Was Jesus a victim of self aggrandizing suicide?

[GreatestIam]

Was Jesus a victim of self aggrandizing suicide?

http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/series/expedition-week/4290/Overview#tab-Videos/07451_00

My position is simple.
To offer or be a scapegoat for others who will not step up to their own responsibilities and consequences for their action is immoral and self aggrandizing. I see mythical Jesus as doing just that.
To accept the sacrifice of a scapegoat Jesus and to try to profit from his death is also immoral.

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Scripture indicates, Trinitarians aside, that God the Father sent his son to die for mankind to fulfill a need that God himself created. That of a blood sacrifice to forgive sin when he has the power to forgive sin without it.



As above so below.
For us to believe that God would plan for and send his son to die, we would have to think it normal and good for a father to bury his son. Any good man would reject such an example of good conduct as definitely not good, natural or moral. Any God the father, or earthly father, worth his title, would step up himself for such a task yet Bible God takes the cowardly route and sends his son. What a pathetic God. What pathetic followers he also has who would think that this is the way things should be.

Eze 18;20
The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Psa 49;7
None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him:

Do you recognize the immorality of believers using Jesus as a scapegoat and of them trying to profit from his murder?

If his death was a suicide, which is the way I see it, is it moral for believers to try to profit from his pathetic self aggrandizing sacrifice?

Regards
DL

 

[GreatestIam]

Please excuse the duplicate.
My first did not show the links somehow and I could not edit it.

Was Jesus a victim of self aggrandizing suicide?

http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/series/expedition-week/4290/Overview#tab-Videos/07451_00

My position is simple.
To offer or be a scapegoat for others who will not step up to their own responsibilities and consequences for their action is immoral and self aggrandizing. I see mythical Jesus as doing just that.
To accept the sacrifice of a scapegoat Jesus and to try to profit from his death is also immoral.

<A href="http://www.%3cobject%20width=/" 425? height="350">

Scripture indicates, Trinitarians aside, that God the Father sent his son to die for mankind to fulfill a need that God himself created. That of a blood sacrifice to forgive sin when he has the power to forgive sin without it.

YouTube - &#x202a;Nothing but the blood?&#x202c;&rlm;


As above so below.
For us to believe that God would plan for and send his son to die, we would have to think it normal and good for a father to bury his son. Any good man would reject such an example of good conduct as definitely not good, natural or moral. Any God the father, or earthly father, worth his title, would step up himself for such a task yet Bible God takes the cowardly route and sends his son. What a pathetic God. What pathetic followers he also has who would think that this is the way things should be.

Eze 18;20
The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Psa 49;7
None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him:

Do you recognize the immorality of believers using Jesus as a scapegoat and of them trying to profit from his murder?

If his death was a suicide, which is the way I see it, is it moral for believers to try to profit from his pathetic self aggrandizing sacrifice?

Regards
DL

 

[zone]

OH MY.
yes, the great COSMIC SUICIDE.

a Good Man, making Himself an example of self-denial and good morals.
put to death because He upset someone's apple cart.

sure thing.

you are very naturally offended by the SCANDAL OF THE CROSS, since you do not understand the BAD NEWS pronouncement already on YOUR HEAD.

stick around.
zone

AS ABOVE SO BELOW?
PULEEZE.

 

[GreatestIam]

Thanks for this. Not quite helpful.

I take no offence to what your delusion says is on my head.

Since you gave such little thought to the issue, let me see if I can get a reasoned answer from you on this following.
Try it without dogma if possible.

If you were God and set the rules for forgiveness, would you be stupid enough to make the condition that your son would need to die?

On earth as it is in heaven.

Here, man thinks it better to have sons outlive the fathers.
Why does God do the reverse and should we follow his un-natural example?

Regards
DL

 

[zone]

Thanks for this. Not quite helpful.

I take no offence to what your delusion says is on my head.

Since you gave such little thought to the issue, let me see if I can get a reasoned answer from you on this following.
Try it without dogma if possible.

If you were God and set the rules for forgiveness, would you be stupid enough to make the condition that your son would need to die?

On earth as it is in heaven.

Here, man thinks it better to have sons outlive the fathers.
Why does God do the reverse and should we follow his un-natural example?

Regards
DL

LOL!
why are you asking Christians this? can't you read?

can't stir up enough interest among your antichrist friends?
it gets a little boring when you all agree, doesn't it.

ironically often times the aetheist with the biggest axe to grind (and the loudest mouth) is actually the one being dragged to Calvary.

stick around bubba.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

LOL!
why are you asking Christians this? can't you read?

can't stir up enough interest among your antichrist friends?
it gets a little boring when you all agree, doesn't it.

ironically often times the aetheist with the biggest axe to grind (and the loudest mouth) is actually the one being dragged to Calvary.

stick around bubba.

They get funnier everytime. They don't have a clue what we believe either. Their ignorance is astounding.

I like this, "grow out of their immorality" Deosn't he understand a perfect God can not deal with ONE sin. Growing out of our immorality won't help. we are already guilty with no hope.

I agree, I think God is drawing him so he can understand truth..

 

[zone]

Thanks for this. Not quite helpful.

I take no offence to what your delusion says is on my head.

Since you gave such little thought to the issue, let me see if I can get a reasoned answer from you on this following.
Try it without dogma if possible.

If you were God and set the rules for forgiveness, would you be stupid enough to make the condition that your son would need to die?

On earth as it is in heaven.

Here, man thinks it better to have sons outlive the fathers.
Why does God do the reverse and should we follow his un-natural example?

Regards
DL

recommended reading:

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/25737-atheism-rooted-wicked-sinful-people-suppressing-god-because-their-wickedness.html << click

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/25853-atheism-isnt-clear-thinking-isnt-rational-isnt-logical-why.html << click

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/25475-atheistic-evolution-irrational-unreasonable-belief-relying-total-blind-faith.html << click

 

[zone]

I agree, I think God is drawing him so he can understand truth..

either that or so we can be more firmly rooted in the Truth

 

[eternally-gratefull]

either that or so we can be more firmly rooted in the Truth

So true! I think sometimes they don't understand they actually help us when we do this. As we see how silly we were before we came to Faith

 

[zone]

So true! I think sometimes they don't understand they actually help us when we do this. As we see how silly we were before we came to Faith

oh ain't it the painful truth?

 

[Hearer]

Thanks for this. Not quite helpful.

I take no offence to what your delusion says is on my head.

Since you gave such little thought to the issue, let me see if I can get a reasoned answer from you on this following.
Try it without dogma if possible.

If you were God and set the rules for forgiveness, would you be stupid enough to make the condition that your son would need to die?

On earth as it is in heaven.

Here, man thinks it better to have sons outlive the fathers.
Why does God do the reverse and should we follow his un-natural example?

Regards
DL

Blessings,
You are right that God does not think like humans. That does not make humans right, it makes God right, bcuz he understands things better than us.

Jesus Predicts His Death (and is reprimanded for doing so)

21 From then on Jesus began to tell his disciples plainly that it was necessary for him to go to Jerusalem, and that he would suffer many terrible things at the hands of the elders, the leading priests, and the teachers of religious law. He would be killed, but on the third day he would be raised from the dead.

22 But Peter took him aside and began to reprimand him for saying such things. “Heaven forbid, Lord,” he said. “This will never happen to you!” 23 Jesus turned to Peter and said, “Get away from me, Satan! You are a dangerous trap to me. You are seeing things merely from a human point of view, not from God’s.” ( Matthew 16 NLT)

 

[GreatestIam]

LOL!
why are you asking Christians this? can't you read?

can't stir up enough interest among your antichrist friends?
it gets a little boring when you all agree, doesn't it.

ironically often times the aetheist with the biggest axe to grind (and the loudest mouth) is actually the one being dragged to Calvary.

stick around bubba.

I kind of recognized that reason was beyond your scope but though I would try anyway.
Thanks for bobbing and weaving away from an honest answer.

BTW. I am not an atheist. I just have a more moral God than yours.
I would die for my children. Nice to see that you would send them in your stead and follow your pathetic God's example.

Regards
DL

 

[GreatestIam]

They get funnier everytime. They don't have a clue what we believe either. Their ignorance is astounding.

I like this, "grow out of their immorality" Deosn't he understand a perfect God can not deal with ONE sin. Growing out of our immorality won't help. we are already guilty with no hope.

I agree, I think God is drawing him so he can understand truth..

Not much faith in God I see.

When did he begin to make man and his other works less than perfect?

Deuteronomy 32:4
He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.


Matthew 7:18
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

If you had to chose for your son to die or yourself, who would die?
Will you follow your God to the moral low grounds?

Regards
DL

 

[Hearer]

I kind of recognized that reason was beyond your scope but though I would try anyway.
Thanks for bobbing and weaving away from an honest answer.

BTW. I am not an atheist. I just have a more moral God than yours.
I would die for my children. Nice to see that you would send them in your stead and follow your pathetic God's example.

Regards
DL

you cannot have a more moral God unless you are more moral than the rest of humanity. And so from you nickname we can deduce that you are projecting aggrandizement onto Jesus from out of your own dark depth

Humans deserve to die en masse for their sins against each other and the planet and they do not have to because:
1) They can renew their mind
2) they can renew their mind through Jesus who was able to send his Spirit to guide us when he left.

however because your god cannot see nor hear, you believe that Jesus too is just a myth and so you will not take anthing we say seriously.

 

[zone]

I kind of recognized that reason was beyond your scope but though I would try anyway.
Thanks for bobbing and weaving away from an honest answer.

BTW. I am not an atheist. I just have a more moral God than yours.
I would die for my children. Nice to see that you would send them in your stead and follow your pathetic God's example.

Regards
DL

you are currently an atheist and an antichrist.
but you needn't stay that way.

G.A.O.T.U. is a loser (cuz he isn't real...LOL!)

it wouldn't do you or your children any eternal good for you to die for them.

you think God will accept your sinful carcass as a substitute? so sorry.....you're not worthy.

Romans 5
Peace with God Through Faith
1 Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, wea have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. 2 Through him we have also obtained access by faithb into this grace in which we stand, and wec rejoiced in hope of the glory of God. 3 More than that, we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, 4 and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, 5 and hope does not put us to shame, because God&#8217;s love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us.

6 For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. 7 For one will scarcely die for a righteous person&#8212;though perhaps for a good person one would dare even to die&#8212; 8 but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God. 10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life. 11 More than that, we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.

 

[GreatestIam]

recommended reading:

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/25737-atheism-rooted-wicked-sinful-people-suppressing-god-because-their-wickedness.html << click

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/25853-atheism-isnt-clear-thinking-isnt-rational-isnt-logical-why.html << click

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/25475-atheistic-evolution-irrational-unreasonable-belief-relying-total-blind-faith.html << click

YouTube - &#x202a;Misquoting Jesus: Scribes Who Altered Scripture and Readers Who May Never Know&#x202c;&rlm;

We can thump and refer to other's thoughts all day and get nowhere.
Let me know if you want to justify your poor moral position with our words.
In that we might both learn something.

Regards
DL

 

[Abiding]

I kind of recognized that reason was beyond your scope but though I would try anyway.
Thanks for bobbing and weaving away from an honest answer.

BTW. I am not an atheist. I just have a more moral God than yours.
I would die for my children. Nice to see that you would send them in your stead and follow your pathetic God's example.

Regards
DL

Who is your god?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Not much faith in God I see.

When did he begin to make man and his other works less than perfect?

Deuteronomy 32:4
He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.


Matthew 7:18
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

If you had to chose for your son to die or yourself, who would die?
Will you follow your God to the moral low grounds?

Regards
DL

I have wonderful faith in God.

1. God created man perfect in every way. He did, however, give man free will (would you creat a living being with no free will, just made to bow to your every need?) It was man that turned on God. Not God who turned on man.

2. The son chose to die himself. He did not do it because he was coersed by God or anyone else. He freely chose out of his love (no greater love has any man than he die for those he loves) I would say he had a great love wouldn't you?

3. Moral low grounds? Are you perfect? Have you ever sinned? If you have. You followed your god (yourself) to moral low grounds.

then again, no one is perfect so I guess your answer would be yes.

 

[GreatestIam]

So true! I think sometimes they don't understand they actually help us when we do this. As we see how silly we were before we came to Faith

Yes and I see that you both hide behind your faith shield instead of facing the issue at hand.

Regards
DL

 

[Hearer]

Not much faith in God I see.

When did he begin to make man and his other works less than perfect?

Deuteronomy 32:4
He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.


Matthew 7:18
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

If you had to chose for your son to die or yourself, who would die?
Will you follow your God to the moral low grounds?

Regards
DL

God made us perfect. With perfect good will and us with perfect free will. So that's perfect. Adam was perfect. But there was someone (someone who I am reminded of in your avatar) who was sly and knew the scriptures well enough to use them and twist them just enough to trap Adam into stealing from the God's garden.

We know we are wrong as humans and that makes us better than Stan in the end because we are humble and accept that God knows better than either us or Satan.
Blessings.