they belong to, and do not need to visit the underworld.

We know Jesus dwells in heaven until He comes back, but a saint when on earth having the Spirit belongs to the kingdom of God, and is spiritual, so when they die they can be with Jesus, and do not have to visit the underworld waiting for Jesus to come back, and then be resurrected.

Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
Rev 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

These scriptures are concerning that there is saints on earth, and the saints in heaven are saying to Jesus when will you avenge us for the world going against us, and Jesus said He will avenge them when all the saints are with Him.

So there is saints in heaven while there is saints on earth awaiting those saints on earth to be gathered unto Jesus, and then Jesus will avenge them.

And when all the saints on earth are gathered unto Jesus then He will avenge them when He comes to earth and fights the world, and puts them down when they rebel against God at the beast kingdom, not acknowledging any personal God, and making it international law to not confess that Jesus is Lord and Savior, for their religion is evolution, and people can still evolve to be greater and spiritual provided by the New Age Christ.

All the saints will be gathered unto Christ is heaven, and then He will come back with all the saints, and fight the world and defeat them, and save Israel, which is the battle of Armageddon.

All the saints are not with Jesus, why, because there is saints on earth right now, and there is saints in heaven with Jesus that are awaiting all the saints to be with them, so they are with Jesus while there is saints on earth, so there is saints in heaven with Jesus now.

Act 1:9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
Act 1:10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
Act 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Jesus shall descend the same way that He ascended to heaven, and He was standing on the Mount of Olives.

When all the saints are gathered unto Christ in heaven then this is what happens, and when Jesus fights at the battle of Armageddon and defeats the world then the millennial reign of Christ will begin.

So eventually all the saints will be in heaven with Jesus before the millennial reign of Christ.

Zec 12:2 Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem.
Zec 12:3 And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.

Zec 14:1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
Zec 14:2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
Zec 14:3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

The battle of Armageddon when the world that followed the antichrist, man of sin, New Age Christ, go against Jerusalem, the Jews, Israel, for God turned the nation of Israel, all Jews, to the truth that Jesus is their Messiah, and the antichrist is persecuting all people that follow Jesus.

Which all Jews are back on their land by way of the Middle East peace treaty between the Jews and the Palestinians, for the Gentile nations will see to it that all Jews go to Israel, and the man of sin wants them all back on their land, but God means it for good towards the Jews.

Which when God turns Israel to the truth then they shall know the LORD their God from that time forward, and He shall never hide His face from them again.

All people that followed the antichrist will attack Jersualem, the Jews, and the the LORD God shall go forth, and fight against those nations, as when He fought in the day of battle when He fought for Israel in the Old Testament.

Zec 14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
Zec 14:5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

The LORD, who is Jesus, shall step down on the Mount of Olives the same way He ascended, and the Mount of Olives shall split where the Jews will run in to the split to shield them from the brightness of Jesus that shall defeat His enemies by melting the flesh off their bones, and also to have an escape route to get away from their enemies.

The reason that half the city is taken, and not the other half, is because the Jews split Jerusalem with the Palestinians as part of that peace treaty, and the world runs right over the Palestinian side to get to the Jews, but are stopped when they get to the Jews, for all Israel shall be saved.

Which when Jesus fights the world it is before the millennial reign of Christ, and all the saints are with Him, for the LORD my God shall come and all the saints with Him, and when He defeats the world then the millennial reign begins.

So the saints must of went to heaven to be with Jesus before the millennial reign of Christ, and then Jesus comes back with all the saints, and defeats the world, and then the millennial reign begins.

For the millennial reign will not start until Jesus put down the world, but when He comes to put down the world the saints are with Him.

Continued,

 

[MattforJesus]

Continued,

Rev 19:1 And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God.

There is people in heaven at this time.

Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

There is people in heaven before Jesus fights the world, and the millennial reign begins.

There is people in heaven before the millennial reign starts.

Rev 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

And the saints come back with Jesus when He fights the world before the millennial reign of Christ begins.

So there is people in heaven before the millennial reign of Christ, for to be absent from the body is the be present with the Lord, for as soon as a saint dies they are with Jesus, and when all the saints are gathered unto Christ then He will avenge them, and come back with all the saints, and defeat the world, and save Israel.

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

In Revelation 19 it states that there is many people in heaven, and then Jesus comes to fight the world, and all the saints come with Him, and then in Revelation 20 the millennial reign begins.

There is people right now in heaven with Jesus, and all the saints will be with Him before the millennial reign begins.

Joe 3:11 Assemble yourselves, and come, all ye heathen, and gather yourselves together round about: thither cause thy mighty ones to come down, O LORD.

This is concerning the battle of Armageddon, and the saints are the mighty ones that come down with the LORD as He fights the world, and defeats them, and then the millennial reign will begin.

1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

The twinkling of an eye is the wrong translation for it should be a twitching of the nose as it has been discovered in a new transcript, the Trinidad and Tobago text.

Alright I am joking about that, but some people think they are not translating the Bible correctly in the newer translations.

Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, so the saints that are with Jesus are not in the flesh, and it says there are souls under the alter asking Jesus when He will avenge them.

So I believe that the souls in heaven, people, do not have their glorified body yet, but all the saints will receive their glorified body at the time of the resurrection.

If the saints are with Jesus when they die, for to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord, then I believe when the dead shall rise first is the people that died in the Lord that are with Jesus in heaven shall receive their glorified body first, and then the saints that remain alive on earth shall be caught up, and receive their glorified body.

There are saints in heaven with Jesus now, and eventually all the saints shall be with Him, and then Jesus shall come back with all the saints, and fight the world, and defeat them, and save Israel, and then the millennial reign shall begin.

For the army in heaven, people, come with Jesus when He fights the world, and in another place, thither cause the mighty ones to come down, O LORD, and in another place, and the LORD my God shall come and all the saints with thee.

So the saints must of been caught up to heaven to be with Jesus before the millennial reign of Christ to come back with Him when He fights the world.

There is no need for a saint to visit the underworld awaiting the resurrection, for they are saved, and have the Spirit, and with the Spirit behold the kingdom of God is within them, so why wouldn't they go to be with Jesus when they die if they already belong to the kingdom of God while on earth.

 

[preston39]

Both in the same twinkling of the eye . On the last day (only one last day)

John 6:39And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

John 6:40And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:44No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 11:24Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

John 12:48He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that "judgeth him": the word that I have spoken, the same shall "judge him" in the last day.



I would offer. The whole process comes in the twinkling of the eye. Just like the departure of faith in the garden of Eden .... Mankind did surely die by experiencing doing the will of another. The corruption had its first step when God saw jealously in the heart of his most beautiful angel.. . Satan stood in the Holy Place of God (faith) as the unseen voice spoken through the things seen. . the serpent.
The father of lies as a abomination desecrated the Holy Place of the unseen Glory of God.

The faith of Christ as the means of mankind hearing God not seen, departed. Just as the Ark departed in the wilderness by the hand of the enemy of Christ. .

The two witness are the law and the prophets (sola scriptura)

I think we could say seeing how the word "two" is used to represent "one" I believe one could say the two witnesses the Father and Son, our Prophet of all prophets. . . Jesus. I think he is the one prophesied of in Deuteronomy . mentioned in Hebrew in the last days the father spoke through the Son of man. Jesus

God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;hebrew1: 1-2


Deuteronomy 18:18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.


God does not accept the witness of men (private interpretations) . His witness as His interpretation is greater it reveals the intents of the hearts of sinners.

1 John 5:8-10 King James Version (KJV) And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son. He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

Enoch and Elijah. They have not died a physical death and scripture tells us...all must die ...once.

They act ......per scriptures.

 

[garee]

Enoch and Elijah. They have not died a physical death and scripture tells us...all must die ...once.

They act ......per scriptures.

Christians walk by faith the unseen eternal. . . not by sight the temporal after corrupted flesh.

Enoch and Elijah were born into a body of death appointed to die . They prophesied of the grace that should come unto us: The parable you are speaking of represents the first resurrection Enoch and Elijah were part of the glory that followed. The graves were opened they enter the new heavenly Jerusalem .

Today they are dead asleep waiting for the wake up call …..Arise! receive your new incorruptible bodies. They received the end of their salvation of their new souls rom the beginning as did we when we first heard the voice our first experience in hearing and believing Him not seen the Eternal One. .

Enoch and Elijah a beautiful picture of the gospel.

Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls. Of which salvation the prophets (Enoch and Elijah.) have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them (Enoch and Elijah.) did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. Pete1:10-11

 

[preston39]

Christians walk by faith the unseen eternal. . . not by sight the temporal after corrupted flesh.

Enoch and Elijah were born into a body of death appointed to die . They prophesied of the grace that should come unto us: The parable you are speaking of represents the first resurrection Enoch and Elijah were part of the glory that followed. The graves were opened they enter the new heavenly Jerusalem .

Today they are dead asleep waiting for the wake up call …..Arise! receive your new incorruptible bodies. They received the end of their salvation of their new souls rom the beginning as did we when we first heard the voice our first experience in hearing and believing Him not seen the Eternal One. .

Enoch and Elijah a beautiful picture of the gospel.

Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls. Of which salvation the prophets (Enoch and Elijah.) have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them (Enoch and Elijah.) did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. Pete1:10-11

Check your scriptures...they were Raptured...and have not died a physical death.

 

[garee]

Check your scriptures...they were Raptured...and have not died a physical death.

They were shown in a vision a manner of prophecy as rising.

Is there a reason you glory in the corrupted flesh of mankind Even the Son of Man Jesus replied. . . . it profits for nothing Zero What's the hope?

Check the way you hear scripture. Parables hide the unseen understanding. Rapture simply mean rise or resurrect,. It is appointed for all corrupted flesh and blood dependent on a corrupted spirit to die once then the second death will be cast in the lake of fire.

Flesh and corrupted blood could never enter the kingdom of God. Same with other visions used in the bible the parable must be interpreted

 

[Ahwatukee]

Enoch and Elijah. They have not died a physical death and scripture tells us...all must die ...once.

They act ......per scriptures.

I agree that neither Enoch nor Elijah experienced physical death. However I would mention that, those in Christ who are alive at the time when the resurrection takes place, will not experience death either, but will simply be changed immortal and glorified and will be caught up. And I'm so looking forward to that day! Even so, come Lord Jesus!