Was the crucifixion that Jesus endured the worst possible suffering a human could experience?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

VickyK

Active member
Jan 15, 2021
363
55
28
That’s right no human is sinless...so something horrible happened to her..but she still needs to be saved for her sins which are just as horrible to God. All sin..which is why there is a lake of fire where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth...sin is that bad.

What do you think she’s experiencing now..the lake of fire? There is no one there. That doesn’t happen until after the millennium.
So she's not in Hell? Where is she?
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
5,939
2,773
113
She was raped and tortured repeatedly for 44 days. Of course she died. She did not accept Christ. She suffered on Earth, and will suffer eternally now.
Had she heard of Jesus or the law of Moses? Scripture says for those who have never heard are judged by a different standard.
 

Lisamn

Active member
Dec 29, 2020
795
220
43
So she's not in Hell? Where is she?
Daniel‬ ‭12:2‬ ‭
Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt.​
‭‭
 

VickyK

Active member
Jan 15, 2021
363
55
28
Had she heard of Jesus or the law of Moses? Scripture says for those who have never heard are judged by a different standard.
Most likely, Christianity exists in Japan and she was highly academic.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
5,939
2,773
113
Most likely, Christianity exists in Japan and she was highly academic.
It is sad the route her life took. That is why is very important people do not delay once hearing God. This means she was without excuse on a spiritual spectrum.
 

VickyK

Active member
Jan 15, 2021
363
55
28
It is sad the route her life took. That is why is very important people do not delay once hearing God. This means she was without excuse on a spiritual spectrum.
Yup. If she thought the rape, murder and torture was bad...well it hasn't gotten any better for her.
 

seoulsearch

OutWrite Trouble
May 23, 2009
12,704
2,974
113
Meaning, was it the ultimate suffering that no other human would ever possibly compare to have experienced?
Hi Vicky,

In response to this question and after reading the horrific case of the young Japanese woman that was posted, I couldn't help but think of another terrifying story of rape, torture, and murder -- right in the Bible.

I don't know if you've ever read Judges 19 -- "A Levite and His Concubine."

I apologize if you are familiar with all of this, but the Levites were specially set apart to be the priests and representatives of God Himself to His people. And in this story, a Levite travels to a city where a stranger offers him shelter. In the evening, all the men from the town demand surround his house and demand that this visitor be brought out to them for their own purposes.

Instead, the Levite himself shoved his concubine out the door and said, "Here, take her instead." Judges 19:25-28 says that her abusers tortured her throughout the night, then finally let her go at daybreak. She was somehow able to make her way back to the house, "falling with her hands on the threshold." In the morning, the Levite saw her and coldly said, "Get up and let us be going." And the Bible says, "But. there. was. no. answer."

I was a young teen when I first read this, and it chilled me to the bone. I remember being troubled about it for a very, very long time, and honestly, it still bothers me today. I could not believe that God would allow something like this to happen, especially from one of His own priests.

Now I realize that one night is no comparison to the 40+ that the young Japanese woman in the link you provided suffered, but my point is that God understands, and has seen the depth of human suffering.

In fact, when David had to choose a punishment directly from God, and God sent a destroying angel after David made his choice, it got to a point where even God Himself couldn't take watching this happen any longer and finally told the angel, "It is enough; now restrain your hand." (1 Chronicles 21:7-17.)

I don't know why God allows some to suffer so much. I don't know why He sometimes saves and sometimes remains silent. But for some reason, He allows what He chooses to allow, and He stops what He chooses to stop. I'm not saying that as a human being, I am particularly happy with that, but I know as His follower, I have to accept His sovereign choices.

I grew up in Christian schools and circles all my life, and I have heard both students and adults ask the same question you are asking. I even know one woman who told me she continually brought it before the Lord that she felt Jesus' suffering on the cross was extremely short-lived compared to the many years of her own personal suffering.

One thing that my school teachers and pastors told us that has always stuck with me is that we, as humans, can't fully understand, but must remember that Jesus was not only going through physical torture and death, but also carrying the punishment for the spiritual weight of the world -- the consequence of each and every sin, for every human being, past, present, and future -- and we will never know what that was like for Him.

I'm sure it's a torturous pain that only God knows the measure of, and that, no matter how much we suffer as humans, we have no way of truly understanding, even though what some people bear is unbearable for us to even think about.

Have you ever felt a spiritual burden for a friend, loved one, or even someone you don't even know? I can think of one time in particular when I felt a burden for a friend, and I cried for days (and I'm not normally a crier.) They were in a situation where they were making a terrible choice that was not going to end well. But they had their mind made up, and all I could do was to pray and pour my heart out to God. I was absolutely miserable for at least 3 days. I am not trying to say at all that this can be compared to other's suffering, let alone to Jesus, but I'm just saying, spiritual burdens can be just as, and sometimes even more painful than physical torture.

I think I can empathize with the question you're trying to ask, Vicky. I know I've tried to ask God a similar things many times in the past. But I think back to the terrible pain I felt for that friend, and then try to imagine how Jesus must have felt when carrying that pain for every person and ever sin that was ever committed, along with the physical and emotional torture of being publically declared a criminal and suffering the most brutal form of punishment the world at that time had to offer.

Whatever the amount or degree that He suffered was, it was enough for God to accept it as the sacrifice that would save the entire world.

I don't have the answer to your question though, and I'm sorry.

Do you ever bring it directly to God? And what does He say to you? We have no true way of knowing what it was really like for Jesus, but your heart is seeking a better grasp of both Him and His ways. Iff you bring it to Him, I know He is faithful in walking with us, even though we might not fully understand.

Keep seeking, and don't give up. I have the same questions I've been asking God all my life, and I may never have the answers, but I know to keep on seeking. (Matthew 7:7-12)

Blessings to you, Vicky, and welcome to the forum. :)
 
May 22, 2020
164
22
18
I don't think anyone would disagree it was torturous, yet, as the examples provided by myself and others argue, humans may have experienced ordeals even worse than crucifixion.
Don't allow length of torture distort comparative thoughts on depth of torture.
I think the point of the question of this thread needs explanation.
 

VickyK

Active member
Jan 15, 2021
363
55
28
Hi Vicky,

In response to this question and after reading the horrific case of the young Japanese woman that was posted, I couldn't help but think of another terrifying story of rape, torture, and murder -- right in the Bible.

I don't know if you've ever read Judges 19 -- "A Levite and His Concubine."

I apologize if you are familiar with all of this, but the Levites were specially set apart to be the priests and representatives of God Himself to His people. And in this story, a Levite travels to a city where a stranger offers him shelter. In the evening, all the men from the town demand surround his house and demand that this visitor be brought out to them for their own purposes.

Instead, the Levite himself shoved his concubine out the door and said, "Here, take her instead." Judges 19:25-28 says that her abusers tortured her throughout the night, then finally let her go at daybreak. She was somehow able to make her way back to the house, "falling with her hands on the threshold." In the morning, the Levite saw her and coldly said, "Get up and let us be going." And the Bible says, "But. there. was. no. answer."

I was a young teen when I first read this, and it chilled me to the bone. I remember being troubled about it for a very, very long time, and honestly, it still bothers me today. I could not believe that God would allow something like this to happen, especially from one of His own priests.

Now I realize that one night is no comparison to the 40+ that the young Japanese woman in the link you provided suffered, but my point is that God understands, and has seen the depth of human suffering.

In fact, when David had to choose a punishment directly from God, and God sent a destroying angel after David made his choice, it got to a point where even God Himself couldn't take watching this happen any longer and finally told the angel, "It is enough; now restrain your hand." (1 Chronicles 21:7-17.)

I don't know why God allows some to suffer so much. I don't know why He sometimes saves and sometimes remains silent. But for some reason, He allows what He chooses to allow, and He stops what He chooses to stop. I'm not saying that as a human being, I am particularly happy with that, but I know as His follower, I have to accept His sovereign choices.

I grew up in Christian schools and circles all my life, and I have heard both students and adults ask the same question you are asking. I even know one woman who told me she continually brought it before the Lord that she felt Jesus' suffering on the cross was extremely short-lived compared to the many years of her own personal suffering.

One thing that my school teachers and pastors told us that has always stuck with me is that we, as humans, can't fully understand, but must remember that Jesus was not only going through physical torture and death, but also carrying the punishment for the spiritual weight of the world -- the consequence of each and every sin, for every human being, past, present, and future -- and we will never know what that was like for Him.

I'm sure it's a torturous pain that only God knows the measure of, and that, no matter how much we suffer as humans, we have no way of truly understanding, even though what some people bear is unbearable for us to even think about.

Have you ever felt a spiritual burden for a friend, loved one, or even someone you don't even know? I can think of one time in particular when I felt a burden for a friend, and I cried for days (and I'm not normally a crier.) They were in a situation where they were making a terrible choice that was not going to end well. But they had their mind made up, and all I could do was to pray and pour my heart out to God. I was absolutely miserable for at least 3 days. I am not trying to say at all that this can be compared to other's suffering, let alone to Jesus, but I'm just saying, spiritual burdens can be just as, and sometimes even more painful than physical torture.

I think I can empathize with the question you're trying to ask, Vicky. I know I've tried to ask God a similar things many times in the past. But I think back to the terrible pain I felt for that friend, and then try to imagine how Jesus must have felt when carrying that pain for every person and ever sin that was ever committed, along with the physical and emotional torture of being publically declared a criminal and suffering the most brutal form of punishment the world at that time had to offer.

Whatever the amount or degree that He suffered was, it was enough for God to accept it as the sacrifice that would save the entire world.

I don't have the answer to your question though, and I'm sorry.

Do you ever bring it directly to God? And what does He say to you? We have no true way of knowing what it was really like for Jesus, but your heart is seeking a better grasp of both Him and His ways. Iff you bring it to Him, I know He is faithful in walking with us, even though we might not fully understand.

Keep seeking, and don't give up. I have the same questions I've been asking God all my life, and I may never have the answers, but I know to keep on seeking. (Matthew 7:7-12)

Blessings to you, Vicky, and welcome to the forum. :)
Thank you for the post. I don't understand what it has to do with my question? As for the Japanese woman, she is in Hell now, suffering torture far beyond what she experienced on Earth.
 

Journeyman

Well-known member
Jan 10, 2019
1,357
588
113
Theologians have turned God into a monster. I hope and pray people may see that God neither poured his wrath on his Son, or that he permits eternal torment.
 

VickyK

Active member
Jan 15, 2021
363
55
28
Theologians have turned God into a monster. I hope and pray people may see that God neither poured his wrath on his Son, or that he permits eternal torment.
God doesn't permit eternal torment?
 

seoulsearch

OutWrite Trouble
May 23, 2009
12,704
2,974
113
Thank you for the post. I don't understand what it has to do with my question? As for the Japanese woman, she is in Hell now, suffering torture far beyond what she experienced on Earth.
Hi Vicky,

My point was that we have no way of knowing if Jesus' suffering was the worst ever possible (your original question in the thread,) but that we do know that God has a complete understanding of what suffering is and how bad it gets, so whatever degree of it that Jesus went through (whether it was the absolute worst ever, or not) is something only He can know.

I used the story in Judges simply because of its many parallels to the story of the Japanese woman you had shared.

Thank you for taking the time to read my post. :)
 
May 22, 2020
164
22
18
Theologians have turned God into a monster. I hope and pray people may see that God neither poured his wrath on his Son, or that he permits eternal torment.
What?
Your post needs explanation.
 

VickyK

Active member
Jan 15, 2021
363
55
28
Hi Vicky,

My point was that we have no way of knowing if Jesus' suffering was the worst ever possible (your original question in the thread,) but that we do know that God has a complete understanding of what suffering is and how bad it gets, so whatever degree of it that Jesus went through (whether it was the absolute worst ever, or not) is something only He can know.

I used the story in Judges simply because of its many parallels to the story of the Japanese woman you had shared.

Thank you for taking the time to read my post. :)
I understand. Thank you for sharing. Bear in mind Jehovah flooded the world and destroyed entire cities, would he lose sleep over a slave woman being raped and tortured?
 

seoulsearch

OutWrite Trouble
May 23, 2009
12,704
2,974
113
I understand. Thank you for sharing. Bear in mind Jehovah flooded the world and destroyed entire cities, would he lose sleep over a slave woman being raped and tortured?
I personally believe He would. The Bible says He knows how many hairs we each have on our head, collects all of our tears in a bottle, and is concerned for even the sparrows of His creation, and that we are worth much more to Him than any sparrow.

But I certainly understand what you are saying, as I've felt many times and still struggle with thinking God has left me behind, or is ignoring my plight.
 

VickyK

Active member
Jan 15, 2021
363
55
28
I personally believe He would. The Bible says He knows how many hairs we each have on our head, collects all of our tears in a bottle, and is concerned for even the sparrows of His creation, and that we are worth much more to Him than any sparrow.

But I certainly understand what you are saying, as I've felt many times and still struggle with thinking God has left me behind, or is ignoring my plight.
Why should your 'plight' concern him? Does he exist to serve us?
 

seoulsearch

OutWrite Trouble
May 23, 2009
12,704
2,974
113
Why should your 'plight' concern him? Does he exist to serve us?
Because He tells us that He cares about our plights.

"Call upon Me in the day of trouble, I will deliver you, and you will honor Me." Psalm 5:15

I don't want to derail your thread any further and I have to go for the evening.

It was nice meeting you and thank you for taking the time to read my posts. 🙂
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
6,464
1,803
113
You think it would be less painful to be raped over 400 times, beaten, starved, hung from the ceiling and used as a "punching bag", have barbells dropped onto your stomach, forced to eat live cockroaches and drink your own urine, forced to masturbate in front of them, and forced to dance and sing to songs while being beaten? Have inserted many objects into your rectum and anus (vagina also if you were female), including a lit light bulb and fireworks?

They burned her vagina and clitoris with cigarettes and lighters, and her eyelids with hot wax. They also tore off her left nipple with pliers and pierced her breasts with sewing needles. Furuta was said to slip into unconsciousness because of the repeated assaults, leading them to dunk her head into a bucket of water each time to continue the torture.When her body was found, Oronamin C bottles had been inserted into her anus, her face was unrecognizable, and she had become pregnant from the repeated rapes. This was over the course of 44 days.
this is graphic and I think there really is no point. many have already acknowledged the terrible suffering of this woman.

That being said What Christ had gone through he did for others. The fact that this woman had such wickedness done to her No women should have to endure. But to demand in some kind of perverse way Jesus did not suffer more greatly than this women accomplished what? There is a trollish kind of post and confrontational too.
 

Blade

Active member
Nov 19, 2019
451
186
43
Meaning, was it the ultimate suffering that no other human would ever possibly compare to have experienced?
Hi VickyK! Yes and no. Well Christ took all on Himself. The punishment for all. I think some believe Christ came died went back as if nothing happened. This cost God something. Christ knew everyone .. had all on His heart and paid it all. Had to be fully man yet only a GOD could do this. Its not just one death and .. we'll just apply that to all. No each one.. He felt paid for. No one loves us as much as He