Verse for "once saved always saved"?
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E
If they can be reversed,. Then they are of no value.
I think jesus said it best.
John 6: [FONT="]35 And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst. [/FONT][FONT="][/FONT][FONT="]36 But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe. [/FONT][FONT="][/FONT][FONT="]37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out. [/FONT][FONT="][/FONT][FONT="]38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. [/FONT][FONT="][/FONT][FONT="]39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.[/FONT][FONT="][/FONT][FONT="]40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”[/FONT]
John 10: [FONT="]25 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in My Father’s name, they bear witness of Me. [/FONT][FONT="][/FONT][FONT="]26 But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you.[b] [/FONT][FONT="][/FONT][FONT="]27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.[/FONT][FONT="][/FONT][FONT="]28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.[/FONT][FONT="][/FONT][FONT="]29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand.[/FONT][FONT="][/FONT][FONT="]30 I and My Father are one.”
[/FONT][FONT="]we see facts, which you are missing
1. Jesus said ALL who were given to him WILL COME (he does not say maybe the will)
2. He said All who are given to him are his sheep
3. He said all who do not believe are not his sheep. Thus will continue to not believe
4. He says all who his WILL hear his voice and they will ALWAYS follow
5. He says all who comes will never be cast out, will never be lost, has eternal life, and WILL be raised on the last day, The will never perish, And no one can snatch us from his hands, No one includes ourselves.
You want to say we can Come, ands we have all these things, then we can uncome, yet Jesus said we will ALWAYS hear his ALWAYS hear his voice and ALWAYS follow, yet those who are not his will NEVER BELIEVE (remembering also many of those who he spoke of as unbelievers were disciples of his following him, including Judas.
Following god and claiming you believe and being his disciple does not maske you a child of God. Coming to him in FAITH and calling out to him as the tax collector did does, and jesus said he did go home justified, [/FONT]
E
so noah is more powerful than God.
Thanks!
Noah would have never tried, Because he had real faith, thats the fact you can not for some reason comprehend.
He knew his fate if he did not do as God said
he trusted God
He knew he was in Gods hands, and God would carry him to the other side.
Those who have true faith, as Noah did, also trust in these things, the difference? The other side happens to be heaven
Thanks!
Noah would have never tried, Because he had real faith, thats the fact you can not for some reason comprehend.
He knew his fate if he did not do as God said
he trusted God
He knew he was in Gods hands, and God would carry him to the other side.
Those who have true faith, as Noah did, also trust in these things, the difference? The other side happens to be heaven
I've always thought it was God who opened and shut doors. These are spiritual doors. In fact I'm certain it is only of God.
You give man too much power, only God has the power and authority to open and close these doors.
That's the problem with anti-reformed thought which allows for "loss of salvation" -- unbiblical emphasis and ability is granted to man.
You give man too much power, only God has the power and authority to open and close these doors.
That's the problem with anti-reformed thought which allows for "loss of salvation" -- unbiblical emphasis and ability is granted to man.
Your opinion only. John 6.37-40 is an incontrovertible one. Or don't you think Jesus meant it?
And how about:
But you do not believe (My Father's works) because you are not of My sheep. My sheep hear My voice and I know them, and they follow Me, and I give unto them eternal life, and they shall never perish, and none shall pluck them from My hand. My Father who gave them to Me is greater than all, and no one IS ABLE to pluck them out of the Father's hand. I and my Father are one (John 10.27-30).
All have sinned and come short of the glory of God, being accounted as righteous by His grace FREELY through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus, Whom God has set forth to be a propitiation through faith by His blood (Rom 3.23-25).
'Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you, so that you come behind in no gift, waiting for the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ,who will also confirm you unto the end, that you might be unreproveable in the Day of our Lord Jesus Christ.' (1 Corinth 1.6-8). (and this the corinthian church!)
'By grace you are saved, through faith, and that (gracious act) not of yourselves, it is the gift of God and not of doings, lest any man should boast, for we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God has before ordained that we should walk in them' (Eph 2.8-10).
'Being confident of this very thing, that he which has begun a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Jesus Christ' (Phil 2.6).
'Who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our doings, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, but now has been manifested by the appearing of our Saviour, Christ Jesus, who abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the Gospel (2 Tim 1.9).
I am not ashamed, for I know Him Whom I have believed, and am persuaded that He is able to keep that which I have committed to Him against that Day (2 Tim 1.12).
But when the kindness of God our Saviour, and His love towards man appeared, not by works done in righteousness which we did ourselves, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, which He poured out upon us richly through Christ Jesus our Saviour, that being justified by His grace we might be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. (Titus 3.4-7).
Wherein God, being minded to show more abundantly unto the heirs of promise the immutability of His Counsel, interposed with an oath, that by two immutable things in which it is impossible for God to lie we may have a strong encouragement who have fled for refuge to lay hold of the hope set before us, which we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and steadfast, and entering into that within the veil, whither as a forerunner Jesus entered for us, having become a High Priest for ever after the order of Melchisedek (Heb 7.7-20).
Wherefore He is able to save to the uttermost them that come unto God by Him, seeing He ever lives to make intercession for them (Heb 7.25).
He has perfected for ever those who are being sanctified (Heb 10.14)
[FONT=Georgia, serif]And they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]they[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] whose name has not been [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]written in the book of life from the foundation of the world[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] (Rev 17.8). [/FONT]
Nonsense.
And how about:
But you do not believe (My Father's works) because you are not of My sheep. My sheep hear My voice and I know them, and they follow Me, and I give unto them eternal life, and they shall never perish, and none shall pluck them from My hand. My Father who gave them to Me is greater than all, and no one IS ABLE to pluck them out of the Father's hand. I and my Father are one (John 10.27-30).
All have sinned and come short of the glory of God, being accounted as righteous by His grace FREELY through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus, Whom God has set forth to be a propitiation through faith by His blood (Rom 3.23-25).
'Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you, so that you come behind in no gift, waiting for the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ,who will also confirm you unto the end, that you might be unreproveable in the Day of our Lord Jesus Christ.' (1 Corinth 1.6-8). (and this the corinthian church!)
'By grace you are saved, through faith, and that (gracious act) not of yourselves, it is the gift of God and not of doings, lest any man should boast, for we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God has before ordained that we should walk in them' (Eph 2.8-10).
'Being confident of this very thing, that he which has begun a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Jesus Christ' (Phil 2.6).
'Who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our doings, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, but now has been manifested by the appearing of our Saviour, Christ Jesus, who abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the Gospel (2 Tim 1.9).
I am not ashamed, for I know Him Whom I have believed, and am persuaded that He is able to keep that which I have committed to Him against that Day (2 Tim 1.12).
But when the kindness of God our Saviour, and His love towards man appeared, not by works done in righteousness which we did ourselves, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, which He poured out upon us richly through Christ Jesus our Saviour, that being justified by His grace we might be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. (Titus 3.4-7).
Wherein God, being minded to show more abundantly unto the heirs of promise the immutability of His Counsel, interposed with an oath, that by two immutable things in which it is impossible for God to lie we may have a strong encouragement who have fled for refuge to lay hold of the hope set before us, which we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and steadfast, and entering into that within the veil, whither as a forerunner Jesus entered for us, having become a High Priest for ever after the order of Melchisedek (Heb 7.7-20).
Wherefore He is able to save to the uttermost them that come unto God by Him, seeing He ever lives to make intercession for them (Heb 7.25).
He has perfected for ever those who are being sanctified (Heb 10.14)
[FONT=Georgia, serif]And they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]they[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] whose name has not been [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]written in the book of life from the foundation of the world[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] (Rev 17.8). [/FONT]
Nonsense.
Exactly: And then we are left with what the text itself says.
So for Noah: God shut the door and "sealed" him into the ark.
Could he have gotten out of he had wanted to? The text does not answer that question either way.
So to use the story of Noah and the ark as a prooftext for "eternal security" or against it should not be done!
So for Noah: God shut the door and "sealed" him into the ark.
Could he have gotten out of he had wanted to? The text does not answer that question either way.
So to use the story of Noah and the ark as a prooftext for "eternal security" or against it should not be done!
Scriptures= Word of God.
(1Thessalonians 2:13) New International Version (NIV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And we also thank God continually because, when you received theword of God, which you heard from us, you accepted it not as a human word,but as it actually is, the word of God, which is indeed at work in you whobelieve.
(2 Timothy 3:16) New International Version (NIV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful forteaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
(2 Peter1:20-21) New International Version (NIV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture cameabout by the prophet’s own interpretation of things. [SUP]21 [/SUP]Forprophecy never had its origin in the human will, but prophets, though human,spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.
God can notlie.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]in the hope of eternal life, which God, who does notlie, promised before the beginning of time,
(Numbers 23:19)New International Version (NIV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP]God is nothuman, that he should lie,
not a human being, that he should change his mind.
Does he speak and then not act?
Does he promise and not fulfill?
(Hebrews 6:18) NewInternational Version (NIV)
[SUP]18 [/SUP]God did this so that, by two unchangeable things in which it isimpossible for God to lie, we who have fled to take hold of thehope set before us may be greatly encouraged.
Who are thedisciples of Jesus?
[h=1](John 8:31-32) NewInternational Version (NIV)[/h]
[SUP]31 [/SUP]To the Jews whohad believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to myteaching, you are really my disciples. [SUP]32 [/SUP]Thenyou will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”
When Jesuswas tempted he used the Word of God or the Scriptures against Satan.
[h=1](Luke 4:1-4) NewInternational Version (NIV)[/h]
4 Jesus, full of theHoly Spirit, left the Jordan and was led by the Spirit into thewilderness, [SUP]2 [/SUP]wherefor forty days he was tempted[SUP][[/SUP][SUP]a[/SUP][SUP]][/SUP] by the devil. He atenothing during those days, and at the end of them he was hungry.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]The devil said tohim, “If you are the Son of God, tell this stone to become bread.”
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Jesusanswered, “It is written: ‘Man shall not live on bread alone.’[SUP][[/SUP][SUP]b[/SUP][SUP]][/SUP]”
Jesus declares all foodclean.
[h=1](Mark 7:14-23) NewInternational Version (NIV)[/h]
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Again Jesus calledthe crowd to him and said, “Listen to me, everyone, andunderstand this. [SUP]15 [/SUP]Nothingoutside a person can defile them by going into them. Rather, it is what comes outof a person that defiles them.” [SUP][16] [[/SUP][SUP]a[/SUP][SUP]][/SUP]
[SUP]17 [/SUP]After he had leftthe crowd and entered the house, his disciples asked him about thisparable. [SUP]18 [/SUP]“Areyou so dull?” he asked. “Don’t you see that nothing that enters a person from the outside candefile them?[SUP]19 [/SUP]Forit doesn’t go into their heart but into their stomach, and then out of thebody.” (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean.)
[SUP]20 [/SUP]He went on: “What comes out ofa person is what defiles them. [SUP]21 [/SUP]For it is from within, out of a person’s heart, thatevil thoughts come—sexual immorality, theft, murder, [SUP]22 [/SUP]adultery,greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. [SUP]23 [/SUP]Allthese evils come from inside and defile a person.”
You asked for 1, here are 8 & there are many more
2 Tim 1:14 Refer's to the Holy Spirit as a guard & deposit.
2 Cor 5:5, Eph 1:14 & 2 Cor 1:22. Refer to the Holy Spirit as "the earnest" = Pledge.
Eph 1:13, 2 Cor 1:22 & Eph 4:30 Refer to the Holy Spirit as a seal.
2 Tim 1:14 The Holy Spirit who dwells within us, guard the good deposit entrusted to you
(NOTE: The Holy Spirit dwelling within us. Is God's deposit & guards us until the day of redemption. Also see Ehp 4:30 below. When our corruptible bodies are changed to the incorruptible)
2 Cor 5:5 God, who also hath given unto us the "earnest" of the Spirit
(NOTE: God's Holy Spirit dwelling within us is the earnest. Earnest translated from the Greek word: arrabon. Also means a pledge)
Eph1:14 Which is the "earnest" of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession
(NOTE: God's Holy Spirit dwelling within us is the earnest/pledge. That God's us has made us. Soon Christ will redeem what he purchased on the cross)
2 Cor 1:22 Who hath also "sealed us" & "given the earnest" of the Holy Spirit in our hearts
(NOTE: God has placed His Holy Spirit in the believers heart. As a pledge & a SEAL until the soon coming day of our redemption)
Eph 1:13 salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were "sealed" with that holy Spirit of promise,
(NOTE: As soon as we believed. God sealed up with a promise, His Holy Spirit).
Eph 4:30 grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are "sealed" unto the day of redemption
(NOTE: Believers are SEALED with God's Holy Spirit. It a pomise & a guard the soon Christ will come for us)
1 John 5:13 13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
(NOTE: John writes: that you may know ""PRESENT TENSE"" that you have eternal life)
Romans 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
(NOTE: God doesn't go back on His Word)
2 Tim 1:14 Refer's to the Holy Spirit as a guard & deposit.
2 Cor 5:5, Eph 1:14 & 2 Cor 1:22. Refer to the Holy Spirit as "the earnest" = Pledge.
Eph 1:13, 2 Cor 1:22 & Eph 4:30 Refer to the Holy Spirit as a seal.
2 Tim 1:14 The Holy Spirit who dwells within us, guard the good deposit entrusted to you
(NOTE: The Holy Spirit dwelling within us. Is God's deposit & guards us until the day of redemption. Also see Ehp 4:30 below. When our corruptible bodies are changed to the incorruptible)
2 Cor 5:5 God, who also hath given unto us the "earnest" of the Spirit
(NOTE: God's Holy Spirit dwelling within us is the earnest. Earnest translated from the Greek word: arrabon. Also means a pledge)
Eph1:14 Which is the "earnest" of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession
(NOTE: God's Holy Spirit dwelling within us is the earnest/pledge. That God's us has made us. Soon Christ will redeem what he purchased on the cross)
2 Cor 1:22 Who hath also "sealed us" & "given the earnest" of the Holy Spirit in our hearts
(NOTE: God has placed His Holy Spirit in the believers heart. As a pledge & a SEAL until the soon coming day of our redemption)
Eph 1:13 salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were "sealed" with that holy Spirit of promise,
(NOTE: As soon as we believed. God sealed up with a promise, His Holy Spirit).
Eph 4:30 grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are "sealed" unto the day of redemption
(NOTE: Believers are SEALED with God's Holy Spirit. It a pomise & a guard the soon Christ will come for us)
1 John 5:13 13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
(NOTE: John writes: that you may know ""PRESENT TENSE"" that you have eternal life)
Romans 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
(NOTE: God doesn't go back on His Word)
You don't think God was surprised do you?
You don't think God could have prevented that if He had wanted to?
All of it happened for a reason, don't you think?
What I am suggesting is that nothing is outside of Gods Control and Gods Plan. We don't always understand it or how it works but God does. Nothing we do or think ruins Gods Plans because His Thoughts are high above our thoughts and His Ways are high above our ways.
Romans 8:28-32
[FONT="]28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.[/FONT]
[FONT="]29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.[/FONT]
[FONT="]30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.[/FONT]
[FONT="]31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?[/FONT]
[FONT="]32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?[/FONT]
You don't think God could have prevented that if He had wanted to?
All of it happened for a reason, don't you think?
What I am suggesting is that nothing is outside of Gods Control and Gods Plan. We don't always understand it or how it works but God does. Nothing we do or think ruins Gods Plans because His Thoughts are high above our thoughts and His Ways are high above our ways.
Romans 8:28-32
[FONT="]28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.[/FONT]
[FONT="]29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.[/FONT]
[FONT="]30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.[/FONT]
[FONT="]31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?[/FONT]
[FONT="]32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?[/FONT]
Good verses with powerful promises! Praise the Lord!
But I asked for a verse that specifically and clearly states that "once a person is saved, they will always be saved".
The verses about the Holy Spirit being a pledge and deposit or downpayment, etc. are all promises to the Christian - the believer. They do not apply to the non-Christian - the person who is not believing. Those verses do not say that once a person is a believer that they will always be a believer.
I John 5:13 says that the one believing (Greek present tense - which means ongoing continual action) can know that he ongoing having (Greek present tense) eternal life. Wonderful truth - we can know that we are saved 100%
But this is not a promise made to unbelievers. And the verse says nothing about "once a person is saved that they will always be saved"
Romans 11:29 - ?? You say this verse means "God doesn't go back on His Word" - Completely agreed!
But what does that have to do with the question in the OP?
But I asked for a verse that specifically and clearly states that "once a person is saved, they will always be saved".
The verses about the Holy Spirit being a pledge and deposit or downpayment, etc. are all promises to the Christian - the believer. They do not apply to the non-Christian - the person who is not believing. Those verses do not say that once a person is a believer that they will always be a believer.
I John 5:13 says that the one believing (Greek present tense - which means ongoing continual action) can know that he ongoing having (Greek present tense) eternal life. Wonderful truth - we can know that we are saved 100%
But this is not a promise made to unbelievers. And the verse says nothing about "once a person is saved that they will always be saved"
Romans 11:29 - ?? You say this verse means "God doesn't go back on His Word" - Completely agreed!
But what does that have to do with the question in the OP?
1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
1 John 2:20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.
(NOTE: An Unction = An Anointing = Holy Spirit. Once regenerated/born again, having received via the Holy Spirit, is what make's a true Christians. This verse makes it clear, those referred to in verse 19 were never a part of the regenerated/born again Body of Christ)
Matthew 7:23 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
(NOTE: John the Baptist said, Christ is coming, he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit. Jesus knows who receives he baptizes/indwells with the Holy Spirit and who doesn't. No matter how many times someone mouths some words, gets dunked in a river, baptismal pool whatever. It's only the Spirit Filled/regenerated/born again believers that will spend eternity with Christ)
Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
(NOTE: Believers are SEALED Gods Holy Spirit until the day their Adamic corruptible bodies are redeemed & transformed into, eternal, incorruptible SPIRITUAL bodies)
1 John 2:20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.
(NOTE: An Unction = An Anointing = Holy Spirit. Once regenerated/born again, having received via the Holy Spirit, is what make's a true Christians. This verse makes it clear, those referred to in verse 19 were never a part of the regenerated/born again Body of Christ)
Matthew 7:23 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
(NOTE: John the Baptist said, Christ is coming, he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit. Jesus knows who receives he baptizes/indwells with the Holy Spirit and who doesn't. No matter how many times someone mouths some words, gets dunked in a river, baptismal pool whatever. It's only the Spirit Filled/regenerated/born again believers that will spend eternity with Christ)
Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
(NOTE: Believers are SEALED Gods Holy Spirit until the day their Adamic corruptible bodies are redeemed & transformed into, eternal, incorruptible SPIRITUAL bodies)
I John 2:19,20 - Yes, indeed, I agree. The ones referred to were never a part of the church - thus we can conclude they were never true believers. (not sure how you get "once saved, always saved" from that?)
Ephesians 4:30 - Yes, indeed believers are "sealed" by the Holy Spirit. Unbelievers are not sealed. Only those who are believing in Christ have this promise. You can try to make "sealed unto the day of redemption" mean "once saved always saved", but it doesn't say that directly. If you decide that Scripture teaches "once saved always saved", then of course this could be a good supporting Scripture.
Thus going back to my original question for the OP - Is there a verse that directly and clearly says OSAS, or is this a teaching derived from the overall tone of Scripture?
Ephesians 4:30 - Yes, indeed believers are "sealed" by the Holy Spirit. Unbelievers are not sealed. Only those who are believing in Christ have this promise. You can try to make "sealed unto the day of redemption" mean "once saved always saved", but it doesn't say that directly. If you decide that Scripture teaches "once saved always saved", then of course this could be a good supporting Scripture.
Thus going back to my original question for the OP - Is there a verse that directly and clearly says OSAS, or is this a teaching derived from the overall tone of Scripture?
L
Peter said this in 2Pe 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; It is apparent that there is no once saved always saved. If we have sin then we need to seek God for His forgiveness even as a Christian believer.
