Two things God wants for you.

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Dec 30, 2019
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They go through all the motions and rituals and encourage others to join them...But they've got nothing behind it.
Positive thinking and positive confession has value. Even if the value is equal to the placebo effect. Still man's faith does give us results. We need to go beyond what man can do to enter into the realm of what God can do. This means we have to know the promises of God and what HE has made available for us. When we do our part of the covenant then we can be sure that God will do His part. For example we are to delight our-self in the Lord. So when we figure out what this means to delight our-self in Him THEN He will do His part to give us the desires of our Heart. In this case you seem to be saying: "This people honors Me with the lips, but their heart is kept far away from Me" (Matthew15:8) So if this group of people were called to repentance to give their heart to God and make Him their first love, then true revival will come to this church that you are talking about. This is all about the love we have for God. Our worship is to be an expression of our Love for Him. A sweet Aroma onto God (2cor2:15)
 

ForestGreenCook

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Show the elects sin washed away by the crucifixion in scripture.
Eph 1:4-5, According as he has chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, That we should be holy and without blame before him in love, Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, to the good pleasure of his will. Christ paid the adoption price on the cross by taking (washing) our sins away. John 6:39. and made us holy and without blame.
 

Wansvic

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Eph 1:4-5, According as he has chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, That we should be holy and without blame before him in love, Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, to the good pleasure of his will. Christ paid the adoption price on the cross by taking (washing) our sins away. John 6:39. and made us holy and without blame.
Peter and Ananias commanded individuals to be water baptized in order for their sins be washed away. (Acts 2:38, 22:16) Do you actually believe they provided the listeners with false information?
 

KelbyofGod

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It is though the Blood of Jesus that we wash our Garment which is symbolic for our flesh. The Physical body that we wear over our Spiritual body. ""Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city." (Rev 22:14) "they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb." (Rev 7:14)
Hi JohnR7,
Jesus did his part to make his blood available for us. This thread is partly here to point out HOW we get to partake in what he did for us. So many do not know that we need to be planted in the likeness of his death if we want to also be in the likeness of his resurrection.

Romans 6:5 KJV
"For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:"


He even explains that baptism is the mechanism by which this is accomplished.

Romans 6:4 KJV
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.


Those are both straight out of the scriptures but they are of no profit to the hearers if not mixed with faith.

Hebrews 4:2 KJV
For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
 

KelbyofGod

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Oct 8, 2017
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Positive thinking and positive confession has value. Even if the value is equal to the placebo effect. Still man's faith does give us results. We need to go beyond what man can do to enter into the realm of what God can do. This means we have to know the promises of God and what HE has made available for us. When we do our part of the covenant then we can be sure that God will do His part. For example we are to delight our-self in the Lord. So when we figure out what this means to delight our-self in Him THEN He will do His part to give us the desires of our Heart. In this case you seem to be saying: "This people honors Me with the lips, but their heart is kept far away from Me" (Matthew15:8) So if this group of people were called to repentance to give their heart to God and make Him their first love, then true revival will come to this church that you are talking about. This is all about the love we have for God. Our worship is to be an expression of our Love for Him. A sweet Aroma onto God (2cor2:15)
True, about the placebo effect.

Jeremiah 6:14 KJV
They have healed also the hurt of the daughter of my people slightly, saying, Peace, peace; when there is no peace.


They feel better because they're told they have what they need....without actually having what they need. <--ponder the consequences of that one.

And of a truth, if any will truly seek God within that church, God will be quick to move to get them what they actually need.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 

ForestGreenCook

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Peter and Ananias commanded individuals to be water baptized in order for their sins be washed away. (Acts 2:38, 22:16) Do you actually believe they provided the listeners with false information?
1 Pet 3:20, When once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was preparing, wherein few , that is, eight souls were SAVED BY WATER, Saved from drowning, not saved eternally. The like figure whereunto even baptism doeth also now save,(not eternally, but from a bad conscience), but an answer of a good conscience toward God.
 

Deade

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At the same time that he commanded the emblems of his blood and body, he also commanded the washing of each others feet. Why do most communions leave that commandment out?
Seventh-Day Adventist do the foot washing ceremony. As well as most Church of God (Seventh-day) churches. I have done this and it is spiritually humbling, and a blessing comes from it. 6-old-thumbsup.gif
 

Wansvic

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1 Pet 3:20, When once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was preparing, wherein few , that is, eight souls were SAVED BY WATER, Saved from drowning, not saved eternally. The like figure whereunto even baptism doeth also now save,(not eternally, but from a bad conscience), but an answer of a good conscience toward God.
You did not answer my question. "Peter and Ananias commanded individuals to be water baptized in order for their sins be washed away. (Acts 2:38, 22:16) Do you actually believe they provided the listeners with false information?"

In addition, the scripture you quote does not include "(not eternally, but from a bad conscience)" This is your personal interpretation. The scripture states clearly that water baptism does now save us.
 

KelbyofGod

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In addition, the scripture you quote does not include "(not eternally, but from a bad conscience)" This is your personal interpretation. The scripture states clearly that water baptism does now save us.
I think one reason people have such a problem with the verse (1 Peter 3:21) that says "baptism doth also now save us" is that they've been taught so strongly, a one-step gospel... Kind of like they've also been taught to focus on only one aspect of what Jesus came to do (die for our sins) and overlook another aspect (give us the Holy Ghost). Hence the reason for this thread. An overly simplistic view 'protects' us from reality.

The idea that the bible says baptism saves us seems preposterous because it contradicts the instantaneous, single-event, only one requirement message many have been taught. Yes, I understand it sounds blasphemous to question what our pastors have taught us, but the bible says to "let God be true, but every man a liar". And it is understandably scary to consider the possibility that our pastor/priest/teacher/etc (who seems more learned than ourselves) could possibly be "the blind, leading the blind". But if we're going to "let God be true, but every man a liar" we're going to have to find and face those areas where what we've been taught doesn't match what is written...and distrust what we've been taught instead of what is written. The key to doing that (without hyperventilating..lol) is to understand that God is not nearly as surprised by i as we are. :)

Have you ever thought what Peter may have been thinking right after that feet washing thing? :) For example:
  1. "You mean to tell me that there was more that I needed, and you didn't tell me?!"
  2. "How come you didn't tell me sooner?!"
  3. "What if I was gone that day?!"
  4. "What if I'd failed to change my mind?!"
  5. And my favorite..."What else is there?...Are there other things that are required that you haven't told us yet?!"
Don't those seem like reasonable questions? :) Please consider that the first four are come out of our fear, insecurity and lack of trust. Number 5 comes out of prudence.

We have to be willing to face our fears to if we ever want to get to the prudent questions. Ignorance insulates us from both.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 

ForestGreenCook

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You did not answer my question. "Peter and Ananias commanded individuals to be water baptized in order for their sins be washed away. (Acts 2:38, 22:16) Do you actually believe they provided the listeners with false information?"

In addition, the scripture you quote does not include "(not eternally, but from a bad conscience)" This is your personal interpretation. The scripture states clearly that water baptism does now save us.
If you want to believe that in light of 1 Pet 3:20, then so be it. None of us can discern the truth unless it is revealed to us by the Holy Spirit within us. Greek meaning of saved= "bring safe". In this particular verse saved does not imply "eternal salvation".
 

laughingheart

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I especially like your second to last statement "What he wants for us is, in effect, Him". That is both simple and profound. And ought to be pondered much.

The danger I see (not accusing you of this because I don't know much about you) is that people are able to use the words without comprehending the extent of the meaning or the power behind them. And they don't seek it out.

There is a church that I visit fairly regularly that has all the instruments, music, microphones, lights, sound systems, projection screens, etc. They sing, dance, lift up their hands, smile, laugh, shake everybody's hands, etc. They go through all the motions and rituals and encourage others to join them...But they've got nothing behind it. I heard someone describe them this way..."I've never seen people try so hard to serve God without actually getting it done." (or something to that effect). What that person was recognizing is that those people "have a form of godliness, but are denying the power thereof". Meaning they found a way to say the right words and do the actions without an ounce of power being behind it. (Amazing!). And the sad thing is they proclaim the same words that you were using (which are pretty much right words)... "It's all about relationship" <--It's actually one of their main catch phrases.

But when I compare the quality of their "relationship" with that of those mentioned in the bible like Moses, David, Jonah, any of the apostles, Cornelius, or even the 12 unnamed disciples in Acts 19:1-7, etc. I see a whole different level of "relationship". In the relationships described in the Bible, I see a relationship where God shows up and does something for them. Answers their prayers, works miracles, directs their actions even personally or through angels, if need be. He's not a deadbeat dad so to speak. He does way more than send them a few letters and call it good.

That difference in the level of relationship is one of the things I saw lacking in my own life...which is why I started seeking God more earnestly. Especially when my ability to create problems exceeded my ability to solve those problems. I needed (wanted to serve) a real God. A biblical scale God. A God who would stand up for me like he stood up for the children of Israel. A God who could and would fix problems. Not a powerless church version of God.

And what did I find when I started seeking God like that...like he is still the kind of God he was in the bible...and ought to still be willing to stand up and support his children like he did in those biblical examples? I found out that He IS still like that! He will still speak. He will still move, heal, etc. And he will still stand up for his children. And it's awesome to be a part of it!

Then I (as well as others who've sought him desperately ) come in here to tell people that "Hey, God wants to do more for you than what you've had so far. Here are some of the specific things he's got for you and how they are accomplished." And encourage others to seek him out... until they find HIM... not a group of people who say words we like to hear but have no power. "For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power." (1 Corinthians 4:20 KJV)

I know your post didn't ask for this much response, but sometimes a person just needs to vent. Thanks for listening.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

"It is enough for the disciple that he be [not just claim to be] as his master, and the servant as his lord. ..." Matt 10:25 KJV
I do understand that the words don't necessarily reflect actions. For myself I have always been aware of God. When I was in my teens I started having horrible migraines. I was very dependent on God's mercy. When I graduated I was a religious studies major at a Christian university because I wanted to be a missionary. I was so sure of all the good things I was going to do to serve (yes this is foreshadowing). The migraines began to leave me blind at least a couple of times a week. I was beside myself with pain and frustration. "Why God? How can I study and learn and serve you if I can't even see? I'm going to have to leave school and I won't be employable. What do you want from me? What do you want? ". The answer came quietly. I don't honestly know if I heard it but it or it might have been something strongly impressed on my thoughts."You. I want you. See me, hear me, know me." I remember laughing rather bitterly. I remember yelling, "You want this? I have nothing to offer. I'm a joke. A useless joke." I sobbed and then I was quiet. I stopped fighting. I stopped trying to run ahead and do what I thought best. Later that year I transferred over to being a history major and ended up as a medical social worker. It ended up being where I needed to serve. He didn't want me in Russia as a missionary. He had other plans. Years later I heard a little Egyptian pastor talk about God. He said, "God is sensitive." Again my heart was broken. I knew he was holy, just, and powerful and that we needed to obey. When I failed I felt the failure. Hearing this, I fell to my knees and apologized for his pain. That, I could relate to and it grew my love.
At times, like anyone else, I can forget and get caught up in busy work but I know that the core of who we are meant to be is in companionship with God. For me, that is my purpose.
Thank you so much for sharing your heart and thoughts. You speak with passion about the truth. God doesn't want religion and correct, but meaningless behaviours. He wants our hearts for him. He wants our faith. You are indeed my brother Kelby. Thanks.
 

Wansvic

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If you want to believe that in light of 1 Pet 3:20, then so be it. None of us can discern the truth unless it is revealed to us by the Holy Spirit within us. Greek meaning of saved= "bring safe". In this particular verse saved does not imply "eternal salvation".
As mentioned previously the bible is the final authority concerning truth. Do you actually believe that Peter and Ananias provided their listeners with false information?"

"Peter and Ananias commanded individuals to be water baptized in order for their sins be washed away. (Acts 2:38, 22:16)
 

KelbyofGod

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Oct 8, 2017
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I do understand that the words don't necessarily reflect actions. For myself I have always been aware of God. When I was in my teens I started having horrible migraines. I was very dependent on God's mercy. When I graduated I was a religious studies major at a Christian university because I wanted to be a missionary. I was so sure of all the good things I was going to do to serve (yes this is foreshadowing). The migraines began to leave me blind at least a couple of times a week. I was beside myself with pain and frustration. "Why God? How can I study and learn and serve you if I can't even see? I'm going to have to leave school and I won't be employable. What do you want from me? What do you want? ". The answer came quietly. I don't honestly know if I heard it but it or it might have been something strongly impressed on my thoughts."You. I want you. See me, hear me, know me." I remember laughing rather bitterly. I remember yelling, "You want this? I have nothing to offer. I'm a joke. A useless joke." I sobbed and then I was quiet. I stopped fighting. I stopped trying to run ahead and do what I thought best. Later that year I transferred over to being a history major and ended up as a medical social worker. It ended up being where I needed to serve. He didn't want me in Russia as a missionary. He had other plans. Years later I heard a little Egyptian pastor talk about God. He said, "God is sensitive." Again my heart was broken. I knew he was holy, just, and powerful and that we needed to obey. When I failed I felt the failure. Hearing this, I fell to my knees and apologized for his pain. That, I could relate to and it grew my love.
At times, like anyone else, I can forget and get caught up in busy work but I know that the core of who we are meant to be is in companionship with God. For me, that is my purpose.
Thank you so much for sharing your heart and thoughts. You speak with passion about the truth. God doesn't want religion and correct, but meaningless behaviors. He wants our hearts for him. He wants our faith. You are indeed my brother Kelby. Thanks.
I think we (humans) get the measurements wrong. What I mean is that we so often don't understand what is really important. We underestimate the value of US, for one ... as your experience also demonstrates. We think that doing this or accomplishing that is somehow what God wants. Or NOT doing something... like "If I can only stop sinning in THIS area".

Our church has this song that I used to hate, but perhaps not for the reasons some might assume. One verse simply repeats "I say 'Yes, Lord.' ". The next verse "Have thy way, Lord". Then back to "I say (or said) 'Yes, Lord.'" Then repeat until end of song. I got to where I wouldn't sing it. I hated to say or sing it because I see the areas or portions of my life where I (based on my actions/choices/desires) fail to give God the love that is due unto him. To sing it knowing that I was unable to deliver in ALL corners of my life felt like I was just pretending not to be the biggest hypocrite there is, no matter how many "good" attributes I might have. And to NOT sing it felt like I was basically spitting in his face.

I don't remember the circumstances or conversation God and I were having just prior to him showing me this but what he showed me during one singing was that I was looking at the song incorrectly. And he reminded me of the "Yes, Lord" that I HAD actually said to him. It wasn't any kind of a promise of perfect behavior...or a willingness to submit to whatever he told me. It was basically a "Hey, If you really want this broken, steaming, heap of a life (with all my frailties) and want to do something with it, You can have it." I'd included no promise of perfection in the "Yes, Lord" that I'd committed to originally, and he wasn't expecting one through my singing of that song now. In fact, the song actually acts as a reminder to His obligation to make something of me...not of me promising to behave perfectly. Well, I'm not going to try to explain how that made me feel, but I promise there were tears involved.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 

KelbyofGod

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Oct 8, 2017
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I do understand that the words don't necessarily reflect actions. For myself I have always been aware of God. When I was in my teens I started having horrible migraines. I was very dependent on God's mercy. When I graduated I was a religious studies major at a Christian university because I wanted to be a missionary. I was so sure of all the good things I was going to do to serve (yes this is foreshadowing). The migraines began to leave me blind at least a couple of times a week. I was beside myself with pain and frustration. "Why God? How can I study and learn and serve you if I can't even see? I'm going to have to leave school and I won't be employable. What do you want from me? What do you want? ". The answer came quietly. I don't honestly know if I heard it but it or it might have been something strongly impressed on my thoughts."You. I want you. See me, hear me, know me." I remember laughing rather bitterly. I remember yelling, "You want this? I have nothing to offer. I'm a joke. A useless joke." I sobbed and then I was quiet. I stopped fighting. I stopped trying to run ahead and do what I thought best. Later that year I transferred over to being a history major and ended up as a medical social worker. It ended up being where I needed to serve. He didn't want me in Russia as a missionary. He had other plans. Years later I heard a little Egyptian pastor talk about God. He said, "God is sensitive." Again my heart was broken. I knew he was holy, just, and powerful and that we needed to obey. When I failed I felt the failure. Hearing this, I fell to my knees and apologized for his pain. That, I could relate to and it grew my love.
At times, like anyone else, I can forget and get caught up in busy work but I know that the core of who we are meant to be is in companionship with God. For me, that is my purpose.
Thank you so much for sharing your heart and thoughts. You speak with passion about the truth. God doesn't want religion and correct, but meaningless behaviours. He wants our hearts for him. He wants our faith. You are indeed my brother Kelby. Thanks.
I'm quoting you again because I get so much joy out of reading your post. :)

First I want to say "THANK YOU" for taking your questions to God. By doing so, you give him opportunity to answer. We forget that God HAS to keep his word lest he be a liar. And his word says "You have not because you ask not." Do you realize that he has to keep that word all the way to watching those that he loves go down into hell with burdens he was eager and desirous to remove from them?

You mentioned that He is sensitive...and He is. So many times he longs to relieve our pains, lift our burdens, comfort our hearts...but we refuse to ask for his help. And he weeps like he wept over Jerusalem:

Luke 19:41-44 KJV
And when he was come near, he beheld the city, and wept over it, [42] Saying, If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes. [43] For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side, [44] And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation.


Sorry, that part was kind of on the sad side. What I started this post to say was actually on the side of when we DO take our requests to him because your post reminded me of something that happened after the attacks on 9/ll.

I'd been noticing that in every catastrophe the news would cover the story of some person or persons who, in the middle of the catastrophe, would cry out to God...and God would deliver them. 9/ll was no different. There was a guy on one of the floors that the airplane hit. He was injured and trapped under some rubble with no way out because everyone with the ability to leave had already abandoned that area. But he prayed something along the lines of "God, I don't want to die like this. Please don't let me die like this". In short, God sent someone to him that was coming down from the upper floors (if I remember correctly) who helped him to safety.

The news actually covered it from his point of view AND from the perspective of the person who eventually came to help him. That guy explained that he'd felt led to take the path he did for some reason, and that he had clear passage the whole way even though others gave accounts of intense smoke. On his way he'd heard the cries of this man and turned aside to help. It was a cool story and fit the pattern I'd been noticing.

I was thinking of that story while praying one day and said "God, thank you for being accepting of man when he has nothing to offer and all to ask" when God stopped me and said "Pay attention to what you just said." I did (and still do).

Your prayer (and mine too) fits that same pattern. You faced the realization that you had nothing worthy to exchange for what was both your true internal desire and his will that he was offering to you...and yet you left it at the alter of exchange (so to speak). And it was accepted.

What I consider to be a subversion of that concept has actually been bothering me for the last several days. It's the idea that we need to "Give our life to Christ" (as if he needs it, or that it is of some value to him) and "Accept him as your personal Lord and savior" (as an agreement to submit to his leadings from now on). If there's one thing we've both discovered is that what we have to offer is more of a detriment than an offering...and our ability to submit to his will is just as corrupt.

I see several places where he tells us we'll have to lay down our lives...but I don't see where he intends to pick that part up. :) As you said, what he wants is US (not our lives). And he wants to GIVE us his life in replacement. Which I guess is the reason I created this thread (at God's direction).

Baptism isn't an accepting of what we had to offer... it's the removal of it from us, so we could be clean. And the outpouring of the Holy Ghost isn't saying that our future dealings would be any better than what they were before...but rather the provision of the power we didn't/don't possess if left in our natural condition. (The power to overcome what we had to offer).

Not sure how to end this, but I needed to say at least that much. :)

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 

ForestGreenCook

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As mentioned previously the bible is the final authority concerning truth. Do you actually believe that Peter and Ananias provided their listeners with false information?"

"Peter and Ananias commanded individuals to be water baptized in order for their sins be washed away. (Acts 2:38, 22:16)
You are repeating yourself, and that question has been answered.
 

Wansvic

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You are repeating yourself, and that question has been answered.
In which post did you give your answer? I don't recall seeing your answer to the following:

Ananias told Paul to wash away his sins by being baptized while calling upon the name of Jesus. (Acts 22:16) And Peter said that everyone was to be baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus for the remission of sins. (Acts 2:38) My question was whether you believed that Ananias and Peter gave false information in these scriptures regarding how sins are washed away?
 

ForestGreenCook

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In which post did you give your answer? I don't recall seeing your answer to the following:

Ananias told Paul to wash away his sins by being baptized while calling upon the name of Jesus. (Acts 22:16) And Peter said that everyone was to be baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus for the remission of sins. (Acts 2:38) My question was whether you believed that Ananias and Peter gave false information in these scriptures regarding how sins are washed away?
You are interpreting it wrong and I gave you scripture to show why.
 

ForestGreenCook

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In which post did you give your answer? I don't recall seeing your answer to the following:

Ananias told Paul to wash away his sins by being baptized while calling upon the name of Jesus. (Acts 22:16) And Peter said that everyone was to be baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus for the remission of sins. (Acts 2:38) My question was whether you believed that Ananias and Peter gave false information in these scriptures regarding how sins are washed away?
If Jesus paid for the sins of those that God gave him, then why would he tell them to be baptised to wash them away?