Universal Reconciliation

2knowhim · Mar 1, 2012

I would rather die on the side of hope, love , and Reconciliation and be wrong, than to live a life of this kind of man's judgment, "one's going to hell, or that one is going to burn for all eternity". You slander the Name of God by teaching things you know not of. When referring to the temple being cleaned out by The Lord, you have no idea what your looking at do you? All you see is Anger, and punishment, but we see a whole different picture by The Spirit. It is with great purpose, and very intentional, for those who have eyes to see.

You have God being one of The worst tyrants of All of History, Hitler could only destroy the body, but you have God tormenting for all eternity. You don't know the same God I know, He is Corrective in His judgments, Merciful to our Ignorance, And purposeful for everything He does, And All that comes from a Nature of Love. For God is Love.

God will be All in All, you can be sure of it.
In Christ shall All be made Alive.

Rev 5:13 And every creature which is in Heaven, and in the earth, and underneath the earth, and the things that are on the sea, and the things in all of them, I heard saying: To Him sitting on the throne, and to the Lamb be the blessing and the honor and the glory and the might forever and ever.

Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Israel · Mar 1, 2012

greatblue said:

Just wanted to point out that universal reconciliation is indeed a concept birthed in man's imagination. It profits man to believe such an idea. It is not within the character of God, whether it be our image of Him through the early OT scriptures or our view of Him through and as Jesus Christ. It is true that God does not change...but our image and understanding of Him most certainly does...from first acceptance till the day we die.

Christ will judge all. We have seen Him as God's mercy; none of us have seen Him as God's judge, but we should understand that His clearing of the temple is purposed to show us that He does indeed have righteous anger to unleash on the darkness. Hebrews 10:31 people.

This will be universal judgement, not reconciliation. The "Father forgive them..." Jesus is the sacrificial lamb offered to those who believe on Him as the way, the truth, and the life. He did not return to visit with and show Himself to nonbelievers, as they would obviously have believed. The line was drawn in the sand...God drew the line...ears for hearing...

The offer of reconciliation is made at the cross. That is the love of God. People who suggest universal reconciliation pander an idea that there is a love greater than Christ's sacrifice.

What is at the heart of a universalist claim? They assert a subversive idea that if God does not reconcile all, then He is not a truly loving God. To be sure, if you have claimed God will reconcile all, and He does not, that is something you charged God with. There has to be a "Woe" in there somewhere.

What profit can I obtain here with my message? For everything that I gained, I gave it all up for Christ. He judged no man on earth. There is no evil in what I say, therefore you cannot find a "woe". All men are chastised unto death for the purpose of correction.

greatblue · Mar 1, 2012

2knowhim said:

God is love. Now. Merciful to our ignorance. Now. Can you not see that YOU just admitted what I alluded to? You think that God tormenting for all eternity makes Him a tyrant. I say it makes Him God. I say I only believe Him, know Him, because He enabled me to. He gets all glory, not me. If in the end Jesus tells me, "I never knew you," I will understand Him. He warned me. He is God. I'll then go to eternal torment. I understand that NOW. I love Him and follow Him...but am I not Judas too? Universalist's trade Christ's pouring out of God's love in favor of some higher love beyond the time Christ preached in. So, the kingdom of heaven is not at hand? Is the whole thing a wash? What will you say to God if He tells you He isn't going to universally reconcile? Honestly, will you say?

His clearing of the temple was nothing. Nothing. How many times had he destroyed us previously? What restraint He showed in the temple, but it wasn't the time for judgement, it was the time for mercy.

I apologize for my comment on capitalization. It was a slight and I knew it and I still typed it. I'll take a "Woe" for that alone. I do not mean to attack you, but I certainly attack the universalist idea. Christ is the Alpha and the Omega. His way is narrow, but universalism wants to make it broad.

2knowhim · Mar 1, 2012

greatblue said:

It's ok, I take no offence at your comments to me. I know you can't see what I see, and I know you don't want to. Yes, the Way is very narrow in finding Life in this present evil age, But, His Salvation is Very Broad, in fact to the Uttermost. I am very confident in what He has shown me. Don't you think we used to believe the same things you do now? We did, for a long time I believe exactly what you believe, Until He begin to put what I believed to the test, and It did not stand, and you will be put through it too eventually, hopefully on this side Jordan.

Blessings

eternally-gratefull · Mar 2, 2012

2knowhim said:

It is broad??

Matthew 7:13 - 14
“Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

Scripture does not support your theory.

The second death is final. Everyone will die the first death (except those risen by Christ who are alive at the time of the ressurection) but the second death is eternal.

2knowhim · Mar 2, 2012

eternally-gratefull said:

You misrepresented what I have said, I said to find Life in this present evil age is in deed very narrow.
But The work of Christ on the Cross is very broad, in other words, it reaches far beyond this physical realm,..... but to The Uttermost.

eternally-gratefull · Mar 2, 2012

2knowhim said:

That does not negate the fact that only a few people will find life, in this age or any other age. and that most people will find death. Of which there is no hope of life. This is what Christ said. i gthink we should take him at his word!

2knowhim · Mar 2, 2012

#84 - THE PURPOSE OF EVIL – GUY MARKS

“Evil begins with God and is a necessary part of His plan. It is the method He uses to accomplish His purpose. Usually when man works evil he sins because His motives are wrong, but this is not true of God for His motive is always to produce good. God uses the forces of evil to bring about good.

The teaching that sin and death are eternal is a travesty of God’s character, for it presents God standing by in complacency while Satan introduces an evil that all but destroys the human race.

The purpose of evil is to establish a background for a display of God’s love and grace which we could never know apart from the experience of sin. Evil is a necessary part of God’s purpose to mold us and to fashion us in the image of His beloved Son. Evil is a problem only to those who fail to see God’s purpose in it and who refuse to believe that God will bring blessings to all mankind through His dealings with evil and sin. The forces of evil cannot continue beyond the circumference of God’s purpose in it. God always has control over the forces of evil and evil never has any power apart from the authority of God. God has complete control over Satan and all of his activities.

The teaching that sin is to continue eternally blinds our minds to an understanding of the purpose of evil. Those who have made the greatest progress in seeking out the revelation of the cross no longer consider evil to be a problem, for the cross of Christ will turn all the evil of sin into infinite good. God will do infinitely more than repudiate sin and abolish death. He will not simply restore the human race to the status of Adam in the garden.

Even if one person were to suffer endlessly because of Adam’s sin, the justice of God would be defeated. So the grace differs from Adam’s offence because it will accomplish far more than Adam lost. Then too that which resulted from Adam’s offense is temporary but the results of grace will be permanent. Grace more than meets the need for it exceeds the need by far. It is enough and to spare for it is a superabundance. And this proves conclusively that the ruin caused by Adam’s sin is overcome and more by the superabundance of grace.

Before the eons, before there was any evil, before there was any sin, God designated all the events that would make sure that not one would be trapped in the forces of evil, but that all would be delivered from death and sin. God prearranged it all, from the fall of man to the glory of the consummation. Not one thing was left to chance. All was founded on His wisdom.

To some evil will never cease, or so they believe. God is never able, or at least He never tries to bring about so much good that all evil will vanish. They try to justify God with the false teaching that man is a free moral agent. But the only freedom of man that the scriptures present is the freedom that comes through the deliverance which is in Christ Jesus.”

2knowhim · Mar 3, 2012

#25 - A SPIRITUAL AUTOBIOGRAPHY – WILLIAM BARCLAY

“I am a convinced universalist. I believe that in the end all men will be gathered into the love of God.

The Greek word for punishment is kolasis, which was not originally an ethical word at all. It originally meant the pruning of trees to make them grow better. There is no instance in Greek secular literature where kolasis does not mean remedial punishment. It is a simple fact that in Greek kolasis always means remedial punishment. God's punishment is always for man's cure." (unquote)
This is his comment regarding Matthew 25:46.

#26 - THE GOSPEL OF OUR SALVATION – ADLAI LOUDY

“The crowning glory of the ‘good news’ or evangel of the untraceable riches of Christ which Paul was granted the grace to bring to the ‘gentiles’ or nations, is the revelation that He will reconcile all to God.

What a marvelous outcome of God’s purpose! What a wonderful Christ Who can accomplish such a complete and glorious reconciliation! All creatures, whether those on the earth or those in the heavens, reconciled in perfect peace to the great love of God through the Son of His love.

More of these untraceable honors and glories of Christ which Paul was granted the grace to reveal, could be pointed out with delight, but these will suffice to increase our faith, enrich our joy and brighten our expectation ‘in Him in Whom our lot was cast also,’ Christ Jesus our Lord, Life, and Head!”

peacefulbeliever · Mar 3, 2012

2knowhim said:

Universal as in pertaining to everyone - Only those who believe in Jesus Christ will be saved.
Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him (Jesus Christ) seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them. Heb. 7:25
For God so loved the would that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.. . . .He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. John 3:16,18
There will be consequences for those who do not believe in Jesus Christ - and it will be everlasting punishment but to those who believe eternal life.

kolasis does not just mean a pruning - and we have to take the definition of a word along with the context to get the true meaning. The contrast is set right in the verse: And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal. Matt. 25:46

2knowhim · Mar 3, 2012

peacefulbeliever said:

1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

made Alive:

dzo-op-oy-eh'-o
From the same as G2226 and G4160; to (re-) vitalize (literally or figuratively): - make alive, give life, quicken.

Why is it so hard to believe that All will be Quickened, made alive, in Christ?
You have no problem believing All in Adam Die right?

And Why is it so hard to believe that where sin did abound, Grace does much more Abound?

And why is it so hard to believe, that since Adam brought sin upon All men unto death,
that Christ brought Salvation and Life unto All men?

Is sin greater than Grace?
Is the First Adam more powerful, than The Last Adam?

peacefulbeliever · Mar 3, 2012

2knowhim said:

1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

made Alive:

dzo-op-oy-eh'-o
From the same as G2226 and G4160; to (re-) vitalize (literally or figuratively): - make alive, give life, quicken.

Why is it so hard to believe that All will be Quickened, made alive, in Christ?
You have no problem believing All in Adam Die right?

And Why is it so hard to believe that where sin did abound, Grace does much more Abound?

And why is it so hard to believe, that since Adam brought sin upon All men unto death,
that Christ brought Salvation and Life unto All men?

Is sin greater than Grace?
Is the First Adam more powerful, than The Last Adam?

Yes, all will be made alive - in the resurrection. Not saved - All who believe in Christ will be saved.

mori · Mar 3, 2012

2knowhim said:

Some think it slights God's dignity if he's too generous. Nothing new at all. In the parable of the prodigal son, Jesus spoke about the elder brother's behavior. In the parable of the 11th hour workers, those who'd arrived earlier. It's a strange thing - God is supposed to be generous beyond reasonability, sacrificing himself, but there's a definite point beyond which he's not supposed to go.

2knowhim · Mar 3, 2012

peacefulbeliever said:

This does not mean Resurrection, this means quickened the same word that is used,
for us who is Quickened by the Holy Spirit.

How else could All confess Jesus Christ as Lord, without The Holy Spirit?

Php 2:9 wherefore, also, God did highly exalt him, and gave to him a name that is above every name,
Php 2:10 that in the name of Jesus every knee may bow--of heavenlies, and earthlies, and what are under the earth--
Php 2:11 and every tongue may confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

1Co 12:3 wherefore, I give you to understand that no one, in the Spirit of God speaking, saith Jesus is anathema, and no one is able to say Jesus is Lord, except in the Holy Spirit.

2knowhim · Mar 3, 2012

mori said:

Yes, I've thought alot about The Prodical son here lately.

What of those that Labored in the heat for so long, and then at the last minute
God's Great Mercy Prevails, how many will be offended as the elder son in that day?

Blessings

enochson · Mar 3, 2012

2knowhim said:

With permission from, and from the Library of Rodger Tutt.

These are snippets from such.

#94 - MUST AION MEAN ETERNAL? – PHILIP SCRANTON

“There are many texts in which aion and aionios cannot bear the meaning of eternity. And there are no texts in which the meaning of a limited period of time does not make reasonable sense. Our great loss is that when we ascribe the meaning of eternity to these words, we obliterate from view God’s purpose of the eons. Further, the character of God is slandered, making Him the inflictor of incomprehensible woe.

It does not say that “all in Christ shall be made alive.” It says, “in Christ shall all be made alive.” The word for made alive means to be made immortal. After the great white throne, the unbelieving will participate in the second death – the lake of fire. Finally, at the consummation, when death is abolished, all will be made alive in Christ.”

God is working all things after the counsel of His will and according to His perfect schedule. But the improper translation of “for the ages of the ages” ignores the purpose and climax of history.

The holies of the holies (plural/plural) were the two inner confines of the tabernacle. (1Kings 8:6 literal translation instead of the most holy place.) They were more holy than the outer court and the camp and all the places outside the camp. In like manner, the ages of the ages are the two greatest ages of history because of what will transpire during their time.
It does not cast the smallest shadow on the brilliance of God’s glory to say that glory be attributed to Him during the climatic eons when His purpose will be realized by all and His glory seen more clearly than ever before.”

#95 - TARDY OF HEART TO BELIEVE ALL – F. NEIL POHORLAK

Do you find your heart tardy to believe that God will have all mankind to be saved?” 1Tim. 2:4

“Those who would not yield an inch from the position that all have sinned means all, do not hesitate to rob God of His all in all shall be justified, all shall be reconciled, all shall be vivified, that God may be All in all.

This is God’s grand goal: all saved, all justified, all reconciled, all vivified, that God may be All in all. This goal will see fruition when the eons have run their course. Do not confuse God’s goal with His process.”

this is pretty good but it's out of order. ALL RECONCILED (HORSE) ALL SAVED (THE CART) For it's is wriiten "salvation is of the Lord" For if one would read the book it's say's IN ALL. And all means the whole of everything.

enochson · Mar 3, 2012

2knowhim said:

Only the ones that speak hate in the church on sundays it's are way or the highway.

2knowhim · Mar 3, 2012

enochson said:

LoL, I like this, and I see what your saying Yes I agree.

It's good to see you back, hope you stick around for a while.

Blessings

enochson · Mar 3, 2012

2knowhim said:

1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

made Alive:

dzo-op-oy-eh'-o
From the same as G2226 and G4160; to (re-) vitalize (literally or figuratively): - make alive, give life, quicken.

Why is it so hard to believe that All will be Quickened, made alive, in Christ?
You have no problem believing All in Adam Die right?

And Why is it so hard to believe that where sin did abound, Grace does much more Abound?

And why is it so hard to believe, that since Adam brought sin upon All men unto death,
that Christ brought Salvation and Life unto All men?

Is sin greater than Grace?
Is the First Adam more powerful, than The Last Adam?

what funny is what choice or free will did one have in the frist adam? Then it only goes to say what choice or free will did anybody have in the second?

enochson · Mar 3, 2012

2knowhim said:

Hello didn't know I was missed thank you. I would say god bless that would be a statement of disbielf FOR GOD HAS BLESS YOU AND IS BLESSING YOU AND WILL ALLWAYS BLESS YOU FOR THAT IS HIS NATURE.

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