Was Jesus a victim of self aggrandizing suicide?

[eternally-gratefull]

oh ain't it the painful truth?

Well for them it is. It brings JOY to my heart

 

[Hearer]

Yes and I see that you both hide behind your faith shield instead of facing the issue at hand.

Regards
DL

it is right and good to hide behind our faith shield. It is written so and it works. Blessings

 

[GreatestIam]

Blessings,
You are right that God does not think like humans. That does not make humans right, it makes God right, bcuz he understands things better than us.

Jesus Predicts His Death (and is reprimanded for doing so)

21 From then on Jesus began to tell his disciples plainly that it was necessary for him to go to Jerusalem, and that he would suffer many terrible things at the hands of the elders, the leading priests, and the teachers of religious law. He would be killed, but on the third day he would be raised from the dead.

22 But Peter took him aside and began to reprimand him for saying such things. “Heaven forbid, Lord,” he said. “This will never happen to you!” 23 Jesus turned to Peter and said, “Get away from me, Satan! You are a dangerous trap to me. You are seeing things merely from a human point of view, not from God’s.” ( Matthew 16 NLT)

If God is unfathomable, un-knowable and works in mysterious ways, how do you know he would not do the right thing, in human terms, and step up for the hard work himself instead of giving us his cowardly example of sending his son?

Would you step up or would your child die?

Regards
DL

 

[Hearer]

If God is unfathomable, un-knowable and works in mysterious ways, how do you know he would not do the right thing, in human terms, and step up for the hard wok himself instead of giving us his poor example of sending his son?

Would you step up or would your child die?

Regards
DL

God stepped up himself because Jesus IS God. Has always been God and died before the begiinnging of the world. He knew what was going to happen and stepped up to the mark to save us. So God himself came in the flesh to be a servant Read the letter to the Philippians Ch2

 

[zone]

it is right and good to hide behind our faith shield. It is written so and it works. Blessings

AMEN!.....

don't forget we have a helmet and A SWORD.

(OH HOW SHARP IT IS)

 

[Abiding]

If God is unfathomable, un-knowable and works in mysterious ways, how do you know he would not do the right thing, in human terms, and step up for the hard work himself instead of giving us his cowardly example of sending his son?

Would you step up or would your child die?

Regards
DL

Who did you say your god was?

 

[java]

Your statement means that you lack faith... many do...its okay though... He has a purpose for you anyway.
God Bless.

 

[GreatestIam]

you cannot have a more moral God unless you are more moral than the rest of humanity. And so from you nickname we can deduce that you are projecting aggrandizement onto Jesus from out of your own dark depth

Humans deserve to die en masse for their sins against each other and the planet and they do not have to because:
1) They can renew their mind
2) they can renew their mind through Jesus who was able to send his Spirit to guide us when he left.

however because your god cannot see nor hear, you believe that Jesus too is just a myth and so you will not take anthing we say seriously.

Wow. Branded and judged already. Thanks.

You might note that many of the markers for evil, I E, slavery and violent crimes are lower than they have ever been but go ahead and accentuate the evil that God creates over the good.

Humans may deserve much but Jesus does not deserve having his followers line up to profit from the murder or suicide of an innocent man.

I know it gives you such a good felling to think some God would die for your inflated ego but you might remember the words of Jesus himself and guide yourself away from your immoral profits at his death.

Matthew 10:38
And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

Regards
DL

 

[rainacorn]

Was Jesus a victim of self aggrandizing suicide?

http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/series/expedition-week/4290/Overview#tab-Videos/07451_00

My position is simple.
To offer or be a scapegoat for others who will not step up to their own responsibilities and consequences for their action is immoral and self aggrandizing. I see mythical Jesus as doing just that.
To accept the sacrifice of a scapegoat Jesus and to try to profit from his death is also immoral.

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Scripture indicates, Trinitarians aside, that God the Father sent his son to die for mankind to fulfill a need that God himself created. That of a blood sacrifice to forgive sin when he has the power to forgive sin without it.



As above so below.
For us to believe that God would plan for and send his son to die, we would have to think it normal and good for a father to bury his son. Any good man would reject such an example of good conduct as definitely not good, natural or moral. Any God the father, or earthly father, worth his title, would step up himself for such a task yet Bible God takes the cowardly route and sends his son. What a pathetic God. What pathetic followers he also has who would think that this is the way things should be.

Eze 18;20
The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Psa 49;7
None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him:

Do you recognize the immorality of believers using Jesus as a scapegoat and of them trying to profit from his murder?

If his death was a suicide, which is the way I see it, is it moral for believers to try to profit from his pathetic self aggrandizing sacrifice?

Regards
DL

 

[GreatestIam]

you are currently an atheist and an antichrist.
but you needn't stay that way.

G.A.O.T.U. is a loser (cuz he isn't real...LOL!)

it wouldn't do you or your children any eternal good for you to die for them.

you think God will accept your sinful carcass as a substitute? so sorry.....you're not worthy.

Romans 5
Peace with God Through Faith
1 Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, wea have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. 2 Through him we have also obtained access by faithb into this grace in which we stand, and wec rejoiced in hope of the glory of God. 3 More than that, we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, 4 and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, 5 and hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us.

6 For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. 7 For one will scarcely die for a righteous person—though perhaps for a good person one would dare even to die— 8 but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God. 10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life. 11 More than that, we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.

You are right. God would not accept me as a substitute and scripture says that he would not accept anyone. Not even his son.

If I thought you cared for this truth then I would thump it but if you think it is ok to punish the innocent while letting the perpetrators off the hook, I can see why you think so lowly of yourself.

Regards
DL

 

[zone]

Wow. Branded and judged already. Thanks.

Regards
DL

ya bud.
you are in fact judged already (hate ta break it to ya).

s'up to you what you do with the Truth.
it's already Finished.

turn this ladder upside down cuz that's where its headed....all that hard work and pietism and morality....straight into eternal flames (looks like Light now tho don't it?)

 

[Hearer]

Wow. Branded and judged already. Thanks.

You might note that many of the markers for evil, I E, slavery and violent crimes are lower than they have ever been but go ahead and accentuate the evil that God creates over the good.

Humans may deserve much but Jesus does not deserve having his followers line up to profit from the murder or suicide of an innocent man.

I know it gives you such a good felling to think some God would die for your inflated ego but you might remember the words of Jesus himself and guide yourself away from your immoral profits at his death.

Matthew 10:38
And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

Regards
DL

well to tell you the truth we benefit a great deal from Jesus. We eat his flesh even. And drink his blood. And he is pleased that we appreciate the bitterness of his death and benefit from it. He dies as a servant for us and if we do not take advantage and renew our minds it is great shame.

 

[zone]

You are right. God would not accept me as a substitute and scripture says that he would not accept anyone. Not even his son.

If I thought you cared for this truth then I would thump it but if you think it is ok to punish the innocent while letting the perpetrators off the hook, I can see why you think so lowly of yourself.

Regards
DL

go ahead....fill your boots man.
tell us all about your god.

 

[GreatestIam]

Who is your god?

I am here to compare the morality of your God and mine.
Names are not required but my closest label would be Gnostic Christian.

Regards
DL

 

[java]

You lack faith....many do...its alright he still has a purpose for you...and you have no choice in the matter...
God bless!!

 

[zone]

I am here to compare the morality of your God and mine.
Names are not required but my closest label would be Gnostic < SNIP >
Regards
DL

there. that's better.

 

[zone]

......

recommended reading:

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/25737-atheism-rooted-wicked-sinful-people-suppressing-god-because-their-wickedness.html << click

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/25853-atheism-isnt-clear-thinking-isnt-rational-isnt-logical-why.html << click

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/25475-atheistic-evolution-irrational-unreasonable-belief-relying-total-blind-faith.html << click

 

[GreatestIam]

I have wonderful faith in God.

1. God created man perfect in every way. He did, however, give man free will (would you creat a living being with no free will, just made to bow to your every need?) It was man that turned on God. Not God who turned on man.

Can a perfect Adam with free will do the imperfect thing. Not according to scripture unless you want to think that your perfect God can also do the imperfect.
Perhaps Sodom and the genocide of Noah's day are examples of this. Yes?

Can you recall what happened the very first time man, via Adam and Eve, did their will and not God's?
Was that really free will?

What happened when we used this great free will you speak of?

2. The son chose to die himself. He did not do it because he was coersed by God or anyone else. He freely chose out of his love (no greater love has any man than he die for those he loves) I would say he had a great love wouldn't you?

Jesus said----father who sent me.

3. Moral low grounds? Are you perfect? Have you ever sinned? If you have. You followed your god (yourself) to moral low grounds.

Did God create your nature? Can you fight your nature?
Did he create a sinning nature for you to follow since none can fight their natures and can only follow them.

then again, no one is perfect so I guess your answer would be yes.

If by perfect you mean evolving perfection, then yes.

Candide
"It is demonstrable that things cannot be otherwise than as they are; for as all things have been created for some end, they must necessarily be created for the best end.”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPClzIsYxvA

Is the quote above truth or a lie?

Regards
DL

 

[eternally-gratefull]

well to tell you the truth we benefit a great deal from Jesus. We eat his flesh even. And drink his blood. And he is pleased that we appreciate the bitterness of his death and benefit from it. He dies as a servant for us and if we do not take advantage and renew our minds it is great shame.

Things like this do not help We do nothing of the sort.The word he has given us we have hidden in our hearts. This is what we feed on. And this is what gives us great joy.

 

[GreatestIam]

God made us perfect. With perfect good will and us with perfect free will. So that's perfect. Adam was perfect. But there was someone (someone who I am reminded of in your avatar) who was sly and knew the scriptures well enough to use them and twist them just enough to trap Adam into stealing from the God's garden.

We know we are wrong as humans and that makes us better than Stan in the end because we are humble and accept that God knows better than either us or Satan.
Blessings.

A & E became as Gods in Eden.

Is emulating God not what the whole bible preaches and urges us to do?

Who told A & E that their eyes would be opened and they would develop a moral sense by eating of the tree of knowledge.

That is it's purpose and yet God did not inform us and Satan did. Hmm.

Is man a better man with a moral sense or without it?

Regards
DL