Verse for "once saved always saved"?

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AllenW

Senior Member
Apr 20, 2016
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#81
Ah, this was more what I expected when I started this post: some powerful Scripture verses!

Comments:
(1) Please let's not minimize these promises to those who are believing in Jesus Christ.
(2) I am not going to try to give a Biblical response to all these verses: as I said earlier - this has been done before many times and with a little searching you can find answers on both sides of the issue for all these verses.
(3) So who is right? "eternal security" or not? That is not my point here or my question. My question is: does a verse clearly say "once saved, always saved'?
(4) I don't see that any of the above verses say that once a person is saved he can never lose his salvation:
Examples: John 10:27-30 - It is the "sheep" that he gives eternal life to. Who are the sheep? those who believed at a point in time in the past? or those who are at that moment believing? What is eternal life? if it is defined as "living forever" then I believe unbelievers would also have "eternal life" (if you believe hell is forever)
I Cor. 1:6-8; Phil 2:6; and others - The issue on some of these verses is to who is the promise given?
Heb. 10: 14 - so is a blatant unbelieving sinner (who previously believed) "being sanctified by God"? I think that is at least a question open to discussion - so I don't think this verse clearly says that all who were saved cannot be lost.
For many (all!) of the verses I see beautiful truths, but I don't see a clear "once saved always saved" statement:
Example: Titus 3:4-7 - beautiful powerful truths, but I don't see anything even close to "once a person is saved, he is not able to lose his salvation:

Psalm 23:6; ..."and I will dwell in the House of the Lord forever".
Question; How did David know that he would dwell in the House of the Lord forever?
OSAS
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#82
What do you mean: "land mines ahead"? :eek:
Well, Tandy/alex/Danish/etc., it's not like you haven't played similar games on here in your previous personas. I'd think you know what you're doing.
 
Sep 16, 2014
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#83
Again HeRoseFromTheDead you are wrong. Its not by our Works that we have Faith, its because we HAVE Faith that we do works.

Again you are teaching a working for Salvation. If you believe you have to work for your Salvation and have to work to keep your Salvation you will never have peace in your life with God. You will always worry if you have done enough works.

This is also the position of the Catholics. They believe we can never know IF they have Salvation until after they die. That is so sad.
 

Scriptureplz

Senior Member
May 11, 2016
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#84
Basically we either trust Gods Word or we don't.

John 3:36[SUP] - [/SUP]He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

To "believe" means to put full confidence and trust in Christ alone for salvation.
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
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#85
Amen: The one who is believing in the Son has everlasting life, and the one who is not believing in the Son does not have life and the wrath of God abides on him.
 

Scriptureplz

Senior Member
May 11, 2016
464
12
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#86
Amen: The one who is believing in the Son has everlasting life, and the one who is not believing in the Son does not have life and the wrath of God abides on him.
It says "believeth". That means if you have believed you have everlasting life. Sounds like you are trying to prove eternal security false. In doing so you call God a liar. I suggest you stop and get your bible and pray that He would show you the truth. Then read the gospel of John and then the first 8 chapters of Romans.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
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#87
You do not get saved over night and conformed into the full image of Christ, so that you can pretty much walk into eternity. I don't think so.

Getting saved is a process. It's the dismantling of the natural mind, so that Christ may grow within the soul.

"For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers." Rom 8:29


Dangerously wrong. Salvation is an event a one time event. Sanctification is a process.

God already sees us seated together with Christ.

Eph 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
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#88
If we just use one of the many verses that teach eternal security, lets just stick to Eph 2:8 for now. A few things have been brought up about that specific verse already. And we may glean some wisdom from your 20 years of knowledge of the Greek and your teaching it.

the periphrastic Perfect of "having been saved" teaches eternal security dogmatically.

Having been saved in the past, with the result that it continues on forever, at any present time in the believers life they remain saved.

Can you show us how this is wrong?

A quick search shows many people are quoting Wuest on this verse: That's OK, but I asked if a verse clearly stated "once saved", not if a man's interpretation of the Greek tenses clearly states it.

The KJV says "by grace you are saved by faith"
The Greek says "gar charite este sesomenoi dia tes pisteos"

Either could be interpreted to mean "once saved always saved" but I don't see the text clearly stating such.
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
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#89
(Reply to question about Psalm 23:6 - AllenW)

I believe it is the same way that I can be assured of my salvation: because he knew that he was and was continuing to put his faith in Jesus. (of course this is OT - so he is looking forward to the cross whereas we look back).

You are right that David seems assured that he will be "saved forever": but the text does not say this assurance is based on a past time event when he put his faith in Christ.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
13,134
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#90
(Reply to question about Psalm 23:6 - AllenW)

I believe it is the same way that I can be assured of my salvation: because he knew that he was and was continuing to put his faith in Jesus. (of course this is OT - so he is looking forward to the cross whereas we look back).

You are right that David seems assured that he will be "saved forever": but the text does not say this assurance is based on a past time event when he put his faith in Christ.
Salvation being a gift removes any faith on our part. It is the faith of Jesus Christ that saves us. God gives us the ability to believe His word whereby we can receive His gift of grace.

You must cease from thinking that you have any part in salvation. You can only receive it by grace. God must do everything. God illuminates the heart and draws souls to Christ. None seek after Christ save they be drawn. Even then many more turn away. John 3:19-21

2 Cor 5:21 Christ's righteousness is imputed not earned.

Salvation is Jesus not me.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
2,754
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#91
You say "believeth means if you have believed". It is a present tense in Greek (which in general means ongoing action in the present) which cannot be twisted (my interpretation at least) to "dogmatically" mean a past time event.

I am not so much trying to prove eternal security false. I am wanting someone to prove it to me by a clear Scripture verse: or at least admit (like a few on this post have done) that it is a doctrine that comes from the interpretation of Scripture.

I am OK with saying a doctrine comes from "the interpretation of Scripture" -- that doesn't mean it is a false doctrine: it just means we should be able to discuss it without resorting to arguments like "in doing so you call God a liar".

Such an argument begins with the premise that my interpretation is correct and is God's view - and hence anyone who disagrees with me is making God a liar.

If I took all of the doctrines I was taught as a child till now (and accused everyone disagreeing with me as calling God a liar) as automatically correct, I would be in sad shape.

So I am trying to examine the things that I believe openly and honestly. I expect those believing in "once saved always saved" to also be willing to examine their beliefs openly and honestly. Resorting to "stop and get your bible and pray that He would show you the truth" type of arguments doesn't seem fair and seems like a "cop-out"!


It says "believeth". That means if you have believed you have everlasting life. Sounds like you are trying to prove eternal security false. In doing so you call God a liar. I suggest you stop and get your bible and pray that He would show you the truth. Then read the gospel of John and then the first 8 chapters of Romans.
 

Rondonmon

Senior Member
May 13, 2016
186
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#92
Despite years of Bible study and talking to many people, I have not yet had anyone show me a verse that clearly says "once saved, always saved?" Is there such a verse in the Bible, or is the doctrine of eternal security a conclusion from study of Scriptural themes and principles?
If you are ahead in a football game (Bama 27-Tennessee 14 but the game ends 28-27 Tennessee) and the team behind wins was the team ahead "Ever Winning" ? You see I think this is the Baptists point, even though I do not agree with it, I get the gist of their point, if you wind up in hell, you were never "Saved from Hell" so to speak.
 

PurerInHeart

Senior Member
Apr 12, 2016
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#93
I've yet to see the verse that states God takes away salvation.

Have you read Matthew 25:30? In another verse Jesus says, "Well done good and faithful servant, enter...." But in this verse the wicked and lazy servant will be put out where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth (hell). These are both servants of Christ- one did well, the other did not.

The bible says if it's hard for a Christian to be saved, then what hope is there for those who are in the world? One moment, I'll try to find it and post it before my time runs out...

Here it is... 1 Peter 4:18

"If it's hard for the righteous to be saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?"

So the righteous are the saved, yet some of them will lose their salvation.
 
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fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
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#94
Jude 1:24 A verse for "Once Saved , always saved"

24 Now unto him that is able to keep you* from falling, and to present [you] faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

God my Saviour is able to keep me from falling, that's being saved now, and to present me faultless before His presence then that's an exceeding joy of once saved, always saved.
 

RobbyEarl

Senior Member
Feb 7, 2016
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#95
Jude 1:24 A verse for "Once Saved , always saved"

24 Now unto him that is able to keep you* from falling, and to present [you] faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

God my Saviour is able to keep me from falling, that's being saved now, and to present me faultless before His presence then that's an exceeding joy of once saved, always saved.
Okay guess I'm sucker enough to join in on this. Once saved always saved hmm, even if I rob the bank an cheat on my wife and snort drugs. Well I'm saved and have no account for my actions. When I was five the preacher baptized me in water. So I'm good smoking with Snoop Dog. What's the chizzle.
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
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#96
Okay guess I'm sucker enough to join in on this. Once saved always saved hmm, even if I rob the bank an cheat on my wife and snort drugs. Well I'm saved and have no account for my actions. When I was five the preacher baptized me in water. So I'm good smoking with Snoop Dog. What's the chizzle.
God forbid! Did the scriptures told you that? That "if" situation leads you nowhere but as for me I'll STICK to scriptures on what it says not on cigarettes...

Gen 44: 7 And they said unto him, Wherefore saith my lord these words? God forbid that thy servants should do according to this thing:

Joshua 22: 29 God forbid that we should rebel against the LORD, and turn this day from following the LORD, to build an altar for burnt offerings, for meat offerings, or for sacrifices, beside the altar of the LORD our God that is before his tabernacle.

Joshua 24:16 And the people answered and said, God forbid that we should forsake the LORD, to serve other gods;

Romans 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?


 

RobbyEarl

Senior Member
Feb 7, 2016
1,456
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#97
God forbid! Did the scriptures told you that? That "if" situation leads you nowhere but as for me I'll STICK to scriptures on what it says not on cigarettes...

Gen 44: 7 And they said unto him, Wherefore saith my lord these words? God forbid that thy servants should do according to this thing:

Joshua 22: 29God forbid that we should rebel against the LORD, and turn this day from following the LORD, to build an altar for burnt offerings, for meat offerings, or for sacrifices, beside the altar of the LORD our God that is before his tabernacle.

Joshua 24:16 And the people answered and said, God forbid that we should forsake the LORD, to serve other gods;

Romans 6:2God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?


Do you have a will? I'm not talking about when you die will. If so then you will sin and if that sin is not forgiven and is allowed to proceed the result of sin is death. We are in the struggle between flesh and spirit. The spirit has been redeemed and our mind are being renewed by the word of God, but our flesh longs for the sin. Yeah I know you have never heard of such but it's in your bible. Jesus said when you see these things come to pass look up for your redemption draweth nigh, What is he talking about, I thought that if I shakes the preachers hand and got dunked in water I was otay. Why did Jesus say that?
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
2,136
206
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#98
Okay guess I'm sucker enough to join in on this. Once saved always saved hmm, even if I rob the bank an cheat on my wife and snort drugs. Well I'm saved and have no account for my actions. When I was five the preacher baptized me in water. So I'm good smoking with Snoop Dog. What's the chizzle.
Hi Rob,

Are you trying to rob my exceeding joy for believing Jude 1:24? Can you give reasons why? Well then give your best shot!:cool:
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
2,136
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#99
Do you have a will? I'm not talking about when you die will. If so then you will sin and if that sin is not forgiven and is allowed to proceed the result of sin is death. We are in the struggle between flesh and spirit. The spirit has been redeemed and our mind are being renewed by the word of God, but our flesh longs for the sin. Yeah I know you have never heard of such but it's in your bible. Jesus said when you see these things come to pass look up for your redemption draweth nigh, What is he talking about, I thought that if I shakes the preachers hand and got dunked in water I was otay. Why did Jesus say that?
Rob,

You are just trying to kid yourself. Seems you puffeth up. Trying to belittle? Alright that's you> HAHAHA! Ye do err not knowing scriptures.

Mark 12;24 And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God?
 

RobbyEarl

Senior Member
Feb 7, 2016
1,456
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Hi Rob,

Are you trying to rob my exceeding joy for believing Jude 1:24? Can you give reasons why? Well then give your best shot!:cool:
Good pun, I like it. To him who is able, never questioned that nor did even enter my mind. But do you have a will. God will not override your will. If he does then we are robots and God is not righteous. God will honor your will. Do i need to say more? I can if need be.