Two things God wants for you.

[Deuteronomy]

It was ultimately faith that saved in both the OT and NT, faith in obeying what God command you to do at each time period.

Hello Guojing, what do you mean by "faith in obeying .. God"

...in the OT, the Jews were saved by faith in what God revealed to them. And what did God reveal to them during that time? "Keep the Law of Moses, circumcise your male kids, and offer an animal sacrifice every time you sin."

But none of them kept the Law of Moses .. e.g. Romans 3:23*, cf James 2:10-11 .. "not even one" .. Romans 3:10-12.

Just like us today therefore, the OT saints were all sinners who needed to have their sins atoned for and forgiven to be saved, which requires the shedding of blood .. Hebrews 9:22. But, as has already been discussed in this thread, the blood of sacrificed bulls and goats saved no one in OT times .. e.g. Hebrews 10:4, so how were the OT saints' sins atoned for and forgiven

Thanks!

~Deut

Romans 3​

23 All have sinned* and fall short of the glory of God.​

*(for what it's worth, here, in the culminating verse of the first three chapters of Romans, is an example of "sin" being used in its verb form by the Apostle Paul)
.

 

[Guojing]

Hello Guojing, what do you mean by "faith in obeying .. God"


But none of them kept the Law of Moses .. e.g. Romans 3:23*, cf James 2:10-11 .. "not even one" .. Romans 3:10-12.

Just like us today therefore, the OT saints were all sinners who needed to have their sins atoned for and forgiven to be saved, which requires the shedding of blood .. Hebrews 9:22. But, as has already been discussed in this thread, the blood of sacrificed bulls and goats saved no one in OT times .. e.g. Hebrews 10:4, so how were the OT saints' sins atoned for and forgiven

Thanks!

~Deut

Romans 3​

23 All have sinned* and fall short of the glory of God.​

*(for what it's worth, here, in the culminating verse of the first three chapters of Romans, is an example of "sin" being used in its verb form by the Apostle Paul)
.

You believe God when he tells you to sacrifice an animal for your sins and he will accept you.

Even though you don’t understand how that can happen, you do that out of faith in what God said.

God sees what you done and credit your faith as righteousness.

Same as Abel, he offered the correct sacrifice in faith

Same as Abraham, he put his faith in God’s promise that he will somehow be a father of many, even though he was currently childless.

 

[Guojing]

Hello Guojing, what do you mean by "faith in obeying .. God"


But none of them kept the Law of Moses .. e.g. Romans 3:23*, cf James 2:10-11 .. "not even one" .. Romans 3:10-12.

Just like us today therefore, the OT saints were all sinners who needed to have their sins atoned for and forgiven to be saved, which requires the shedding of blood .. Hebrews 9:22. But, as has already been discussed in this thread, the blood of sacrificed bulls and goats saved no one in OT times .. e.g. Hebrews 10:4, so how were the OT saints' sins atoned for and forgiven

Thanks!

~Deut

Romans 3​

23 All have sinned* and fall short of the glory of God.​

*(for what it's worth, here, in the culminating verse of the first three chapters of Romans, is an example of "sin" being used in its verb form by the Apostle Paul)
.

To answer your 2nd part about no one keeping the law of Moses, yes that is correct. God already knew that, hence he told them to sacrifice an animal every time they fail to meet it.

He knew that Jesus would be the final sacrifice for sins so he forgave them and declared them justified based on the lamb sacrifice, as Balaam prophesied in numbers. The animal sacrifice in the ot is like a credit card payment.

But the ot Jews was not told about Jesus yet, so all they could do is to believe that the animal sacrifice would work and God saw that as faith. That is also why Balaam told Balak that the only way he would succeed in cursing the Jews will be to bring gentile ladies to seduce the Jews into following other gods and stop sacrificing animals.

It worked and some Jews stopped the animal sacrifice, hence they suffered the wrath of God.

That won’t happen to us now because our righteousness is based on Jesus as our representative cutting the covenant with God and God the father promising his Son that whoever believes in his death burial and resurrection will be permanently justified.

 

[KelbyofGod]

Kelby is not looking for biblical answers. He is simply promoting his false doctrine of baptismal regeneration. And no matter how many Scriptures you show him that refute his doctrine, he remains adamant in his beliefs. That is usually the case with all who hold to false teachings. They love the lie more than the truth.

Nehemiah,

About a week ago I happened to watch a video explaining how a "straw man argument" works. A straw man is a form of argument and an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent.

You are presenting a great opportunity to start a straw man argument with your quoted post. You made the statement (even using a bold type-face so i wouldn't miss the bait) that I am promoting a doctrine called "baptismal regeneration" That way you can attack some aspect of that doctrine later as if attacking something that I said. However, I'm not familiar with the "doctrine of baptismal regeneration" and see no reason to try to teach others about it. You are welcome to start another thread and teach people about "baptismal regeneration" if you'd like.

Meanwhile, I will continue to teach "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." ...as did Peter in Acts 2:38.

Also, I know that God has offered you opportunity to repent [have a change of heart] and align yourself with his word. I would not that you remain rebellious to his calling.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

 

[Deuteronomy]

To answer your 2nd part about no one keeping the law of Moses, yes that is correct. God already knew that, hence he told them to sacrifice an animal every time they fail to meet it.

He knew that Jesus would be the final sacrifice for sins so he forgave them and declared them justified based on the lamb sacrifice, as Balaam prophesied in numbers. The animal sacrifice in the ot is like a credit card payment.

But the ot Jews was not told about Jesus yet, so all they could do is to believe that the animal sacrifice would work and God saw that as faith. That is also why Balaam told Balak that the only way he would succeed in cursing the Jews will be to bring gentile ladies to seduce the Jews into following other gods and stop sacrificing animals.

It worked and some Jews stopped the animal sacrifice, hence they suffered the wrath of God.

That won’t happen to us now because our righteousness is based on Jesus as our representative cutting the covenant with God and God the father promising his Son that whoever believes in his death burial and resurrection will be permanently justified.

Hi Guojing, using the term, "credit card payment", for God (temporarily) passing over the sins committed by the OT saints (IOW, for His choosing to not judge them for their sins until they could be forgiven in Christ) is an analogy that I've never heard before, but it's a good one

So I think we are basically on the same page amount most of this

I also agree with your earlier point about the OT saints not knowing Jesus, but I think that they did have more of a sense of a Savior or Messiah to come than we often give them credit for, not only from the fairly extensive passages about Him in the Psalms and in Isaiah (and elsewhere), but I believe that the idea was first broached by God before He had driven our first parents out of the Garden .. Genesis 3:15.

~Deut

 

[Guojing]

Hi Guojing, using the term, "credit card payment", for God (temporarily) passing over the sins committed by the OT saints (IOW, for His choosing to not judge them for their sins until they could be forgiven in Christ) is an analogy that I've never heard before, but it's a good one

So I think we are basically on the same page amount most of this

I also agree with your earlier point about the OT saints not knowing Jesus, but I think that they did have more of a sense of a Savior or Messiah to come than we often give them credit for, not only from the fairly extensive passages about Him in the Psalms and in Isaiah (and elsewhere), but I believe that the idea was first broached by God before He had driven our first parents out of the Garden .. Genesis 3:15.

~Deut

I can certainly understand the appeal of the doctrine “ot people were looking forward to the cross” among many Christians.

To me, enough evidence is seen that the Jews did not understand why Jesus had to die for their sins. Not only the 12 not understood it when Jesus told them privately, peter even rebuked Jesus and was so disillusioned that he denied he ever knew Jesus and had to be restored specially by the resurrected Christ. To believe that they understood Isaiah 53 during that time would take a lot of “reading into scripture.”

But if one want to hold on to the belief that ot people were looking forward to the cross, it’s perfectly understandable.

 

[Deuteronomy]

Hello @Guojing, I don't believe they would have understood things as specific as the Cross, but they were expecting a Messiah. In fact, Jews who have not become Christians continue to wait for the arrival of the Christ/the son of David at this very moment in time (just like they did 2,000 years ago).

~Deut

Matthew 22 (Psalm 110:1)​

41 While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them a question:​

42 “What do you think about the Christ, whose son is He?” They said to Him, “The son of David.”​

43 He said to them, “Then how does David in the Spirit call Him ‘Lord,’ saying,​

44 ‘THE LORD [YHWH] SAID TO MY LORD [Adonai],​

“SIT AT MY RIGHT HAND,​

UNTIL I PUT YOUR ENEMIES BENEATH YOUR FEET” ’?​

45 “If David then calls Him ‘Lord,’ how is He his son?”​

​

 

[Guojing]

Hello @Guojing, I don't believe they would have understood things as specific as the Cross, but they were expecting a Messiah. In fact, Jews who have not become Christians continue to wait for the arrival of the Christ/the son of David at this very moment in time (just like they did 2,000 years ago).

~Deut

Matthew 22 (Psalm 110:1)​

41 While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them a question:​

42 “What do you think about the Christ, whose son is He?” They said to Him, “The son of David.”​

43 He said to them, “Then how does David in the Spirit call Him ‘Lord,’ saying,​

44 ‘THE LORD [YHWH] SAID TO MY LORD [Adonai],​

“SIT AT MY RIGHT HAND,​

UNTIL I PUT YOUR ENEMIES BENEATH YOUR FEET” ’?​

45 “If David then calls Him ‘Lord,’ how is He his son?”​

​

Yes I agree, they were expecting a messiah to save them. We are in agreement there.

The gospel of the kingdom was preached to them for all of them to acknowledge Jesus as their messiah.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

You don’t understand the difference between a.noun and a verb?

If you are going to accuse, then point it out.

 

[Guojing]

If you are going to accuse, then point it out.

I was clarifying whether you were addressing my earlier reply to you, or you were branching off into another topic.

 

[Wansvic]

So are we going back through the false teaching that water washes away sins?

You need to learn and sing this hymn and believe it.


What can wash away my sin?
Nothing but the blood of Jesus;
What can make me whole again?
Nothing but the blood of Jesus.

Oh! precious is the flow
That makes me white as snow;
No other fount I know,
Nothing but the blood of Jesus.

For my pardon this I see--
Nothing but the blood of Jesus!
For my cleansing this my plea--
Nothing but the blood of Jesus!

Nothing can my sin erase
Nothing but the blood of Jesus!
Naught of works, 'tis all of grace--
Nothing but the blood of Jesus!

This is all my hope and peace--
Nothing but the blood of Jesus!
This is all my righteousness--
Nothing but the blood of Jesus!

As seen in the Word, Jesus' shed blood was WHAT made it possible for sins to be washed away. And the Word tells us specifically WHEN ones sins are washed away. (See Acts 22:16 and 2:38) It's all about obedience to the Word of God.

 

[Wansvic]

Luke 7:29-30 KJV
And all the people that heard him, and the publicans, justified God, being baptized with the baptism of John. [30] But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

The scripture cited is so powerful as it clearly specifies the people REJECTED the very COUNSEL of God against themselves.

 

[Wansvic]

There were two things going on at circumcision:
1. the physical removal of a foreskin
2. the willing submission to God's bidding

In baptism for remission of sins there are also 2 things going on:
1. a person is being submerged in water
2. the willing submission to God's bidding

It's not the physical action that makes it work, (otherwise a person's sins would go away whenever a friend pushed them into the pool). It is the willing submission to God's bidding that gives it power...but the physical has to be there, too, or else the willing-submission-to-God's-bidding is absent.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

Consider a third thing:

The child did not receive their family name until they were circumcised on the eight day. The number 8 in scripture points to a new beginning.

The antitype of OT circumcision is the NT water baptism. Whose name is applied upon one's obedience to God's NT water baptism command?

 

[Locoponydirtman]

God has 2 things he'd like to do for you.

1. He'd like to remove your sins.
2. He'd like to give you the power to overcome sin (no longer serve it).

He does the first through baptism for remission (washing away) of sins.

He does the second through the outpouring of the Holy Ghost.

One for removing the old. One for bringing in the new.

Thanks be to God in Jesus name.

And continuing after baptism, by taking the Lord's supper. Taking into yourself the body and blood of Christ proclaiming his death until he comes.

 

[Locoponydirtman]

Consider a third thing:

The child did not receive their family name until they were circumcised on the eight day. The number 8 in scripture points to a new beginning.

The antitype of OT circumcision is the NT water baptism. Whose name is applied upon one's obedience to God's NT water baptism command?

Being baptized into the body Christ, into his death and receiving the benefit of his resurrection.

 

[Wansvic]

Being baptized into the body Christ, into his death and receiving the benefit of his resurrection.

In the actual record of individuals submitting to water baptism it is administered in the name of the Lord Jesus. (Acts 8:12-17; 10:44-48, and 19:2-6) Interesting considering all that we do in word and deed is to done in Jesus' name and there is no other name whereby we must be saved.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

God has 2 things he'd like to do for you.

1. He'd like to remove your sins.
2. He'd like to give you the power to overcome sin (no longer serve it).

He does the first through baptism for remission (washing away) of sins.

He does the second through the outpouring of the Holy Ghost.

One for removing the old. One for bringing in the new.

Thanks be to God in Jesus name.

Even the title of your post limits God's power in accomplishing his will. Dan 4:35, And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing; and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou? Baptism does not take away sins. Baptism is a like figure of the death, bureil, and resurrection, and is an answer of a good conscience toward God. It saves (delivers) us from the burden of a bad conscience. 1 Pet 3:21. He gives us the power to overcome sin when he exchanges our stony heart and replaces it with a fleshy heart in the new spiritual birth, Eph 2:5, while we were yet dead, spiritually, in sins, and could not respond to the things of the Spirit 1 Cor 2:14.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

And continuing after baptism, by taking the Lord's supper. Taking into yourself the body and blood of Christ proclaiming his death until he comes.

At the same time that he commanded the emblems of his blood and body, he also commanded the washing of each others feet. Why do most communions leave that commandment out?

 

[kaylagrl]

At the same time that he commanded the emblems of his blood and body, he also commanded the washing of each others feet. Why do most communions leave that commandment out?

Lawsuits...

 

[kaylagrl]

God has 2 things he'd like to do for you.

1. He'd like to remove your sins.
2. He'd like to give you the power to overcome sin (no longer serve it).

He does the first through baptism for remission (washing away) of sins.

He does the second through the outpouring of the Holy Ghost.

One for removing the old. One for bringing in the new.

Thanks be to God in Jesus name.

Wow. Im surprised at the likes on your post!! Do we not know the Word?! The old song goes "What can wash away my sins, nothing but the blood of Jesus"! You cannot remove your sins, only He can. We do have the power to overcome sins already, just not everyone uses it.