Understanding God’s election

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brightfame52

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rogerg said:
Great point, brightfame52. Interestingly, and in contrast to "beast" representing the unsaved, God also uses "men (man)" spiritually, in certain instances, to represent the elect/saved.
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Yeah like when they've been tamed by regeneration, is that what you mean ?
 
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Kroogz

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rogerg said:
Great point, brightfame52. Interestingly, and in contrast to "beast" representing the unsaved, God also uses "men (man)" spiritually, in certain instances, to represent the elect/saved.
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Just for people reading this thread. You are not changing your mind.

Solomon was "experimenting" with the world. And you sight a verse from a HUMAN viewpoint. Not God's viewpoint.

In the end.......Solomon says "I was an idiot." Don't follow this path. It brings only misery and death.

Solomon's conclusion.....Happiness is found ONLY in God.

Brush up on the book please.
 
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Rufus

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Kroogz said:
Go back then, and read their posts. The ONE point is " Unbelievers can't Choose His Gospel."

The mission and objective is to deter unbelievers of His Gospel.

Sinister for a few, ignorance for many.
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No! The "mission and objective" is to show sinners just how spiritually undone they are -- how weak, impoverished, impotent and helpless they are in order to get them to cry out to God for his tender mercies and compassion. There is a reason why salvation is spoken of in terms of rescuing the powerless! But YOU never needed any stinkin' rescuing by God, did you?
 
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rogerg

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brightfame52 said:
Yeah like when they've been tamed by regeneration, is that what you mean ?
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Yes, that, but also certain specific references to "man" implying saved, the opposite of "beast", as unsaved. For example:

[1Co 15:32 KJV] 32 If after the manner of men I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantageth it me, if the dead rise not? let us eat and drink; for to morrow we die.
 
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rogerg

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Kroogz said:
Just for people reading this thread. You are not changing your mind.

Solomon was "experimenting" with the world. And you sight a verse from a HUMAN viewpoint. Not God's viewpoint.

In the end.......Solomon says "I was an idiot." Don't follow this path. It brings only misery and death.

Solomon's conclusion.....Happiness is found ONLY in God.

Brush up on the book please.
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gobbledygook
 
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Kroogz

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Rufus said:
No! The "mission and objective" is to show sinners just how spiritually undone they are -- how weak, impoverished, impotent and helpless they are in order to get them to cry out to God for his tender mercies and compassion. There is a reason why salvation is spoken of in terms of rescuing the powerless! But YOU never needed any stinkin' rescuing by God, did you?
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Creature focused. Not Creator focused......Sugar coat removed.
 
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Rufus

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Kroogz said:
On the other hand.....You have done some serious studies and that is MUCH appreciated! So it's kinda a catch 22 for me?!
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Yeah...Studier very likely attended school with Kamala Harris and sat in the same class with her when they took Word Salads 101 course.
 
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Kroogz

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Rufus said:
Yeah...Studier very likely attended school with Kamala Harris and sat in the same class with her when they took Word Salads 101 course.
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He might have. But you seem to have helped her get to where she is.
 
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Rufus

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Kroogz said:
Creature focused. Not Creator focused......Sugar coat removed.
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No need to state the obvious. You're entirely focused on Self which is why you love your false version of the gospel and will not be convinced.
 
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rogerg

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Kroogz said:
Yeah. The natural man will say that.
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Wait - aren't you the one who believes that it is within the power of man to truly believe? That is in direct
contravention as to how scripture defines "natural man" in 1 Co 2:14. You should first actually read and understand the scripture you plan to quote BEFORE you quote it.

[1Co 2:14 KJV] 14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.
 
Jimbone

Jimbone

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Rufus said:
Another inane straw man. No one here ever denied that the sons of men don't make choices that align with their nature.
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This is why I can't talk to the CDSC (Calvinist Derangement Syndrome Cult) anymore. It's pointless. They REFUSE to understand what you're saying and they tell you what you believe before they tear down the strawman they just built in front of you. You can talk to them all day long with patients, respect, understanding, and even trying to give a little to help try to show we are not as far apart on belief as they think, but they will shut you down and claim you believe these stupid strawmen they imagine up. I even let it frustrate me at a certain point, but you can not come together with those hell bent on dividing us, they won't allow it. I'll add my 2 cents when I feel led to, but do not waste my time arguing with them anymore. There's just no point and I now see more clearly how bad it dishonors Jesus name to just endlessly bicker with those who refuse to be respectful listen and respond to what's being said.
 
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Rufus

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brightfame52 said:
The drawing denotes two things, #1 its for a select group, the elect, for the word draw helkō is akin to haireō :

  1. to take for oneself, to prefer, choose
  2. to choose by vote, elect to office
The same word used for chosen in 2 Thess 2:13

But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath G138 ➔ from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

So the subjects of the drawing are the ones the Fahter has chosen,

Also helko means to persuade,

To draw, to drag
Meaning: I drag, draw, pull, persuade, unsheathe.

I by my moral, my spiritual, influence will win over to myself the hearts of all, John 12:32. Cf. Meyer on John 6:44;

to persuade is to cause to believe, Faith

The word believe/faith pistis is from the root peithō :

persuade

  1. to persuade, i.e. to induce one by words to believe

So the drawn in both Jn 6:44 and 12:32 are all who are brought to Faith/to believe in Christ, Drawing is the giving of the Gift of Faith by the power of God
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Are you sure about that? "Helko" is never translated "persuade" in the NT. However, some form of the Gr. term "peitho" (Strong's 3982) is found in the NT over 50 times and it is often translated "persuade" or "persuaded". But that type of persuasion is by words; whereas 'helko" when used metaphorically denotes an inward power -- metaph., to draw by inward power, lead, impel. This kind of "persuasion" involves more than the mere outward expression of words. Therefore, 'helko" goes far beyond moral suasion by mere words.
 
Magenta

Magenta

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brightfame52 said:
All men by nature are beast, animals Ecc 3:18

I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts.

But theres hope in Jesus for that to be changed, if we be an elect
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Ecclesiastes 3:18-20 Man has no advantage over the animals.
:)
 
Magenta

Magenta

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Rufus said:
No! The "mission and objective" is to show sinners just how spiritually undone they are -- how weak,
impoverished, impotent and helpless they are in order to get them to cry out to God for his tender
mercies and compassion. There is a reason why salvation is spoken of in terms of rescuing the powerless!
But YOU never needed any stinkin' rescuing by God, did you?
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You won't get the truth out of those who love to misrepresent. Surely this love they have hearkens
back to their total lack of understanding. In their mind, a corrupt tree brings forth good fruit. In their
way of thinking, the stony ground of the unregenerate heart is perfect for the Seed of God's Word to
take root, even though Scripture, even in the Words of Jesus, denies it being so. Over and over again!
 
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Kroogz

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Jimbone said:
They REFUSE to understand what you're saying
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Nope. Being a former calvie/reformed person myself. I REFUSE to believe your nice fluffy 10,000 word essay to just say...." Unbelievers cannot believe His Gospel to them."
 
NOV25

NOV25

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Jimbone said:
This is why I can't talk to the CDSC (Calvinist Derangement Syndrome Cult) anymore. It's pointless. They REFUSE to understand what you're saying and they tell you what you believe before they tear down the strawman they just built in front of you. You can talk to them all day long with patients, respect, understanding, and even trying to give a little to help try to show we are not as far apart on belief as they think, but they will shut you down and claim you believe these stupid strawmen they imagine up. I even let it frustrate me at a certain point, but you can not come together with those hell bent on dividing us, they won't allow it. I'll add my 2 cents when I feel led to, but do not waste my time arguing with them anymore. There's just no point and I now see more clearly how bad it dishonors Jesus name to just endlessly bicker with those who refuse to be respectful listen and respond to what's being said.
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With all due patients, respect and understanding, Calvinists are deranged cultists-which is to say they serve a different God-but our beliefs are not that far apart...

You're silly. lol
 
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