Verse for "once saved always saved"?
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This may be your opinion but the Bible speaks of believing without action as a reality.
Simon Magus
Judas Iscariot
The many disciples who turned back and no longer followed Him (John 6:66)
All are examples of belief but not the proper action.
Faith alone groups cannot have it both ways. If salvation is based solely on believing Jesus as the means to salvation then demanding action as a litmus test as proof of salvation is wrong. If faith alone saves then anything past that faith is a work and not needed.
This is the logical hole that this reasoning leads to.
The three examples above had to believe plus be willing to be led....a work. There are many secular things and causes that I believe in but are certainly not led by.
This is why there are no verses that state "faith alone" except James 2:24.
Simon Magus
Judas Iscariot
The many disciples who turned back and no longer followed Him (John 6:66)
All are examples of belief but not the proper action.
Faith alone groups cannot have it both ways. If salvation is based solely on believing Jesus as the means to salvation then demanding action as a litmus test as proof of salvation is wrong. If faith alone saves then anything past that faith is a work and not needed.
This is the logical hole that this reasoning leads to.
The three examples above had to believe plus be willing to be led....a work. There are many secular things and causes that I believe in but are certainly not led by.
This is why there are no verses that state "faith alone" except James 2:24.
E
Sorry, But Judas was classified as one who did not believe in John 6. And he was even called a devil.
There is no such things as faith which does not work, there is belief (mental agreement) but mental agreem,envy is not enough to get people to work. Faith must come first. Thats why James said one who claims to have faith, but has zero his faith is dead (lifeless)
a faith that has life works.
The mistake of the workers with the passage in James is to make that faith real faith, the faith that is condemned, dead. The purpose of James here is that kind of faith does not save, thus, and literally; "Can that faith save him?" James 2:14.
That faith is not the faith that shows forth true conversion. It is literally "Can this kind of faith save?" (the faith that only talks, but has no evidence). It is not a text that is against Sola Fide, as some misuse it so, out of its context, and that is a fact.
That faith is not the faith that shows forth true conversion. It is literally "Can this kind of faith save?" (the faith that only talks, but has no evidence). It is not a text that is against Sola Fide, as some misuse it so, out of its context, and that is a fact.
How someone can be arminian and believe in eternal security at the same time. They want the freedom to make a decision for Christ but they dont want the freedom to deny Christ.
To answer the question: Here is a verse proving eternal security:
John 6:37-40
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”
That should settle it. Everyone that the Father gives to the Son, will come to the Son and those who do come to the Son will never be cast out and Jesus will not lose any of them, but will raise them up on the last day.
Crystal clear.
There are other crystal clear passages elsewhere in the Scriptures but this is the words of Jesus Himself, but lets do one from the pauline epistles:
Philippians 1:6
And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.
Few more that I wont post but you can look them up for yourself:
John 10:28-29, Romans 8:38-39, Ephesians 4:30, Ephesians 1:13, Jude 1:24.
As for the warning passages about apostasy, the quick answer to them is in:
1 John 2:19
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us.
This means that the truly regenerated and the truly born again will not be apostate.
I hope this helps. If you got any questions feel free to ask or PM me. Im not a pastor nor do I hold any authority within the Church, but I have taught a couple people some of the basics of the faith, which I consider this subject to be.
To answer the question: Here is a verse proving eternal security:
John 6:37-40
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”
That should settle it. Everyone that the Father gives to the Son, will come to the Son and those who do come to the Son will never be cast out and Jesus will not lose any of them, but will raise them up on the last day.
Crystal clear.
There are other crystal clear passages elsewhere in the Scriptures but this is the words of Jesus Himself, but lets do one from the pauline epistles:
Philippians 1:6
And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.
Few more that I wont post but you can look them up for yourself:
John 10:28-29, Romans 8:38-39, Ephesians 4:30, Ephesians 1:13, Jude 1:24.
As for the warning passages about apostasy, the quick answer to them is in:
1 John 2:19
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us.
This means that the truly regenerated and the truly born again will not be apostate.
I hope this helps. If you got any questions feel free to ask or PM me. Im not a pastor nor do I hold any authority within the Church, but I have taught a couple people some of the basics of the faith, which I consider this subject to be.
If salvation is made reversible then does condemnation become reversible? Eternal salvation and eternal condemnation are for all practical purposes the reverse of each other. So one might reason that if salvation is changeable then so is condemnation.
God does not change but man is variable in all his ways. James calls them double minded. James 1:8
For the cause of Christ
Roger
God does not change but man is variable in all his ways. James calls them double minded. James 1:8
For the cause of Christ
Roger
It depends what you mean by belief. John 2.23-25 illustrates.
No because true faith IN CHRIST results in God acting to save. Therefore a changed life MUST follow. The work is the result of salvation not the cause of it
Are you equating this with saving faith which involves trusting God to act?.
But many which indicate that this is meant e.g. Romans 3.22-5.19.
we are saved by faith (in Christ) alone but the faith that saves is not alone - because Christ ensures it is not.
No because true faith IN CHRIST results in God acting to save. Therefore a changed life MUST follow. The work is the result of salvation not the cause of it
Are you equating this with saving faith which involves trusting God to act?.
But many which indicate that this is meant e.g. Romans 3.22-5.19.
we are saved by faith (in Christ) alone but the faith that saves is not alone - because Christ ensures it is not.
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E
I Agree, I think we are talking about two different Gods.
One God says we can be obedient enough to save ourself and sent his son to die in vein,
The other God says we are all sinners and fall short of his glory, thus can never be obedient enough to pay for sin, so he sent his son to do what we could not do. And wants us to humble ourselves and recieve this gift of eternal life.
One God says we can be obedient enough to save ourself and sent his son to die in vein,
The other God says we are all sinners and fall short of his glory, thus can never be obedient enough to pay for sin, so he sent his son to do what we could not do. And wants us to humble ourselves and recieve this gift of eternal life.
John 17:2,3[SUP]2 [/SUP]As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
[TABLE="class: passage-cols"]
[TR]
[TD="class: passage-col col-xs-12 first last"]
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
I think this definition of eternal life give by the apostle John should enter into some of the discussions here. Eternal life is about a relationship (knowing) with God
[TABLE="class: passage-cols"]
[TR]
[TD="class: passage-col col-xs-12 first last"]
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
I think this definition of eternal life give by the apostle John should enter into some of the discussions here. Eternal life is about a relationship (knowing) with God