Understanding God’s election

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Rufus

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Feb 17, 2024
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Romans 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
You're obviously not familiar with Hebrew parallelism. Verse 18 and 19 are paired up. They go together like hand-in-glove. The two "all" in v. 18 are qualified by the two "many" in v.19. Therefore, logically the "all" in v.18 must understood in the limited sense.
 

Kroogz

Well-known member
Dec 5, 2023
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I can't fill in the blank because neither my pastor (or myself) would never tell anyone that Jesus died for the sins of each and every person in the world.
eh? doesn't the scriptures say exactly that though?

  • Timothy 4:10
    "Who is the Savior of all men, and especially of those who believe"

  • 1 John 2:2
    "And he is the expiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world"

    • 1 John 4:14
      "And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son as the Savior of the world"
    • Revelation 5:9
      "You were slain, and by your blood your ransomed people for God from every tribe and language and people and nation"


I know you noticed this. He didn't give his version of his "gospel." They know it has to be carefully crafted and look very similar to the Bibles Gospel..........or it wouldnt sell to the majority.

@Rufus gospel......Rufus, what must I do to be saved. Absolutely nothing. Wait till the end and you might be elected to the Lake of fire.
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
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You're obviously not familiar with Hebrew parallelism. Verse 18 and 19 are paired up. They go together like hand-in-glove. The two "all" in v. 18 are qualified by the two "many" in v.19. Therefore, logically the "all" in v.18 must understood in the limited sense.
but that word all keeps popping up doesn't it? it cannot be mentioned that many times saying all men to be saved if that is not what it means, we cannot rely on interpretation I mean are you comfortable going before Jesus himself and telling him that he died only for certain people? is his blood not enough? was his sacrifice limited? it is a slap in his face to claim limited salvation because that means his sacrifice was not good enough
 

Rufus

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Feb 17, 2024
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Yes to me it’s a very bizarre view of God that he tells man one thing but it’s really a secret pre planned thing that nothing you do impacts it either way . That he says everyone will be judged by thier words and deeds but that’s wrong apparently . That he says he loves the world and wants all men to come to repentance and be saved but apparently that’s wrong . That he says he died for all mankind’s sin but apparently that’s wrong . That he sent the gospels call promising salvation out from Jerusalem to everyone so they could hear of Jesus and believe and be saved ….but apparently that’s also wrong .


this place is like the twilight zone sometimes to me
What's wrong is your context-free interpretations of those passages.

P.S. "Context-Free is the First Kissin' Cousin' of Free-Will.
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
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I know you noticed this. He didn't give his version of his "gospel." They know it has to be carefully crafted and look very similar to the Bibles Gospel..........or it wouldnt sell to the majority.

@Rufus gospel......Rufus, what must I do to be saved. Absolutely nothing. Wait till the end and you might be elected to the Lake of fire.
yes I did notice I am waiting to see his response for the verses I gave it would have to be pretty carefully avoided to turn the meaning of plain scripture into something else.

What I don't understand is people always tell me I need to post scripture I don't like to use his word just to prove a point but if a point needs to be made and I give more than enough evidence then it is just being purposely ignored or aavoided as I expected what good is using the word of God if no one will recieve it?

There is hidden meaning in parts of the bible but not on this topic it is plain and simple either take him at his word and believe him or try to add or take away and try to sell another gospel.

At least with what I present there are countless verses I could post to show my point but they have to work around the scriptures to prove theirs
 

Rufus

Well-known member
Feb 17, 2024
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I know you noticed this. He didn't give his version of his "gospel." They know it has to be carefully crafted and look very similar to the Bibles Gospel..........or it wouldnt sell to the majority.

@Rufus gospel......Rufus, what must I do to be saved. Absolutely nothing. Wait till the end and you might be elected to the Lake of fire
Fat chance! Only all the first cousins to the first century Pharisees and their man-centered traditions need to worry about their eternal state or destiny.
 
Dec 7, 2024
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Translate: You cannot refute the biblical evidence I provided.
I've noticed you make that accusation against anyone who actually has refuted your error and using Scripture to do so.

Then your pattern then continues as you reiterate your errors while continuing to deny Scripture states what you refuse to accept.

I, too, think you are blessing in that you prove that all true spiritual understanding must come from the Eternal Source.
Thank you. Because it is that Source that allows me and others here to correct your errors and those of others as well.

Though correction refused,as your pattern examples,and those others like you, does not change that commitment to Eisegesis.

I find that is because of a number of reasons.

After awhile it appears as folly to try and reach you and particularly those fixated on hatred for Calvinism and whom they perceive as Calvinists whether they are or not, when it becomes clear the wall of separation between us is only overcome by God's will.
Until that is accomplished through Holy Spirit you and those like you shall insist on promoting your own errant misunderstanding of God's message.

Which you cannot see because you are not able to. And that is because understanding does not arrive as many also insist, by the choice of natural men and women.

Thank you for your time.
 

Rufus

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Feb 17, 2024
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Let’s stick with what it actually says and not add to or take away. The scripture actually states, kings and ALL that are in authority.

Why should we pray for kings and all that are in authority? That we may live peaceable lives.
And WHO for the most part, in Paul's day were these "kings and all that are in authority"?
 

brightfame52

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Nov 21, 2020
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Purely imagination and no back-up in the context. U might be unaware and uable to distinguished of being " many be made righteous" and the " free gift came upon all".
U mean nothing in the context 4 u. Rom 5:18-19 is strictly about the elect, the entire chapter 5 is
 

Rufus

Well-known member
Feb 17, 2024
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I've noticed you make that accusation against anyone who actually has refuted your error and using Scripture to do so.

Then your pattern then continues as you reiterate your errors while continuing to deny Scripture states what you refuse to accept.

Thank you. Because it is that Source that allows me and others here to correct your errors and those of others as well.

Though correction refused,as your pattern examples,and those others like you, does not change that commitment to Eisegesis.

I find that is because of a number of reasons.

After awhile it appears as folly to try and reach you and particularly those fixated on hatred for Calvinism and whom they perceive as Calvinists whether they are or not, when it becomes clear the wall of separation between us is only overcome by God's will.
Until that is accomplished through Holy Spirit you and those like you shall insist on promoting your own errant misunderstanding of God's message.

Which you cannot see because you are not able to. And that is because understanding does not arrive as many also insist, by the choice of natural men and women.

Thank you for your time.
Your lecture which has nothing to do with the answers I sought from a few passages I posted yesterday -- still proving, you have no answers. Too bad in your universe you evidently think bloviating equates to substantive answers.
 

BillyBob

Active member
Dec 20, 2023
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Texas
No, I don't believe God made people simply to go to hell. God is a just God and that is not just.
By proclaiming this, you have placed yourself on a very lofty hill. You are in fact stating what God must or must not do to remain just and fair by your standards.
 

Rufus

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Feb 17, 2024
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You have not advanced in the mind of Christ then. Christ died for each and every sin ever committed...past, present and future.
What you don't understand is GOOD AND EVIL.

You are still stuck in the garden with the serpent.
Why can't you bring yourself to acknowledge the truth that BrightFlame revealed to you: EVERYONE, but Universalists, believes in a limited atonement quantitatively or qualitatively? Most freewillers (save for the Universalists) hold to the latter and, therefore, limit atonement yourselves.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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Why can't you bring yourself to acknowledge the truth that BrightFlame revealed to you: EVERYONE, but Universalists, believes in a limited atonement quantitatively or qualitatively? Most freewillers (save for the Universalists) hold to the latter and, therefore, limit atonement yourselves.
Question, how many times is man appointed to die? Will some die twice? Why or why not?

Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
 

Rufus

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Feb 17, 2024
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Pagans, those without Christ
Or how 'bout this: Gentiles? Paul, as the apostle to the Gentiles, is exhorting Timothy about pagan Gentiles. The Gentile world was much much bigger than the Jewish world; therefore, the vast majority of kings and others in authority from the Gentile nations? Does this sound like a reasonable interpretation to you?
 

Rufus

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Feb 17, 2024
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Question, how many times is man appointed to die? Will some die twice? Why or why not?

Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
Off-topic to the question I asked.