Understanding God’s election

[Blain]

Yeah why ?

because I think that is what you are refering to but there is some things in the scripture where there is no hidden meaning we have to be able to rightfully divide the word and that is something only the spirit can do.

I am sure you know how to become intune with the spirit right? you claim I am using natural logic while you are using the spirit but what your not seeing is that no matter how much you may want the scriptures to say something sometimes it just as it says

A good example of rhema is how in the stroy of moses when God plagued egypt the blood of a lamb was to be put on every door so death would not take them this is a representation of Christs blood saving us from death

however what you are saying not only holds no wight to it because you cannot even provide evidence to back up your claim while I can but your looking for something that isn't there and if you listen to spirit let go of everything you thought you knew then he will reveal the truth only if your willing though if you only see what you believe then the truth will evade you

 

[Rufus]

eh? doesn't the scriptures say exactly that though?

• Timothy 4:10
  "Who is the Savior of all men, and especially of those who believe"
  
  
• 1 John 2:2
  "And he is the expiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world"
  
  
• • 1 John 4:14
    "And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son as the Savior of the world"
  • Revelation 5:9
    "You were slain, and by your blood your ransomed people for God from every tribe and language and people and nation"

Scripture nowhere says that God send his Son into the world to die for each and every man and woman and child in it, which how freewillers understand the atonement -- i.e. unlimited quantitatively while very limited qualitatively.

 

[John146]

Or how 'bout this: Gentiles? Paul, as the apostle to the Gentiles, is exhorting Timothy about pagan Gentiles. The Gentile world was much much bigger than the Jewish world; therefore, the vast majority of kings and others in authority from the Gentile nations? Does this sound like a reasonable interpretation to you?

Agreed, then you would have to assume all Gentile kings and all those in authority are saved, part of the elect.

 

[Rufus]

but that word all keeps popping up doesn't it? it cannot be mentioned that many times saying all men to be saved if that is not what it means, we cannot rely on interpretation I mean are you comfortable going before Jesus himself and telling him that he died only for certain people? is his blood not enough? was his sacrifice limited? it is a slap in his face to claim limited salvation because that means his sacrifice was not good enough

Universal terms pop of very often in scripture and in very many cases, they are NOT used in the distributive sense when understood in their proper immediate context and/or in the larger context of scripture. In the Rom 5 passage, specifically, that I explained and to which you have replied, I showed how the second half of the Hebrew parallel qualifies the first half.

 

[John146]

Off-topic to the question I asked.

just asking again since you evaded to answer earlier

 

[Rufus]

Agreed, then you would have to assume all Gentile kings and all those in authority are saved, part of the elect.

Well...I wouldn't go that far. Nowhere does Paul say that the kings and others in authority are saved. But if you can see how Paul is talking about leaders of Gentile nations, and by extension generally, then we can move on to the next stage of exegesis.

 

[brightfame52]

because I think that is what you are refering to but there is some things in the scripture where there is no hidden meaning we have to be able to rightfully divide the word and that is something only the spirit can do.

I am sure you know how to become intune with the spirit right? you claim I am using natural logic while you are using the spirit but what your not seeing is that no matter how much you may want the scriptures to say something sometimes it just as it says

A good example of rhema is how in the stroy of moses when God plagued egypt the blood of a lamb was to be put on every door so death would not take them this is a representation of Christs blood saving us from death

however what you are saying not only holds no wight to it because you cannot even provide evidence to back up your claim while I can but your looking for something that isn't there and if you listen to spirit let go of everything you thought you knew then he will reveal the truth only if your willing though if you only see what you believe then the truth will evade you

There is no evidence for u. Rom 5 is about the elect, the entire book of Romans is about the elect and their salvation. Any scriptures speaking about Justification is about the elect, Rom 8:33

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

 

[Rufus]

just asking again since you evaded to answer earlier

I didn't see an earlier question from you. But answer my question first.

 

[Blain]

Scripture nowhere says that God send his Son into the world to die for each and every man and woman and child in it, which how freewillers understand the atonement -- i.e. unlimited quantitatively while very limited qualitatively.

It literally does say that did you read what I posted? you would have to make the words mean something else to say otherwise but nowhere in scripture does it say that Christs atonment is limited either.

The very few scriptures that mention anything remotely close to it can be explained but this one alone says it all
1 John 2:2
"And he is the expiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world" I mean it doesn't get any more clear

 

[Cameron143]

Purely imagination and no back-up in the context. U might be unaware and uable to distinguished of being " many be made righteous" and the " free gift came upon all".

What's the free gift that came upon all?

 

[Inquisitor]

"Speculation", you say? Now there something to build a solid theology behind. [Carnal] Speculation is in competition with God's revealed, eternal truth?



It's not a big list, but it does reveal a lot about Judas. The four passages that I'm aware of are: Ps 41:9; 69:25; 109 ff.; Zech 11:12-13.

If you have trouble making sense out out Ps 109, give me a shout and I'll share what I see in the Psalm. The reason I say this is because the first 5 verses of this messianic psalm speak of David's enemies in the plural, e.g. "they" is used several times. But in v.6, David switches gears by talking of one man "opposing him". And of an "accuser [that is to] "stand his right hand" So, this might seem confusing to you at first blush. But we should remember that Peter in Acts 1:20 clearly alludes to v.8 in this Psalm when speaking about Judas. Therefore, unmistakably this is a messianic Psalm. And so for the balance of the Psalm David talks about this one man (presumably the appointed "evil man" in v.6a) and his cursed descendants, all that he owned, etc.

You fail to realize that the revelation of the Christ was the full revelation of God.

In the Old testament if any Jew sinned, that is, transgressed the law then they died.

That was called the "law of sin and of death" by Paul.

Romans 8:2
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.

The Jews when put to the test under the law responded by murdering the author of life.

In the New Testament God Himself paid us a visit.

As a consequence, we see a much higher revelation of God in the New Testament.

Christ arrives and forgives all, heals all who ask, loves all; even the demon possessed.

Jesus' love extended to all, including enemies (Matthew 5:44), reflecting a universal love that mirrors
God's desire for all to be saved (1 Timothy 2:4).

To reject Jesus is the rejection of divine love and a love so great that we cannot comprehend it.

Ultimately, I think we judge ourselves by our response to the invitation that Jesus gave.

God is not partial and never was.

We have a one word vocabulary and that word is love!

 

[Blain]

There is no evidence for u. Rom 5 is about the elect, the entire book of Romans is about the elect and their salvation. Any scriptures speaking about Justification is about the elect, Rom 8:33

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

I agree it is about the elect what I am saying is that the elect is not limited and I have given many verses to show this but you can't choose to believe one part of Gods word and dismiss another because it doesn't fit what you believe that is insulting God's word.

especially adding or taking away from the word Jesus warns about doing that.

 

[Rufus]

It literally does say that did you read what I posted? you would have to make the words mean something else to say otherwise but nowhere in scripture does it say that Christs atonment is limited either.

The very few scriptures that mention anything remotely close to it can be explained but this one alone says it all
1 John 2:2
"And he is the expiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world" I mean it doesn't get any more clear

First, you are assuming that "whole world" should be understood in the distributive sense. And your second error is even more egregious because your interpretation does not fit the context of the passage.

 

[Cranberry]

Your lecture which has nothing to do with the answers I sought from a few passages I posted yesterday -- still proving, you have no answers. Too bad in your universe you evidently think bloviating equates to substantive answers.

Thank you again for proving my latest list to you is correct.

You are unable to accept the things of God,Scriptures,I and others repeatedly share with you so to correct your misunderstanding.

When you attempt and fail in an effort to personally attack me you only reiterate your incapacity to be at peace in Christ.
Your Eisegesis fails God's test.

 

[Inquisitor]

What's the free gift that came upon all?

Jesus Christ was the penultimate gift given to mankind.

 

[Rufus]

You fail to realize that the revelation of the Christ was the full revelation of God.

In the Old testament if any Jew sinned, that is, transgressed the law then they died.

That was called the "law of sin and of death" by Paul.

Romans 8:2
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.

The Jews when put to the test under the law responded by murdering the author of life.

In the New Testament God Himself paid us a visit.

As a consequence, we see a much higher revelation of God in the New Testament.

Christ arrives and forgives all, heals all who ask, loves all; even the demon possessed.

Jesus' love extended to all, including enemies (Matthew 5:44), reflecting a universal love that mirrors
God's desire for all to be saved (1 Timothy 2:4).

To reject Jesus is the rejection of divine love and a love so great that we cannot comprehend it.

Ultimately, I think we judge ourselves by our response to the invitation that Jesus gave.

God is not partial and never was.

We have a one word vocabulary and that word is love!

I have no idea why your posted a totally irrelevant answer to my post to which you responded. And that's OK...I don't want to know...

 

[Rufus]

Thank you again for proving my latest list to you is correct.

You are unable to accept the things of God,Scriptures,I and others repeatedly share with you so to correct your misunderstanding.

When you attempt and fail in an effort to personally attack me you only reiterate your incapacity to be at peace in Christ.
Your Eisegesis fails God's test.

Attack you!? You accused me of "abrogating" God's Word, remember?

Get back to me when you think you have begged, borrow, stole, rented or bought enough backbone to address those few passages about Judas that I posted previously.

 

[Cameron143]

Jesus Christ was the penultimate gift given to mankind.

He didn't say given. He said the free gift came upon all. So that's what I inquired about. Do you know what or who the free gift is that came upon all?

 

[brightfame52]

I agree it is about the elect what I am saying is that the elect is not limited and I have given many verses to show this but you can't choose to believe one part of Gods word and dismiss another because it doesn't fit what you believe that is insulting God's word.

especially adding or taking away from the word Jesus warns about doing that.

The elect is limited to the elect, it is them only whom God Justified. So Rom 5:18

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Thats all the elect of Rom 8:33

 

[Blain]

First, you are assuming that "whole world" should be understood in the distributive sense. And your second error is even more egregious because your interpretation does not fit the context of the passage.

And what would imply that it doesn't mean the whole world? it isn't just that one either would you like me to post even more verses that say all whole world ect.? even the greek which it was written in says this
e Greek word for "world" in John 3:16 is kosmos (κοσμος).

The word kosmos has multiple meanings, including:

• The universe
• The earth
• The people on earth
• • Most people
  • People opposed to God
  • The human system opposed to God's purposes

In John 3:16, the word "world" refers to humans as God's creatures who have fallen into sin. The verse emphasizes the word "world" by repeating it and moving between meanings without explanation.

The word kosmos is also the source of the English words "cosmetology" and "cosmology".

• John 3:16 – “World” Means All of Creation | Whole Faith Living EarthJohn 3:16 - "World" Means All of Creation - Whole Faith Living Earth
  Dec 20, 2017
  
  Whole Faith Living Earth
  
  
  
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• God’s Love in John 3:16 -
  Mar 22, 2011 — Love always has an object. The object here is “the world.” The original Greek word for “world” in John 3:16 is “kosmos...
  but the only way your theology works out is if you change what the scriptures say and you can say it implies something else but you need to prove it