Verse for "once saved always saved"?

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Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
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#41
Thanks for the kind response. I am new to this website and am trying to ask an honest question I have wrestled with.

John 10:28-30: Again - powerful verses I agree - and we dare not (and sure don't want to) minimize them: And anyone who wants can go to forums or websites and find Arminian and Calvinistic interpretations of them. But as you said "the exact words I am looking for cannot be found" -- one's interpretation of Scripture can lead a person there: I am not trying to argue against "eternal security" as such, but just trying to find if anyone has a verse that states it as such.
 
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Gr8grace

Guest
#42
Gal. 3:3 -- Powerful verse - 100% true: but it doesn't state that "once saved, always saved". I wonder if you quoting this means that you feel that anyone not believing "once saved always saved" believes that it is works that keeps a person saved?
It can be no other way.

If we believe that salvation can be lost. who failed if salvation was actually lost? God Or the man?

The man of course. And how was it lost? Something the man did. So it was his works that kept him saved or unsaved him.
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
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#43
Ah, I like your thoughts here:

(1) It is very fair to ask someone to show a verse saying salvation can be lost: someone start another thread: But by this post I was not trying to prove armininianism. Nor was I trying to change people's minds about eternal security or not!

(2) The question you ask about Ephesians 2:8-10 is a very fair and a good one: It would be informative and hopefully inspirational to discuss it with you, but again that is not the topic of the thread. But by asking the question itself, it is clear that the verse does not state "once saved, always saved"
 

santuzza

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2013
1,609
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#44
Romans 8:38-39

38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Are you going to find the actual phrase "once saved, always saved" in the Bible? No. But these verses clearly demonstrate that once we are in Christ, we cannot be separated from God's love.
 
Sep 4, 2012
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#45
Try this...

1 Corinthians 3:15 KJVS
[15] If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
I think that implies that not all of the person's works are burned up. Something will be left to show real faith. AS for those whose works burn up entirely, the unprofitable servant comes to mind.
 
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Gr8grace

Guest
#46
Ah, I like your thoughts here:

(1) It is very fair to ask someone to show a verse saying salvation can be lost: someone start another thread: But by this post I was not trying to prove armininianism. Nor was I trying to change people's minds about eternal security or not!

(2) The question you ask about Ephesians 2:8-10 is a very fair and a good one: It would be informative and hopefully inspirational to discuss it with you, but again that is not the topic of the thread. But by asking the question itself, it is clear that the verse does not state "once saved, always saved"
You have 20 years of Greek? I am an amateur in the Greek, but do know the periphrastic perfect. Do you?

The Expanded Translation reads:By the grace have you been saved completely with the result that you are in a state of salvation which persists through present time.” Present time in this instance is always the time at which the reader reads his statement. The security of the believer could not have been expressed in stronger terms. (Wuest, Kenneth - The Practical Use of the Greek New Testament - Part II: The Eloquence of Greek Tenses and Moods - Bibliotheca Sacra: A quarterly published by Dallas Theological Seminary. Volume 117. Issue 466. Page 142) (Theological Journal Subscription info) (List of 22 journals - 500 yrs of articles searchable by topic or verse! Incredible Online Resource!)

It is clear you are not going to get the exact phrase you are looking for. But this is so close it hurts.
 
Sep 4, 2012
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#47
It can be no other way.

If we believe that salvation can be lost. who failed if salvation was actually lost? God Or the man?

The man of course. And how was it lost? Something the man did. So it was his works that kept him saved or unsaved him.
Which is what James was talking about. Faith without works is belief alone which is dead.
 

Zmouth

Senior Member
Nov 21, 2012
3,358
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#48
Despite years of Bible study and talking to many people, I have not yet had anyone show me a verse that clearly says "once saved, always saved?" Is there such a verse in the Bible, or is the doctrine of eternal security a conclusion from study of Scriptural themes and principles?
There is a verse in the Old Testament and a verse in the New Testament.
 
Sep 4, 2012
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#49
Both. It is clearly presented in definite terms and it is clearly presented in doctrinal principles.

I wish we could hear Paul say Eph 2:8. That would cast doubt out.

And Logic based on His Character and nature. If we could lose salvation......the consequence is the Eternal lake of Fire. Our Father would CLEARLY tell His Children EXACTLY where we would lose salvation if we could.
HE has clearly told us. Faith without works is dead. Mere mental assent deludes, but doesn't save.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
12,451
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#50
Thanks for the kind response. I am new to this website and am trying to ask an honest question I have wrestled with.

John 10:28-30: Again - powerful verses I agree - and we dare not (and sure don't want to) minimize them: And anyone who wants can go to forums or websites and find Arminian and Calvinistic interpretations of them. But as you said "the exact words I am looking for cannot be found" -- one's interpretation of Scripture can lead a person there: I am not trying to argue against "eternal security" as such, but just trying to find if anyone has a verse that states it as such.
The precise question to ask is am I saved? The answer to that question will determine the OP question. If I am saved by grace and that of God who shall separate me from God?

It cannot be I since I surrendered all to Him when I sought His forgiveness and He bestowed eternal life upon me. I have a gift so precious that I would never give it up and He has declared He will not allow anything to separate me from Him. All of heaven rejoiced at my salvation.

Do you know if you died right this minute that you would be in the presence of Jesus Christ? If not you won't.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
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Gr8grace

Guest
#51
HE has clearly told us. Faith without works is dead. Mere mental assent deludes, but doesn't save.
Faith without works is dead.....the believer has no service and is useless in Glorifying Christ.

doesn't say~~

faith with out works is dead and I will send my child to the eternal lake of Fire forever and ever.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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#52
The work of the Father is to believe in Christ.

John 6:29 (NASB)
[SUP]29 [/SUP] Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent."

We are to walk in the grace of Christ as we did when we responded to the message of Christ - we will manifest His life in us as He is the one giving us both the will and the ability to go good works.

Colossians 2:6-7 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Therefore as you have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him,

[SUP]7 [/SUP] having been firmly rooted and now being built up in Him and established in your faith, just as you were instructed, and overflowing with gratitude.

We cannot do the works of God through the flesh which is self-effort.


Galatians 3:3 (NASB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?
 
Dec 9, 2011
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#53
I think that implies that not all of the person's works are burned up. Something will be left to show real faith. AS for those whose works burn up entirely, the unprofitable servant comes to mind.
If all their works burn up,they themselves will be saved.
 
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Gr8grace

Guest
#54
HE has clearly told us. Faith without works is dead. Mere mental assent deludes, but doesn't save.
James is talking about service and Glorifying Christ in time by the believer.

But I do believe mental assent deludes. Because this snares the majority.

These folks do wonderful things, try to walk like Christ, try to obey as much as they can, and really look up to Christ.........but they have never trusted in Him alone for their salvation.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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#55
Faith without works is dead.....the believer has no service and is useless in Glorifying Christ.

doesn't say~~

faith with out works is dead and I will send my child to the eternal lake of Fire forever and ever.
Amen......some people try to use this out of context and say you can lose salvation because of these verses in James which does not conflict with Paul at all.

Faith without works is dead is just talking about corresponding action to what you believe. James in context said this so that people would help out their brother with food and clothing.

James used Abraham and Rahab as examples of having a work to correspond with their faith. In both instances it was a one time event. Abraham offered up Isaac - one time. Rahab hid the spies - one time.

The day we hear the message of Christ - we believe and with we confess Christ - one time....and we are sealed with the Holy Spirit.

Ephesians 1:13 (NASB)

[SUP]13 [/SUP] In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,


The message of the gospel of the grace of Christ is scandalous and offensive to those of us that think we need to "do" something to earn or to "maintain" eternal salvation which is in Christ's finished work which is accessed by grace through faith only.
 

Dan58

Senior Member
Nov 13, 2013
1,847
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#56
As long as the possibility of "falling away" exist, the notion of osas is not absolute. Its not that Christ will ever forsake us, but anyone can lose faith and forsake him (Hebrews 6:4-6). Salvation is conditional, not automatic. There's a big "if" to nearly all of God's promises. "Whosoever believeth" is a condition, stop believing and eternal life goes on the back burner. A Christian must keep the faith and finish the race, there's no verse or promise that I know of which says there's no danger in becoming a hypocrite. To the contrary, there's a slew of warnings stating that salvation can be lost (Ephesians 5:5, 1 Corinthians 6:9, Galatians 5:21)... jmo
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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#57
I've yet to see the verse that states God takes away salvation.
Well, here are a few (there are many more)...

Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
Heb 6:7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
Heb 6:8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

1Co 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

So, Paul thought that he could become a castaway. The NKJV has it this way...

1Co 9:27 But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified.

Disqualified from eternal life.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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#58
James is talking about service and Glorifying Christ in time by the believer.

But I do believe mental assent deludes. Because this snares the majority.

These folks do wonderful things, try to walk like Christ, try to obey as much as they can, and really look up to Christ.........but they have never trusted in Him alone for their salvation.
HUH?

(ten characters)
 
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Gr8grace

Guest
#59
HUH?

(ten characters)
Matt 7~~22“Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ 23“And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’

Originally Posted by Gr8grace

James is talking about service and Glorifying Christ in time by the believer.

But I do believe mental assent deludes. Because this snares the majority.

These folks do wonderful things, try to walk like Christ, try to obey as much as they can, and really look up to Christ.........but they have never trusted in Him alone for their salvation.
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
2,305
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#60
I would prefer to stick to the Biblical text as my original question asked: If we go to statements like: "if you really know the Jesus of the Bible . . ." then we can wind up at lots of different places . . .