Verse for "once saved always saved"?

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Sagart

Senior Member
May 7, 2017
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Funny, How in the bibe, New Testament to be exacty. Eternal security is all over it.
The “funny” thing is that so far, not so much as one verse has been posted that supports the new and novel doctrine of eternal security! The very same verses have been posted over and over again while ignoring the fact that it has been clearly shown that these verses, when read in the Greek New Testament given to us by God Himself, do not support the doctrine of eternal security. Moreover, it has been shown over and over again that many of these verses actually teach the doctrine of conditional security!

Stop listening to men, and listen to God. Scripture is our only guide,. The church was ruled by Rome for centuries., They reject eternal security and replace it with a paganized form of Christianity. So you would not expect to find eternal security in historical (outside the Bible) books, because the Roman church torched all books or writings they deemed as heresy.
Hopefully, people will stop listening to you, and study the Bible in the languages in which it was given to us by God Almighty. Moreover, The Bishop of the Church of Rome did not usurp authority over the other bishops of the Church until the fifth century. Furthermore, the other bishops were still free to interpret the Bible as they saw fit. The Church as a whole was widely divided over a number of doctrines, and between 325 A.D. (the First Council of Nicea) and 787 A.D. (the Second Council of Nicea), five more Church Councils were held. We have detailed written records of these councils, the theological issues that were discussed and debated, and the outcomes of the councils. The concept that a Christian could not lose his salvation was never introduced, and we have in the ancient literature of the church no attempt to teach it, and no attempt to refute it. Indeed, the concept that a Christian could not lose his salvation is first mentioned in the literature from the first century of the Protestant Reformation when the concept was deduced from the new concept that man can do nothing to determine his salvation—either possitively, or negatively.

But hey, If you want to continue trying to save yourself.
Fundamentally evil replies such as this testify very loudly to the fact that some Christians can and do fall from grace, and become eternally lost.


And listen to history written by men, and not the word of God inspired by God himself. Feel free.
Only a horribly deceived fool does not heed to history written by godly and responsible men when that history is supported by hundreds of thousands of original documents. Moreover, your history, “The Roman church torched all books or writings they deemed as heresy,” is not supported by so much as a wet noodle, and is nothing but a filthy lie from the darkest abyss of hell!
 

Sagart

Senior Member
May 7, 2017
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For the majority of those 1,500 years, the majority was the RCC. Enough said.
No, it is not enough said! The Roman Catholic Church did not even exist as such until the 5th century, and for the nearly 500 year after 1517, the majority has been the Protestant Church.

And since when did the majority decide sound doctrine?
What hypocrisy! The “majority” is of great importance when it is the “Majority Text,” but of very little importance when one disagrees with it the majority.

However, the bottom line is what the Scriptures themselves say in the languages in which God gave them to us, but no one in this thread advocating for the doctrine of eternal security has had sufficient interest in the Scriptures to quote them in the languages in which God gave them to us, let alone care enough about them to read and study them. Perhaps the doctrine of eternal security makes Christians so lackadaisical that they do not really care what the Bible says, but just like to argue about it!
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
You mean that if I say I am a Christian and have had a real experience with God - and then I do some deed that is Biblically and morally wrong (like homosexuality) that you will judge me and say I was never a Christian to start with.

Now maybe you mean if a person ongoingly lives in sin (or homosexuality, etc.) that this proves that they were never born again to start with.

That sounds to me like judging me by my works - and if I don't keep up good works to your standard (or God's standard?) then I was never really saved to start with.

If what you are saying is how I viewed security, I would be very insecure! I would be very worried that my works would not match up!
Just poking around and found your post here and got a good chuckle out of it.

This is what I was trying to point out in the 'Not By Works' thread. The 'can't lose it' crowd come down on you pretty hard over there for saying what their own 'can't lose it' doctrine says, that you have to have works and have them to the end or else you are not born again. But when somebody outside the 'can't lose it' crowd says you have to have works they're slammed for preaching a works salvation doctrine.
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
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The “funny” thing is that so far, not so much as one verse has been posted that supports the new and novel doctrine of eternal security! The very same verses have been posted over and over again while ignoring the fact that it has been clearly shown that these verses, when read in the Greek New Testament given to us by God Himself, do not support the doctrine of eternal security. Moreover, it has been shown over and over again that many of these verses actually teach the doctrine of conditional security!
Though I think I might agree with you when you say "not so much as one verse has been posted that supports the new and novel doctrine of eternal security!", I want to clarify again something about this thread:

If a person starts with the belief that Scripture teaches "once saved always saved", then it is possible to find Scriptures that would seem to support this doctrine. But in this thread I have been asking for a verse that clearly says that once a person is saved he is always saved: not one that can be interpreted that way (if one begins with a belief in eternal security).

Here again it is concisely: Is there a Scripture verse or passage that clearly says that "once a person is saved they will always be saved"?

For example: the doctrine of salvation by grace through faith is clearly stated in Ephesians 2:8: "For by grace are ye saved through faith"
 
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Despite years of Bible study and talking to many people, I have not yet had anyone show me a verse that clearly says "once saved, always saved?" Is there such a verse in the Bible, or is the doctrine of eternal security a conclusion from study of Scriptural themes and principles?
OSAS (Once-Saved-Always-Saved) is a potentially deadly heresy. The Bible doesn't teach it, which is why there is not scripture to support it. Those who use scripture to support OSAS either don't understand the meaning of the scriptures they use, or they focus on certain scriptures that talk about our eternal security in Christ, but ignore the other scriptures that talk about the same thing, which put the scriptures they emphasize in proper context.

Example: "Never will I leave you nor forsake you." (Heb 13:5)
This is true. But it is within the context of our remaining in Christ, which there are conditions for, as other scriptures show plainly. So long as we remain in Christ, He will never leave us or forsake us. What this scripture does NOT mean is that He will never leave us or forsake us no matter what we do. The Bible clearly teaches otherwise, and Christians who believe that that is what this scripture means are seriously mistaken.

There are so many scriptures that show that once in Christ we have a choice whether to remain in Him or not, and that our eternal security is not UNCONDITIONAL, and not a one that proves OSAS, except by misinterpretation or focusing on certain scriptures without considering the others that speak about this subject.

If you believe that there's nothing you can do to forfeit your salvation, you potentially set yourself up to do so. That is why I call OSAS a potentially deadly heresy.

Just a few of the scriptures that show that OSAS is a lie:

Matthew 5:13; 24:45-51

John 15:1-6; 10 (qualifies Romans 8:38,39)

Romans 11:17-22

1 Corinthians 9:24-27

Colossians 1:21-23

Hebrews 6:4-8 ; 10:26-31

James 5:19,20

2 Peter 2:20-22

1 John 5:16, 17

Revelation 2:5; 3:1,2,15,16; 14:9-12

The most common excuse/opposing argument I hear regarding these scriptures is that the people to whom they apply are just "fake Christians" among true Christians, who were never saved in the first place. Then they go on to talk about how true Christians don't ever willfully sin or choose to persist in sin or that they can't fall away from the Lord, which the Bible does not teach and which is obviously false if you know true Christians and are an honest person. Telling a true Christian who is in sin of some kind that he or she isn't saved at all, rather than exhorting him or her to repent, is adding insult to injury.

Using the "fake Christian" argument is an example of wresting the scriptures to support a false doctrine with more false teaching. Of course there are fake Christians, and the Bible addresses that subject too in various places; but these scriptures are written to and about true Christians, not fake ones. Knowing what is written for and about whom is necessary in order to have a correct understanding of the scriptures, as is comparing scripture with scripture on the same subject (without bias).
 

Sagart

Senior Member
May 7, 2017
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Though I think I might agree with you when you say "not so much as one verse has been posted that supports the new and novel doctrine of eternal security!", I want to clarify again something about this thread:

If a person starts with the belief that Scripture teaches "once saved always saved", then it is possible to find Scriptures that would seem to support this doctrine. But in this thread I have been asking for a verse that clearly says that once a person is saved he is always saved: not one that can be interpreted that way (if one begins with a belief in eternal security).

Here again it is concisely: Is there a Scripture verse or passage that clearly says that "once a person is saved they will always be saved"?

For example: the doctrine of salvation by grace through faith is clearly stated in Ephesians 2:8: "For by grace are ye saved through faith"
One of the first Bible passages that I memorized as a young Christian was Ephesians 2:8-9 in the King James Version,

8. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9. Not of works, lest any man should boast.

I heard and read this passage being quoted very many times and frequently quoted it myself when witnessing to non-Christians. I thought that I understood it just fine until I began studying the Apostle Paul, his missionary journeys, the messages that he preached, and his epistles.* Then I became more and more familiar with Paul and his goals and objectives as the Apostle to the Gentiles and the obstacles that he encountered and dealt with.

Circumcision was a very important part of the Old Testament covenant of Law (Lev. 12:3) that in the Jewish mind separated Jews from Gentiles. The earliest Christians were all Jews and Christianity was understood by them to be a sect of Judaism. Therefore it was very difficult for them to accept the idea that an uncircumcised Gentile could be a Christian no matter how much he believed in Jesus. Explaining this mystery to both the Jews and Gentiles was one of Paul’s major goals and objectives, and hence a major theme in his Epistles to the Romans, the Galatians, and the Ephesians.

When Paul wrote of “works” that he contrasted with grace and faith, he was always referring to the works of the Law, that is, the Old Testament covenant of Law as opposed to the New Testament covenant of grace:

Gal. 2:16. nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.

Gal. 3:2. This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?
3. Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?
4. Did you suffer so many things in vain--if indeed it was in vain?
5. So then, does He who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?

Gal. 3:9. So then those who are of faith are blessed with Abraham, the believer.
10. For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, "CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO DOES NOT ABIDE BY ALL THINGS WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THE LAW, TO PERFORM THEM."

Rom. 2:4. Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
5. but after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up for thyself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
6. who will render to every man according to his works: (ASV)

Rom. 3:27. Where then is boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith.
28. For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.

And compare the following:

Gal. 2:21. “I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly.”

Gal. 5:4. You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

Gal. 5:11. But I, brethren, if I still preach circumcision, why am I still persecuted? Then the stumbling block of the cross has been abolished.

Gal. 6:12. Those who desire to make a good showing in the flesh try to compel you to be circumcised, simply so that they will not be persecuted for the cross of Christ.
13. For those who are circumcised do not even keep the Law themselves, but they desire to have you circumcised so that they may boast in your flesh.
14. But may it never be that I would boast, except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.
15. For neither is circumcision anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation.

Rom. 9:30. What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, attained righteousness, even the righteousness which is by faith;
31. but Israel, pursuing a law of righteousness, did not arrive at that law.
32. Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as though it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone,
33. just as it is written, “BEHOLD, I LAY IN ZION A STONE OF STUMBLING AND A ROCK OF OFFENSE, AND HE WHO BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED.”


Therefore, the “works” that he wrote of in Eph. 2:9 were not the “good works” that Jesus taught one must perform to be justified and saved (Matt. 16:27, 25:34-46; Mark 10:17-30; Luke 10:25-37; John 5:28-29) or the good works that James taught one must perform to be justified and saved (James 2:14-26) or the good works that we read of in the faith chapter in the New Testament (Heb. 11), but works of the Law and circumcision in particular. (continued in the following post)

James, in his epistle, approached the matter from a very different perspective; that is, he vigorously taught that works are essential for ones justification and salvation, but he was not writing of circumcision or any other work of the Law, but exclusively the good works that Jesus commands us to perform.

When we carefully read Eph. 2:8-9 in the context of 8-16 (see below), we see (especially in verse 11, but also in the context), that Paul is explaining to the Christians in Ephesus that a Gentile could become a Christian without keeping the Law, specifically without being circumcised.

Ephesians 2:8. For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
9. not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
10. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.
11. Therefore remember that formerly you, the Gentiles in the flesh, who are called "Uncircumcision" by the so- called "Circumcision," which is performed in the flesh by human hands—
12. remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.
13. But now in Christ Jesus you who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.
14. For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall,
15. by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace,
16. and might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, by it having put to death the enmity.

When Eph. 2:8-9 is read apart from both the literary and historical context in which it was originally written, it can appear to teach precisely the opposite of what Jesus and James taught—a doctrine that was entirely foreign to the teaching of Paul and a doctrine that has nothing at all to do with Paul’s goal and objective of explaining to both the Jews and Gentiles the mystery that a Gentile could become a Christian without keeping the Law, specifically without being circumcised. (Paul used the word “circumcision”—in our English translations—30 times in 26 verses, and the word “circumcised” 11 times in 9 verses).

We read in the New Testament that both the grace by which we are saved and the faith through which we are saved are gifts from God,** but in order to be saved, we must allow both the grace and the faith to work in our lives, and that includes performing the works that Jesus and His brother James taught we must perform to be justified and saved.

The grace of God is the dynamic action of God by and through which He saves us from sin and its consequences through faith, and empowers us to serve Him. It is grace because the action is wholly voluntary and without any obligation on the part of God, and is freely given to us through the faith that He also gives to us. An integral part of that faith is our volitional obedience to Christ as we yield to the power of the Holy Spirit working in our lives. That obedience includes the performance of the good works that He commands us to perform.

(All Scripture quotations are from the NASB, 1995, unless otherwise noted)

*Although many scholars today believe that Paul did not write the Epistle to the Ephesians, I believe that he did.

**The Greek pronoun τουτο translated “that” in Eph. 2:8 is neuter in gender and the Greek noun translated “faith” in the same verse is feminine in gender and some commentators have argued that the pronoun, therefore, cannot refer to faith but must refer to the process of salvation (the Greek noun for “salvation” is also feminine). This argument is without merit, however, because και τουτο is an idiomatic expression and the gender of the pronoun is consequently insignificant. The Church Fathers (Chrysostom, Theodoret, and Jerome in particular) interpreted the pronoun as referring to faith and so have many scholars and commentators including Erasmus, Beza, Crocius, Cocceius, Grotius, Estius, Bengel, Meier, Baumgarten-Crusius, Bisiping, and Hodge. More recent scholars and commentators acknowledge that the pronoun may refer to the noun “grace,” the verb “saved,” the noun “faith,” or the process of salvation by grace. See especially the two-volume commentary on Paul’s Epistle to the Ephesians by Marcus S. Barth and the 494 page commentary on Paul’s Epistle to the Ephesians by Andrew T. Lincoln.

In 1 Peter 2:19, we find exactly the same neuter demonstrative pronominal adjective that we find in Eph. 2:8 possibly referring to the feminine noun χαρις (grace).

1 Peter 2:19 τουτο γαρ χαρις ει δια συνειδησιν θεου υποφερει τις λυπας πασχων αδικως

However, J. Ramsey Michaels, in his 1988 commentary on 1 Peter (Word Biblical Commentary, Vol. 49, p. 139) explains this by writing, “The antecedent of τουτο is the whole conditional clause introduced by ει. Each part of Peter’s three-part formulation is linked to a conditional clause envisioning a set of possible circumstances.”

See also Robertson’s A Grammar of the Greek New Testament in the Light of Historical Research, p. 704
 

mailmandan

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Apr 7, 2014
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When Paul wrote of “works” that he contrasted with grace and faith, he was always referring to the works of the Law, that is, the Old Testament covenant of Law as opposed to the New Testament covenant of grace:

Therefore, the “works” that he wrote of in Eph. 2:9 were not the “good works” that Jesus taught one must perform to be justified and saved (Matt. 16:27, 25:34-46; Mark 10:17-30; Luke 10:25-37; John 5:28-29) or the good works that James taught one must perform to be justified and saved (James 2:14-26) or the good works that we read of in the faith chapter in the New Testament (Heb. 11), but works of the Law and circumcision in particular. (continued in the following post)

James, in his epistle, approached the matter from a very different perspective; that is, he vigorously taught that works are essential for ones justification and salvation, but he was not writing of circumcision or any other work of the Law, but exclusively the good works that Jesus commands us to perform.
This is the typical argument that I hear from Roman Catholics -- saved by "these" works (good works) and just not "those" works (works of the law).

In James 2:15-16, the example of a "work" that James gives is: "If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, and one of you says to them, "Depart in peace, be warmed and filled," but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit?" To give a brother or sister these things needed for the body would certainly be a "good work" yet to neglect such a brother or sister and not give them the things needed for the body is to break the second great commandment "love your neighbor as yourself" (Matthew 22:39) as found written in the law of Moses (Leviticus 19:18).

In Matthew 22:37-40, we read: Jesus said to him, 'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.' This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets. Please tell me, which good works could a Christian accomplish which are "completely detached" from these two great commandments which are found in the law of Moses? (Deuteronomy 6:5; Leviticus 19:18). *Are there any genuine good works Christians do which fall outside of loving God and our neighbor as ourself?

Paul does not limit "works" to merely the ceremonial aspect of the law. Elsewhere, Paul said that it's not by works of righteousness which we have done but according to His mercy He saved us.. (Titus 3:5) and in 2 Timothy 1:9, he said - He saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity.

So it's not merely specific works under the ceremonial aspect of the law, but good works in general as well, which fall under the moral aspect of the law. Did Paul ever say saved through faith and works? NO.
 
Dec 11, 2017
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There are so many Christians who think they're fighting some kind of noble crusade against "works based salvation" because they confuse the scriptures that are referring to the Law of Moses with the commands of Christ that Christians are supposed to keep.

It's true that we aren't saved by anything we've done or can do---whether works of the Law of Moses or anything else---but by the power and mercy of God and His sovereign choice. But there are conditions for keeping that salvation once we're saved, and failure to abide by the conditions of God's promises means disqualification from the promises. I know of no promise of God that doesn't have conditions.

The Christians who think they're fighting a good fight by telling other Christians that insistence upon obedience to the commandments of the New Testament (not to the Law of Moses) is "self-righteousness" or "legalism" (when God says that keeping His commandments is the very LOVE of Him), are actually fighting against the doctrine of Christianity.

"Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you..." (Matthew 28:19, 20)

Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure." (Philippians 2:12,13)

"I know your works. You have the reputation of being alive, but you are dead. Wake up and strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I have not found your works complete in the sight of my God. Remember then, what you received and heard. Keep it, and repent. If you will not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come against you." (Revelation 3:1-3)

Blessed are they that do His commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. (Revelation 22:14)

(I wish those anti-"legalism" crusaders would just sit down and be quiet. They're doing harm, not good---as are the preachers/promoters of the false doctrine of sinless perfection--which the anti-"legalism" sort accuse Christians who stress obedience to the commandments of the New Testament of preaching. Better yet, go and learn what the New Testament actually teaches.)
 

stonesoffire

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Nov 24, 2013
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There are so many Christians who think they're fighting some kind of noble crusade against "works based salvation" because they confuse the scriptures that are referring to the Law of Moses with the commands of Christ that Christians are supposed to keep.

It's true that we aren't saved by anything we've done or can do---whether works of the Law of Moses or anything else---but by the power and mercy of God and His sovereign choice. But there are conditions for keeping that salvation once we're saved, and failure to abide by the conditions of God's promises means disqualification from the promises. I know of no promise of God that doesn't have conditions.

The Christians who think they're fighting a good fight by telling other Christians that insistence upon obedience to the commandments of the New Testament (not to the Law of Moses) is "self-righteousness" or "legalism" (when God says that keeping His commandments is the very LOVE of Him), are actually fighting against the doctrine of Christianity.

"Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you..." (Matthew 28:19, 20)

Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure." (Philippians 2:12,13)

"I know your works. You have the reputation of being alive, but you are dead. Wake up and strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I have not found your works complete in the sight of my God. Remember then, what you received and heard. Keep it, and repent. If you will not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come against you." (Revelation 3:1-3)

Blessed are they that do His commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. (Revelation 22:14)

(I wish those anti-"legalism" crusaders would just sit down and be quiet. They're doing harm, not good---as are the preachers/promoters of the false doctrine of sinless perfection--which the anti-"legalism" sort accuse Christians who stress obedience to the commandments of the New Testament of preaching. Better yet, go and learn what the New Testament actually teaches.)
What is the commandment that one must obey in order to eat of the tree of life?

After you answer, will ask more.
 

FlyingDove

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Dec 27, 2017
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God's Gift Of Everlasting Life Thru Faith In Jesus Christ

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but """have everlasting life"""

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son """hath everlasting life"""

John 6:35 Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; """he that believeth on me shall never thirst"""

1 Peter 1:
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy """hath begotten us""" again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

4 To """an inheritance incorruptible""", and undefiled, and """that fadeth not away""", reserved in heaven for you,

5 Who are """kept by the power of God through faith""" unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that heareth my word & believeth on him that sent me, """hath everlasting life""" and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”

John 10:28 """I give unto them eternal life"""; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.”

Romans 8:33-39
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord

MY favorite verse on the subject:

1 John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; """""that ye may know that ye have eternal life"""""
(NOTE: That you may """KNOW""" that you have eternal life)

Day by day, we can enjoy the blessing of our eternal salvation. We are being guarded & protected by the power of God's indwelling Holy Spirit.

Given to every person that places their Faith. In the redemptive sin atoning sacrifice. Found in the death (sins wage paid), burial & resurrection (God's receipt, payment receive) of Jesus the Christ.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
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Good post flyingdove. Love the name too.! :)

still waiting on my question. What command must I fulfill in order to eat from the tree of life?

back much later. Dinner and a movie with husband.
 

Sagart

Senior Member
May 7, 2017
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This is the typical argument that I hear from Roman Catholics -- saved by "these" works (good works) and just not "those" works (works of the law).

In James 2:15-16, the example of a "work" that James gives is: "If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, and one of you says to them, "Depart in peace, be warmed and filled," but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit?" To give a brother or sister these things needed for the body would certainly be a "good work" yet to neglect such a brother or sister and not give them the things needed for the body is to break the second great commandment "love your neighbor as yourself" (Matthew 22:39) as found written in the law of Moses (Leviticus 19:18).

In Matthew 22:37-40, we read: Jesus said to him, 'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.' This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets. Please tell me, which good works could a Christian accomplish which are "completely detached" from these two great commandments which are found in the law of Moses? (Deuteronomy 6:5; Leviticus 19:18). *Are there any genuine good works Christians do which fall outside of loving God and our neighbor as ourself?

Paul does not limit "works" to merely the ceremonial aspect of the law. Elsewhere, Paul said that it's not by works of righteousness which we have done but according to His mercy He saved us.. (Titus 3:5) and in 2 Timothy 1:9, he said - He saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity.

So it's not merely specific works under the ceremonial aspect of the law, but good works in general as well, which fall under the moral aspect of the law. Did Paul ever say saved through faith and works? NO.
Please re-read my post, and then reply to what I wrote rather than some nonsense!
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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You attributed to me a ridiculous post written by someone else!
Just as you have done here. Edit time is five minutes, but if someone does not really know how to parse html, or fix the error, it keeps getting repeated. I had to fix this post's quote, or it would have done the same :p
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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Good post flyingdove. Love the name too.! :)

still waiting on my question. What command must I fulfill in order to eat from the tree of life?

back much later. Dinner and a movie with husband.

i believe the command is "
Come" and "Eat" with "Believe" being tacit.

I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty.
(John 6:35)

I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. And this bread, which I will give for the life of the world, is My flesh.
(John 6:51)

or maybe we are in fact talking about different things :)
 
Dec 11, 2017
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What is the commandment that one must obey in order to eat of the tree of life?

After you answer, will ask more.
Commandments, not "commandment".

Answer: All of them. But not perfectly. (I will explain).

If you're saved and you choose not to keep the commandments of the Lord that we are given as Christians in the New Testament (everything that you know)---which doesn't mean that you keep them perfectly (do everything right all the time) or that you never sin, but that you keep what you know to the best of your ability with God's help---in other words, rebellion, you can potentially forfeit your eternal life in Christ.

God is the one who determines how much rebellion is too much; but what evil fool would test Him to find out?

The kind of sin that leads to the potential loss of one's salvation (besides the unforgivable sins) is not our inevitable stumblings throughout our Christian walk (which we repent of), but persistence in willful sin: You know what God commands or wants you to do and you just refuse to do it, or you keep on doing something you know He doesn't want you to do---and you refuse to repent.

We can repent of sins when we sin and be forgiven (with the exception of unforgivable sins), provided our repentance is genuine. And we should certainly try not to sin; but stumbling is inevitable so long as we are in the body, with its sinful nature. Sinning in various ways now and then throughout one's Christian lifetime and (genuinely) repenting when you do is not the same as persistence in willful sin: Knowing what God commands and wants you to do and stubbornly refusing to do it, or stubbornly continuing to do something you know He commands you not to do and doesn't want you to do---without repenting.

To sum it up: Perfect obedience means doing everything you know (keeping the commandments of the New Testament and doing what you know to be God's will for you personally), to the best of your ability, with God's help. It doesn't mean never sinning.

(In my experience, people who want to muddy the waters about this are contentious people with impure hearts, and probably unclean hands as well. If you're one of them, I advise you to examine your heart before the Lord before making a reply.)
 
Dec 11, 2017
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You attributed to me a ridiculous post written by someone else!
I'm confused as to whether you are replying to me or to stonesoffire. I was replying to your post about the difference between what Paul wrote about works of the Law and the works of faith that Christians are supposed to be doing. Your post was too long to include in the reply. If I accidentally attributed something to you that wasn't your post, my apologies.
 

FlyingDove

Senior Member
Dec 27, 2017
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Good post flyingdove. Love the name too.! :)

still waiting on my question. What command must I fulfill in order to eat from the tree of life?

back much later. Dinner and a movie with husband.
Hi stonesoffire,

I've never heard this question before.

My 1st thought: Love God with all my heart & my neighbor as myself.

My 2nd thought: Receive God's grace & confess my faith in Christ's finish redemptive work & believe God raised him from the dead.

So, I'm going with: Wash my Robe in the Blood of the Lamb.

Looking forward to your sharing of the correct answer. FD
 

Sagart

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May 7, 2017
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God's Gift Of Everlasting Life Thru Faith In Jesus Christ

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but """have everlasting life"""

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son """hath everlasting life"""

John 6:35 Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; """he that believeth on me shall never thirst"""

1 Peter 1:
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy """hath begotten us""" again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

4 To """an inheritance incorruptible""", and undefiled, and """that fadeth not away""", reserved in heaven for you,

5 Who are """kept by the power of God through faith""" unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that heareth my word & believeth on him that sent me, """hath everlasting life""" and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”

John 10:28 """I give unto them eternal life"""; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.”

Romans 8:33-39
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord
There is nothing, absolutely nothing more important to me that the truth. Therefore, when I see “Christians” chopping up the Bible into little pieces and gluing them together to suit the tickling of their ears, I am horrified!

MY favorite verse on the subject:

1 John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; """""that ye may know that ye have eternal life"""""
(NOTE: That you may """KNOW""" that you have eternal life)
1 John 5:13. Ταῦτα ἔγραψα ὑμῖν, ἵνα εἰδῆτε ὅτι ζωὴν ἔχετε αἰώνιον, τοῖς πιστεύουσιν εἰς τὸ ὄνομα τοῦ υἱοῦ τοῦ θεοῦ.

This verse was not written to us! It was written to an extremely confused local congregation of believers—believers who did not believe that Jesus had come in the flesh! The entire epistle was written to minister to the specific needs of this specific body of believers, including the need that they (who were currently believing [πιστεύουσιν—a Greek present participle]) had of knowing that they had eternal life.

Furthermore, throughout the New Testament, “eternal life” refers to the eternal life of Christ that those who are currently in Him share with Him. Moreover, upon our believing in Jesus for our salvation, Jesus does not handcuff us, hogtie us, and chain us to Himself! Neither does He steal from us our freedom to remain in Him, or to forsake him.