Verse for "once saved always saved"?

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FlyingDove

Senior Member
Dec 27, 2017
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If you will look at my thread "Partakers of the Holy Ghost" you'll see once saved always saved is not true.

God's Gift Of Everlasting Life Thru Jesus Christ

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but ""have everlasting life""
(NOTE: Have < Present Tense)

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son ""hath everlasting life""
(NOTE: Hath < Present Tense > Already done)

John 5:24 “Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that heareth my word & believeth on him that sent me, ""hath everlasting life"" and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
(NOTE: Hath < Present Tense > Already done)

Romans 8:33-39
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord
John 10:28 ""I give unto them eternal life""; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.”

AND MY FAVORITE VERSE ON THE SUBJECT:
1 John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; """""that ye may know that ye have eternal life"""""
("THAT YOU" ""MAY KNOW"" """THAT YOU""" """"HAVE"""" < RIGHT NOW > ETERNAL LIFE)
 
Mar 14, 2011
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If you will look at my thread "Partakers of the Holy Ghost" you'll see once saved always saved is not true.
If you read the word of God. You would see that eternal security and eternal life (Call it OSAS or whatever you want to call it) is true
 

Bladerunner

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2016
3,064
45
48
If you will look at my thread "Partakers of the Holy Ghost" you'll see once saved always saved is not true.
Fortunately you are wrong there. If by token one appears and says they are a Christian and then later change say to Homosexuality,,,,They were never saved...



John 10:27-30.."But you do not believe (My Father's works) because you are not of My sheep. My sheep hear My voice and I know them, and they follow Me, and I give unto them eternal life, and they shall never perish, and none shall pluck them from My hand. My Father who gave them to Me is greater than all, and no one IS ABLE to pluck them out of the Father's hand. I and my Father are one"
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
2,201
202
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God's Gift Of Everlasting Life Thru Jesus Christ

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but ""have everlasting life""
(NOTE: Have < Present Tense)

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son ""hath everlasting life""
(NOTE: Hath < Present Tense > Already done)

John 5:24 “Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that heareth my word & believeth on him that sent me, ""hath everlasting life"" and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
(NOTE: Hath < Present Tense > Already done)

Romans 8:33-39
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord
John 10:28 ""I give unto them eternal life""; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.”

AND MY FAVORITE VERSE ON THE SUBJECT:
1 John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; """""that ye may know that ye have eternal life"""""
("THAT YOU" ""MAY KNOW"" """THAT YOU""" """"HAVE"""" < RIGHT NOW > ETERNAL LIFE)
The Greek present tense means ongoing continual action in present time. You say several times the present tense means "already done" -- not sure what you mean? In John 3:16, John 3:36, and John 5:24, and the others as well say the one who is believing has eternal life - yes and amen!!!!!!! Hallelujah, praise the Lord! The believer right now has eternal life 100% without reservation!

But eternal security (OSAS) says this person has eternal life tomorrow or anytime in the future as a guarantee. None of the verses say that you are guaranteed eternal life tomorrow.

They say the one believing has eternal life. And the one believing tomorrow has eternal life , and so the next day, and the next day -- now that is real security! As I lean on/ believe/ need / depend on/ walk in/ dwell in/ Christ - I know I have eternal life. That is what the Bible says - and that is enough for me. My security rests on my faith in Jesus Christ, not on some past decision/happening/conversion experience. As important and powerful and great as the conversion experience of mine was, that is not the basis of my having eternal life today. I have eternal life today because God's grace is working in my heart and I am believing in Him. He is the one who is holding me securely in His hand today!
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
2,201
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Fortunately you are wrong there. If by token one appears and says they are a Christian and then later change say to Homosexuality,,,,They were never saved...


Huh? Verse for that?

You mean that if I say I am a Christian and have had a real experience with God - and then I do some deed that is Biblically and morally wrong (like homosexuality) that you will judge me and say I was never a Christian to start with.

Now maybe you mean if a person ongoingly lives in sin (or homosexuality, etc.) that this proves that they were never born again to start with.

That sounds to me like judging me by my works - and if I don't keep up good works to your standard (or God's standard?) then I was never really saved to start with.

If what you are saying is how I viewed security, I would be very insecure! I would be very worried that my works would not match up!
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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If you read the word of God. You would see that eternal security and eternal life (Call it OSAS or whatever you want to call it) is true
Some call it the "Preservation of the Saints."

Psalm 37:28 - For the Lord loves justice, And does not forsake His saints; They are preserved forever, But the descendants of the wicked shall be cut off.

Jude 1:1 - 1 Jude, a bondservant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, To those who are called, sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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Some call it the "Preservation of the Saints."

Psalm 37:28 - For the Lord loves justice, And does not forsake His saints; They are preserved forever, But the descendants of the wicked shall be cut off.

Jude 1:1 - 1 Jude, a bondservant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, To those who are called, sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ.
It is so sad people take their eyes of christ to put it on self and think they have to maintain salvation.

If paul could not make it by his works, I have no hope!how could I live up to that standard, let alone Christ’s?
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
12,183
798
113
Some call it the "Preservation of the Saints."

Psalm 37:28 - For the Lord loves justice, And does not forsake His saints; They are preserved forever, But the descendants of the wicked shall be cut off.

Jude 1:1 - 1 Jude, a bondservant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, To those who are called, sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ.
Well I guess this makes me a Calvinist.

At least a one pointer.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

UnderGrace

Senior Member
May 8, 2016
3,739
508
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In Calvinism it is the Perserverance of the saints.

Altogether a different thing...so then I think you may not be after all. :p

Well I guess this makes me a Calvinist.

At least a one pointer.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

Iconoclast

Senior Member
May 27, 2017
198
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1689 confession of faith;
[h=2]Chapter 17: Of The Perseverance of the Saints[/h][FONT=&quot]1._____ Those whom God hath accepted in the beloved, effectually called and sanctified by his Spirit, and given the precious faith of his elect unto, can neither totally nor finally fall from the state of grace, but shall certainly persevere therein to the end, and be eternally saved, seeing the gifts and callings of God are without repentance, whence he still begets and nourisheth in them faith, repentance, love, joy, hope, and all the graces of the Spirit unto immortality; and though many storms and floods arise and beat against them, yet they shall never be able to take them off that foundation and rock which by faith they are fastened upon; notwithstanding, through unbelief and the temptations of Satan, the sensible sight of the light and love of God may for a time be clouded and obscured from them, yet he is still the same, and they shall be sure to be kept by the power of God unto salvation, where they shall enjoy their purchased possession, they being engraven upon the palm of his hands, and their names having been written in the book of life from all eternity.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]( [/FONT]John 10:28, 29; [FONT=&quot][/FONT]Philippians 1:6; [FONT=&quot][/FONT]2 Timothy 2:19; [FONT=&quot][/FONT]1 John 2:19; [FONT=&quot][/FONT]Psalms 89:31, 32; [FONT=&quot][/FONT]1 Corinthians 11:32; [FONT=&quot][/FONT]Malachi 3:6[FONT=&quot] )[/FONT][FONT=&quot]2._____ This perseverance of the saints depends not upon their own free will, but upon the immutability of the decree of election, flowing from the free and unchangeable love of God the Father, upon the efficacy of the merit and intercession of Jesus Christ and union with him, the oath of God, the abiding of his Spirit, and the seed of God within them, and the nature of the covenant of grace; from all which ariseth also the certainty and infallibility thereof.
( Romans 8:30 Romans 9:11, 16; Romans 5:9, 10; John 14:19; Hebrews 6:17, 18; 1 John 3:9; Jeremiah 32:40 )[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]3._____ And though they may, through the temptation of Satan and of the world, the prevalency of corruption remaining in them, and the neglect of means of their preservation, fall into grievous sins, and for a time continue therein, whereby they incur God's displeasure and grieve his Holy Spirit, come to have their graces and comforts impaired, have their hearts hardened, and their consciences wounded, hurt and scandalize others, and bring temporal judgments upon themselves, yet shall they renew their repentance and be preserved through faith in Christ Jesus to the end.
( Matthew 26:70, 72, 74; Isaiah 64:5, 9; Ephesians 4:30; Psalms 51:10, 12; Psalms 32:3, 4; 2 Samuel 12:14; Luke 22:32, 61, 62 )[/FONT]
 

Metternich

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2018
210
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Eternal security may not be true.
2 Pet 2:20
[SUP]20 [/SUP]For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overpowered, the last state has become worse for them than the first. [SUP]21 [/SUP]For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. [SUP]22 [/SUP]It has happened to them according to the true proverb, The dog turns back to his own vomit, and the sow is washed only to wallow in the mire.
Catholic Biblical Association (Great Britain). (1994). The Holy Bible: Revised Standard Version, Catholic edition (2 Pe 2:20–22). New York: National Council of Churches of Christ in the USA.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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Eternal security may not be true.
2 Pet 2:20
[SUP]20 [/SUP]For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overpowered, the last state has become worse for them than the first. [SUP]21 [/SUP]For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. [SUP]22 [/SUP]It has happened to them according to the true proverb, The dog turns back to his own vomit, and the sow is washed only to wallow in the mire.
Catholic Biblical Association (Great Britain). (1994). The Holy Bible: Revised Standard Version, Catholic edition (2 Pe 2:20–22). New York: National Council of Churches of Christ in the USA.
Those who are truly born of God have received a new nature, a divine nature, and they have new and different appetites and desires. They have been transformed from pigs and dogs into sheep. The change is more than just cosmetic, as in 2 Peter 2:20. *These cleaned up on the outside dogs and pigs were never sheep.

Compare 2 Peter 1:4 - “partakers of the divine nature,” having escaped the corruption - Strongs #5356 that is in the world through lust with 2 Peter 2:20 - with they escaped the pollutions - Strongs #3356 (different Greek word) of the worldthrough the knowledge of the Lordand Saviour Jesus Christ, yet they are again entangled therein, and overcome. *Notice that 2 Peter 2:20 did not mention them being "partakers of the divine nature.

Corruption (Strong's #5356) (to shrivel or wither, spoil, ruin, deprave, corrupt, defile, to destroy by means of course , to spoil as does milk). Corruption - describes dyecomposition or rotting of an organism and the accompanying stench. The utter depravity of the fallen flesh and the resultant moral decomposition of the world opposed to God is driven by it sinful lusts or evil desires. Internal corruption.

Pollutions/Defilements (Strongs #3393) ("pollutions", "filthy things", "contaminations", "world's filth") describes the state of being tainted or stained by evil and refers to impurity, impure, tainted, defilement, foulness or pollution. Pollutions/Defilement refers to what is on the outside (2 Peter 2:20). But genuine believers have escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust (2 Peter 1:4).

Corruption is deeper than pollutions/defilements on the outside: it is decay on the inside.

Having the knowledge of Jesus Christ does not save a person if there is no heart submission to that knowledge. The latter end is worse than the beginning for these men because rejecting this knowledge will make them more accountable at the judgment.
 

Metternich

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2018
210
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It does not say they were partakers in the Divine nature but I an having trouble understanding how they could escape the defilements of the world without being truly saved by Jesus Christ.
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
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It does not say they were partakers in the Divine nature but I an having trouble understanding how they could escape the defilements of the world without being truly saved by Jesus Christ.
I also have trouble seeing how they could have "escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ" without being truly saved. After all the word "Saviour" is right there in the text.

But it may not be possible or even necessary to try to prove "backsliding" in this text.

But if one comes to the text with the doctrine of OSAS, then one has no alternative but to interpret it as meaning the person was not truly saved.

I come back again to the opening question of this OP - Is "once saved always saved" actually stated in Scripture, or is it a doctrine that comes from the overall tone and feel of the Bible?
 

Sagart

Senior Member
May 7, 2017
313
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If you read the word of God. You would see that eternal security and eternal life (Call it OSAS or whatever you want to call it) is true
For the first 1,500 years of the Church, millions upon millions of Christians read the Bible, and there is not so much as a hint in any documents from that period—and we have hundreds of thousands of them—that anyone thought that they saw the doctrine of eternal security anywhere in the Bible. Since then, the very large majority of Christians have not thought that they saw the doctrine of eternal security anywhere in the Bible—but hundreds of millions of them have clearly seen the doctrine of conditional security clearly taught in the Bible. This is especially true of Christians who read and study the Bible in the languages in which God chose to give it to us.


Heb. 6:4. For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit,
5. and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
6. and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.
7. For ground that drinks the rain which often falls on it and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God;
8. but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed, and it ends up being burned.
9. But, beloved, we are convinced of better things concerning you, and things that accompany salvation, though we are speaking in this way. (NASB, 1995)


Up until the 16[SUP]th[/SUP] century, this passage was universally interpreted as teaching that a Christian could lose his salvation, and the large majority of Bible scholars today still hold to that position. Indeed, this passage of Scripture gives us the most detailed description of what it means to be saved that we find anywhere in the Bible, and the end of these saved persons who subsequently fall away from the Christian faith is eternal damnation in the fires of hell. This was also the doctrine of our earliest Baptist forefathers before some Baptists heard a brand new doctrine that had been recently conceived by some men in Europe, and spread this new doctrine among their Baptist brothers causing it to take over like a firestorm.

The author of the Epistle to the Hebrews wrote his Epistle using the terminology and phraseology of the very early Church. Therefore, in order to accurately interpret the Epistle to the Hebrews, it is essential to have a solid background in the writings of the very early Church and the terminology and phraseology that they used.

The phrase in verse 4, “those who have once been enlightened,” is a reference to water baptism. Indeed, Justin Martyr (died in 165 A.D.) wrote that the term “enlightenment” was used as a synonym for water baptism of converts to Christianity and he uses the term “the enlightened one” for a person who has been baptized. And the Peshitta, an ancient Syriac translation of the Greek New Testament, renders (when translated into English) the phrase in verse 4, “who have gone down into baptism.”

The phrase in verse 4, “have tasted of the heavenly gift,” was variously interpreted during the first 1500 years, but it was ALWAYS interpreted as describing a born-again Christian. Some, for example, saw it to be a reference to the Eucharist; others saw it to be a reference to the teaching of Christ in John 6:31-58. Still others saw it to be a reference to the forgiveness of sins; others saw it to be a reference to the blessings conferred upon the Christian believer.

The phrase in verse 4, “and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit,” is an obvious reference to receiving the Holy Spirit, something that, in the New Testament, happens EXCLUSIVELY to those who have been saved.

The phrase in verse 5, “and have tasted the good word of God,” is a clear reference to the Christian’s experience of hearing the word of God preached and taught and the consequential experience of it in his life as a believer.

The phrase in verse 5, “and the powers of the age to come,” is a reference to the miracles that were performed by the Apostles and other Christians as a foreshadowing of the kingdom to come, and to the other blessings that Christians experience now in part but shall experience in their fullness in the future kingdom.

The phrase in verse 6, “and then have fallen away,” can be properly interpreted only to be speaking of falling from grace and the Christian faith, something that can NOT happen until AFTER a person is saved.

The phrases in verse 6, “it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame,” tell us of the absolutely horrendous consequence of a Christian falling from grace, making the death of Christ on the cross for his sins to be of no effect. This passage expressly speaks of a person who has heard the Gospel, believed it, was saved and baptized, repented of his sins, and enjoyed the blessing of being a born-again Christian—but who subsequently chose to reject Christ and return to his sins. And the fate of such a person could not possibly be any worse—it is “impossible to renew them again to repentance.” Most obviously it is not impossible to renew an unsaved person to repentance if they have repented but not been born again and then fall back into sin. Therefore, the person spoken of has necessarily been born again but has fallen away from the Christian faith. And the born-again Christian who, of his own free will, chooses to reject the Christ who redeemed him is beyond redemption and damned to the fires of hell for eternity.

Verses 7 & 8 are an analogy used to support the author’s statements. Just as the ground which once brought forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled received a blessing from God, and the ground that now yields thorns and thistles is worthless and ends up being burned, so the Christian which once brought forth good fruit unto God but who now brings forth bad fruit ends up being burned in the fires of hell.

Verse 9 tells us that the author has been warning his Christian readers about things that do not accompany salvation, things that happen to Christians who fall away from the faith. Nonetheless, he is reassuring them that that he does not expect them to fall away, as some others had done, but is convinced of better things concerning them, and things that, in their case, accompany salvation, even though he felt that he needed to warn them of the horrendous consequences of apostasy from the Christian faith.


Because of the severity of the Greek word translated “impossible” in verse 6, some very early Christians rejected the Epistle to the Hebrews as not being a part of the New Testament Canon, but its place in the New Testament Canon is now well established and its warning is stern.

Christians who fight tooth and nail to detract from the warning of this passage shall have the blood upon their hands of those who lose their salvation because they were told the warning did not apply to them and they got careless as a result.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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For the first 1,500 years of the Church, millions upon millions of Christians read the Bible, and there is not so much as a hint in any documents from that period—and we have hundreds of thousands of them—that anyone thought that they saw the doctrine of eternal security anywhere in the Bible. Since then, the very large majority of Christians have not thought that they saw the doctrine of eternal security anywhere in the Bible—but hundreds of millions of them have clearly seen the doctrine of conditional security clearly taught in the Bible. This is especially true of Christians who read and study the Bible in the languages in which God chose to give it to us.


Heb. 6:4. For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit,
5. and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
6. and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.
7. For ground that drinks the rain which often falls on it and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God;
8. but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed, and it ends up being burned.
9. But, beloved, we are convinced of better things concerning you, and things that accompany salvation, though we are speaking in this way. (NASB, 1995)


Up until the 16[SUP]th[/SUP] century, this passage was universally interpreted as teaching that a Christian could lose his salvation, and the large majority of Bible scholars today still hold to that position. Indeed, this passage of Scripture gives us the most detailed description of what it means to be saved that we find anywhere in the Bible, and the end of these saved persons who subsequently fall away from the Christian faith is eternal damnation in the fires of hell. This was also the doctrine of our earliest Baptist forefathers before some Baptists heard a brand new doctrine that had been recently conceived by some men in Europe, and spread this new doctrine among their Baptist brothers causing it to take over like a firestorm.

The author of the Epistle to the Hebrews wrote his Epistle using the terminology and phraseology of the very early Church. Therefore, in order to accurately interpret the Epistle to the Hebrews, it is essential to have a solid background in the writings of the very early Church and the terminology and phraseology that they used.

The phrase in verse 4, “those who have once been enlightened,” is a reference to water baptism. Indeed, Justin Martyr (died in 165 A.D.) wrote that the term “enlightenment” was used as a synonym for water baptism of converts to Christianity and he uses the term “the enlightened one” for a person who has been baptized. And the Peshitta, an ancient Syriac translation of the Greek New Testament, renders (when translated into English) the phrase in verse 4, “who have gone down into baptism.”

The phrase in verse 4, “have tasted of the heavenly gift,” was variously interpreted during the first 1500 years, but it was ALWAYS interpreted as describing a born-again Christian. Some, for example, saw it to be a reference to the Eucharist; others saw it to be a reference to the teaching of Christ in John 6:31-58. Still others saw it to be a reference to the forgiveness of sins; others saw it to be a reference to the blessings conferred upon the Christian believer.

The phrase in verse 4, “and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit,” is an obvious reference to receiving the Holy Spirit, something that, in the New Testament, happens EXCLUSIVELY to those who have been saved.

The phrase in verse 5, “and have tasted the good word of God,” is a clear reference to the Christian’s experience of hearing the word of God preached and taught and the consequential experience of it in his life as a believer.

The phrase in verse 5, “and the powers of the age to come,” is a reference to the miracles that were performed by the Apostles and other Christians as a foreshadowing of the kingdom to come, and to the other blessings that Christians experience now in part but shall experience in their fullness in the future kingdom.

The phrase in verse 6, “and then have fallen away,” can be properly interpreted only to be speaking of falling from grace and the Christian faith, something that can NOT happen until AFTER a person is saved.

The phrases in verse 6, “it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame,” tell us of the absolutely horrendous consequence of a Christian falling from grace, making the death of Christ on the cross for his sins to be of no effect. This passage expressly speaks of a person who has heard the Gospel, believed it, was saved and baptized, repented of his sins, and enjoyed the blessing of being a born-again Christian—but who subsequently chose to reject Christ and return to his sins. And the fate of such a person could not possibly be any worse—it is “impossible to renew them again to repentance.” Most obviously it is not impossible to renew an unsaved person to repentance if they have repented but not been born again and then fall back into sin. Therefore, the person spoken of has necessarily been born again but has fallen away from the Christian faith. And the born-again Christian who, of his own free will, chooses to reject the Christ who redeemed him is beyond redemption and damned to the fires of hell for eternity.

Verses 7 & 8 are an analogy used to support the author’s statements. Just as the ground which once brought forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled received a blessing from God, and the ground that now yields thorns and thistles is worthless and ends up being burned, so the Christian which once brought forth good fruit unto God but who now brings forth bad fruit ends up being burned in the fires of hell.

Verse 9 tells us that the author has been warning his Christian readers about things that do not accompany salvation, things that happen to Christians who fall away from the faith. Nonetheless, he is reassuring them that that he does not expect them to fall away, as some others had done, but is convinced of better things concerning them, and things that, in their case, accompany salvation, even though he felt that he needed to warn them of the horrendous consequences of apostasy from the Christian faith.


Because of the severity of the Greek word translated “impossible” in verse 6, some very early Christians rejected the Epistle to the Hebrews as not being a part of the New Testament Canon, but its place in the New Testament Canon is now well established and its warning is stern.

Christians who fight tooth and nail to detract from the warning of this passage shall have the blood upon their hands of those who lose their salvation because they were told the warning did not apply to them and they got careless as a result.
Funny, How in the bibe, New Testament to be exacty. Eternal security is all over it.

Stop listening to men, and listen to God. Scripture is our only guide,. The church was ruled by Rome for centuries., They reject eternal security and replace it with a paganized form of Christianity. So you would not expect to find eternal security in historical (outside the Bible) books, because the Roman church torched all books or writings they deemed as heresy.


But hey, If you want to continue trying to save yourself. And listen to history written by men, and not the word of God inspired by God himself. Feel free.

 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
4,886
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For the first 1,500 years of the Church, millions upon millions of Christians read the Bible, and there is not so much as a hint in any documents from that period—and we have hundreds of thousands of them—that anyone thought that they saw the doctrine of eternal security anywhere in the Bible. Since then, the very large majority of Christians have not thought that they saw the doctrine of eternal security anywhere in the Bible—but hundreds of millions of them have clearly seen the doctrine of conditional security clearly taught in the Bible. This is especially true of Christians who read and study the Bible in the languages in which God chose to give it to us.


Heb. 6:4. For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit,
5. and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
6. and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.
7. For ground that drinks the rain which often falls on it and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God;
8. but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed, and it ends up being burned.
9. But, beloved, we are convinced of better things concerning you, and things that accompany salvation, though we are speaking in this way. (NASB, 1995)


Up until the 16[SUP]th[/SUP] century, this passage was universally interpreted as teaching that a Christian could lose his salvation, and the large majority of Bible scholars today still hold to that position. Indeed, this passage of Scripture gives us the most detailed description of what it means to be saved that we find anywhere in the Bible, and the end of these saved persons who subsequently fall away from the Christian faith is eternal damnation in the fires of hell. This was also the doctrine of our earliest Baptist forefathers before some Baptists heard a brand new doctrine that had been recently conceived by some men in Europe, and spread this new doctrine among their Baptist brothers causing it to take over like a firestorm.

The author of the Epistle to the Hebrews wrote his Epistle using the terminology and phraseology of the very early Church. Therefore, in order to accurately interpret the Epistle to the Hebrews, it is essential to have a solid background in the writings of the very early Church and the terminology and phraseology that they used.

The phrase in verse 4, “those who have once been enlightened,” is a reference to water baptism. Indeed, Justin Martyr (died in 165 A.D.) wrote that the term “enlightenment” was used as a synonym for water baptism of converts to Christianity and he uses the term “the enlightened one” for a person who has been baptized. And the Peshitta, an ancient Syriac translation of the Greek New Testament, renders (when translated into English) the phrase in verse 4, “who have gone down into baptism.”

The phrase in verse 4, “have tasted of the heavenly gift,” was variously interpreted during the first 1500 years, but it was ALWAYS interpreted as describing a born-again Christian. Some, for example, saw it to be a reference to the Eucharist; others saw it to be a reference to the teaching of Christ in John 6:31-58. Still others saw it to be a reference to the forgiveness of sins; others saw it to be a reference to the blessings conferred upon the Christian believer.

The phrase in verse 4, “and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit,” is an obvious reference to receiving the Holy Spirit, something that, in the New Testament, happens EXCLUSIVELY to those who have been saved.

The phrase in verse 5, “and have tasted the good word of God,” is a clear reference to the Christian’s experience of hearing the word of God preached and taught and the consequential experience of it in his life as a believer.

The phrase in verse 5, “and the powers of the age to come,” is a reference to the miracles that were performed by the Apostles and other Christians as a foreshadowing of the kingdom to come, and to the other blessings that Christians experience now in part but shall experience in their fullness in the future kingdom.

The phrase in verse 6, “and then have fallen away,” can be properly interpreted only to be speaking of falling from grace and the Christian faith, something that can NOT happen until AFTER a person is saved.

The phrases in verse 6, “it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame,” tell us of the absolutely horrendous consequence of a Christian falling from grace, making the death of Christ on the cross for his sins to be of no effect. This passage expressly speaks of a person who has heard the Gospel, believed it, was saved and baptized, repented of his sins, and enjoyed the blessing of being a born-again Christian—but who subsequently chose to reject Christ and return to his sins. And the fate of such a person could not possibly be any worse—it is “impossible to renew them again to repentance.” Most obviously it is not impossible to renew an unsaved person to repentance if they have repented but not been born again and then fall back into sin. Therefore, the person spoken of has necessarily been born again but has fallen away from the Christian faith. And the born-again Christian who, of his own free will, chooses to reject the Christ who redeemed him is beyond redemption and damned to the fires of hell for eternity.

Verses 7 & 8 are an analogy used to support the author’s statements. Just as the ground which once brought forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled received a blessing from God, and the ground that now yields thorns and thistles is worthless and ends up being burned, so the Christian which once brought forth good fruit unto God but who now brings forth bad fruit ends up being burned in the fires of hell.

Verse 9 tells us that the author has been warning his Christian readers about things that do not accompany salvation, things that happen to Christians who fall away from the faith. Nonetheless, he is reassuring them that that he does not expect them to fall away, as some others had done, but is convinced of better things concerning them, and things that, in their case, accompany salvation, even though he felt that he needed to warn them of the horrendous consequences of apostasy from the Christian faith.


Because of the severity of the Greek word translated “impossible” in verse 6, some very early Christians rejected the Epistle to the Hebrews as not being a part of the New Testament Canon, but its place in the New Testament Canon is now well established and its warning is stern.

Christians who fight tooth and nail to detract from the warning of this passage shall have the blood upon their hands of those who lose their salvation because they were told the warning did not apply to them and they got careless as a result.
For the majority of those 1,500 years, the majority was the RCC. Enough said. And since when did the majority decide sound doctrine?
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
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Funny, How in the bibe, New Testament to be exacty. Eternal security is all over it.

Stop listening to men, and listen to God. Scripture is our only guide,. The church was ruled by Rome for centuries., They reject eternal security and replace it with a paganized form of Christianity. So you would not expect to find eternal security in historical (outside the Bible) books, because the Roman church torched all books or writings they deemed as heresy.


But hey, If you want to continue trying to save yourself. And listen to history written by men, and not the word of God inspired by God himself. Feel free.

Maybe "all over it", but I have not found it in the text: at least not so far LOL! But I don't want to start an argument . . . I am out of here and off to a good night's sleep.
 

Metternich

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2018
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Maybe the answer is that OSAS is not true. Rom 11:12 [SUP]22 [/SUP]Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness; otherwise you too will be cut off.

Catholic Biblical Association (Great Britain). (1994). The Holy Bible: Revised Standard Version, Catholic edition (Ro 11:22). New York: National Council of Churches of Christ in the USA.